We're replacing our SUV. What kind of vehicle should we buy?

[smoogatz]

Let me start by saying that I love my '95 Explorer and will be sorry, in some ways, to see it go. It's got 130k miles on it, and I have replaced only the following: brake pads and rotors (twice); tires (twice); oil (right on schedule); spark plugs/wires; and the usual fluids, belts, and filters. That's it. This has been, hands down, the toughest and most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. It's also the right size for me (I'm 6'2", 200 lbs.), perfect for our climate (we live in wisconsin, and the Exploder's got 4WD), and has plenty of space for hauling large objects, which we do with some frequency. On the downside, there's the Exploder's truck-like ride; its tendency to roll over (this one was built at the peak of the roll-over years); and of course its considerable gas consumption.

Here's what we need in a replacement vehicle:

1.Plenty of room for wife and kid (small people) and me (large person) and occasional hauling of furniture, guitar amps and such.

2.All wheel drive. Must have. It snows six months of the year in these parts.

3.Reliability. I'm spoiled in this regard.

4.Built in the U.S. by union workers.

5.Excellent fuel efficiency. 30 mpg would be a good place to start. A hybrid would be fantastic.

6.Price. It's a sin to pay more than $40k for a car, so forget the Lexus.

Our other car is a Forrester; we love it and might consider getting another, though the mileage isn't all that great. I'm also looking at the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Toyota Highlander hybrid--thought the Highlander looks suspiciously like a mini-van to me. Any other thoughts?

[Midlodemocrat]

1. I was going to suggest either the Honda or the

Toyota minivans, until I read your last line.

I have a 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan that gets about 21 mpg. I have three kids and do a lot of car pooling and am pretty happy it, frankly, but I know some people don't like minivans.

[Midwest_Doc]

2. IMHO Subaru Outback

It fits your criteria and is of VERY HIGH quality!

[Thtwudbeme]

Right there with you

but, try to get a new one with a warranty...our Outback has had several expensive problems, and I am dreading the day the mechanic says, "oh dear, your head gasket is leaking!"

Stephanie
1998 Outback Legacy

[screembloodymurder]

83. Again.

Had the same problem... twice. Subaru would not fix it under warranty even though I had the car in before 60,000 mi.

[malta blue]

46. I agree

I have a 2000 Outback Legacy wagon with 120K miles on it. I have had to do only the general maintance work on it...tires, brakes, etc. I will be replacing the radiator next month. It drives well, and is good in the snow. I haul around a big husband, 6 year old kid, a dog and the kids sparring equip for Tae Kwon Do (in a huge bag).

Great car.

[no_to_war_economy]

3. minivans ten times safer than SUVs

go 45 miles an hour, hard swerve to the right or left and your SUV is upside down

me and my minivan will have all four tires on the ground

[theHandpuppet]

4. Check these out

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/static/450.htm

[Jersey Devil]

5. How about a Sport Utility Cycle?

Here's one that will fit the whole family:

[smoogatz]

6. Good thought, but in January

our brains would freeze.

[RaleighNCDUer]

67. Love the training wheels. nt

[Turbineguy]

7. We bought

a Ford Freestyle. Limited AWD.

[getmeouttahere]

8. Will you need a good trade-in value in 3-5 years?

Because if you do, by that time there will be a TON more hybrids and electrics on th road, possibly making it much more difficult to get anything for your gas-only vehicle. Just a thought for all of us.

[smoogatz]

15. Good point.

Which is why we're thinking about going for a used car this time around. I agree that hybrid tech is likely to take off in the next few years. Apparently Toyota's planning to offer hybrid versions of its entire vehicle line over the next decade.

[LTR]

43. Not quite

Granted, there will be quite a few more hybrids on the road in the next 3-5 years, but it will be much longer before hybrids take over.

The technology is growing fast, but not that fast.

I sell cars for a living, and while a car like the hard-to-get Prius seems to be the rare car that actually accrues in value, gas cars will still depreciate at the same rate for a while yet.

[MsTryska]

9. What about a Diesel?

that way if you have access to biodiesel you can use that?

[ultraist]

14. I owned a diesel car and it was a nightmare

Esp if you live in a cold climate.

