OMG! This makes me sick to my stomach: "Indentured Servitude"

[BigBearJohn]

Kevin and Linda Moore of Boise, Idaho, declared bankruptcy recently. They were required to list each asset and its value. They put down $5 for the toaster and $10 for the cat.

The Moores are among hundreds of thousands hurrying to declare bankruptcy before the new federal bankruptcy law goes into effect. The new law makes it very hard to get debts wiped out. Instead of a wipe-out, you get reorganized and have to pay so much a month. How many months would the Moores have to pay under the new dispensation? At, let’s say, $30 a month that would be - - Oh, don’t forget to calculate the interest.

In addition to not getting the debts wiped out, a bankrupt must attend re-education classes in which the financial offender is taught how to manage his or her money correctly. Take a family like the Moores. If one of its members comes down with a ruptured appendix, the sickly one will be cautioned not to go running to a hospital which they cannot afford but to go to Rite-Aid, there to buy a box of tissues so as to clean up the mess at home. With a little planning and ingenuity people do not have to live beyond their means.

The social benefits of tens of millions in perpetual debt are enormous. Debt ridden persons cannot afford to tell their bosses they can take this job and shove it. Debt ridden persons dare not go out on strike or honor a picket line. They are better than obedient. They are conveniently servile.

Mass indebtedness promotes the status quo and protects against change. All that and we make money off the interest, too.

{edited to add bolding emphasis}
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nicholas-von-hoffman/indentured-servitude_b_6170.html

[Vincardog]

1. Nominated

[smoogatz]

2. $10 for a cat?

Obviously these people have no comprehension of the value of money. There's no cat on the planet worth $10.

[jobycom]

4. Hey!!

[smoogatz]

7. Well, that's an extraordinarily LARGE cat, anyway

or so it appears in the photo. I hadn't thought of what they might be worth by the pound.

[jobycom]

10. LOL! You're incorrgible!

And I don't even know what that means!

[nashville_brook]

28. 10 bucks! i beg your pardon!

i wouldn't accept any less than millions for my doggies. :)

[wicket]

59. What a beaut!

Here are mine:

[tech3149]

9. I beg to differ

My cat Skye could be sold for $1000 (a pedigreed Bengal). I could never sell her because she means more to me than anything the money could buy.

[smoogatz]

12. I'm kidding.

I like cats. Cook 'em right, it's hard to tell them from rabbit.

Okay--okay. I'm REALLY kidding. We have a very nice cat named George. I like him a lot. But if anybody offered me a grand for him, I'd sell him in a heartbeat. The world is full of cats pretty much exactly like him.

[devilgrrl]

21. I paid $10 for each of my cats from a shelter...

they are my little friends.

[Lorien]

25. Hmmm since I work for a pet rescue, and I just adopted out

two kittens this past weekend for $100 each, I must beg to differ.

[smoogatz]

27. For cripes' sake--I was KIDDING.

No amount of money is too great to pay for a cat. Cats are without question the most noble and beautiful creatures on the planet. Every day I recite numerous heartfelt prayers of gratitude to the Cat Gods for allowing us to consort with their well-groomed (if noisy at times) and infinitely wise avatars on earth. Sheesh.

[jobycom]

38. ROFL! It's all about the cats. Don't mess with the cats!

Or you'll get a DU beat down! :-) :rofl:

[txindy]

43. There can be only one reply...

[nashville_brook]

29. you have some beauuuuutiful cats!

i'm partial to the first one. i'm a tabby kinda girl.

[tblue37]

32. I just adopted an 8 -month-old

kitten from a rescue society--$90.00, and worth every penny!

[Deja Q]

3. Gee. In a SHRINKING economy, how the fuck DO you pay your debt back?

Especially when the fuckers lure you and, in the case of even high school kids these days, practically hound you with images and sounds of "fitting in and being cool".

grr.

[BigBearJohn]

6. It all goes back to Indentured Servitude

[wli]

15. outright slavery n/t

[Infomaniac]

5. This new bankruptcy law will hit people hard.

[BuelahWitch]

11. It will also hit the economy hard

Any disposable income will go to pay down the debt. So there won't BE any lunches at Denny's, or new electronics for Xmas or anything that would help keep the economy going.

