I honestly think the tide may be turning.

[Redstone]

We have a young (22) neighbor who's a clean-cut, ramrod-straight local cop. That's all he's wanted to be, all his life.

He has a friend (who whe also know) who is in the Marines, and home on leave before he gets shipped to Falluja in September.

The two of them stopped by our house tonight on their way to the bar, and we had a lively discussion (not prompted by me) about how we could get this poor kid out of being sent to that hellhole in Iraq. I told the kid who's a cop to get his friend drunk and send him over later so he could pick a fight with me and get arrested for disturbing the peace, assault, battery, and so on, thereby earning a ticket out. I'd be happy to let the Marine kid put some bruises on me if that would help. I'd even go a broken bone or two if necessary.

Here are these two straight-arrow young kids, one a cop, another a Marine, and both of them saying "I don't get it with Bush. He's gone fucking nuts or something." Again, with no prompting from me or Mrs R.

I had a fairly long talk with the young Marine, and I get the very strong sense that he's NOT the only one going over there with the express intention of just keeping his head down and coming home with his skin intact. Sound like Viet Nam after about 1967, anyone?

No "Hoo-Ya's" from him - nor, I suspect, from many in his unit. These kids are a whole bunch smarter than bushyboy and his crowd give them credit for. If they're looking for Crusaders, they're not going to get any from these kids; they're too intelligent to buy the bullshit.

I sense the tide turning. I really do.

PS: Lurking Freepers, this is the stone truth, whether you like it or not. Although you're bloviating bravely from Mom's basement about how you'd teach them ragheads to fuck with the good old USA, Hoo-Ya, the kids who are actually putting on the uniform are NOT going to fight like you wankers fantasize that you would, if you only had the balls. You cowards.

Redstone

Edited for a missing letter.

[meganmonkey]

1. Thank you for this story

It helps to hear examples of how the tide is turning. I believe wholeheartedly that is. I have no other choice but to believe that.

:patriot:

[Scout1071]

2. Thanks for sharing that story Redstone.

I wish that young man didn't have to go. I hope he returns safely SOON.

[Redstone]

5. I think he'll be careful. I showed him my scars, and that seemed

to have an effect. Being a young, handome guy, he doesn't want to get marked up like that.

But he laughed when I told him "Don't ride the skid," because I had forgotten that the helicopters all have wheels now.

Redstone

[malmapus]

101. lol yeah no skids for us these day

Makes jumping out of them for an airborne op easier too (just slide out the door). :D

[bliss_eternal]

133. You have mail!

I pm'd you...

[evilqueen]

3. :)

I suspect most of the people in the military feel the way that young marine does. Nobody I ever knew in the military was all that gung-ho-lets-go-kill-some-people. In fact, most of the "Frank Burns"-types (M*A*S*H character) usually get fragged in combat because these are the people that can get you killed.

[LTR]

4. Nominated!

Great story. This really shows a side not many talk about.

Thank you so much for posting it.

[ultraist]

6. I think you're right! "There's Something in the Air"

Very cool video:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4456103&mesg_id=4456103

At the end of the Vietam war, the approval ratings were right about where the approval ratings for Bush's handling of Iraq are: 38%.

The Peace movement is picking up major momentum. It's happening.

:bounce: :hippie: :patriot:

[Blue_In_AK]

7. "Sound like Viet Nam after about 1967, anyone"

I just said in another post today that I'm feeling kind of 1968 these days. Are we in some kind of time warp?

[ultraist]

9. No time warp. History repeats itself. n/t

[MojoXN]

169. Indeed...

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

MojoXN

[tlsmith1963]

13. Even the Songs Are Sounding Good Again

I was pretty young in the '60s, so I grew up thinking '60s music wasn't "relevant" to me. I went through Punk Rock instead. A strange thing has been happening recently. Whenever I hear a '60s song, it actually sounds *good* to me! I'm paying attention to the lyrics, & these songs suddenly seem so up to the minute. I guess the times really have changed.

Tammy

[Historic NY]

74. Find the soundtrack from Forest Gump the movie........

lots of good songs there.

[LWolf]

85. I was young in the 60s, too.

I cut my musical teeth on 60s folk/rock/protest music. (Thanks, mom!)

I hadn't thought about them in decades, but I pulled them out and started playing them about January, 2002. It's amazed me; they fit like a glove.

"Masters of War."

[PegDAC]

110. Protest Music

On his recent tour, John Prine brought "Your Flag Decal Won't Get You into Heaven Anymore" out of the retirement it had been in since 1975.
:bounce: :hippie: :applause:

[ClintonTyree]

119. All you have to do is listen to "Sam Stone" once........

and you'll be well acquainted with the human misery inherent to war, at least from our soldier's point of view.
John Prine is a national treasure.

[Teena]

99. Musicians lead the way...

to peace once again. Unless someone has teenagers or young adults or is plugged into the music scene in some other way, they may not pay attention to the fact that musicians have always provided some outlet for frustration with war-mongering administrations. I love NOFX's song, The Idiots Are taking Over. It deals with the Bush-supporting ultra-religious right's goofy ideas and is very funny. I was really heartened to see how many popular groups were involved not only in encouraging young people to get out to vote but have also tried hard to spread the facts about Bush's rotten domestic and foreign policies and his obvious disdain for the rule of law as it applies to him. WOW - As I was writing this I just saw Cindy Sheehan's commercial (which is sponsored by Gold Star Families for Peace) for the first time. Very powerful. Her face fills the screen and she says the word lie, in reference to Bush, several times. Excellent graphic product of this growing movement.

[mermaid]

104. Can't Resist This....

Oh, yes, the times, they are a-changin'!!!

[Raiden]

170. You know, a lot of good music has come out recently

This is an exciting time--as opposed to the last four years of Bushit

[Mabus]

20. In some ways I hope not, but then again

1968 was the year we lost MLK and RFK; North Korea seized a US ship it claimed was spying; and the Tet Offensive began that year.

Of course 1968 was also the year that Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists on the Olympic dias after their wins (1st and 3rd) in the 200 meter.



Sometimes all it takes is one or two courageous individuals. Today we have Cindy.

[Lasher]

81. She was the Pueblo

Seized in January 1968. I was in the Army, and was shipped to Seoul in 1969. I remember the South Koreans wanted to invade the north over the incident. We were a little anxious.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-p/ager2-k.htm

[Mabus]

138. Thank you

I have no idea why I remember that. I was 7 but for some reason it has always stuck in my mind. The only thing I can think of is that my dad is/was a former Marine who fought in the Korean Conflict (two tours of duty and two Purple Hearts) so whenever something happened with North Korea it was something that was talked about around the dinner table.

[Lasher]

147. Korean Defense Service Medal

Your father is eligible for the recently authorized Korean Defense Service Medal.

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20040209-0334.html

[Mabus]

153. I'll tell him

I saw his Purple Hearts once. My mom showed them and some other medals my dad had earned to me once. She kept them in the bottom of a dresser in my parents' room. He talked about getting rid of them during Viet Nam but mom (a former WAC) wouldn't let him. The only visible sign (besides dad's photo album) around the house that my dad served was a plaque with the Marine insignia on it. It also listed some of his accomplishments in the service. I don't know who made it but it was the only thing he ever displayed. The plaque itself is strange because it is a commemorative in nature. It lists the year he was born and the year they thought he died. My dad was in combat and was one of the few who made it back from that particular battle. It took him almost a week to get back to friendly territory. He was dragging back what was left of the bodies of two of his buddies. I never understood that until I heard that Marines don't leave other Marines behind.