[MsTryska]

18. why is that?

I have no idea - i've just been over to the Gov Fuel site and it seems that wherever there's not ethanol there's biodiesel stations.


Altho a hybrid would be the best option - their only jsut now coming otu with large hybrid vehicles.

[AngryAmish]

34. Diesel gels at low temps

My father was a diesel mechanic (Caterpillar). He told me that in cold climates sometimes they just ran the diesels overnight to keep the fuel from gelling. Or plug them into a wall to heat the fuel.

This was many years ago and I am sure diesels have gotten better.

The new diesel car engines are really remarkable. Please look them up.

[MsTryska]

39. ah i see.....

so with biodiesel the gas in the tank coul conceivably wind up being like crisco. *lol*


I'll do more research. my car is an FFV but i'll be damned if i can find ethanol for private cars in georgia.

[ultraist]

44. Yes, mine wouldn't start well in cold weather

Although it had a glow plug. Repairs were costly too. But, I owned a diesel nearly 20 years ago, so as someone mentioned, they have likely improved. Mercedes still puts out diesels.

[LTR]

53. This site has info about ethanol (E85)

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

I checked the listing of refueling stations, and ironically, there are no E85 stations anywhere in Georgia. Ironic, considering how many trucks down there are flex-fuel ready. Same goes for Alabama and Florida. Ethanol must not be that big in the south.

South Carolina has quite a few of them, though.

[MsTryska]

59. self-delete double posting. nt

nt

[MsTryska]

60. well i started doing research on that....

turns out GA was petitioning to be exempt from new EPA fuel regulations that would have made ethanol a possibility down here.


But the EPA denied them the exmption and it looks like things should be in the works to get ethanol here now.


I'm doing some more digging to figure out what the status is.

[Massacure]

73. biodiesel gels at higher temps than dinodiesel.

If your using biodiesel in a northern state, you better be sure it was winterized.

[ohio_liberal]

29. How long ago did you own it?

Everyone says the manufacturer's have made great strides in diesel cars in the last few years. I tried to find a used Diesel Jetta earlier this year and I'll be damned if I could find one, except for buying one online.

[meow2u3]

10. If you absolutely need an SUV, the Toyota Highlander Hybrid is for you

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/hhybrid/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_HIGHLANDERHYBRID

[Sparkman]

62. FORD, made in USA, hybrid SUV...ESCAPE, HEV 4WD.

[XNASA]

11. We were looking for something similar last year.....

We ended up with a Tribute, which is just a more refined Escape. We only drive it about 60 miles a week...but the gas mileage (w/V6) is not as good as I thought it would be. Although we did get about 28 HWY on a recent trip.

But I really like the Saturn VUE. It's not as refined inside, and really isn't for off-road, but it does have AWD.

Of all the small SUV's I drove, and I drove them all, the VUE had the nicest ride around town.

If you want to spend a little extra, the VUE Redline comes with a 250HP V6 (made by Honda).

Union made in America, good gas mileage, fairly reliable and it won't break the bank.

[smoogatz]

19. Did Saturn solve the VUE's severe roll-over problem?

I know this was an issue with the '04 or '05 model.

[XNASA]

26. I read someplace they redesigned the rear suspension...

And have solved the problem.

I always thought that was strange, because of all the SUVs I've ever been in, the VUE seems the most carlike, in terms of the ride, and I never would have suspected it was a problem.

:shrug:

[ultraist]

12. My favs in that category are the hybrid Highlander and the Outlander

The Ford Escape Hybrid looks like a great deal! Edmonds ranks it number one for most fuel efficient SUV

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/103385/article.html
Top 10 Lists

Top 10 Most Fuel-Efficient SUVs and Pickups for 2005
By Jeff Bryan

Later in 2005, a hybrid version of Toyota's Highlander will also arrive — likely as a 2006 model. Our hierarchy is based on the EPA's formula for combined fuel economy: 55 percent of city mpg rating plus 45 percent of highway mpg rating. The rating for each vehicle below is expressed in mpg as a city/highway ratio. With exceptions for the Dodge Magnum, Ford Escape Hybrid, Honda CR-V, Jeep Liberty Diesel, Subaru Baja and Toyota Highlander, all ratings apply to base models equipped with a manual transmission — and for pickups, a regular cab/standard bed configuration. Likewise, all ratings apply to 2WD models, with the exceptions being all the Subarus and the Jeep Liberty Diesel. You'll notice that some decidedly carlike vehicles made the list this year, such as Chrysler's PT Cruiser and the Dodge Magnum, and that's because the EPA classifies them as SUVs — even though they're basically station wagons.

