Another way to look at homelessness

[me b zola]

Because my skin was made to crawl by another thread about homelessness, I feel it necessary to begin this thread.

I know a woman, who as a single mother, worked herself into homelessness. She had no support group, no family to back her up. She literally worked 80-100 hours per week. eventually that was not enough and she became homeless.

She never panhandled. She never asked a motherfucker for a GD thing. For a short while she survived on the disease infested shelters, and the "free" meals were always in exchange for a prayer.

She began working again, but by doing that, all of the "free" meals were no longer available to her, she was working during those hours.
She saved every penny that she could, but ultimately, it was not until a family member decided to act like a human-fucking-being and take her in that she was truly able to have shelter.

That family member, in turn, always prayed upon her for her paycheck.
She payed half of their rent while sleeping on the sofa (constantly being brow-beat to not show any sign that she existed), but the family member would constantly say "I don't have my share of the rent, could you put more up".



Fuck every one of you who believe that homelessness is a choice.

Fuck every one of you who believe that homelessness is an easy living.

[Suich]

1. I always try to give at least a couple of bucks to panhandlers.

More if it's a woman, generally. I don't know if it's a scam or not but I do know, I can't just walk past them like they don't exist.

[me b zola]

3. That is kind

But not all homeless people panhandle. The unseen homeless people are the ones who look like you and me. They don't ask anyone for anything.


My heart breaks to even think about this. :cry:

[whatever4]

27. Me too

One time I gave a guy five bucks, and my husband said, you know he's only going to spend that on wine or beer. I said, well, isn't that what we're doing, out for the evening? There's nothing wrong with some beer or wine...as long as there's food too. My husband didn't hear me when I handed the man the money, I said, quietly, "food too, okay" He nodded his head, and I thought, well, instead of sounding caring, I probably sounded like a judgmental jerk. But I hoped he realized that the money was his do to as he pleased, and more power to him. I was happy to be able to give something to someone.

But the mom in me wants food to be part of it. Folks get so thin, so very thin, in those long coats and skinny ankles in old shoes. Too thin to be healthy, too thin to not look like they're starving. Too thin in our obese America.

It's not everyone that has the luxury to be obese.

[Ahpook]

72. The "they" and the "panhandler" quote is troubling.

Make sure you do these things for genuine reasons.

It is easy to throw a buck in a hat and shuffle on down the street as if you changed something.

[SeattleGirl]

2. Take a breath me b

I posted several times on that link, and I will tell you that based on my work with the homeless, there ARE some who do choose that, because they don't or can't handle the system. This is not the same as saying they are bums, or worthless, or whatever. The people who are homeless are just as varied as those with kith and kin. So, yes, sometimes homelessness IS a choice, but that applies, in my experience, with folks who have been here for awhile, but I also believe, again based on my experience working with this population, that it is a very small percentage that makes this choice. Please read (or re-read) my posts on the other thread, and I think you will see that not everyone believes the homeless are there by choice, or are bums, or drug addicted, or whatever, and that there are those of us who are or have been involved in some way in helping these people get back on their feet. Speaking for myself, I do not in any way look down upon the homeless or think less of them than I do anyone with a permanent roof over their heads. As to your friend, I have also known people like her, and to the scum who prey upon people like that, I have no sympathy. And I have nothing but admiration for anyone who works to get themselves into a better place, regardless of how they do it, either totally by themselves, or with the various and sundry types of help that is out there. Here's hoping the best for your friend. And peace to you.

:hug:

[me b zola]

4. .

:hug:

[SeattleGirl]

6. Awwww

thanks me b! Back at you 10 fold.

[me b zola]

7. Thanks

It just slays me. Panhandling is not necessarily attached to homelessness.

I live here in Portland. Some people make a mighty fine living off of panhandling. IT SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH HOMELESSNESS.

I was a young adult when Reagan began his war on the homeless. I know what he did to vets who need assistance. I know what he did to people with mental disabilities who need assistance. Where are all of those frickin faith based groups who are raking in the dough to provide social services? That's right. They are busy terrorizing GLBTs by trying to make them straight.

With the economic policies that began with Reagan, *normal* people by record numbers have been becoming homeless. It will only increase under shrub. It just breaks my heart to hear progressives (many of whom I greatly respect) speaking about the homeless as though they are all those who "chose" to be homeless. I am just so sad.

[SeattleGirl]

15. I agree with you

As I said, there are a very small percentage of homeless people who choose to be homeless (but may I add, I do not know their state of mind when they make the choice),but I absolutely agree that Reagan certainly helped fuel the homeless population. That, coupled with the rather wrongheaded work of mental health advocates to "liberate" those who were confined to mental health facilities, drastically increased the homeless population. Least anyone think I am bashing the mentally ill, I'm not. I was a psych major in college, and one of the things we studied was the release of many people from mental health facilities that was not accompanied by appropriate outpatient care. At one point, I lived a block from the main Seattle Mental Health Care facility, and also a block from a mental health housing facility. I was not scared of this population, but I was angry that they were let out to "preserve their rights" but no one did enough to ensure that they got the meds they needed to maintain their balance, or if they did get the meds, no one was there to supervise them. Essentially, they were thrown to the wolves, and were far more vulnerable than the mentally healthy to the vagraties of life on the street. I absolutely believe in an individual's rights, and I also believe that along with rights come responsibilities. But, if one is mentally ill or affected by drug and/or alcohol addiction or some other problem, it is very difficult to be responsible. Thus, I believe that if someone is not capable of being responsible, those of us advocating for their rights must also take some responsibility in working to help them.

