The have-less and the have-mores just got wider with high gas prices...

[Javaman]

I have been thinking about this for a while now. Do we have a class system in this country? You bet we do, but did you ever think that that same class system would be determined by gas?

Think about it. As gas gets higher and higher, who honestly will be able to pay for it? Not us have-less crowd, but only the have-mores. So as prices go higher and the rest of us drive less. The have-mores will, as always, have more gas.

The next status symbol won't be a fancy new car, it will be having a car period.

People all talk about various alternative energy cars, etc, but the reality is: they aren't being pushed to be produced and there aren't enough to go around and, right now, they are still expensive. So until there is an affordable alternative energy vehicle, the rest of us, as gas rises to over 3 bucks a gallon and beyond, will have to find other means to get around.

Thus the rise of the car class. The ones that can afford the price.

So as cmdr cuckoo bananas pushes is faux energy bill that makes no mention of conservation or alternative energy sources, he and his have-mores will be riding in there gilded coaches while the rest of us in society toil to make them run.

Colossal failure*

[bryant69]

1. Maybe this will force a revolution in Public Transportation

Oh wait, what I am thinking of - the wealthy won't want it and so it won't get done.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Carter tried. Raygun killed that off.

[liberal N proud]

2. America, the new China

We will all be peddling around on our worn out old bicycles. Going to work, then going home from work.
You thought you could spend some time at the beach or Disney World, forget it, that is for the Haves and Have Mores.

[Burried News]

3. Your thread title defines the circumstances accurately.

As to the preferences of the wealthy one would think that most with money would prefer a strong economy. Since I am not one of them, what do I know?

[MadHound]

18. Yes, a strong economy is good

But the haves and have mores have always looked upon weak economies as "buying opportunities" This is what happened during the Great Depression, and many of these people make an obscene amount of profit once the economy picked up again.

If one is rich, then it doesn't matter for you whether the economy is strong or weak, either way is a win-win situation for you.

[Burried News]

24. Here's a good example of what you are saying.

Net worth 11 Billion, started with nothing, runs a Hedge Fund.
Excellent article, don't let source fool you or length dissuade you.
He is also key player in AEI.
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/people/features/12353/

[HeeBGBz]

4. I drove through the poorer part of town the other day

I noticed there were a hell of a lot of people riding bicycles. It was kind of eye opening. Not the nice cruising bikes, most were old beat up well used bikes.

I expect I will join them on two wheels before much longer.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. The less we drive, the more gas for the tax cut crowd.

Makes sense.

[Cobalt Violet]

12. Less traffic jams that the have-mores will have to put up with too.

It's a winning situation for them.

[iamjoy]

6. Something's Gotta Give

but I don't know what.

It is not so simple to say the "have nots" will not have a car at all and will toil for the "haves." With cities being so spread out, in most areas peopke without a car would be very limited in where they could work or their ability to get to work without a car. I think the average commute is 10 miles. I cannot imagine people would walk that. Some people may be able to ride a bike, but I don't know how well that would work on a large scale and long term basis, especially for mothers who have to pick up kids from school, day care, etc.

The problem is, what is likely to give is our standard of living. Those who already live close to the bone will give up other "luxuries" like air conditioning and heat. They will have to cut back on groceries, eating out and consumer goods (the prices will all increase anyway as transport costs skyrocket). As they cut back on discretionary spending, stores, etc will have to lay off employees. You know how the rest of the cycle will work.

But, I don't see us giving up cars on a large scale.

[Javaman]

22. Actually, your post leads to another thought I've been having...

The reemergence of the small town. Due to the car and the ability to travel greater distances in a relative short period of time, small towns around the US have either shrunk to a shadow of what they once were or disappeared all together.

As prices go up, both industry and workers will have to economize. Workers will consider finding a job close to home (if there are jobs even to be had) or as a result of high gas bills and the inability to find trained or educated workers for their staff, companies may start looking into having "local" offices again, rather than a central office.

This is where tele-commuting may actually catch on in earnest.

Thus the rise of the small town once again.

Granted this is all theory, but I see population becoming spread out and decentralized rather than staying close to the cities because of lack of affordable or even available housing and the lack of public transportation in many of the major cities.

[MostlyLurks]

25. Vertical cities

Architect Paolo Soleri has done a lot of conceptual work on vertical cities - instead of spreading outward, they spread upward, leaving a relatively small environmental footprint and enabling people to take mass transit (elevators, escalators, "subways") to work. There would be open air parks and public spaces, they'd just be 100's or 1000's of feet off the ground. He believes there would be no need for cars except when traveling to another city structure.

There's a slowly-growing experimental site called Arcosanti in the Arizona desert that's trying to build a small-scale vertical city as Soleri envisions it. It's kind of interesting - you can even vacation there and help the workers build it for a week.

http://www.arcosanti.org

Mostly

[Javaman]

26. Wow! I have been trying to find info on that place for years!!

I had an ooooooooooold issue of Future magazine that talked about Arcosanti. This is going back at least 20 years. I always wondered what happened with it. Thanks for the link.

