Even the RW hacks and Freepers wont be able to spin..

[trekbiker]

the so-called Iraqi "Democratic" constitution if it doesn't specifically mandate a separation of church and state. Without this separation and religious freedom Iraq is just another Islamic theocracy and the whole venture is a tragic waste. I'm preaching to the choir here at DU but the important point is that even the extreme "Cognitive Dissonance" infecting the rabid RW and Freeperland wont be able to get past this point. They will try to spin it thru Rush and Hannity, etc., but I think if the final result is an Islamic theocracy it will be a fatal wedge issue with these bastards.. it will cause a division they will not be able to recover from. Even the hardcore 30%'ers could turn on each other over this.

just my 2 cents..

[HEyHEY]

1. Good luck getting that in the Middle East

[bpilgrim]

3. we all knew that but the freakers

and that is where many of them will say good bye to the neoCONs.

TIPPING POINT

peace

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

10. Turkey? (nt)

[darkism]

2. "Our sons and daughters died to create another Taliban."

Scream it loud and scream it often.

[0rganism]

4. You're operating under a mistaken assumption...

...that the RW hacks and freepers consider separation of church and state to be essential to democracy. Quite the contrary: they'll be pleased as punch to welcome theocracy wherever it emerges, whether in Iraq or the USA. Anything that increases the chances of a devastating war in the Middle East to set off the apocalypse is right up their alley.

[jsamuel]

5. correct, however they see separation of Islam and state more important

[0rganism]

7. Islamic states are great freeper fodder

Look at it from the freepish perspective for a minute. There's nothing they like more than having an "enemy" to struggle against, and currently Islam even beats that old standby Communism for sheer drama value. Defunding every social program available in favor of military spending while promoting corporate rights is the essence of their ideology. So while its quite possible to maintain stable international relations with our Islamic state buddies (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan) in the name of oil imports, it's always nice to have that "Islamic extremist" excuse lying around for a potential invasion if they get "uppity" (e.g. Iran). It fits together quite nicely for the neo-cons.

And for the domestic religious extremists, nothing gets their blood pumping like a chance to validate Revelations with a little Israeli nukular action.

It may seem like a wedge issue, but it's really win-win for the freeptards.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. 'Potential Invasion'?? We invaded to CREATE that country! Huh?

[0rganism]

17. And by gosh we can do it again!

and again, and again, as often as our Military-Industrial-Media complex needs to complete the important task of looting the treasury -- it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Heck, we're just reworking what the Brits did back in 1932.

[stanwyck]

20. Plus, the new Islamic Iraq will be a real fundraiser

for our bloated military industrial complex. More jets! More subs! More Halliburton!
Otherwise....we'll be attacked! Invaded!
We're creating an enemy to serve as a marketing tool for our corporate warmongers. And our corporate president.
Maybe some of the smarter freepers will wake up. When they still don't have healthcare. They still are paying exorbitant prices for gas. Their job has been outsourced. Again. The middle-class continues to shrink. And America starts resembling a fuedal system of corporate warlords and serfs.

[rodeodance]

6. and so many others will just believe--good they got a constitution (like

us). sad.

[0rganism]

19. "Saddam Hussein was a baaaaad man."

And that's really all they have to say to justify everything that's happened so far.

[trekbiker]

11. my assumption is that the freeps associate terrorism and...

the terrorists with Islamic fundamentalism. I'm sure a lot of them are all for church and state co-mingling just so long as its the Christian church and state doing it. But I dont think that thinking will extend to the Islamic faith. They tolerate Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because they are our "friends". But Iran?? or this new Iraq?? if we ended up creating another Iran and even worse, one that Al Qaida can thrive in due to a weak central govt and constant ethnic squabling.... well, thats going to be a little hard to square, even for the freeper mindset.

[0rganism]

18. They'll LOVE it -- an opportunity to (re)invade a heathen country or two

You and I see the obvious contradiction inherent in their ideology. But when have the freeps ever had a problem with cognitive dissonance?

I liked how that guy who wrote the Rolling Stone article about infiltrating the 2004 Republican campaign in Florida put it:

"But here's the twist. They (Republicans) are not looking for facts with which to defeat opponents. They are looking for facts that ensure them an ever-expanding roster of opponents. They can be correct facts, incorrect facts, irrelevant facts, it doesn't matter. The point is not to win the argument, the point is to make sure the argument never stops. Permanent war isn't a policy imposed from above; it's an emotional imperative that rises from the bottom. In a way, it actually helps if the fact is dubious or untrue (like the Swift-boat business), because that guarantees an argument. You're arguing the particulars, where you're right, while they're arguing the underlying generalities, where they are.