Bottom Line: It does not matter how someone ended up homeless, whether it was because they lost their job, they are mentally ill, drug or alchohol addicted, whatever -- what matters to me is that these are human beings, and while I do what I can to support these people and those who help in caring for them, right now it feels like an uphill battle thanks in no part lately to * and his administration. To be fair though, this problem started long ago. I am very fortunate in that I have friends and family who would take me and my husband in if something happened to render us otherwise homeless, and so I feel that it is also my responsibility to help those who do not have this resourse (a lesson well learned from my parents).

[Trevelyan]

38. The State loved not having to pay anything to keep these people alive

I remember some very kind and brave people during a terrible snowstorm going out and persuading homeless people to get in their van to be taken to shelters.

There was an elderly black man who obviously was mentally ill and did not know what was going on and a young black woman put a wool hat on his head and they persuaded him to go to a shelter.

I have seen people while waiting for the bus who were talking to themselves and obviously in no shape to work. One man kept screaming, "GET A JOB, GET A JOB" over and over and he must have been told that either while panhandling or maybe people just guilty over the state of his clothes and hair made this unforgivable remark to him.

This is a type of murder and St. Elizabeths is looking forward to selling their prime real estate for a fortune to go into the pockets of the very corrupt DC government.

One woman in Pennsylvania wrote the WaPo about the closing of St. Elizabeths that when the state mental hospital was closed in her Penn town there were numerous suicides of the mentally ill who could not handle the outside world jumping off a bridge and this is murder.

YOU CAN JUDGE A SOCIETY BY THE WAY IT TREATS ITS MOST VULNERABLE CITIZENS and I have been very frustrated by Bible Studies that attack me for even mentioning the terrible state some of the mentally ill are in while waiting for the bus SCREAMING AT ME THAT CATHOLICS BELIEVE THEY ARE GOING TO BUY THEIR WAY INTO HEAVEN BUT PROTESTENTS BELIEVE IN BY FAITH ALONE ARE YOU SAVED. Would have used my favorite quote from the Bible which Kerry used in the debates (but his record does not show any great regard for helping the poor and Sen. Kennedy's record is the most shining example of a true Christian caring for the poor in his decades long fight for Medicare and 4 years he worked on studying and improving the system with Rosalyn Carter and THE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS ACT was the result and they both managed to get a years funding which Reagan/Bush Sr. couldn't touch but since that time Congress and the various presidents have been in violation of this law by refusing to fund it along with so many laws to help the poor)

St. James epistle SHOW ME YOUR FAITH WITHOUT WORKS AND I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS but people in churches are so angry and exploited at work that they go to Bible studies to let off steam and argue in a way they can't at work about the conditions even under Clinton when the economy improved corporations were so used to having one worker do the jobs of two or three people that even when their profits increased they did not hire enough employees and doing the impossible of the work that should be done by two or three people wears you down emotionally and physically and spiritually judging by the hatred of the poor but not the corporations and politians, including Clinton's draconian cuts in welfare and healthcare, who are really responsible for their day to day frustrations.

[me b zola]

5. Where is everyone who wants to talk about homelessness & panhadling?

Why don't you all want to post here?

[fleabert]

8. I think you shamed them silent...

good for you.

[me b zola]

10. Thank you for caring enough to respond

:hug:

[Greyhound]

12. I wish you better luck than I had

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4436327&mesg_id=4436848

"I've got mine, fuck you" is alive and well here. Maybe if you offer to broadcast their opinions on the radio :smoke:

[annabanana]

24. look at the time...many are fast asleep

I spent some "lost" years in NYC. It was alcohol related, and fortunately, not permanent. I never considered myself homeless, because I gained access to a (nearly) abandoned building for overnight.

The streets are a tough place. The ones you think have "chosen" homelessness have placed themselves, in their own minds, beyond saving. When faced with the indignities that come with homelessness, hope, a positive attitude, determination and the search for "respectability" are very, very, very hard work and many aren't strong enough to keep up the fight.

[Trevelyan]

39. The largest identifiable group of the homeless are Vietnam Vets and

Iraqi vets are beginning to show up at homeless shelters thanks to Bush's "compassionate conservatism" of cutting off even the two years of medical care promised to combat vets according to bush whore Mr. Chu who went around the country saying that if the Regime kept its promises to vets it would endanger our national security.

~~~~~~~~~
Please write to Kerry as Rep. Conyers has requested to ask him not to quit (again) the lawsuit against the violations of an honest Recount/Audit in Ohio. The deadline for Kerry to sign the papers to continue the lawsuit so Conyers can try to make sure we have honest elections is August 30, 2005

~~~~~~~~~~~

Who is the Real John Kerry? A PERSONAL HISTORY by S. Brian
Willson January 2004

.....
Perhaps Kerry's presidential aspiration could be called an obsession?! By 1986-87, my own politics were moving further and further outside the claustrophobic "American" box, and by 1988 I departed Washington, DC and Kerry's advisory committee altogether. Although I have followed a bit of Kerry's political career, especially his Senatorial hearings that uncovered revelations about connections between the CIA, drug running, and funding Contras, I have generally merely noted that he has a reputation for being liberal on environmental and some social issues but seems very hawkish on foreign policy matters.