Ford Escape Hybrid — 36/31
Toyota RAV4 — 24/30
Ford Ranger — 24/29
Mazda B2300 — 24/29
Ford Escape — 24/29
Mazda Tribute — 24/29
Subaru Forester — 23/30
Honda CR-V — 23/29
Saturn Vue — 23/29
Chrysler PT Cruiser — 22/29
Subaru Outback Wagon — 23/28
Mitsubishi Outlander — 22/28
Subaru Baja — 21/28
Dodge Magnum — 21/28
Hyundai Tucson — 22/27
Jeep Liberty Diesel — 22/27
Toyota Highlander — 22/27

[TlalocW]

13. Whichever company makes the Highlander SUV

Has a hybrid version of it out that gets 28-31 mpg. I haven't heard anything about it one way or the other, but it might be worth checking out.

TlalocW

[blurp]

16. Move to the south were it doesn't snow?

[onehandle]

17. Sorry, but you need a mini-van.

Honda or Toyota.

Better mileage
A LOT more room inside
Holds more people comfortably
Cheaper tires
Cheaper price tag

Let's face it, An SUV is just an inefficient mini-van with a high under carriage and oversized tires.

Drive what you need, not what is "cool".

Honda and Toyota minivans drive like a sedan, not stiff like an SUV if that helps.

Honda and Toyota hybrids will be here within a year.

[wicket]

20. I agree

I had a minivan when I lived in Vermont and it got around in the snow great. And the gas mileage will definitely be better than an SUV.

[smoogatz]

24. Gaaahhh!

I'm willing to make a lot of concessions to practicality and parenthood, but driving a minivan isn't one of them. A guy can only sacrifice so much.

[AngryAmish]

36. Hard to pick up chicks driving a minivan.

[smoogatz]

37. Unless they're ten.

But that isn't even the point. It's just an image thing.

[ultraist]

47. I'm a woman, and I'm there with you on the minivan thing!

LOL! I owned a minivan and hated it. I love my SUV, although it is a gas guzzler. Thankfully, I don't commute to work daily and use less gas than the average working person.

My next vehicle will be a hybrid SUV!

[ohio_liberal]

51. I hear you

They're like driving a goddamned bus. I had one years ago. Never again.

[no_to_war_economy]

48. will take my minivan over an suv any day

image thing? people need to over themselves

SUVs are for poseurs

[smoogatz]

55. Never thought I'd get flamed in a friendly little thread about cars.

Sheesh. DU--always something to argue about.

[ultraist]

56. No, it's not just an image thing

Suburbian is both minivan and SUV! The minivan is lighter weight, thus drives differently and doesn't handle cargo or wind well. It's also much easier to load cargo in a SUV.

But, I am comparing my 8 cylinder SUV to a 6 cylinder minivan I owned, so it's not totally apples to apples. ;)

[Ron Green]

84. My 6-cylinder minivan

did EVERYTHING better than the 454 c.i. Suburban it replaced, including carrying stuff. I agree that the whole SUV thing is about "fear of looking dorky," or some sort of psycho-deficiency like that.

[ultraist]

85. "psycho deficiency" Whatever.

I carry a lot of building supplies for our business and my SUV is much easier to load. It can also handle more weight than our 6 cylinder lighter weight minivan could. Spare me the character assignations based on what car I purchased. What a lame ass attack.

I suppose I could just as easily say, that people who buy supposed liberal approved cars, do so, because they lack identity and rely on their car model to fill some "psycho deficiency."

I think you are reading too much into this!

BTW, my gas usage is BELOW the annual average for my region of the country.