Once you grasp this fact, you're a long way to understanding what the Hannitys and Limbaughs figured out long ago: These people will swallow anything you feed them, so long as it leaves them with a demon to wrestle with in their dreams."

So in that spirit, they'll have reasons to be happy with whatever comes out of Iraq. If it's a liberal democracy in the Jeffersonian sense, they'll clamor endlessly about the great moral triumphs of W. But, as is more likely, if and when a theocratic "democracy" emerges in Iraq they'll be even happier because not only did W provide for a nominally democratic regime in Iraq, but they're ideologically opposed to it, which reaffirms their overall distrust and hatred for Islam, and gives the USA an excuse to re-establish yet another "democracy" further down the road.

[trekbiker]

21. you are right.. but is it 50% of the country that is hopelessly

delusional?? or 30%??

I'm praying it's closer to 30%.

[0rganism]

22. depends on how you figure "hopelessly"

I mean, if 30% of the country is able to "create a reality" from their delusions and then enforce that "reality" on everyone else in the country and maybe a few million people clear on the other side of the planet, what do we gain by the distinction?

I'll say this much for the hopelessly delusional 30%: they vote early and often, and have attained considerable power as a result.

[Richard Steele]

9. Of COURSE they can spin it! Here's an easy one:

"The Iraquis were planning
a US-style democracy at first,
but the radical Islamic factions
became emboldened when the
US anti-war movement weakened America's resolve."

See how easy that was?
Take out some of the bigger words,
so freepers can understand it,
and BINGO:

It's all CINDY'S fault.

[trekbiker]

13. you may be right... the hardcore 30% brownshirters will

buy any bullshit. but maybe that 10-20% more moderate republican faction can be turned..

wishfull thinking maybe..

[seabeyond]

12. bush came out to say today, woman will have their rights

when did that happen, how. prove it. i dont believe it. he knows this is a bad one. is he flat out lying in our face. anyone have the answer how he can say straight face that women will have their rights in tact with this constitution

[Raksha]

15. You know why he can say it? Because he's a cokehead!

>>...anyone have the answer how he can say straight face that women will have their rights in tact with this constitution.<<

I once had the very painful (but educational) experience of renting a room in my house to a crackhead. Of course I was a new widow, in desperate financial straits, and didn't realize he was a crackhead until he'd been living in my house for several months. I have since become a lot more streetwise--the hard way.

It's absolutely terrifying to see how Bush acts just like my former tenant. He lies ALL the time, about anything and everything. He lies when the truth would sound better. He lies even when he knows nobody believes him. Lying has become a kind of conditioned reflex with him, because he thinks it will protect him.

So what does it mean when he says women will have their rights intact under an Islamic government? Nothing. He knows good and damn well nobody believes him. He is simply stalling for time by creating confusion, and that's ALL he's doing! The lie is like sand in the public's eyes--it creates just a few minutes of doubt and confusion while you're trying to figure out what the hell he's talking about. And those few minutes are JUST enough time for him to get out the door and make his escape. That's the M.O. my ex-tenant used when I would ask him what happened to the rent money.

[seabeyond]

16. JUST enough time for him to get out the door and make his escape

exactly. good point. i have a brother like bush. an alcoholic. hte bush kind of alcoholic. i agree with your post. right on

on edit: i just didnt know if something new happened today i hadnt heard about

[Beaverhausen]

23. He wants to take women's rights away HERE

Why does he hate women so?

[seabeyond]

25. look at his mama. all mamas know what mamas like that do

to sons. and throw in a father that uses boys as target practice .....there you go

[Stirk]

14. Oh, they can spin it. They could spin the crucifixtion of Jesus.

Like so...

"This so-called 'Christ' was a known leader in the Jewish insurgency. He was their number 2 guy. This strong show of Roman resolve will have a calming effect on the area. The vast majority of Jews are pro-Roman- it's only a very small minority of zealots that are causing the trouble."

[LSU_Subversive]

24. of course they will. don't underestimate the power of hypocrisy and

willful ignorance. even cognitive dissonance can't trump it. in fact, cognitive dissonance is what exacerbates the problem in the first place.