His support for Clinton's draconian welfare reform program was depressing, as was his support of Clinton's Counterterrorism and Death Penalty Act of 1966, a precursor to the 2001 Patriot Act, the latter of which Kerry also supported. Kerry's October 11, 2002
clearly unconstitutional vote to grant nearly unlimited, virtual generic war-making authority to George W. Bush was for me just too grotesque.

[Mnemosyne]

47. So glad you survived anna,

the world would be a lesser place without your sweet heart.:hug:

[etherealtruth]

33. I'll post EXAcTLY what I have posted before ...

"There, but, for the grace of 'God' go I!"

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. Exactly! eom.

[wli]

9. whenever I meet panhandlers...

I empty my pockets of cash completely.

[me b zola]

11. But sweety,

There are so many homeless people who would never dare ask for a dime.

Panhandlers are not the same as the homeless.

I understand the need to give to those who ask for it. But because someone is a panhandler does not mean that they are homeless.

Let the understanding begin. The unseen homeless. They are all around us.

[wli]

13. the sad truth is I'm probably not helping those needing it most

Very true.

[Mnemosyne]

45. But bless your heart for trying wli!

:hug: We all do what we can.

[undergroundpanther]

14. People blame the victims of the system

But NEVER the system or the rich greedy assholes that live so well off the misery of millions..

We will bash the homeless but never bash the greedy corporate kings.. Why is that?..Why do we not bash the"alphas" that MADE this sysatem this cold and heartless way?

Fuck all hierarchy,Fuck that animal side of us that makes us act like selfish bully chimps and cowering enablers showing our fawning ass to the"masters"..Weeach must decide we need to do whatever it takes to make the rich accountable the rulers accountable to those they abuse,exploit and use up.

No more masters,No more rich pigs living off the misery and servility and low self esteem of others, No more rulers,No more hierarchical bullshit.

[oscar111]

16. Poverty Forum of DU has more threads

you ask, where is everybody?

try our little subforum Poverty, and see my "intro to hmlessness" post

[oscar111]

17. the weakest point of GOP-Dem front battle lines is hmlessness

that is , if americans have any compassion left in them

the GOP is most vulnerable to criticism here, for it is their greatest crime.

1OO,OOO /yr die from effects of homelessness

To freepers... if you are going to claim we at DU are just using the hmless as a tool to bash the GOP, why dont you end homelessness and get free from being bashed? You GOP-ers have all branches of the gov. You could pass a Congress bill spending 4 billion bucks to end all hmlssness === overnight.

35O billion was your taxcut for the rich... just roll that back. Four billion is a tiny part of that.

[oscar111]

18. Hmlss not a choice: 14 million JOB SHORTAGE forces hmlss on folks

good evidence of JOB SHORTAGE is in my sig below, with links.

with no job, how can folks be expected to avoid faling into homelessness?

families help many jobless, but three million/yr have defective families... disfunctional families.. or no family at all. {1 mill. on any one night.. but due to some rising up out of hmlssnss, and others falling in, the churning involves 3 mill/yr}

never in history have churches/charities been up to ending poverty on their own.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
only the state has the resources to end poverty.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

the state did end homelessness from about '41 to Reagan, '80.

Reagan the monster cut housing vouchers by two/thirds {according to one source which i recall but do not have handy}, bringing back mass homelessness and the 100 000 deaths / year that it causes. From heat, cold, rat bites and hunger.

reagan's Legacy is mass homelessness and death.

[oscar111]

19. "BORDERLINE HOMELESS" is a useful term

many live just above hmlessness...

sleeping on the couch of someone with an apartment

living in flophouse hotels

and the like.

any good estimates of how many?

[Southpaw Bookworm]

53. Some stats

FWIW, the official term used in the research literature is "precariously housed." You might get good search results using that.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4305.htm

http://www.futureofchildren.org/information2827/information_show.htm?doc_id=73316

http://www.urbanjustice.org/publications/PDFs/policyacademy.pdf

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/

[Mnemosyne]

50. I have missed that somehow, thank you oscar for

bringing it to my attention.:hi:

Unfortunately, I fear that things will become even more hopeless as * and co. keep up the policies which will make another larger generation of the homeless. The numbers will grow.:grr: :nuke: I hope I am proved wrong!

[oscar111]

21. AAR airamericaradio is a cure for this

get union LOCALS to buy a station and put AAR on air,

like anchorage IBEW local did

[Deja Q]

35. Say it loud.

But keep it at saying. A large chorus of chanters does far more good than even the smallest amount of force; which in turn only serves to destroy any causes we apply violence to.

[Mnemosyne]

49. How true ugp, how sadly true.

They will never take responsibility unless it is forced upon them. Monsters all.:grr:

[oscar111]

20. RECOMEND FOR GREATEST PAGE butt at bott of Orig Post

got two, do i see five?

going, going, going

do i see three?

do i see five?

going going, going,

anyone?

do i see three?

[loftycity]

22. Homelessnes is never a choice..never

Even when the choice is to not participate in this crazy and mean society.
Here is a really good video on the Veterans homelessness.
http://gnn.tv/videos/32/When_I_Came_Home
The US is an extremely hard place to survive.

I believe that all countries leaders want to keep the people on the street, to scare the rest of us into corporate slavery. And I would have to say that since the 80's they have done a great job in their hideous task.
If someone cannot participate in this crazy society. They are people!! They should always have a home they can go to. Be it a humble home or commune, a place that is safe and warm and always welcoming them home.