Anyway, he was presumed dead, my grandparents were informed and his stuff had already been shipped back. To top it off, in their haste to treat him he was given a shot of penicillin which he is allergic to and it almost killed him. I didn't know about his near death experience until four or so years ago when my aunt told me.

Like some Viet Nam vets when he came home he wasn't sure why he had been put through hell. It's hard to describe how he feels about his time in Korea but he's had a hard time believing what he did was for a good cause. He may or may not request the KDSM but I will tell him.

[Lasher]

161. Here's how to get the medal

He needs to fill out DD Form 149, and include a copy of his DD 214. If he doesn't have a copy of his DD 214, he'll need to get a copy of it via form SF-180

Instructions and forms are available here:

http://members.aol.com/forvets/htom.htm

[Mabus]

162. Actually

According to the first link you gave me The KDSM period of eligibility is July 28, 1954, to a future date to be determined by the secretary of defense. I'm not sure what that means. My dad was there before the armitice was signed. While I don't know the exact years of his service I do know that when got back from Korea he was a DI on Parris Island when got back and by July 1954 was on his way out of the service. He was stationed in McAlister, Oklahoma where my oldest brother was born earlier that month. His duties were there had something to do with military prisoner transfers.

I'll talk to him about it.

[Lasher]

163. OK

I figured he was there before and after July 28 1954. See, the KDSM was created because there was no specific medal to recognize all those who were there after that time. Typically, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal was awarded because nothing else like the KDSM existed at the time.

While you're at it, you might want to check out the Combat Action Ribbon.

[Amsterdam Hooligan]

89. After "68", We started asking "WHY"

Being at LZ English in 1969, we started refusing missions.....and the movement was on.

The Military and the Monetary,
get together whenever they think its necessary,

They turn our brothers and sisters into mercenaries, they are turning the planet into a cemetery.
The Military and the Monetary, use the media as intermediaries,
they are determined to keep the citizens secondary, they make so many decisions that are arbitrary.

We're marching behind a commander in chief,
who is standing under a spotlight shaking like a leaf.
but Haliburton had landed on an economic reef,
so we knew he was going to bring us messages of grief.

The Military and the Monetary,
from thousands of miles in a Iraqi sanctuary,
keeps us all wondering if all of this was really truely, necessary.

We've got to work for Peace,
Peace ain't coming this way.
The only thing wrong with Peace,
is that you can't make no money from it.........

Got to work for Peace,
Peace ain't coming this way.

We should not allow ourselves to be mislead,
by talk of entering a time of Peace,
Peace is not the absence of war,
it is the absence of the rules of war and the threats of war and the preparation for war.
Peace is not the absence of war,
it is the time when we will all bring ourselves closer to each other,
closer to building a structure that is unique within ourselves
because we have finally come to Peace within ourselves.



Brother Gil Scott-Heron........

[Mabus]

140. Just found LZ English -- WOW!

LZ English 2 days after VC attack — June 67

My hats off to you.


The carnage reminds me of my dad's photos from the Korean Conflict. He's got this huge photo album that has the most ghastly pictures in it from his service. That photo album was something that mom used to hide on a top shelf but my dad would (and perhaps he still does) pull it down and look through it. He would talk about his fellow Marines in the pictures - what their names were, where they were from, what foods they didn't like, stupid things they did. The pictures and my dad's stories made each of the men come to life.


About halfway through the album the theme changes from light hearted photos to post-battle pictures. My god, the things that can happen to a human body when it is struck by different types of artillary. I cannot imagine, nor do I want to, what that would be like to have been there. I'm grateful that the pictures are all black and white because I don't think I'd want to see what that camera captured, as it was, in full living color. I've carried those pictures in my mind since I was a kid. Most of us (my brothers and sisters) suffer from a vicarious form of PTSD along with my dad.

When we sat at the dinner table watching the nightly coverage of Viet Nam and they would talk about the number dead and wounded that day and the various totals since Jan. or the Tet Offensive (or whatever arbitrary timeframe that was used by the reporter to emphasize the point) I thought about how each number represented a human being. Then, as today, those photos in that album flash through my mind. I look up at the TV and see the number of the official death toll climb. I think about those men, women and children who are dead. Each one of them was a human being whose loss leaves a hole in the lives of those they left behind. So many promising futures, so many dreams unfulfilled. They didn't ask for it. No one in their right mind would.

[ptolle]

122. head down

I presume you're talking as much about the socio/politico situation as anything, but as an infantry vet RVN 1966-67 any illusions of up and atem over the top heroics seldom live through the first firefight. In talking with combat veterans from other wars I find that people tend to do whatever they have to do to come through the situation, sometimes it looks like heroics to an outside observer, but it's really survival. And I doubt that the current crop of ground pounders is any different.That said, it does in some ways feel like those days again.

[mongo]

8. Now that's what I call compassion for your fellow man

I'd be happy to let the Marine kid put some bruises on me if that would help . I'd even go a broken bone or two if necessary.

Wow.

And yeah, the tide is turning. I still have nothing but respect for our young men and women in uniform. These kids are just doing what they were taught was the right thing to do, and trying to better themselves in the process. But they aren't stupid either. Not so many signing up today as they were after 9-11.

It is us who have to protect these kids by bringing them home - and more and more people are realizing it every single day.

[ecoflame]

18. Yep - I heard Crosby, Stills & Nash

this morning and thought, have to dig out my protest music.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. A reporter on CNN on MOnday morning said

Joan Baez is in Crawford now, which means we have an anti-war movement on our hands.

[Arkansas Granny]

92. Absolutely some of the best.

Soldiers of Peace says it all. Check out the lyrics.


http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Soldiers-of-Peace-lyrics-Crosby-Stills-Nash-and-Young/BF1D9A2ADCBB7DCD48256D990024CF67

[Redstone]

24. Hey, a broken arm heals in six weeks, then it's done.

For that kid to lose a leg, or a life, that's another thing entirely.

I'd pay that small price with a smile.

Redstone

[merh]

10. Recommended.

Thank you Redstone for sharing this with us.
I believe you are right. More people stop me and comment on my bumper stickers than they ever have before (even before the election). They are trashing the stickers, they want to know where to get them (or how to make them like I do.) And I live in a red state! Not many GWB stickers around lately.

Thank you sir for offering to take a licking so that young marines heart can keep on ticking! :hug:

[BlueIris]

11. The tide IS turning, goddamnit. Seen AOL lately?

The kinds of things they're putting in their TOP NEWS section, plus the slant of those articles, are so much more left than I ever thought we'd see from that service, including pro-Jon Stewart, anti-Robertson, more than vaguely anti-war articles this week (a criticism of the tombstones with the pentagon slogans on them). I just...I never thought I'd see anti-war sentiments on AOHell.

[Gay Green]

15. AOL gave a small clue that the tide was about to turn a few months ago

When it referred to the Shrub's illegal war as "The War On Iraq."