[Ron Green]

86. If you need a truck for your business, then fine.

I'm not talking about business use; I'm talking about the overwhelming percentage of SUV's that are bought and used for personal transportation in an overburdened highway system.

You can spin it however you wish, but the facts are that heavy and bulky vehicles use lots of non-renewable fuel, and much of the weight and bulk in our transportation mix is for reasons of vanity, fear or gross misunderstanding.

[smoogatz]

89. Boy. When did mini-van drivers get so self-righteous?

You go on and drive your soccer-mom-mobile all you want to, brother. More power to you. But you're not going to win friends and influence people by getting all judgmental.

[Ron Green]

93. I'm only judging based on facts.

Truck-based, big-tyred, high-center-of-gravity vehicles are extraordinarily dangerous in the traffic mix, especially when driven by distracted non-professional operators. Car-based vehicles, while getting generally much better fuel mileage, have "crush zones" that mitigate collision damage not only to others, but to their own occupants.

There is much evidence that most people with SUV's bought them not because they need them for hauling or business, but because of a particular fear: Fear of looking weak, fear of not being able to see over the traffic, fear of being smashed by another car, even the fear of not being able to see someone hiding beneath the parked vehicle! All the best science shows these fears to be groundless, with the possible exception of looking weak in front of one's macho buddies.

For the record, my minivan was totaled some months ago by a drunk driver, and I replaced it with a compact wagon that gets 42 miles a gallon. If I need to haul something, I can rent a proper truck.

[smoogatz]

94. So, you're saying you'd buy a car that got 42 mpg

even if it was pink and decorated with unicorns and barbie dolls. Well, more power to you, again. Most of us aren't that rational about our automotive purchases. Would that we were, I suppose.

On edit: what kind of wagon gets 42 mpg, and do they come without the unicorns?

[Ron Green]

95. It's not pink, nor decorated with unicorns

but I've gotten old enough to where my manhood isn't threatened by driving a Barbiemobile if that's what makes transportation sense to me.

It's a VW Jetta wagon with a diesel engine. My other diesel VW, a Golf, gets 52 - 55 mpg, and it'll run a hundred miles an hour anytime the cops aren't close by.

I just can't carry a 4X8 sheet of plywood anymore, since my minivan was killed. Sigh.

[smoogatz]

96. Diesel's not so good up here. Too cold.

And it's not a matter of my manhood, thank you very much--it's an aesthetic thing. But no one's ever accused me of being overly practical.

[tamtam]

97. Thank you

I posting a thread on DU a couple of days ago in regards to trading in my SUV. I have to say I really had to think about posting that thread because there will always be that one person. I actually calculated my gas usage last year and mine is also below the annual average for my region, way below.

OP I'm taking ideas from your thread because I'm looking to trade off my Pathfinder. I'm looking at the Hybrid Escape and it looks like a good buy. Right now I'm really interested in the Hybrid Escape and the forrester (sp). I really the forrester, it has quite a bit of space.

[mknmehappy]

70. NO to minivans!!

Stick to your guns, NO Minivans!!

[ultraist]

72. LOL! Most minivans in my area have W stickers. ;)

[Stuckinthebush]

90. Why?

We love ours. I know some guys have a problem driving the things, but that's a little silly.

If you need the space, go with a minivan. There are some great ones out there.

[devilgrrl]

21. How about a Volvo wagon?

http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/V50/



:shrug:

[ultraist]

23. Those are really nice, but much pricier than the hybrid Highlander

An AWD hybrid Highlander is in the 25k range.

Lexus hybrid SUVs are very nice, but start around 40k. My in laws just bought one and love it.

[mchill]

27. An AWD hybird Highlander

is not around 25K. I wish!! Think more like 35K and up.

[ultraist]

52. According to Edmond's it is around 25k

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyota/highlander/100413882/prices.html

2005 Toyota Highlander
AWD 4dr SUV w/3rd Row (3.3L 6cyl 5A)

MSRP Invoice $27,590
National Base Price $24,553

[LTR]

54. That's for the base Highlander

sans hybrid stuff.

[ultraist]

66. You're right! My bad.

[LTR]

69. Edmunds is misleading like that

Found that out a few days ago when looking up the Honda Accord Hybrid.