[area51]

26. "... to scare the rest of us into corporate slavery."

loftycity said:

"I believe that all countries leaders want to keep the people on the street, to scare the rest of us into corporate slavery. And I would have to say that since the 80's they have done a great job in their hideous task."

I've suspected this was true, at least in the U.S. They've got to keep us scared, otherwise we might demand decent pay, universal healthcare, affordable childcare, longer vacations, etc.

[Trevelyan]

32. I agree but it is part of a larger Illuminati World Dominion plan

The 100,000 worldwide sites questioning the official story of 911 are conspiracy facts not theories.

Please read Skull and Bones: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know But Were Afraid to Ask on several different sites to find out how coordinated this effort is with Skull and Bones, Bilderberg and the PNAC.

7thFire.com has a whole book online free about the history of The Illuminati. Bush, Senior, Bush, Junior, Clinton and John Kerry were all members of Skull and Bones AND The Bilderberg.

Kerry's campaign was a farce and a a Black Psychological Operation like 911 - NO SURRENDER, COUNT EVERY VOTE, EVERY VOTE COUNTS, WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN and Kerry concedes before the provisional votes are counted and had to be shamed into continuing the Recount/Audit by the very courageous Rep. Conyers and Green Party, David Cobb. Kerry deliberately did a very pushy fund drive for a special account to make sure all the votes were counted and stated that Al Gore could not continue the recount in 2000 because he had only $3 million to Bush $11 million.

Kerry may have given the $18 million to the DNC, not sure, but the rumor that he had given them the $51 million from people who mostly could ill afford it was false and a few weeks after this rumour Jessie Jackson started asking Kerry to account for the $51 million raised under false pretenses and to make sure that enough people were temporarily broke enough in case they fought his capitualation BEFORE the votes were counted.

A New Zealand newspaper quoted The LA Times months after the "election" that a few weeks after his betrayal Kerry was seen have a great time at one of Arnold Schwartzenagger's parties talking to Dennis Miller and the NZ newspaper Scoop commented that Kerry had disappeared from public view at this time leaving his much less solvent supporters wondering what the hell had happened.


Please write to Kerry as Rep. Conyers has requested to ask him not to quit (again) the lawsuit against the violations of an honest Recount/Audit in Ohio. The deadline for Kerry to sign the papers to continue the lawsuit so Conyers can try to make sure we have honest elections is August 30, 2005.

[rosesaylavee]

23. This is a very fear-based topic for most

people. I think what you will find when talking about homelessness is that those who are not homeless will more often than not denigrate those who are because of that fear that it could just happen to them.

Anyone who has volunteered at a shelter knows that the homeless come from all walks of life and it is a very short walk for some from the pinnacle of having everything to having nothing. The politicians who make the rules are to blame as are those who turn a blind eye to the situation and refuse to think of the problem as more than a 'problem'. These are people just like you and me and all that is different is a situation or condition that gets you sitting in front of your computer terminal right now and them waking up in a bunk bed in a shelter.

I once was on a business trip to Portland - a city I love most in the country btw - and the woman I was traveling with said that if "she were homeless, she would sure choose Portland as the city to be homeless in". Ignorant, yes? I suggested that perhaps it probably wasn't a choice made by most of them but that was lost in the next topic she introduced. Some people just don't get it but life will lead them where they need to go and to what they need to learn.

Peace to you my friend. Not everyone is an idiot - just more than we want to count some days.

[me b zola]

64. Peace to you as well

:hug:

[whatever4]

25. Walk a mile in her shoes

that's how I see it. People don't think, and they forget, talk is cheap.

I believe we're going to see more and more homeless, as time goes on and the housing market busts, unemployment, gas, and food costs rise.

And the police state just this week announced they're going to be watching THOSE people, the homeless, for being terrorists.

But we'll just keep spending our money on terrorism to keep us ALL safe. Though that safety means precious little to those on the street. As if lives wasted and or at risk aren't a tragedy in and of themselves. As if security and freedom mean much to one treated as an enemy for standing in the street. What does that society offer? A cold shoulder.

Now contrast that with THIS
http://www.watchingamerica.com/cadenaglobal000002.html

Chavez Dismisses Robertson Death Threat, Offers 'Medical Aid' to U.S. Poor!
"
The Venezuelan president apparently thought little of death threats from U.S. evangelists. He did, however, offer to enroll 6 million Americans in Cuba's free health care program, and even said he would sell poor gringos gasoline at half the going rate. No word yet on how those in need of a doctor will travel to Havana to receive care.
"

I also read yesterday that he has worked to set up food service for those in need. Meals are offered twice a day, at various sites around their country, and they make a point of saying it's because everyone deserves food. Not that too many people are poor. That point was stressed to the writer. I wish I could find that link, it was a good story, and great to use in comparing Chavez to Bush.

Now this from yesterday, he offered free medical aid? Wow. This guy is really something. And he's doing all for his own people. Takikng on the world AND Bush.

Sure as hell wish we had something like that, don't you??

[Trevelyan]

28. New Jersey City Uses Patriot Act to Evict Homeless Man

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adpid=20050630052509990001

New Jersey City Uses Patriot Act to Evict Homeless Man Sues for $5 Million After Being Thrown Out of Train Station
By WAYNE PARRY, AP

NEWARK, N.J. (June 30) - The USA Patriot Act, in the name of fighting terrorism, allows the government to find out which books and Internet sites a person has seen. It lets investigators secretly search homes and monitor phone calls and e-mail.