[Deja Q]

13. Oh well! Just what they wanted...

[cascadiance]

22. A whole class of would be entrepeneurs won't start businesses either!

If they cannot afford the risk to start a business without bankruptcy protection, they won't do so. Big business of course likes this with less competition, but now look to Europe, India, Asia, etc. for more innovation than the U.S. with this piece taken out of our economy that was a big part of growth at times, especially in the high tech sector.

[nashville_brook]

31. we haven't SEEN suffering yet! the way this hits people who have

medical bills is criminal.

this issue -- this reality -- is going to break us. i'm sure of it.

oh, doom doom doom --- i know, but this just freaks me out. i just had a hospital stay that cost more than 200,000. we would lose everything we worked for with a bill like this. we'd be paying it off for the rest of our lives. AND, and - the hospitalization came from an infection i received during an ER trip. malpractice? HA! it was florida. if i'm alive, i have no case. it's criminal.

[davekriss]

44. Ran up $859,000

in uninsured medical bills for my seriously ill daughter over one 19 month run (she's well into the $1 million+ mark now). We lost everything we worked for.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

50. And here I am feeling sorry for myself....

having only $5000 in Med bills.
Thanks for the Reality check davekriss.

I'm so sorry for your troubles. How's she doing now?

:hug:

[nashville_brook]

57. i am SO sorry...

i am at the pain clinic as i write this -- surrounded by so many sad stories. it is sick we don't care for our sick.

[Whoa_Nelly]

8. Am sure this has already been taken into consideration

and acted upon by the BushCo neocon/PNAC junta. Drive middle-class America to it's knees and below the poverty line, and the rich cats can keep on getting their piece of the pie in the plan for world domination.

[nosmokes]

14. very accurate, imo.

years ago i attended an international labpr conference in mexico city and one of the seminars was about how credit cards and revolving lines of credit and signature lines of credit were in large part designed to destroy worker unity. as this article points out, it's awfully hard to vote to go out on strike when everything you own you don't own at all you just make payments on.

[BigBearJohn]

16. What're they gonna do if you don't pay? Send you to debtor's prison?

[Theres-a]

58. You know that's where this is all going.

Few people can stomach the truth.It's their only way to enforce what they're laying down.I had my uninsured medical emergency which led me to bankruptcy in 2002.I feel my blood run cold when the debtor's prison talk starts.It was hard enough WITH the bankruptcy option ,but without it....

[LSK]

17. a ruptured appendix????????

NOT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL?? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!!?!?!?!

[FormerRepublican]

19. Hey, don't laugh.

In my state, if you don't pay your hospital bill, you can't go to the hospital - they'll refuse to see you. Same for Doctors. And the Corporate Hospitals here control just about all the medical care in the State. We have non-existent medical care, in my opinion.

[LSK]

20. im not laughing, im outraged

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE NOW. WHY IS THIS COUNTRY SO FVCKED UP?!?!?!? IM SO PISSED!!! THERE IS NO WAY YOU SHOULD BE TOLD TO GET KLEENIX FOR A RUPTURED APPENDIX. WHAT IS THIS, THE 1200S AND THE SERFS DONT COUNT????

[SlowDownFast]

46. Don't have insurance? Emergency? Lie.

That's right.

Lie.

Joe Shmoe from Chicago.

No I don't have ID. Forgot it.

SS number? 123-45-6789.

Impossible? It's worked for me before.

Doesn't work for any aftercare, of course. And any prescriptions they write (pain meds, etc) will be in Joe Shmoe's (or whatever name you use - hint: don't use Joe Shmoe or the above SS number) name, which doesn't usually matter at the Rx shop. They don't ID.

As for hospitals refusing to see you in an emergency, whether you are insured or have outstanding bills or whatever - HOGWASH. They have to treat you. By law.

[blurp]

52. So how else do you decide who gets the care? Lottery?

In my state, if you don't pay your hospital bill, you can't go to the hospital - they'll refuse to see you. Same for Doctors. And the Corporate Hospitals here control just about all the medical care in the State. We have non-existent medical care, in my opinion.

Remember that everyone is competing with everyone else for finite medical care and that this drives up the price. The top X% of people with money get the finite supply of doctors.

I was thinking that a lottery system would work to keep the bills down. It wouldn't create any more doctors or nurses to fill the need, but more consumer spending on care doesn't seem to do that either.