[DelawareValleyDem]

80. That's not the hybrid

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/highlanderhybrid/index.html

[Touchdown]

91. Ugh! Talk about poseurs!

Get a real wagon...



Just joking. :evilgrin:

[mchill]

22. I have been shopping for the same thing (almost)

I own a Honda accord. I laugh at your Exploder stats though. I bought my honda 12 years ago, have 280K and am on the same set of rotors and original clutch. The only thing I've replaced is the A/C condensor and radiator. I still have full power up the hills at 70 mph. (I live near an interstate in the mountains).

Otherwise, I'm also looking at AWD, as I've had enough of studs, chains, etc. I'm sticking to Honda, Subaru and Toyota for the reliability issue. European cars are too expensive to maintain. I need my cars to last. In fact, I may end up driving my honda for another year or two if I can't find the right SUV.

I'm tall, so many small SUVs get eliminated.

I don't care what SUV you are looking it, you will not get 30 mpg unless you go to a hybrid. In your price range, that leaves Ford/Mazda and Highlander, I think. If you're wearing out rotors, you must be doing a lot of in town driving? A hybrid would be a good, albeit expensive, solution.

I can't afford the price of a hybrid. I've looked at, and eliminated (though I wouldn't expect more than the high 20's mpg for any of these..perhaps I'm wrong):

Honda CR-V - backseat roomy enough, not enough leg room up front. Noisy.
Forester - enough leg room up front, back seat tight, less noisy than the CR-V, otherwise the best candidate. Not sold yet though.
Outback - enough leg room in driver side, not enough on passenger, for a tall person.

I briefly fantisized about the new Subaru Tribeca B-9, but in the end, I realized this would be an immoral choice.

[ultraist]

28. I hated my Honda CRV

It was very light weight, tin canny. Talk about easy to flip. The seats were extremely uncomfortable and cramped.

My CRV was a piece of crap compared to my mother's Honda Accord.

[mchill]

Because of my experience with my honda

the Honda CR-V would have been my first choice at a small SUV, but I agree, they feel cheap, they are too noisy for my already deaf ears and I'm cramped with my slightly longer than average legs. Otherwise, I really wanted one :)

[ultraist]

41. I traded my CRV in after two years for a larger SUV

For the very reasons you cited.

[smoogatz]

30. CR-V; annoying tendency to burst into flames.

I'd want to avoid that. I can't say enough about the Forrester: plenty of headroom for a tall guy, and if you get the primo package it comes with heated front seats. The '06 also can be purchased with a turbo, which, if you're mileage conscious, is something to avoid.

[DelawareValleyDem]

82. I know a couple of Forrester owners

who swear by the vehicle. One lives in the Pocono Mountains region of PA and says it's is excellent in the snow. It's not a UAW-built car, though.

[JerseygirlCT]

87. It's been a great car

but I feel like it's too small now. The backseat really doesn't hold 3 - unless you're talking about 3 thin eight year olds and no car seats.

It's been quite reliable, though, and gets decent mileage.

I wish they'd make one just a wee bit bigger... and why isn't Subaru making a hybrid? Would seem to be right up their alley.

[Digit]

103. I love my CR-V, and it is not noisy at all

Of course I may need to sell it soon since I lost my job....

then I will be going for a used Toyota Corolla with manual transmission.

[ohio_liberal]

25. The first thing I thought of when I read your post

was Dodge Magnum. The fuel mileage isn't fantastic--like 20mpg average, 27 highway.

It's tough to find one that fits all needs. I have a Chevy Cavalier and an older Honda Civic and they're both tiny. The back seats have been known to bring on bouts of claustrophobia. We keep a 1991 S-10 Blazer garaged and only bring it out for big loads or the typical twice a year snowfall of 20+ inches.

[smoogatz]

33. The Magnum is kind of cool looking

and fits my whole Stratocaster-playing dad thing to a "t." Too bad Detroit is so slow on the uptake, hybrid-wise.

[Mikhail Tal]

31. What about a Passat wagon?

Probably a little cheaper than the Volvo....

http://config.vw.com/autodata/config/buildModel.asp?AppID=GNQ&model=pwagon

I love mine!