Now, officials in the wealthy New York City suburb of Summit are using the law to justify forcing homeless people to leave a train station - an action that sparked a $5 million federal lawsuit by a homeless man.

Richard Kreimer, who filed the lawsuit in March after being kicked out of the train station, said the Patriot Act defense makes no sense.

"Unless they've been smoking those funny cigarettes, I can't see how my civil lawsuit has anything to do with the Patriot Act," said Kreimer, 55, who is acting as his own attorney.

~~~~~
"That represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Patriot Act is," spokesman Kevin Madden said Wednesday. "The Patriot Act is a law enforcement tool to identify and track terrorists and stop them from further attacks on America. To apply it to this case is, shall we say, an overreaching application of the law."

Kreimer garnered national attention in 1991 after suing Morristown, the Morris Township public library and the police department over his treatment there. The library threw him out at least five times, claiming his body odor and the way he looked at library patrons offended them.

A federal judge ruled the library's rules on hygiene were unconstitutional - a decision that was overturned, but not before Kreimer had been paid. Kreimer has said he spent the settlement on lawyers, living expenses and medical bills.

In the latest case, Kreimer is seeking at least $5 million in damages from the city of Summit, NJ Transit, nine police officers and several others, claiming he and other homeless people have been unlawfully thrown out of train stations since August.

He also wants a judge to decide whether transit stations are public or private property, and whether people who do not have train tickets have the right to be in them.

[rosesaylavee]

31. And this is from AP - gives hope n/t

[whatever4]

36. Good for him

And shame on them. In England, they USE their subways for shelters for the homeless. Here, we boot them out.

Sick friggin nation we live in. Rather inconvenient persons just crawl off and die. Funny how many folks don't realize they'd be just as inconvenient in his place. Funny how many don't have a concept of public property.

I caught a spot on tv the other day, and I can't honestly remember the channel, but it was basically scenes of public property like parks and libraries and buildings, and for each scene, the caption was...what was it...something like "This is yours". Or no, it I think it was "This belongs to you" It was a great statement, slowly, one picture after another, and the words "This belongs to you". Moving, and in this day and age, it even gave me a little wake up. As far as what I now feel about my nation and my life. What am I entitled to?

At this point, I'm entitled to crawl away and die. No one will even notice until things are well and truly ruined for good. We're conditioning ourselves not to care. To blame the less able. They drain the rest of "us".

Know what's, to me, the most ironic and stupid? Our homeless, they're sorta like our smokers. Smokers have to smoke outside now. We stand there, outside, somewhere in the vicinity of the door, or wherever the designated area is. So, we're the one's outside looking around. Keeping watch. Almost the door guard. Anyone tried to do something, we'd be right there. The smokers. That's us, always standing around, watching. I think we're right handy people to have, I mean, we're right THERE at the door. And don't you think, in a situation, a terrorist situation, we'd be ALL over it? Oh yeah buddy we would, and having worked in federal buildings, don't think it hasn't come to mind a time or two. For non-smokers, I'm here to tell you it's been a topic of conversation. We're RIGHT there, at the door frequently, and any nutcase trying to come in would likely have to go through quite a few of us. And trust me we're up to the fight; we're an ornery sort anyway, us smokers.

Anyway, long-winded rant, I view the homeless in something of the same light, and I think law enforcement should too. Homeless folks...they hang around. That's what they do. You get used to them, you know who they are and where they live...so they aren't exactly strangers.

So when I read about watching them for being spies, I thought hell that's just the opposite of what it should be. These people are on the ground, right there watching, without a lot else to do. And many cops know these folks anyway, it's part of the job, right? So why not depend on them a little, appreciate their eyes, harness their attention. They can be seen as trusted individuals, I mean their lives are an open book, living homeless, and if anyone would notice something odd going on, they would. They're right there on the street, in the alleys, eyes everywhere.

Wouldn't it be better than shoving them aside...for some OTHER group to use...as the admin fears? I swear, they explain to us a danger, and then they go about making it happen. Like terrorism and the Iraq war. Made it happen. Shove aside the homeless and then target them as terrorists...because they're uniformly malcontents, because they've been shoved aside. Self-fulfilling prophesy.

[undergroundpanther]

63. Hearing about a person

who is a real "leader" who gives and is so secure in himself,he's not scared of real equality it makes me want to cry..I long for a person like this chavez to change this country and make the rich pigs pay for the harm they have done to millions.Rich pigs FEAR democracy and Equality is what they fear the most for with equality they cannot be the autocrats thier sickness desires them to be.

[me b zola]

65. "Walk a mile in her shoes"

To me, this has always been the grace of Liberals, the defining quality of who we are. The ability to consider oneself walking in someone else's shoes. This is how we are able to advocate for others who may appear to be very different from ourselves. We saw this with the Abolitionist, whites who joined Dr King in Mississippi, heteros who fight for equal rights for GLBTs, men who fight for a woman's right to sovereignty of her own body, and so on. This is the core of who we are.

The core quality of a conservative is that the only person's shoes they ever imagine themselves walking in are those of the uber-wealthy.


I am a huge fan of Hugo Chavez. Robertson's stupid statement about Chavez "destroying the economy" really means that Chavez redistributed the wealth to shorten the distance between the wealthy & the poor. The economy is used to serve THE PEOPLE, not the corporatist. Of course this is disturbing to a neo-con, they thrive on the life blood of others.

Would I like to see all of that happen here? You bet!


Viva Chavez!!!!!!

[Trevelyan]

29. Urge the President to Keep Promises Made at the G8 Summit!

Join me today writing the president to urge him to keep his commitment for $25 billion in African aid!