Yeah, I have heard about the vertical city concept. I think that would work for people already accustomed to living in a city and apartment life, but I don't see it happening for the general population. Speaking for myself, I find the idea interesting and since I have lived in a city my whole life, very practical, however, I don't see it happening for the majority of the population.

People like their space and a clear line of sight, psychologically speaking. If the vertical building concept could over come those two things, it would be a wide spread winner.

Also, I think as society becomes more polluted and more industrialized, I think as humans we crave nature and closeness to other humans on a one to one basis, will want to "reclaim" our small town roots in search of simplicity.

Granted that is somewhat of a dream, considering over urbanization of small towns and the rise in population, but I think many people in this country still think of that imaginary American dream of small town life.

Personally, I would love to live in one of those vertical cities. :)

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. It's not just the gas in the car

Gasoline is one of those economic fundamentals. It's price can affect prices of other goods and services across the spectrum. The same as if milk goes sky high, within a short period those things that have milk ingredients (dairy products and pizza for example) will necessitate price increases to cover the additional expense.

So, in essence, consumers are getting a double whammy. At the pump AND at the register for anything they purchase that has transportation costs...which is pretty much everything.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Yep. Next stop, Inflation City.

[Norquist Nemesis]

14. And the MSM is prepping the country already

I've heard numerous times..."but, so far, gas has not reached the record of $3.11 in the late '70s." Every once in a while they add the qualifier "when adjusted for inflation". :crazy:

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. Yeah.. they are bracing us.. "Gas not as expensive as milk" comes up

every so often too.

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. LOL! Good thing we're not buying 20 gallons of milk each week!

[BiggJawn]

21. Oh, I HATE that "Weasel Phrase"!

"Adjusted for Inflation"...

Yeh, well, back in 1980 (when AFI gas supposedly was worth $3) My income ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION was close to $60,000.

TODAY, it's about a half-gallon of gas short of $40,000.

25 years ago, I made 33.3% more money.
Fuck "Adjusted for Inflation"

[etherealtruth]

8. Absolutely correct ...

The rapid increase in fuel prices is a death knoll for low and moderate wage earners.

Welcome to the age of American serfdom.

(I do understand that American gas prices have been artificially low, it is the lack of governmental planning for dealing with the fact that oil reserves are FINITE and that this situation was unavoidable w/out careful planning)

[Avalux]

11. I heard something frightening this morning -

folks are using their credit cards to pay for gas. They're continuing on with their lives, oblivious, and racking up that debt. Not good.

[Norquist Nemesis]

13. I heard yesterday something else

That natural gas is expected to increase in price something like 20 or 30 percent this fall.

Of course, this completely befuddled our local weatherman. "I don't understand that. We don't import natural gas from the Middle East. Why is the price going up?" :rofl:

[Wcross]

15. Don't forget the squeeze coming from credit card companies!

Next month the banks will double the minimum payment required from 2% to 4% of the balance. If you fail to make the minimum your rate goes up to the max. Anybody that has to finance gas will not be able to meet the increase. They will be the first to fail. Good thing they changed the bankruptcy laws, huh?

[MostlyLurks]

20. Increasing the minimum payment is good, in the long run.

Your point about short-term screwing people who can't make the new "minimum" is absolutely true and it will undoubtedly hammer a lot of people who don't need any more piling on. That clearly sucks.

BUT, that said, I don't think we can look at the increase as a completely negative thing. It's to the general benefit that people pay more in minimum because they'll ultimately pay less over the long haul.

Not that that helps the people who can't make the newly-risen minimum.

Mostly

[MostlyLurks]

19. It's Already Started For Me

I started working a 2nd job four weeks ago because I found that my expenses had started to outpace my paycheck. I'm not a consume-for-consumption's-sake type and my expenses are generally in the "need" class as opposed to the "want" class.

So I started backtracking on why I had seen such a change and it came back to gas prices. I haven't gotten a raise for a while because business is way down, meanwhile my gas costs have tripled in the past few years. Used to cost me $40/month for gas, now it's over $100. $60 probably doesn't seem like much to a lot of people, but it made the difference between solvency and debt in my case.

My shiny new job as a stock boy with a 20 hour work week covers my monthly gas costs in 2 weeks. So yeeha! I get the other 2 weeks of pay "free and clear". What a joke.

And by the way, to all the lurking jackass Freepers who want to think I've made just generally bad career decisions and now have 2 low-level jobs, think again: when I'm not a stock boy, I'm a computer consultant and trainer.

Mostly

[BiggJawn]

23. The "New Technology"

Who's going to be able to afford this new alternative fuel technology? Us? We, the Have-Even-Lesses, who have spent all our money on gasoline and have maybe 2 nickels left to rub together? I don't think so. Sorry. I'd LOVE to have solar and fuel cell and biogas technolgy around the household, but there's nothing left after paying for gas, natural gas, and electricity....

And AGAIN in this "great country", those who are hurt the most benefit the least, those who are hurt the least benefit the most.