[BlueIris]

57. Oooh, I missed that.

Hee. Seriously, if he doesn't have AOL, he doesn't have anything.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

80. That's what I've always called it

Glad to hear that it is catching on !!

When we first invaded Iraq my coworkers decided to sport red white and blue clothing and accessories to show their support. I asked one woman my age (a little younger than dirt) what she was going to wear during the occupation. "We're not going to occupy them" was her reply. Yeah, right.

Its a shame it took so long for everyone to catch up with us

[mermaid]

105. I Have A Better Name For It

Not The War On Iraq...Not Operation Iraqi Freedom, not The War On Terror...

Are you ready for it????


OPERATION ANIGO MONTOYA!!!!

[ogminlo]

158. Not to quibble but....

The correct spelling would be "Inigo Montoya". You killed my father. Prepare to die.

[mermaid]

167. Quibble Away!!

You're quite correct, of course. Nevertheless, at least you knew what I was talking about.

And, of course, Bush probably would've spelled it wrong, too.

[tallahasseedem]

55. I noticed that too!!!

I even commented to myself about it this morning when they had the article about the president guzzling gas with the tax payers footing the bill.

[jonnyblitz]

12. interesting story redstone and I believe you when you

say you would go through all of that to keep the marine from going. :hi:

[Redstone]

35. Thanks, JB. I put my ass on the line for my country once

(even though unintentionally and for a whole bunch of wrong reasons), and would gladly do so again to save that young kid from going through the hell he's facing.

I especially appreciate such a comment from you your ownself; I suspect your own service must have been a hard road, for which I have a great deal of respect.

Redstone

[jonnyblitz]

36. ha....i survived, it wasn't all that bad and it's behind me now

being gay and having to hide it for 10 years did get tricky at times..but it's in the past..thanks for the nice words. :hi:

[kliljedahl]

14. Re: the last paragraph

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Redstone]

16. So they're getting their little selves all in a tizzy. are they?

Well, they'll really like this: Guess what, wankers. I never go to your pissant little circle-jerk of a website, so you can motherfuck me up and down all night, and I'll never see it!

Carry on with said circle-jerk, boys. Hope you satisfy each other, because that's all you'll be doing; I ain't gonna hear what you have to say.

Redstone

[kliljedahl]

23. Just waiting, gonna chime in when needed

Looks like it might be fun.

[Redstone]

26. Keep me posted, if you'd be so kind. As I said, I won't

dirty my keyboard with a trip Over There, but I'd be more than happy to hear any amusing items you might chime in with.

Thank you, my friend.

Redstone

[kliljedahl]

28. I don't go "Over There" either

They should be here soon, I'm assuming. Pop you a couple of bags?

[Redstone]

32. You betcha. You pop the bags; I'll pop the beers.

It should be fun. Unless they chicken out.

Buk, buk, buk...bukAAAh!

Redstone

[tsuki]

17. I grew up, a military brat. It disturbs me that there were no Hoo-Ya's.

Marines have always been the first line. They can stand the line, all of them, from company clerk to CO, and proud to do it. What does this say about the morale of our troops?

[cascadiance]

27. I think it's one thing to "do one's duty"...

It's another thing to get one's mind warped around it to do the "Hoo-Yah's...

You're a military brat. I was an "overseas" brat too growing up in Thailand during the Vietnam War and later in Turkey. I just saw a VERY COOL film on brats the previous weekend (it was one of this movie's premiere showings) directed by Donna Musil and narrated by Kris Kristoferson (who himself was a military brat). Got to talk with her about it over the weekend too. Very cool lady!

It really goes in to the military family experience and how "different" we are than other folks living in the U.S., and how we represent a sizable segment of the U.S. population, and aren't understood very well.

If you can get to see it, I highly recommend it. She got a standing ovation from many of us "brats" who grew up together after the showing there.

Others, if you get a chance to see it later, do so too. It will give you a feeling of what it is like to grow up in the military. I noted that it made a distinction on how the typical military life affected kids growing up there, which was a bit of an awakening for me, since I grew up more of a "diplomatic" brat, which had slightly different, but many of the same issue with that experience.

Here's a link to the film's web site.

What was cool to hear was that Kristoferson donated all of the extra music he did for it for free, and just charged the minimum SAG rate for his time in the film, since he believed in it's purpose so much. Tells me a lot about his character!

http://www.bratsourjourneyhome.com/

[tsuki]

39. Thanks. Sometimes I feel that I am out of step. It is difficult to

explain to other how it was. That the "Great Santini" was just a Holly Rock wannabee. It is difficult to explain walking through an Anti-American, Pro-Communist rally to get on base, and knowing that contrary to stateside propaganda "we are not universally loved."

Blue staters cannot understand how a man could join the service, coming off a dirt farm in Ala which had never recovered from the Reconstruction, and feel the absolute devotion to the phrase "Protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic."

I grew up with that phrase. When I went to my Father in 1968 to tell him that I did not support the war, he answered, "I raised you to do what you think is right."

If my Father raised me to do what I think is right, do I have anything to fear from the Chickenhawks?

I shall look for the film. Thank you.

[cascadiance]

45. She actually incorporates clips from the Great Santini in the film...

They were far more expensive for her to get rights to than Kristoferson's stuff, but it still was very effective in laying out how military families lived.

The cool thing about it was that it didn't try to glorify those in the military, and yet it wasn't condemning the military either. It was a very real picture that people could identify with, and went in depth to the kind of problems that kids would grow up with in that sort of environment (how kids had a more difficult time dealing with molestation than other Americans did, etc.).

[tsuki]

47. Molestation? What is that about?

[cascadiance]

53. Sometimes military brats were victims in that environment...

And with the kind of command structure they had, and the attititudes that SOME families had, it was hard for kids to even acknowledge that they had been victimized/abused in what sometimes was an authoritarian family structure. You have to see the film to really get a good picture, as I'm probably not doing it justice to give one a feeling of what it was like for some military brats. But looking around the room, I could tell it was hitting home with some of the folks I was sitting with.

It also noted that many kids grew up in a lot more forced racially and culturally integrated environment way before that sort of integration was more enforced in our general society in the 60's. That's kind of an interesting social experiment in and of itself.

I really could see that with the lack of racism, etc. that I'd experienced there compared to what I saw when I came back.

[Captain Hilts]

76. Military housing was a great place to be a kid

Maybe the submarine force is different. It was a crime-free environment where everyone was kind of in the same income category and everyone's dad worked for the government and received government-provided healthcare.

Kinda like socialism.

"The Great Santini" was a GREAT movie. The way it depicted the family and their lives. He was a characature that I never met. But, again, submariners are different from marine aviators.

I wore my dad's leather flight jacket to the be anti-war marches in DC and attracted military personnel who wanted to talk about what it's like being military and against the war.

[cascadiance]

125. That describes a lot of military bases overseas...

And she kind of points out in her film that it was a kind of socialism, which made it a different environment than those used to living it over here.