It seems the more that's spent on care, the more the price goes up to consume the increase.

[FormerRepublican]

18. Yet another reversal toward the bad old days in history.

In this case, the days when people (and their families - oh yeah, the family had to pay if you couldn't) were thrown into debtor's prison. Supposedly, the Constitution is supposed to protect us from that. But these Bush guys have ignored every OTHER provision of the Constitution, so why should we think they'd stop short at creating prisons for debtors?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

26. if too many people are declaring bankruptcy, dont give them credit

Simple concept isnt it. Tell me why credit card offers are sent to college students and people with bad credit??? The credit card companies want people in debt. And then they BUY Senators votes to make sure people with bad credit stay in debted to them indefinately.

You might have a point, but the law MAKES NO EXCEPTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO GOT INTO DEBT BECAUSE OF MEDICAL BILLS.

NO EXCEPTIONS. THEY DONT FUCKING CARE. THEY WANT YOUR DAMN MONEY SO THEIR FUCKING CEOS CAN BUY BIGGER AND BIGGER YACHTS.

[Vinnie From Indy]

37. 15 people? Yeah right and Elvis works down at the liquor store.

The vast majority of bankruptcies are from medical emergencies, divorce, lost jobs, failed businesses etc. You are spouting the same crap that the GOP and drug addicts like Limbaugh spewed to shove this piece of crap legislation through.

[girl gone mad]

49. That kind of situation is incredibly uncommon.

Big screen televisions don't push people over the edge into bankruptcy. It's unexpected events like medical bills, death of a spouse or divorce that cause the vast majority of bankruptcies.

You can sell televisions and jet skis and recoup a portion of your debt. There are no options when you are uninsured and are faced with a huge hospital bill.

As for the irresponsible people who run up debt for "toys": the credit card companies have continually chosen to give credit to high-risk customers. Now they are allowed to do so with virtually no risk to their own bottom line. How is that fair? I can't leave my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition every night and then expect to be reimbursed whenever it gets stolen.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Theres-a]

60. There should be exceptions

For medical emergencies.Period.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

62. Peter Parker is always on the edge of bankruptcy because of his aunt.

[StopTheMorans]

64. are they welfare crack moms, because I hear they're taking all of

our tax money too, those fuckers :eyes:

[LSK]

23. HERE IS THE SCUM THAT VOTED FOR IT (SENATE VOTE)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00044

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---74
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Byrd (D-WV)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Salazar (D-CO)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---25
Akaka (D-HI)
Boxer (D-CA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 1
Clinton (D-NY)


DO NOT FORGET THESE NAMES.

[Dave Reynolds]

30. Yeah, I'm in Michigan,

and my response from Debbie Stabenow (DLC) pretty much parroted the Repug talking points on personal responsibility and shit like that.

She does not get my vote next time.

[etherealtruth]

34. Sent her a scathing email as well

Got the same lame MBNA and Citibank sponsored answer from her.

[CrispyQ]

36. I sent money to the Salazar campaign (Colorado)

& the only vote he has voted on progressively is the ANWAR vote. Everything else has been to the benefit of big business.

[quaker bill]

33. it is simple, carry no revolving debt.

You do have to wait a little longer for things. However, you get them at cost rather than cost + 18% interest and finance charges.

If you are "too poor" to buy things with cash, you will only end up poorer buying things on credit.

Just say no.

[Lars39]

39. You do realize that some people are charging medicine

and medical supplies, right?

[Theres-a]

61. This seems to be more about

The lack of healthcare in our country,rather than the greed and irresponsibility of which you speak.When people are just making their overhead(rent,gas,food) and they are suddenly hospitalized,the money for medications,etc will come from credit.That is what this about.Not greedy consumers who fill the void with material things,although they will be affected,too.

[Greylyn58]

66. That's real easy to say

but I was still trying to recover from a divorce when I lost my job in October 2003, I went through all my saving trying to find a job and still haven't found anything. I have now gone into debt with my credit cards just trying to keep myself afloat.

I bought food for myself and my dog, gas for my car, medicine for unexpected illness(no health insurance),and paid my monthly bills--I haven't just bought "frivolous things".