[smoogatz]

50. Interesting. Thanks.

Hadn't thought of a VW. Are they reliable, these days?

[Mikhail Tal]

75. I've had good luck....

I owned the 1.8 turbo sedan from 01-04. Put 75k on it, and had 1 issue (coolant reservoir leak - covered under warranty).

Got the 04 wagon late last year, which has been flawless. I am much happier to own a V6 car - I think it will last longer than the 1.8 turbo driven 4 cylinder

I will tell you that we got rear ended in the sedan while at a dead stop by a pickup truck. Completely demolished the back of the car. My wife and I were unhurt in the accident.

As far as build quality, ride quality, safety, fit and finish, it's a tremendous car. I am partial to the German approach to vehicle building, though. VW owns Audi.

Once you drive one, it will ruin Subarus and Saturns for you.

check out vwvortex.com - all kind of honest info about various VW's...

[bunkerbuster1]

78. Use synth oil, they're fine

the 1.8l 20-valve, 180hp turbo Four is a great engine but it's got a sludging problem with regular oil. VW's been correcting it by enlarging the oil filter and recommending synth oil.

Driven carefully on the highway, it'll manage >30 mpg. around town, short hops, mid-low 20s.

Ours has been great, other than the one time we had an issue with a loss of oil pressure. No damage, though, and covered under warrantee.

I'd get another in a heartbeat.

You can get allwheel drive if you really must, but I think that's overkill. The electronic traction control (standard on GLS models on up) does wonders on slippery roads.

[bullwinkle428]

79. VW reliability - kind of a "good news/bad news" thing:

I think they've made big strides from where they were around 15 years ago, when they were nearly had to "close the shop" in North America due to poor sales, but it's still not at the level where Honda and Toyota are. I really wanted to pull the trigger and buy one 3 years ago when I had to replace my old, nearly worn-out Honda Accord with 260,000 miles on it, but in the end, I chickened out and bought a new Accord. Part of the reasoning was that I had a commute of nearly 90 miles each day (have since moved, and the commute is now around 10 miles/day), and knew the warranty would be gone in a little over a year. If I had to go out and buy a new vehicle tomorrow, I would seriously consider the VW Passat wagon with the TDI (turbodiesel) engine.

[LTR]

32. Try the Chevy Malibu Maxx

Granted, it's not AWD, but it does have traction control, which will do roughly 90% of what an AWD setup will do. Instead of applying extra torque to the wheels to control spin, traction control applies braking. It's lighter and easier on gas.

The Malibu Maxx has lots of room in it, and a back hatch. Fuel economy is up into the 30's. Built in Kansas City. A very good car.





Also check out another new Chevy, the 2006 HHR. It has fold-flat seats and is built on a compact car platform. It's assembled in Mexico, but all the parts are sent down from the U.S., so there is quite a bit of domestic labor in the thing.

[Chef]

35. Car

I would have suggested a Ford Freestyle but, the mileage is 19/24.

The Highlander is roomy and gets 31/27.

The Escape is smallest and has a 4 cylinder getting 33/29

I don't know were they are built and that may be the problem.

[Ganja Ninja]

38. I don't see the need for all wheel drive.

I lived in Michigan for years and got by with front wheel drive just fine. So if you give that up then I suggest a new Mazda 3 Five Door. But there are plenty of comparable cars on the market. If you must buy American made then your going to have trouble finding a 30 mpg + car with all wheel drive.

[smoogatz]

42. My wife's from California.

I don't like the idea of her driving in snow without AWD. I'd prefer to go with a built-in-USA vehicle because I think it's important to support union manufacturing jobs in this country whenever possible.

[Sparkman]

57. Here's the federal gov's website on fuel economy...easy pickin's....

This is the place I go to get conformal, standardized fuel evaluation:

www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml

enjoy.

[LTR]

65. I also think AWD is overrated

But I grew up in the midwest driving small FWD (and RWD) cars.

AWD and 4WD really tend to bring down gas mileage, particularly in a setup like Subaru has (full-time). As I said before, check out a traction control setup. Will help to minimize slippage, and it is lighter and less expensive, giving you much better overall fuel consumption.