At the G8 meeting on July 8, President Bush and leaders from the world's richest nations pledged to increase development aid to Africa. The new aid will focus on increasing public access to essential HIV/AIDS treatments, provide educational scholarships, and expand economic opportunities for some of the world's poorest nations.

Write President Bush today to thank him, and to urge his continued support!

Urge the President to Keep Promises Made at the G8 Summit!

Africa has been hit harder by the HIV/AIDS virus than any other region of the world. More than 17 million Africans have died from AIDS and another 25 million are infected with the HIV virus.

At the G8 meeting on July 8, President Bush and leaders from the world's richest nations pledged to increase development aid to Africa by $25 billion. The new aid will focus on increasing public access to essential HIV/AIDS treatments, providing educational scholarships, and expanding economic opportunities for some of the world's poorest nations.

http://my.care.org/campaign/a30000000/ie5wedw2y7dibtt?

CARE operates 150 water projects in 43 countries around the world, working to expand access to safe water and help communities manage resources for future generations.

The House of Representatives recently acknowledged the importance of this work by introducing a piece of legislation that promotes access to safe water and sanitation across the globe: The Water for the Poor Act of 2005 (H.R.1973).

Your member of Congress can make a difference by showing his or her support for this bill as it makes its way to the House floor and a vote for final passage.

[cthrumatrix]

30. IF they wanted to stop homelessness and starvation --- they could.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

34. I was homeless for a brief period in my life. I saw the other thread

and wouldn't dignify it with a reply.

You pegged the way it is pretty much, but you forgot the pain of the cold. You try to look like you belong in laundromats or libraries, you look for work... (try it with no phone number or firm address)

It was hell on earth for me.

I have a different attitude for the homeless than most.

They are people in pain.

[shayes51]

37. I agree with you.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

71. re your sig: Nope. I'm here too.

And I have a yellow dog/

[lynettebro440]

40. Well I can talk from being in those same shoes

I agree with the person who said a homeless person is not a panhandler, although people panhandle for livelyhood, not simply survival. I want to share with you a post I posted on here a few weeks back. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4239768

I was homeless for approximately 3 weeks in Florida in 2000. I was a midwest girl, 40 years old that was making it out in the world for the first time after a bad divorce. I trusted my entire wealth of $10K (I know not much but all I had) to people who I thought were friends. They conjured up a bogus injunction against me, threw me out on the street and I found myself without anywhere to go, with any help from anyone. Now I know that never in my life did I prepare for being homeless, and although some would say I was niave (I have since learned some valueable lessons) nonetheless, most people do not ask to be in that situation ever, for any reason.

I spent a few nights on the beach (believe me my situation could have been a thousand times worse) a few nights with a vet named Tom who was under the Delray Beach bridge, I stayed a few nights in hotels, a few nights in my car but there is a feeling that is there with you always, that your life consists of what you can carry with you and what you hopefully can keep from someone stealing everything that you have left.

I was lucky, I came out from the underbelly of those that are truly homeless. It's a hard, defeating, stinky, appreciative, memorable, unforgettable, and probably the saddest time in my life. Don't look away from these people, help them, talk to them. One of them could have been me, and then maybe I would have had an easier time then pulling myself up to finally 5 years later, having an apartment and a computer and the ability to communicate to you that I was a homeless person that lived on the street and got to experience something that I never want to experience again, but know deep in my heart what it truly does feel like to not have a person or thing in the world besides yourself. Thanks for letting me share that.

[hippywife]

68. Thank you for your heart-felt sharing, Lynette.

It was very moving. It can't be an easy thing to be reminded of, let alone share with others.

I've never experienced anything like that and hope I never do. But what me b zola said, it is the very heart and soul of who we are, not just as liberals, but as fellow human beings that we can empathize with others. It's why we take up the causes we do, putting not just our mouths but our money into action wherever we can.

[seemunkee]

41. quote

It was once said that the moral test of Government is how that Government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.
Hubert H. Humphrey

So did this government pass the test?

I just finished reading a book called "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America" by Barbara Ehrenreich. She tries to make a living working unskilled low wage jobs in Key West, Maine, and Minneapolis. I can't say I always liked her tone but she does show what it is like to try and make a living with no education and no training. Housing costs and availability were always her biggest challenge.

[jbnow]

67. Makes you wish

That as long as we talk about being a "Christian nation" they'd pay more attention to Christ. "Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, ye have done unto me." That old For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

They (self proclaimed Christians) might not care what Humphrey says about morality or what Carter says, but have they heard of Jesus?
It is shocking how the neediest lose more and more of their protections, so many programs to help them are being cut back and I don't mean the "welfare" they bitch about.

In these times when the whole goal of policy is for those who have a lot to get a lot more...the least of our brethren is a growing population we are caring less and less for. It is a shame in the truest sense of shameful.

That person on the street really could be any of us. We might think we planned too well, know too much...but the best laid plans really do gang aft agley.An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain, For promis'd joy Illness and disease and divorce and crime do happen, companies close or go overseas and renege on their promises.
And in this rich country the policy is to turn away.

And I am sorry.

[JNelson6563]

42. Glad I missed other thread

I agree, most who are homeless are there due to circumstance beyond their control. It saddens me deeply. Many of us are but a disaster away from the same situation.