It's real easy not to carry debt if you have a job and make a livable wage, but when you don't, you do what you have to. Now the government wants to just sweep people like me under the rug making it impossible for us to ever cause them or the big corps problems.

[area51]

35. Majority of bankruptcies

The majority of bankruptcies are due to our extremely expensive, unaffordable medical system, & job loss. (And now w/our Depression economy GW Hoover has given us, if you lose your job, it's extremely difficult to get another job.) Punish the few who actually abuse the system; don't fsck everyone!

[lonestarnot]

40. Slave labor creation... there we have it!

[Rex]

41. Well trained consumers.

I had to recently put my two dogs on a trolley system. I don't like it and now they mostly stay inside. The dogs were digging out under the fence and one is pretty mean. So I put them on the trolley and at first they hated it, tried to chew through their harnesses (something new as well). Now that two months have past I find that I don't have to hook them up to the trolley anymore They will eventually go to a spot (where they usually were) under the trolley and stay there.

I'm convinced that they still think the cable is hooked up to their harnesses, because they got used to things being that way. I think consumers also feel shackled by debt to a company out to make money off of their clients. Nowadays everything goes by credit rating so you pretty much have to have a credit card. Were slaves to money and agree that is the way things are.

[1932]

42. Sam Nujoma said in his book about Namibian independence

that the contract system after slavery ended was worse than slavery. When slaves were owned, the owners at least cared to keep them healthy. But with the contract system, you could work someone to death and then find some other desperate poor person to take their job.

[fortyfeetunder]

45. This is gonna be one sad winter

Energy costs almost exponentially increasing
Gasoline prices going the same way
Feds let credit card companies require double minimum payment
Bankruptcy bill will squeeze folks harder
Housing prices are going bonkers in many places
Job stability...need we say more?
Basic health coverage is a fantasy for many americans

But :sarcasm: it's all OK, gays can't get married!

[Bombero1956]

47. what's next

debtor's prison? Pay back your debts by stuffing envelopes?

[kitkat65]

63. Worse. Telemarketing. n/t

[EC]

48. The bankruptcy law should not include healthcare,

it's just mercenary to have a for provite healthcare system, if you think about it, it's just goulish, can't you just see that surgen rubbing his hands, seeing $$$$ for every patient he sees? And it's not like EVERYONE is in need of healthcare. :sarcasm: There was nothing wrong with the old bankruptcy laws, big businesses could abuse them and make their money and the rest could just start over, and still have to pay all secured funds. Part of our interest payments on credit cards is considered funds in case of bankruptcy, so they have collected the principal usually before a bankruptcy is filed.

Anyway all I meant to say was with all these Private Medical Practices going up all over as the answer to high insurance costs, have the idea of replacing high cost insurance with credit cards for medical, dental and vetranary care. I don't think this is the answer, they have limits, like $500., $1000. on up, but I think the highest was $2500. So, well you know, we can think and aren't myopic...

By the way, most of these Health Cards I've seen are GE Money Bank.

[Selatius]

51. The Corporatist advice to his workers: Don't get into debt!

Of course, this is just greed at work. The fact is there are plenty of things that could happen to force a person into debt even if the person was prudent with his budget. Maybe getting your limbs blown off in Iraq is one reason a family can go into debt.

[Historic NY]

53. Coming soon the return of debtors prisons & poor houses..........

ah, the return to the 19th century. America where progress is history.

:sarcasm: but true

[NuttyFluffers]

55. Thus a major reason why Usury was a major sin in most religions.

eventually these things tend to solve themselves... after much suffering and imprisonment... by the means of revolution and bloodshed. oh well, another downslope in the cycles of history. whee....

[NMMNG]

56. Only rich corporations are allowed the "privelige" of declaring bankruptcy

Destitute families and individuals are not.

I was in financial dire straits some years ago so I took up a second full-time job. I was working my two jobs back to back and getting about 3.5 hours of sleep a night. Eventually that, combined with the fact that I came to detest one of the jobs, nearly led me to have a nervous breakdown. I was in the thralls of a decision between suicide and delcaring bankruptcy when the opportunity for a transfer to a different position came up.

If I ever came upon a similar situation in the future I couldn't declare bankruptcy no matter how badly I needed to. I hate to think what might happen then.

[Theres-a]

65. kick

[BigBearJohn]

67. .