[SoCalDem]

40. Used Honda

We still love ours..'91 and still going strong..Looks nice too (when I clean it out )

[imperialismispasse]

45. My buddy and his wife love their Subaru Outback

I think it fits all your requirements. Good luck.

[beetbox]

49. Here you go

the only energy cost of this velomobile is charging the batteries. That has been calculated at less than a penny for 50 miles of travel.

OTHER VEHICLE OPTIONS

--For people who want small carlike vehicles without pedaling, the next step up is something commonly called a neighborhood electric vehicle, basically a golf cart with a top, windows, lights and other features. They generally are licensed to be used on roads with speed limits of up to 35 mph.

--There are about 30,000 such vehicles licensed in the United States, said Jennifer Watts, marketing communications associate for the Electric Drive Transportation Association in Washington. They operate on rechargeable batteries.

--As for full-fledged cars, hybrids such as the Toyota Prius are becoming more popular. Toyota reported selling 9,191 Prius cars in July, up 92 percent from a year earlier. The Prius saves on fuel by using supplementary battery power.

--Toyota plans to have 10 different types of hybrid vehicles, ranging from sport-utility vehicles to small cars, within the next few years, while Ford Motor Co. has said it will have five different hybrid models by 2008. A new law granting tax credits to hybrid buyers is intended to boost sales.

[smoogatz]

58. Cool.

And if you're not driving it, it doubles as a washer/dryer.

[ohio_liberal]

63. Um...

Is that a bicycle wheel in the back?

[beetbox]

68. Top speed 50-60mph

though most go 30-40 mph.

An entire rethinking of our culture is essential for our survival. And the icecaps are melting, the tundra thaws.

Guzzle Gas and Pretend by Derrick Jackson
Americans probably know this deep down. It is almost as if we are binging to distract us from the needless killing. We build bigger subdivisions as far out as we can, no matter what it means in commuting time and $2.55 gasoline.

Even though the average size of the American family has shrunk, the average size of a new home has grown from an average of 983 square feet in 1950 to 2,330 square feet today, according to the National Association of Home Builders. The percentage of new homes over 2,400 square feet has zoomed from 10 percent in 1970 to 38 percent today. The percentage of new homes with two-car garages has grown from 39 percent in 1970 to 82 percent today.

In a New York Times feature this week about ''living large" in the exurbs, a sales representative joked with a family that was looking at a model home, ''Lots of places to hide, aren't there, boys?" It is mathematically impossible for the rest of the world to live like this. As the boys play hide and seek for a moment, the parents play out the fantasy that hiding from the reality of consuming a quarter of the world's energy and producing a quarter of the world's greenhouse gases is an all-American right.

Unfortunately, it is difficult for a populace to be enlightened if its leader keeps leaving it in the dark. President Bush, according to the Times, is planning to leave out mega-SUVs such as Hummers from new fuel economy standards, apparently to ease the competitive strain on Detroit, which has invested far more in selling gas guzzlers than foreign automakers. With the explosion of SUVs (trucks now account for 50 percent of light-duty vehicle sales), the nation's average fuel economy has been flat for a quarter century and has actually fallen slightly, from 22.1 miles per gallon in 1987 to 21 miles per gallon today.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0817-22.htm

[apnu]

61. I bought a Ford Escape Hybrid

The catch with it, however, is the 4WD version gets crap for mileage. I got the FWD one (I live in the city) and my mileage is just amazing!

And the price was pretty right, we got Ford down to 26K for the car.

[Sparkman]

76. Federal website shows users report 30mpg for ESCAPE HEV, 4WD!!!

What's "crap" about that? The website:
www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml

I've driven VW Beetles, air cooled '60, '65 & '66 sqback for 30 years, and our two Ford Taurus GL's were famously reliable and I've been fighting the bad mouthing about Ford products. I paid $10K each for both my 93 & 97 Taurus's, used with 20K miles as 2 year old used buys. You could wait & get a 2 year old SUV, if anyone will sell.

[smoogatz]

77. How do you like it?

We looked at Escapes last summer and found the interiors a bit cramped and plastic-y. Is the hybrid any better in that regard?