Julie

[Mythsaje]

43. My wife looks at me like I'm nuts

but if I've got a little in my pockets, I'll share. She's been working since she was 14 and has always managed to get by...she's won't SAY "get a job," but she's thinking it.

She doesn't have any understanding of the odds stacked against some of these people. No fixed address, no means of transportation, and, if they're lucky, one to two meals a day.

I know what it's like out there. She doesn't. And she's not the most empathic creature to walk the face of the Earth.

What's bad is I see it only getting worse at this point. The economy is practically trashed, housing rates are hideously expensive, and more and more things are beginning to hinge on one's credit rating.

I heard a couple of years ago that one of the root causes of homelessness among people who aren't addicted or mentally ill is the loss of a driver's license. That's something to chew on, since so many people think that suspension of a license is a good remedy for someone not paying child support.

In my eyes that's just stupid.

I heard someone the other day praising San Francisco's new mayor for 'cleaning up the streets...' or, in other words, chasing the homeless out of San Francisco to other communities like L.A.

I hated to hear it, frankly. That's not a solution...in fact, it's a bit heartless, in my opinion. But there aren't any easy solutions...not while corporate interests control the country and empathy and populism are meaningless words.

[Mnemosyne]

44. I had the great fortune to make the acquaintance

of Mitch Snyder in the mid-80's. We corresponded several times a year until his death on July 5, 1990. He fought a twenty year battle for the homeless and would be deeply saddened that more has not been done in the last 15 years. He was a pain in the ass to Nixon, Raygun and Poppy, one of the most vocal and visible at that time.

He placed he own health in danger when he would hold hunger strikes in front of the WH. I will always have grave doubts of the true cause of his death, it is listed as a suicide, but we know how anyone that interferes with those monsters tends to end up a "suicide". He seemed to value life too much to have ever ended his life in such a way. I could be wrong, there may have been personal demons that I am unaware of that drove him to end his life, there is no way to truly ever know for sure.

Raygun created one of the largest homeless populations the country has ever seen. It still exists, though it is rarely in the limelight. He was an evil man with no care for humanity. And it chills me to the depths of my soul to know that * is much worse and even less caring than Raygun. * is beyond evil, there are no words to really express just how evil this creature and his minions are. IMO

I was homeless as a teen in the early 1970's. There was really no help available ,especially for a teen in that decade. I was homeless by choice, in a sense, due to extreme abuse in my home, emotional and physical. I had no where to go and slept on the floor of the only laundromat in town, in unlocked cars and under a tree in the city park. A few times I was taken in by strangers, but they were usually predators.

It sickens me to hear DUers that make claims of homelessness being "voluntary". I believe karma will kick some ass for that someday.

There may be those that are homeless by "choice", but it is most often a forced choice. Shelters can be extremely dangerous and many that are mentally ill just can not face the confines of such structure.

I made friends with a lovely man in Montgomery, Al. in the mid-90's. His name was/is Melvin and he has untreated schizophrenia. I tried with all I could to get him to come live with my ex-fiance and myself. He just could not handle it. So we took him food and clothes, blankets, books and whatever it seemed he needed at the time.

He is/was a scary looking small wiry man with wonderful dreadlocks, but when he smiles, he looks like an angel. I believe that I was the only one he ever hugged or allowed to hug him in many years. Even though I took him clothes, he would wear them for a time and then go back to wearing garbage bags again, never understood why. He constantly was bathing from outside faucets on buildings and was run off just as often.

I haven't seen him since 1996 due to moving back to Pa., but each day I pray he has survived and life has somehow become easier for him, but I fear he probably has not survived. How long could anyone survive under such circumstances?

Here's to Melvin and Mitch, two people that touched my life in such a way that I will never be the same. You are deeply missed.:cry: O8)

If there are DUers in Montgomery could you please drive along the southern part of Montgomery (can't remember the name of the main drag there) and maybe see if you can spot him and give him any aid he may need? You can usually see him with two shopping carts, pushing one a ways, then going back and pushing the second cart up to the other. He is not a danger to anyone and is very sweet-natured. I would be eternally grateful to anyone that can find and help him. I don't have much, but would be willing to send some cash to help out. Thank you so much. :loveya: :yourock:

I am so grateful also for finding the people at the DU that give a damn about those that can not speak for themselves. Bless all your hearts, you have helped me find renewed faith in humanity.:grouphug:

I am with you me b, fuck anyone that believes homelessness is a choice.
V

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. I always give to people on the side of the road when I have cash

on me. I don't care what they use it for! Usually they are on the side of the freeway at an intersection, with cars lined up waiting for the light to change, and very few drivers ever even acknowledge them. :grr: :wtf: can't even lower the window and throw some spare change their way? SHAMEFUL!

[meganmonkey]

51. Thanks me b zola

I work for a hunger relief agency and people tell me their stories a lot, simply because I will take the time to listen and most people won't.

I have avoided these homelessness threads because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to put how I felt in words.

Thanks for doing it for me. Hope you don't mind a hug from a sympathetic stranger :hug:

(on edit: for the record - our organization does not distribute food to agencies who require people to attend prayer/church services or anything.I am proud to say we distribute about 3 million pounds of food per year with no strings attached - some of the agencies require proof of income/residency, but most do not, and none of the hot meal programs do)

[Terran]

52. I thank you for your anger.

I think it is needed. I found some statements by the OP in 'that other thread' horrific...such as, "I'm not sure if these people should be banned." Fucking talking about "banning" human beings. Great.

I work for an agency that connects disabled homeless people (e.g., mentally ill) with federal rent subsidy dollars so they can regain permanent housing. Some of the histories I hear and read and absolutely horrible. And such a disproportionate number of the people who are worst off are African-American. Terrible.

[The Witch]

54. I gave a dollar and a coke to a lady today.

She obviously had some physical problems. One of her eyes was out of place.

She smiled at me.

I had goosebumps.

just sharing an experience I otherwise would have kept to myself.

:kick:

[MadHound]

55. Thank you for your words

I know the thread you are referring to, and I find it hard to digest that there are so many so called liberals whose heart is so hard and cold, it just infuriates me.

I myself spent a couple of years homeless. It is easier than people think for one to fall into such a state, and much much harder for people to climb out of homelessness.

And for those of you who think of the homeless as being "animals", or that they "do this by choice", or that they're somehow "living the good life", wake the fuck up and get some compassion. For as the saying goes, there but for the grace of God go I, and someday it could be you out on the corner bumming change, depending on the compassion of strangers to stay alive. Karma can be a bitch sometimes, you would do well to remember that.

[GasolineBoycott]

56. Homeless

First of all, we need to quit offering "free meals," to the homeless. What good is a free meal if you have nowhere to live? Lets face it folks, people are homeless because the greedy 1% who owns everything in this country, and has us at war with everyone, wants even more. The 1% thinks a meal or a rotten food handout is going to ease their conscious, and it does.

These people need homes not more food. I know from experience, i was homeless for 7 years.

[shrike]

59. Good point

First things first; get a roof over their heads.

Unfortunately, with this administration we can't even think about that goal.

[shrike]

57. Wasn't it Reagan himself who said homelessness is a choice?

The thing that frosts me the most about that man is the mental health system -- and how he just dumped the weakest among us in the streets. I remember a quote by him, when he said the homeless were either those there by choice, or the mentally ill -- duh asshole, who do you think put them there?

My hubby is one who often gives to panhandlers -- although sometimes he prefers to buy them a meal so he knows the money is going towards some much-needed calories. My favorite story is the one about the woman he met in L.A. She asked if he had money for a cup of coffee. He said he'd buy it for her. She told him to make it two coffees, because she had a pie. The local food pantry was giving out pies for Thanksgiving. So he sat down on the sidewalk and had pie and coffee with her.

My sister, the uber-Catholic and Republican, had a humbling experience a few years ago when she lost her job and she and the family had to go on unemployment. She found a new job, an even better one than before. But once I was traveling in a car with her, and we saw a woman on the side of the road, holding a sign which read, "I have children, could you help me?" Sis pulled over and gave her some money. "That could have been me," she said, after we left.

I'll never forget the look on that woman's face -- she was so ashamed.

[mandyky]

58. I was homeless and working and pregnant

I couldn't use the Salvation Army shelter because I worked midnight to 7 AM and they kicked out all "guests" at 8 AM.

I am a hard worker and, believe me, few people on the streets are there by choice. Some are there because of addiction, but there are many more homeless families who can't save up the money need for deposits and such. I ended up in a pay by the week motel and living in a motel doesn't allow one to prepare decent meals, etc.

Then there are the mentally ill, it just sickens me that our government let's such things happen, and claims how good the economy is.

[Solly Mack]

60. I'll sign on to that

Thank you!

[txaslftist]

61. Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? -Scrooge

...in a Christmas Carol.

Then the King (Christ) will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

for I was hungry and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.

Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?'

'And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you or naked and clothe you?'

'And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?"

And the King will answer them, "Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."

-I mean, this seems pretty dang straightforward to me.

[libodem]

62. I have a friend who graduated from nursing school while living

out of her car. She had 5 kids, I'm thinking they must have been with their dad? Lot's of us are a paycheck away from the streets. The higher the gas prices, the larger percentage it takes from a poorer persons income....just like sales tax. The well off don't feel that extra $20.00-$30.00 a month for gas. On a tight budget that's lunch money not part of the cable bill or pizza. Plus anyone else catch the blurb....that the homeless could be a front for terrorists? No, kidding, I'm sure particularly if you have a dark complexion. This will be another reason to run folks out from under their bridges and alleys and harass them. A disguise for terrorists, gawd.

[Cleita]

66. There are many stories like this. For those who like to beat

up on the poorest of the poor, please know it isn't a choice for most of the homeless.

Your friend should try to get into a battered women's shelter. What her family is doing to her is abuse.

[spacelady]

69. I saw that thread asking everyone's opinion of the homeless,

and my first reaction was "There but for the grace of (god, destiny, happenstance, etc.) go I". My husband and I are college graduates, he has a Masters in Chem Eng with a good job; I had just been looking for a job after moving with a 1-yr-old for this good job he started; long story short, after buying a house and settling in, about 2 days into the fiscal year that *W* was first elected, husband got downsized & so did everyone else in the area. Took 3 years to find decent job & get back on track. We were lucky enough to have had modest savings to survive. Thanks Bush Family Evil Empire!
And "back on track" does Not mean we are as well off as Before Chimp (BC).

[faithnotgreed]

70. if its the thread im thinking of i was just talking about it with

a dear friend and sharing my deep disappointment in it

it truly bothered me as well and i posted to it (which is unusual for me since i try to keep to encourager role here even though there are numerous threads of interest to post to)

thinking of you and sending hugs zola