From people's points of view that it was a "crime free" environment, that's the way ours seemed like too. I remember a number of kids that, in some cases along with their family, disappeared the next day, because they got caught doing drugs and the American MPs were given 24 hours to get the kid out of the country that was caught or they'd be turned over to local authorities. Anyone who's seen Midnight Express (which took place about the same time I was over there), knows the potential consequences had they'd stayed.

Still, everything seemed pretty "crime free" unlike when I got back to the states and recall going through incidents in high school were a classmate had his parents go nuts and do a murder suicide incident, etc.

Having talked to friends of mine over the years, and knowing their family breakups, etc. there were MANY things going on under the surface in a lot of families over there that just weren't heard about in public. They were covered up a lot more than they were over here. People are human, whether they are in the military or not, and many of the same domestic and other crimes that are committed here in the states are committed over there too. Except over there, where most everyone's linked together through parents' jobs, etc. things are covered up a lot more.

Hers and many other folks' experiences noted that young girls were abused, etc. over there, or kids went out doing other things that noone knew about at the time.

Even our group of kids there was an incident that I'd not heard about until recently during a reunion of them. The football team had been threatened by their coaching staff to be on time to get on the bus to return home to our city (after having a game against another DOD school's football team over there) or get "left behind". I guess there were too many situations where kids weren't getting on the bus on time.

In this instance however, all of the kids got on the bus on time, or very close to it, but the coaching staff themselves were late, and after the bus driver and kids waited for about an hour for the coaching staff, one of the more "trusted" kids talked the bus driver into leaving without the coaching staff to return to our base. This was a BIG brouhaha internally and they forfeited a subsequent game amongst other things as punishment. Of course this wasn't talked about at all much in public at the school, and was an example of where there was strong disciplinary action, but things were kept quiet publicly.

So a lot of folks there could identify with what the director was talking about here, and you could see in some of their eyes that some kids probably had similar incidents of abuse as they were growing up that were kept even more quiet.

If you talk to your friends from back at that time, you might find out that there were other things going on in your "crime free" environment too, that you didn't hear about.

I think seeing a film like this is important to know what your fellow brats went through, and for outsiders to see what was different and what was the same for brats growing up compared to their lives too.

I still regard my experience over there as being SO valuable for me to gain a perspective of Turkish and other middle eastern cultures, and not fall into the traps of being fed stereotypes of people over there to judge them, but judging each foreign national I've met since then on an individual basis.

The film notes that a common problem brats have is when someone asks "Where are your from?" and they have a hard time answering it with a short answer. Some have come up with "I was a military brat.". I noted to the filmmaker that even I couldn't answer it that way, since I was an OVERSEAS brat, but not a military brat, so that question was even more complex for me to answer than it was for other military brats.

And yes, many of us had long hair and wore fatigue jackets, etc. with smiley face and peace sign patches to protest the Vietnam War over there too in our own way.

[Flavin]

130. "kinda like socialism..."

My 20-yr navy father has a hard time with my way leftist leanings. doesn't understand when I explain that I grew up in the perfect example of a socialist system while he was on board ship shelling vietnamese and getting drunk in Subic Bay to forget he RRRRREEEAAAALLLYYY missed his wife and kids while away for 9 months of the year.

Medical care on demand, just stand in a short line.
Seperate, price controlled shopping.
(sometimes) Our own schools!
"free" housing (according to one's needs, according to one's abilities (rank)).
Crime Free Environment (ecept alchohal based domestic disterbances)
A 'village" to raise your child (bless the wive's club)

My Repug friends can't understand it either. It's not that they don't, THEY CAN'T.

Flavin

[Captain Hilts]

134. It WAS socialism, Flavin. And it was okay.

Our social status came from everything but money.

I didn't live in military housing overseas, so I can't comment on that. In the movie "The Great Santini" when those kids are shocked by the racism of South Carolina and the two eldest kids end up going to the prom together, it all hit home very closely.

[tsuki]

148. Now that you mention it. Most of my military brat friends are leftist.

Makes sense.

You know, I never could connect with civies. It wasn't until I saw A Soldier's Story that I understood.

[tsuki]

144. And we all called each other by our last names. LOL eom

[Redstone]

49. You're a true DUer and a true patriot, tsuki.

Your country needs more like you.

Redstone

[tsuki]

146. Thank you, but what this country needs is people that don't go

to sleep for twenty years, and then wake up on March 19th and say "Holy Shit. He's a Friggin' Madman." If I had been awake, I could have fought it sooner.

[Eloriel]

54. You're the only person I've ever seen who has validated the

impression I got upon moving out to a rural, (still) poor Georgia county -- coming off a dirt farm in Ala which had never recovered from the Reconstruction,


I sense a century plus of poverty, a century plus of political hurt and humiliation and resentment (all of it boiled down into resentment toward nothing more than a few "symbols" anymore, really), a provincialism born of the need for self-protection and self-preservation of the community (such as it was, esp. after the devastation), etc. The lack of education alone is stultifying and appalling in this day and age. There are bright spots -- it's not like this is the set of "Deliverance" or anything, just that if one tunes in, and I have, all this is palpable.

Again, thanks for validating my own observations.

[tsuki]

143. There are other factors for the death of the southern countryside.

When I was young, a disporportional number of the men serving were southerners. They had seen the strides the WWII Vets made upon returning after the war and looked to military service to give them a rung up. And remember, military service was an ingrained way of life in the south. Parents would sign for underage youths to join

Three branches of the military required intelligent tests. As the best and the brightest left these communities, it created a brain drain that, I believe, affects these communities today.

[Redstone]

29. It says that there will be a mutiny if bushyboy and them

decide to invade Iran.

So at least we don't have THAT to worry about.

It also says that the average intelligence of the average Marine has gone WAY up. They're thinking now. That can't be good news for bushyboy.

Redstone

[tsuki]

34. The average intelligence of the Marine has alway been high. They

once had to pass IQ test to apply. I don't know if that is true now, but I suspect that it is.

They are the Proud, the Few.

And I am most proud of them when they threw those Mercs in the pokey with a pray rug and a Koran.

[BlueIris]

63. "the Proud, the Few." That's what I say.

:-)

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

72. They have always had their "few good men"

yep...

Navy Corpsmen!


But seriously, I met more PhD enlisted in the Marine Corps than any other service.

[Captain Hilts]

77. The marines, like the sub force...

you have to be trained to be a 'marine'. Just as in the sub force, cooks, everyone, has to become a certified submariner and capable of doing the jobs of others.

In neither group do you have people only trained in paper-pushing or food preparation. You're a 'marine' first and a 'submariner' first.

The retired marine colonel I know thinks Bush is a total idiot and the Iraq War insanity, by the way.

[Agnomen]

19. Recommended

Thank you for posting this.

[smurfygirl]

21. same thoughts in my neck of the woods from my

fine marine neighbor and all of his marine friends
also comes from some Seals that went back this week...

Tides are turning

[Nothing Without Hope]

22. Your friends might like this freeway blog:

I found it at www.AllHatNoCattle.net, where it was credited to www.freewayblogger.com.

[WillyT]

25. Wow !!! - THAT... Is Great !!!

Thank you for posting that.

:yourock:

[seabeyond]

30. on olderman i listened to the soldier, pulled saddam out of hole

he wasnt talking agenda, he was talking wanting a job. olderman asked what do you think about the war. quietly matter of fact, he said, we should pull out

just the way he said it, and so many other stories from soldiers we have hear of late. i believe. i still want to hear these stories. thanks

[ElectroPrincess]

31. Thank you!

:patriot: :hi:

[RSchewe]

33. Fascinating story, thanks for sharing it n/t

[NoSheep]

37. You are MY favorite read on DU! Always in the same mood as I am!

:7 :kick: :patriot:

[Redstone]

42. That's a helluva compliment, and I appreciate it.

Redstone

[stevietheman]

38. Well, NBC News was talking "tipping point" tonight, and...

comparing Cindy Sheehan to Cronkite in '67. My jaw dropped.

[madmax]

44. Holy Moley!!!

They compared Cindy to Cronkite!? That's heavy.

[blue neen]

40. I loved your story, Redstone.

Oh, how I hope that Marine comes home and comes home healthy!

If any of you freepers out there would like to sign up to take this young man's place, step right up!!!!!!!! Come on now, we all know that you're the only ones in this country who are "patriots!"

I remember 1968 very well. It was absolute bedlam in this country. It also was the beginning of the end for Viet Nam. Of course, Bush wouldn't remember that--he was so drunk and stoned that he probably thought Tet was a shot you got before you went AWOL from the Guard.

Cheney wouldn't remember it either. He was busy scurrying from place to place racking up more deferments. You can never have enough, you know!

[Redstone]

51. Thank you.

Redstone

[Imagevision]

43. I might suggest purchasing ones own armor, thats for damn sure!

[Redstone]

46. I offered. He said he'd let me know if he needed it.

Redstone

[katinmn]

48. I do believe you're right.

People are forced to either side with Bullshitter or face reality.

I hate the division but it's the only way we will get some movement.

[gristy]

50. Yes, the tide is turning

The question is what will we have after the tide goes out?

A still-intact government by the corporation and for the corporation?
A bankrupt federal government?
A population largely in debt?
A population dispirited and demoralized?
A country divided between the Haves and Have-Nots?
A right-wing Supreme Court?
An environment sliding towards the big tipping point?

Yes, I am afraid, on all counts. :(

[Redstone]

52. But at least we'll have one thing: No more dead young Americans.

One step at a time.

Redstone

[gristy]

56. Yes

[wli]

64. you've got that one right n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

94. I hear you, gristy! Turning towards what?

Will any lessons have been learned? Will the pernicious 'establishment' behind the BFEE still be in place? Will Americans finally have realized that their profligate spending and consuming habits are dooming them?
"The answer my friend is...."

[Redstone]

58. Thank you, DUers, all of you.

I had started to think, after tonight's conversation with those young men, about April and May of 1972, and all the pain and blood and death, and had wanted to just go off somewhere and drink heavily and get into the state I was in during the Memorial Day discussions here, but you all have restored my faith; all I want is for that young kid to not have to do and see and suffer things he shouldn't have to....

Is that too much to ask? One young man. Can he be spared the pain and the nightmares, years on, when he is in his fifties?

If your responses are any indication of the way things are going in our fair country, then he may be spared. He just may, and if we're very fortunate, we may see a younger generation spared the horrors that some of my generation continue to endure.

Peace be unto you all.

Redstone

[w8liftinglady]

59. Can I bring my soldier son over to your house?

Oh,wait-his leave has been cancelled three times-never mind...

[Redstone]

61. Yes, you can. If he gets a break, he's welcome here.

BBQ and drinks on us.

redstone

[w8liftinglady]

65. LOL..I was thinking maybe a class three felony ;)

...but barbque sounds good ...thanks for all you do,man.

[Redstone]

68. BBQ, felonies, whatever he needs. We do "support

the troops" here, even if it involves addresses in Canada.

Redstone

[Strelnikov_]

60. "He's Gone Fucking Nuts Or Something."

He was already crazier than a shithouse rat in 2000.

Then he got full of himself, and a lot of people got dead.

[madeline_con]

62. "... bloviating bravely from Mom's basement ..."

Armchair warriors off to fail....

[Mr_Spock]

66. It's good to hear from the smart ones - they are always the leaders,,,

Other's will follow thier lead - and this is one instance where I feel it would be bettr for our nation if the troops simply said "you want it so bad Mr. Bush, you go over and fight"

[quisp]

67. having been a squid (in the Navy)...

I'm not used to attesting to the intelligence of marines, but....

they do know what will and won't save their hides.I hope this Marine

does keep his head down and doesn't volunteer for ANYTHING!

My prayers are with him.

[jbnow]

69. Does it work

to confess to being gay? How could they disprove it? Or are they overlooking that prejudice now?

Seems a better option then committing crimes, but crimes are a better option then going to this war.

[passy]

75. Worked for Jimi Hendrix...

[lonestarnot]

70. Redstone! You are optomistic tonight! Yeah!

:bounce:

[In_The_Wind]

71. The tide may be turning ... indeed. War is not the answer!

Thanks Redstone!

[Historic NY]

73. I pray it is so.......my friend just got "in country" for the 3rd time

40something USMCR 1st Sgt. and he was not exactly delighted to have to go again, after 2 harrowing tours already.


Redstone don't you just love the 101st Fighting Keyboard Brigade. :grr:

[Roland99]

78. "just keeping his head down and coming home with his skin intact"

Therein lies the problem with waging war for political ideologies (esp. ones that are decidedly partisan and imperialistic.)

Once the boots start doing the bare minimum necessary to keep themselves from disobeying orders while trying to stay alive, then the missions (whatever they may be) are doomed.

And what are the missions now? Scout, shoot, and run? That's all our troops are doing at this point. We have 140,000 troops (although, what, maybe 40% of them are actual combat troops?) playing Whack-A-Mole against probably 500,000 or more insurgents, terrorists, and general hoodlums who happen to fire back with RPGs, IEDs, and Kalashnikovs!

These kids heading over KNOW the war was based on lies. It was sold on WMDs and NONE have been found because NONE EVER EXISTED! It was all a fabrication orchestrated by certain members of the administration (pretty much all of them with PNAC membership or association) in conjunction with a criminal politician (Chalabi) and his group of lying toadies.

These kids aren't stupid. They are, however, fodder for further destruction in the name of the new colonialism: Capitalism.


Yay....America.

:evilfrown:

[The Backlash Cometh]

79. If right-wing kids are beginning to see that Bush is nuts, what must

they think of the Democrats who want to mimic him/

[ewagner]

82. A sure sign that the tide is turning....

Last night while getting dinner ready to go on the table I had the TV tuned to MSNBC in anticipation of Countdown, with Keith Olbermann and a commercial came on....

in the past year there have been a lot of commercials fo CDs of "Christian Rock", Songs of Worship etc., etc., and this was another CD offer but this one was for PETER, PAUL AND MARY !!!

The commercial was cut with scenes of their concerts from the '60s and a lot of historical footage mixed in.....

get it?

The MARKETEERs have sensed the change. They are equating what's going on with the vigils and protests to what happened in the late '60s and they are jumping on the bandwagon to cash in on the SENTIMENT OF THE PROTESTS! When the MARKETEERS start to cash in, you can bet there has been a paradigm shift....

[Kali]

126. Excellent observation

I agree. Hope all are correct here!

[mtnsnake]

83. The tide will turn, & people like you are part of the reason. Thanks!

Thanks for sharing that. It's that kind of support we need to hear. Oh, and I especially liked your "PS" to the freepers!

[eyepaddle]

84. Excellent post Redstone,

I have a younger cousin who is married to a marine--he's done two tours in Iraq. One of those was during the disassembly of Fallujah. I only see them at holidays and such, shich isn't generally the best time for the most probing discussions so we didn't get into much detail (plus I didn't want to push him inot what may well be reliving extremely traumatic memories) so we mainly talked about his marriage, Vikings football, stuff like that. On his own he brought up that he wass DONE with Iraq and would go to jail before going back.

For his sake I hope it does not come to that, but I think you are probably right, the tide IS turning.

[formercia]

86. I left the Navy in 1967

and glad of it before someone found that request I put in for Small Boat School in Treasure Island CA.

But then, I might have wound up on John Kerrys boat, who knows......

[LynzM]

87. Great post

I'm always glad to hear about the tide turning, and glad to hear that you are feeling optimistic about it.

BBQ and felonies, indeed. I tell Briarius that I'll bake him cookies every week if he needs to go to jail to avoid serving the Bush agenda...

[stubertmcfly]

88. tell him to utter these three words...

..."I am gay."

[RedSpartan]

90. Great story...

and the finest worded PS I've seen in a long time. Nails it. Well done.

[BlueJac]

91. Good Story

I hope lots of people read this and get the message, even though the haters would never believe it. Nice work!

[Wetzelbill]

93. I'd recommend he go fight a skunk or a badger rather than you

:)

Hell yeah! Great Post. All joking aside. :)

[Loge23]

95. and yet the regime drags on

It's great to read of these hopeful stories which shine like an oasis in our desert-like drought of sanity, hope, and truth these days.
I too know of military people & family whom do not agree with the purpose of this war - whatever it is today.
But yet, nothing changes.
Many on this board would agree that this administration is most likely the most corrupt in history. We silently watched as the repugs completely savaged Clinton. We all but silently watch as the extremists trash our country. We even silently watched this lunatic "declare" war on a decrepit country. We post, we talk amongst ourselves, we share our outrage and depression. But nothing changes.
We wait for Fitzgerald. We cheer Cindy.
But nothing changes.

[MADem]

96. Redstone you are a good friend and neighbor, but do not get beat up

by that kid!!! It will not help! The USMC will offer to punish the guy, and the overburdened prosecutor on behalf of the courts will agree. He will get three months restriction, half pay for three, busted a paygrade, and STILL go to Iraq. If you make a stink and say you want a civil suit (to try to keep him here, of course) they will invoke Soldiers' and Sailors' Civil Relief Act and he will STILL go.

Better to take him hunting and have some klutz 'accidentally' shoot him in a limb--that will keep him home at least until he heals. Or have some 'stranger' mug him, beat him up and break a leg...owch.

They are not even disqualifying positive drug tests anymore. It's that lean....

Your anecdote matches what I have been seeing and hearing from my pals who are still out there. The reason no one is saying anything for the TV cameras is simply a result of professionalism and discipline. In this case, with this war, silence does NOT imply consent.

[DinahMoeHum]

97. The Republicans Lost Iraq. The Republicans Lost Iraq.

The Republicans Lost Iraq. The Republicans Lost Iraq.

Say it out loud and often.

The Republicans Lost Iraq.


:kick:

[Saynt]

98. Yanks say 'wanker' now?

Sorry to be a tad off-topic...

[Teena]

100. Wanker usage

I think I've heard the term used more often by those speaking 'gangsta' but found it interesting to see it on signs made by young Iraqi men on the day Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad come down. They were calling the American troops wankers and telling them to get out - even then.

[don954]

139. the merger of cultures due to the internet & TV, not that its a bad thing.

[Redstone]

154. I've always liked that term. Along with "manky."

You Brits have some wonderful ways of expressing yourselves, and I'll co-opt any of them that I can.

Anything to enrich the language of discourse...

Redstone

[goforit]

102. LOL!!!.....I love your PS comment.

[mermaid]

103. Thank You!!

You tell them yellow elephant Freeper motherfuckers!!

goddam am I glad I'm not ten years younger than I am right now...I'd be living in fucking abject TERROR of being DRAFTED. I'd not get more than an hour's sleep a night!

Bush has gone completely fucking whacko!!

This is the next generation's Viet-fucking-Nam!! Thank GOD I was too young for the first Vietnam, and too old for the second Vietnam!!

Then, too, being as I'm a transsexual (male-to-female) not sure they'd take me. And if they DID....I'd worry more about getting FRAGGED than I'd worry about the "ragheads" as our Freeper friends like to call them!!

I'd be more scared of being the victim of "accidental" friendly fire from an intolerant member of our own forces...and that is really fucking sick and sad that I would have to feel that way. I'd be scared fucking SHITLESS of our own boys...if I ever got drafted!

[mconvente]

106. Great story

It's true. The people fighting the war, our young brothers and sisters, they know the truth there. They know Iraq is deadly as can be and that there's no hope in sight. Thank you for this story of truth.

[Imagevision]

107. Fighting for 9-11 was one thing - Iraqi's didn't attack the US.

This is Bush's war, thought of and planned out before 9-11 hit.
The kids going there now to "defend freedom" or see to it that the Iraqi people have their's is another ballgame.

WE were lied to going to war under the pretense of WMD'S by the Bush administration and some or most of the unfortunate soul's going there now are aware of this. Factor in that US. troops still don't have the armor Rumsfeld and Bush promised as more troops are blown to bits and pieces daily.

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[babylonsister]

108. Redstone, thank you for that story, and for volunteering

your services and body! I think anyone with a working brain would have to be against this unjust war; I hope these young men do keep their heads down and return safely.

[Sequoia]

109. "Bloviate" defined for Freepers

To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner.

That's my word of the day! Thank you.

[AngryOldDem]

114. That is EXACTLY what they do

Unless they are willing to walk the walk as well as talk the talk, then they need to shut the fuck up. It's easy to be an armchair warrior and yell about what **should** be done -- as long as someone else is actually **doing** it. To my mind, that is the ultimate definition of a coward, and Redstone nailed it dead on.

[RageFist]

111. I was hesitant to protest the war...

because I didn't think it would be wise to pull out too early. But, a childhood friend of mine (who was just shipped out last month for his second tour with the Marines) says that we shouldn't be there and that the Iraqis are friendly to their face, but behind their backs they are trying to kill Americans. Therefore, my definition of support the troops is now to get them home, or at least get * to draw up a working plan of action now. I live in Vegas and will be going to a protest on Sept. 24th (I imagine it will be a sister to the one in D.C.; if anyone wants info go to lvpeacenow.org). While I don't think withdrawing too early is wise, these guys deserve to know what they are to expect, or at least some benchmarks (as Wes Clark calls them) to measure "progress".

[RageFist]

112. I was hesitant to protest the war..

because I didn't think it would be wise to pull out too early. But, a childhood friend of mine (who was just shipped out last month for his second tour with the Marines) says that we shouldn't be there and that the Iraqis are friendly to their face, but behind their backs they are trying to kill Americans. Therefore, my definition of support the troops is now to get them home, or at least get * to draw up a working plan of action now. I live in Vegas and will be going to a protest on Sept. 24th (I imagine it will be a sister to the one in D.C.; if anyone wants info go to lvpeacenow.org). While I don't think withdrawing too early is wise, these guys deserve to know what they are to expect, or at least some benchmarks (as Wes Clark calls them) to measure "progress".

[Patsy Stone]

113. There is no doubt

it actually began, slowly, right after the last (s)election.

Now, the beat is much louder and the reach is much broader. With approval ratings lower than Nixon's at the height of Watergate, * has the least successful (p)residency ever. That's one for the books.

Keep believing and Never Give Up!

[pberq]

115. How about this, you "stay the course" people?

How could anyone actually believe that continuing the U.S. military occupation of Iraq is going to do any good?

Here it is from someone who has been there - and thanks Redstone for posting this!

[Blue Belle]

116. Usually, I take the "I think the tide is turning" posts with a...

grain of salt. Often times, these posts end with Condi, Rummy, Cheney, and Bush being handcuffed and put in the paddy wagon... and though it is a wonderful dream, the chances of that actually happening are slim to none. When I read this post and saw that it was posted by Redstone (a guy who you can count on to get the straight answer no matter how much you don't want to hear it and always seems to have both feet placed firmly in reality) it has confirmed what I'm beginning to feel it too. We are gaining ground in the anti-war fight. We are starting to open minds (as the polling numbers show) despite the full court blitz the media is taking to Cindy Sheehan. The People are starting to see the Chimperor without clothes... and its not pretty.

Thanks for posting Redstone. :-)

On Edit: Spell Check

[pberq]

117. And it will have to come from the people.

We can't expect any help from the Democratic leaders, who are unbelieveable supporting this illegal war despite the growing public opposition.

[ClintonTyree]

118. Oh, how I'd love to believe you're right.............

The tide may be turning, ever so slowly, but I fear all the damage will have been done by the time it completely turns. It's taking Americans too long to realize and ACT upon what we all know to be true. By the time they cut through all the bullshit and propaganda I fear irreparable harm will have been done.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy people are finally waking up, although at a glacial pace, to this maladministration that is ruining our country. I only hope it's not too late. I only hope another catastrophic event doesn't take place in the interim that spins them around again in the other direction. I think you all know what I'm speaking of, another LIHOP or MIHOP designed expressly to stem the bleeding of the bush cabal and gather Americans once again around the fires and drums of war.
Oh, how I'd love to believe you're right.

[kaygore]

120. My brother leaves for Iraq Tuesday night

There are three children in the family--two rabid progressives/liberals/democrats. The other, my brother who leaves for Iraq, is a Republican. He is the typical Republican, too. For example, the other week when I handed him the comics to read Doonesbury (which that day ribbed college curricula), he refused, saying that he "never reads that comic." I might add that he refuses to argue for why he supports Bush and the Republicans.

A little over a year ago, my brother had a great job, was living in the town he grew up in surrounded by family and friends, had two kids in college, had a great house one block from the ocean, and made great money. Then his reserve unit got called up. He was advised that if he reactivated and went active military, he would not be sent to Iraq.

Having been lied to, having to leave for Iraq when our dad is dying of stage IV pancreatic cancer (the two were very close and even were in business together), my brother still does not see the truth, nor do I believe (like most Republicans) he wants to explore the truth.

I sure hope he comes back alive and unscathed and before my dad dies, but at least he has drunk the Kool Aide and believes that what he is doing is the right thing.

[ClintonTyree]

157. Wow, tough situation.........

there's no accounting for what people believe in or why. I came from a strict, Republican family (my Dad was an elected Republican Judge) but I was the only one that was different. This was back in The 60's of course and I educated myself as to the Viet Nam War. Suffice to say, I was against it from day one since it was MY ass that was going to be on the line, not theirs.
Give your brother a hug and tell him to watch out for flying lead. It doesn't seem like you'll be able to talk any sense into him, but sometimes actually BEING there opens some people's eyes. Let's hope that's the case with your Bro.
Keep us informed of his progress. I'd be interested to hear what he has to say after a month or so in Iraq. Some people have to learn the hard way. Good luck to you and the rest of your family, and give your Dad as much love and strength as you can. Miracles do happen.

[kaygore]

164. Thank you for your kind words.

[savemefromdumbya]

121. VIETNAM re-visited?

Yes, even staunch Repubs around here are talking this way. A remote war appeals to the masses (in the same way as a war video game) until people close them are actually dying or have to be sent to Iraq where more people are dying? It's finally filtering through.

[JustSayNO 2 Sheeples]

123. Yet another Marine

I have a good friend who's now on his second tour, having just arrived in Falujah. On his first tour, he went with all the fervor and guts you;d expect from a brave Marine. He made it home safe, being told he'd not have to go back until, at the very least, "late 06". Now he finds himself there a year and a half earlier than promised.

There's a big difference in him this time around. He's no kid (and wasn't on his first tour). Once again, he's left his family and job to be sent to a place for a job that he can't publicly speak out against. While he did go back, it was only his love (and belief) of the Corps and his fellow Marines that he is there. That and you just don't say "no" when you are in the military.

So what's the difference? He won't come right out and say it to me but I can tell. He has related to me that he is "very nervous" about this deployment. He has asked me time and time again to "pray" for him. There is no confidence that I witnessed during his first deployment. There is no argument from him when I spew my hatred of the war like there was at the beginning. There is no talk of how heroic * is....

The tide IS changing.

[interview7]

124. great story

seeing similar feelings around conservative Indiana

[mvd]

127. Great story!

Guess Bush is going to call a Marine "against the War on Terror" next. :eyes:

[geniph]

128. Instead of having him hit you,

can't you guys just have sex somewhere public and get caught? That way, it's not criminal assault, they kick him out, and it's much more fun for all concerned.

[Redstone]

129. Oh, now THAT's funny! I did give him some coaching on talking with

an exaggerated lithp, but I don't suppose that would work byitself. As for your suggestion, well, I dunno, maybe if it would GUARANTEE he'd get out...but I'd have to get something in writing and notarized all to hell and gone.

Not, of course, to insult my gay guy pals around here (or any other gay guys around here who aren't my pals); that just ain't my cup o' tea.

But if I could get it notarized...

Redstone

[mermaid]

131. Gods, I hope you are right

with the picture, anyway!!

All blue, 2008!!

Fuckin' Repugnicans! Please tell me the country is finally waking up, and these assholes in power will be gone, gone, gone!

[Kurovski]

132. Most all of the real "crusaders" are of the stay-at-home variety.

Members of the 101st Fighting Keyboardists.

Like Rush Limbaugh their rectal problems are too severe, like the chickenhawks in Washington D.C. their minds are too beautiful for them to actually go fight in the insane wars they promote.

For the most part these crusaders use the world stage to act out the aggression and dark anger that consumes their lives. The smart and the sane would merely seek help to resolve such inner torment. Whether it be through therapy, the Church, or actual introspection and responsibility.

Mike Malloy often intones a name for the phony president squatting in our White House: "Crusader Bunnypants".

They are the brave troubled cowards of the Bunnypants Crusades, and their mighty tin-horns will not be silenced!

[Redstone]

142. The "Bunnypanst Crusades." I like that.

I like it a lot.

Redstone

[Turbineguy]

135. There may be other signs

I watch CNBC a lot (as a lefty capitalist). Yestrday when they talked about the closing of the Walter Reed Medical center, it was the accompanying video segment that was revealing. Instead of just showing some file footage of the outside of the building or something, they showed a very yound man in PT learning to walk on his new artificial legs. He looked to be about 22 years old.

Somebody made a choice to run this video. They replayed it during every news update the whole day.

[yardwork]

136. The problem is that the voting machines are rigged

Unless we so something about the voting machines, the tide can turn 180 degrees and it won't matter. The bush cartel has control of the U.S. and they won't give it up without a fight.

[petgoat]

137. "do something about the voting machines"

Exactly, that's Job One. With a Dem sweep in 2006, we can expect
impeachment in 2007. We've got the Bushturds on the run!

But they are highly motivated to steal elections to stay in power
because they know that if there's ever a real investigaion of the voting
machines and 9/11 that a lot of them will go to jail.

[Redstone]

141. Good point.

We shouldn't take our eyes off that one.

Redstone

[Deep N RedLand]

145. Make no mistake...change is in the air.

With the plummeting poll numbers to the MSM media being forced to show more of the anti-war side they would have ignored only a few months ago, it is only a matter of time.

Since I was too young to remember much of Vietnam, I have always felt I was born a generation too late, but the fight has always been there looking for a progressive outlet us Gen X's never had.

While of course I wish this war never happened, to me it has been a way of speaking out against the injustice I couldn't during the last overseas folly and I'm proud to be part of the movement that will turn this tide.

Great story Redstone...just sad that it's come to this.

[Redstone]

149. You Gen Xers are young enough to have the energy to

carry on the fight. We need you.

Go get 'em.

Redstone

[taxpayer2000]

150. I See Scared People

Hi, lurker here, this may not be unique but my opinion is that the media and the public are very scared to impeach a second president in a row. Clinton was impeached 12/19/98. Everyone piled on, it was the biggest media event of the 90's. It was a global joke. I think shit needs to get really bad before the media piles on again. We are almost there!!

//Kelly

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. Clinton's impdeachment was driven by the media

this one is being driven by the people

IMPEACH THE BASTARD

Oh and welcome to DU, here, have a cup of coffee and a donut, even if virtual. Make yourself at home

[Redstone]

155. You raise a good point. When an impeachment is attempted

for no good reason, it does indeed make it harder to raise one for any number of VERY good reasons.

You need to stop lurking and start participating, if you'd like my opinion; your thought processes tell me that we could benefit from hearing more from you.

Redstone

[taxpayer2000]

166. Thanks for your warm welcome ...

I must carefully temper my time here because I just get too upset. Like many folks I just feel so powerless. I am not sure exactly how to participate. I am not a whiner so I do not post a lot here. I participate in some activism but not enough. I frequently write my elected officials and I regularly contribute money to good causes.

I found that I have to narrow my activism down to priorities that are important to me. Sometimes I think that Bush purposefully creates high volumes of b*llshit and injustice only to keep his detractors confused, keep your enemies scattered across many fronts and they are much less effective.

So I pick the battles which I think I can make an impact, mostly environment, natural resources, and conservation. I know how to focus my efforts here. I do not know how to tackle The Patriot Act, perjury, coercion, and a zillion other Bush crimes.

I was in Toronto this week and every newspaper headline and TV news show led with the NAFTA lumber dispute. Canadians are pissed. Not just the talking heads but the people too. I got home to Chicago on Wednesday afternoon and could not find the same stories in my newspapers or TV news. And what I did find on the web was 100% white-washed AP clippings. I wonder if the Sunday morning TV pundits will cover it?

I wish we had "How To" guides or "Idiots" guides for activism. Specific relevant stuff targeted at busy people, lazy people, stupid people, or apethetic people.

How can I identify the corporate advertisers for O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al. without clicking through 4 or 5 web sites? (I cannot watch those shows so please do not ask). I want to write to the advertisers and tell them I recently switched to a competitive product solely because they advertise on those shows.

"How To - Influence Radical Right Wing Media TV" should be two clicks away from the DU homepage, among many other "How To's". If it ain't easy to find most folks will click to Brangelina, fantasy football, or their horoscope.

If it is easy to find and I have simply not figured it out, maybe I am one of them stupid people? Is there a site for people like me?

//TP2K

[Zhade]

151. "He's gone fucking nuts or something."

Almost the exact words my USAF vet dad used. He once said "we should have turned the whole place into a parking lot last time" (speaking about Iraq, during the first Gulf War), later he said he was proud of me for speaking out against the war, still later he said almost the same words you quoted.

People can come around. It feels great when they do.

[JCMach1]

156. If I had a $ for every optimistic post like this on DU

Oh, how rich I would be (okay that's the cynic in me).

The optimist says... it is about farkin' time people started seeing the light!

[buddha8]

159. good news

I think thats good news but one thing is clear to me. Bush will declare Martial Law in order to fully prosecute this War if he needs to. This is Not 68' and the bush-turd is not LBJ and the Congress is not controled by Democrats. We are living in a nation-state that is controled by facists. We have no free press to speak of. The level of mind control and propaganda is staggering. Bush will never change his course. He is an extremely mean,rageful,self-loathing,fear based alcoholic. He will ratchet up the War in response to more discontent. There is zero accountability in government and just as in Nazi Germany, the ones heading the regime simply change the facts when needed and most of the people beleive them.

I think comparisons to other times in recent American History are acts of denial. People simply do not wish to beleive that their government has already been overthrown and that they are living under an extremely committed and ruthless form of modern facism. Why could they think that if they read corporate news and don't bother to inform themselves? Bush is to Nixon what Hitler is to a cub scount bully. This is a much darker and more serious and irreversible form of disease folks, sorry. I lived thru Nixon. Back then the Media was all over him and there were strong checks and balances in the Congress and many,many liberal judges. Not so anymore. People Wake Up. We are living in the Garden of the Finzi Continis.

[raccoon]

160. Your post kicks butt! Depressing but I think you're right. nt

[SlowDownFast]

165. You are a Supreme Patriot.

To offer what you offered requires SACRIFICE.

The mofo's in the admin no nothin of this.

THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO TO SAVE AMERICANS AND SAVE THE COUNTRY.

...I'd take a broken bone or two and busted-up face to save one American, myself.

I mean it.

Jah bless you.

I mean that too.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

168. Well, my dear Redstone...

I don't often venture out of my beloved Lounge...

But I saw your story on the front page, and so I read it...

GREAT story...thank you so much for telling it as only you can...

I am starting to feel a bit hopeful for the first time in a very long time...

The Titanic is very slowly turning.....

:applause:

[Raiden]

171. Vh1 recently aired a great documentary of Woodstock

I wonder when we'll hit that sort of critical mass. I want a new anti-war movement, just like in the 60's and 70's -- complete with hippies and flower power. Cool stuff.