[apnu]

99. I like it a lot

Comes with a load of options that are standard and I can completely stretch out on long drives in the passenger seat. I'm 6'1"

[mccoyn]

64. Ford Focus?

When I was shopping for a car I liked the Ford Focus. It's big, has a powerful engine and gets good mileage. It was definantly impressive, but I went with a smaller car with better milage because its just me.

You can save more gas by bicycle commuting 6 months a year rather than by switching to a smaller car. $2000 for a couple well built recumbents is a lot cheaper and you can keep the explorer at home for moving the kids and furniture around.

[ultraist]

71. Interesting. Annual costs of driving

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/gasprices.aspx

The top ten most expensive places for driving:
Metro Area Annual cost Gas price
1. Atlanta GA $4,573 $2.200
2. Birmingham AL $4,448 $2.192
3. Nashville-Davidson TN $4,418 $2.205
4. Orlando FL $4,382 $2.270
5. Jacksonville FL $4,202 $2.281
6. Pensacola FL-AL $4,181 $2.281
7. Indianapolis IN $4,151 $2.335
8. San Francisco-Oakland CA $4,149 $2.699
9. Raleigh-Durham NC $4,117 $2.252
10. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana CA $4,091 $2.610

We live in Raleigh but spend less than the annual average, even though we own a SUV. Our second car is a compact though.

At least three of those cities listed are BLUE regions. Hmmm...I suppose not all good liberals conserve on gas.

[smoogatz]

74. We actually walk to work.

We both teach at our local university, and we live a fifteen minute walk from school. But we have to drive for groceries, etc. And we travel to the Twin Cities fairly frequently.

[Nite Owl]

81. How about a Saab 92x?

They have the Subie awd system, very nice little car and they aren't very pricey, they can be had in the low 20's-30k depending on what you add. MPG was in the 20's. I live in snow country and gave up the AWD last winter for better mpg and I haven't had problems. FWD and good tires seem to work unless it's deep snow. The roads get cleaned up pretty fast here so it works for me.

[Corgigal]

88. I also had an Explorer

then a Mini-van. Now I own this car and you need to feel her drive to see how comfortable she is. My husband is disabled with a back injury and if we have to take a long drive, I know he won't be any worst for wear.

She is a crossover vehicle. 19 miles per gallon AWD.

http://www.buick.com/rendezvous/photogallery/

[crispini]

92. a friend of mine has a Ford Escape hybrid which I have driven

a few times. I quite like it! plus, great mileage!

[all.of.me]

98. your situation sounds like mine

except we are all small people, but we carpool to school with big people. i have a 4runner (18 mpg) and am considering the highlander hybrid for the future. i would, personally, never buy a ford....

[smoogatz]

101. If there was a hybrid 4Runner, that'd be my first choice.

Though I'm sure they'd be pretty pricey.

[all.of.me]

102. i LOVE my 4runner!

it is a '91, but had only 94,000 miles on it when i bought it last year. it was practically new inside. it has many years to go on it, but i am glad i also have another car for economy!

i was looking at the highlander hybrids, and they only expect them to get 30 mpg, like a 4 cylinder, not 50 like the prius. that is not cost effective for me - car payment, higher insurance, and not that big a gas savings. cheaper for me to stick with what i have for now. there is also a hybrid camry coming out. i love it! all cars should be hybrids!

[in_cog_ni_to]

104. Toyota came out with the Highlander Hybrid and in 2006 the Camry

will be offered as a Hybrid! The Camry has a CAVERNOUS trunk and should be plenty big for your family. If you could wait until '06...the Camry could work for you. Here's a link to Toyota.

http://www.toyota.com/

I don't know if the info about the Camry Hybrid is on the site, but I got an email from Toyota about it. :hi:

[TexasLady]

100. Icant tell you, but I can say this is a true story!

When I lived in Greece in the eighties, I swear I saw Entire FAMILIES on mopeds, and seeing two adults and 2 kids on one scooter was pretty common!

Im spoiled too! Ive got an Olds 98, circa 1986. I love it, and it was doing 35 mpg when I took it to Crawford last week!

good luck on your hunt.
:hi: