What if abortion was not a political issue?

[Pobeka]

I think the GOP would not stand a chance. We all know they don't actually do anything about abortion in congress because as long as it's an issue they can play the "values" card on the middle/lower class while the GOP elite fleece the wallets and environment of the middle/lower class.

How do we take abortion off the issue table?

One thing I've been thinking recently is that running to congress to make abortion illegal is because the pro-lifer's feel they have failed to get their message across to (mostly young) men and women.

But I have not yet thought of a way to make that point palatable enough that it would allow the pro-lifer's a way to save face while they turn away from the GOP.

[Cleita]

1. Of course they wouldn't stand a chance, that's why they use it to

entice single issue voters. However, if abortion were banned, then they would find something else. That's how they operate. Remember the stupid Florida woman that was interviewed some years ago, who said she voted for Bush because Clinton was immoral. I really wish we could give these people their own country so we could get them and their idiocy out of ours.

[Ken Burch]

6. We could possibly turn the idea of a "culture of life" to OUR advantage

if we found a progressive interpretation:

Say, that, for example, we were to call upon all Americans to reduce the number of abortions to the lowest possible level by supporting full funding for day care, federal aid for contraception, and a REAL war on poverty based on jobs programs(say, giving the poor funds to rebuild their own neighborhoods and start their own businesses and co-ops within those neighborhoods).

We could bring in mainstream Protestant denominations and some progressive Catholic groups on this.

The idea would be to once and for all call the right-wing pro-lifers on their "you made your bed, you lie in it, missy" attitude towards pregnant single women and poor women.

[Cleita]

11. Here's a statistic for you. Abortions went down during the

Clinton administration because sex education was taught, not just abstinence. If you don't like the idea of abortions, then give women the information and tools they need to not get pregnant in the first place.

[Pobeka]

21. Absolutely.

The GOP thrives on an ignorant population. The cycle feeds on itself in part because the more children in a family the less time there is to be fully aware of the news and politics.

Don't I know it! :crazy:

[Pobeka]

19. This has the right ring to it.

I think there are far more people motivated by the abortion issue than just the religious right.

And, based on my personal sample of Catholics, I suspect it's not just some "progressive Catholic groups", but a majority of Catholics that would vote with more reasoned intentions regardless of the official church position.

[eallen]

26. We need to start talking more about a culture of FREEDOM.

As the poltical landscape now stands, the Republicans have falsely claimed the of freedom, while actually opposing freedom on every political issue where it is at stake. You can't go to a Republican hangout without running into freepers who think they actualy stand for freedom. Look at that name: "free Republic." What hypocrisy!

Liberals would make considerable hay by denying freepers that false rhetoric. We need to point out that those who really stand for individual liberty (a) want the FDA to OK the sale of Plan B, (b) want individuals free to choose the manner of their medical treatment in the twilight of their lives, (c) want judges who will interpret the Bill of Rights and 14th amendment liberally in protecting individual freedoms, and (d) want women free from government control in how they manage their reproductive choices. Liberals own individual freedom as a political issue. We need to reclaim its rhetoric.

:hippie:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Mandate free healthcare for every child up to the age of 18

nationally and they will no longer be anti-abortion

[Cleita]

5. We should do this anyway, but why would this change freeper's

minds? It seems they would have more kids because they wouldn't have to worry about that one expense.

[Pobeka]

10. It's paying for somebody else's kid that worries them.

This is the "me, me, get your own damn money" crowd.

[Pobeka]

7. You really know how to cut to the chase NSMA

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

9. I can hear them now "Abort!!!!! Save on Welfare!!!!"

[jody]

3. Abortion is just one of 4-5 issues, each of which commands 5-10%

of voters who oppose a policy of individual freedom. i.e. pro-choice. Together they make up perhaps 30 percent of die-hard Republicans.

[Carla in Ca]

4. We need to stop saying 'pro abortion'

and say what we really mean, pro choice.

[JuniperLea]

13. Exactly!

We need to focus on the issue of choice. I really hate abortion. No, really. But I'll be damned if the government has a right to tell a woman what to do with her life and her body. And I really hate the thought of any child being born into a life of agony from birth defects when it could have been ended before they knew pain. That is what would happen you know.

It's like hating the sin but loving the sinner:)

[Carla in Ca]

36. That is the bottom line for me...privacy.

It needs to remain as one of several choices a woman can make.

[Ken Burch]

41. It wasn't US who were saying "pro abortion", Carla

It's the Right Wingers who say that phrase to caricature our position. They're not likely to stop saying it anytime soon, nor are they likely to stop saying "feminazi."

Those are the "phrases that pay", for them.

[Carla in Ca]

50. Oh, Ken, I absolutely agree

But I think we inadvertently use the term ourselves at times when debating this contentious issue.
When someone says being pro choice means you are pro abortion I try to explain that of course it should be one of many choices a woman has but should be used as rarely as possible.
I also try to turn the term pro-life back at them as heartless and cruel because they do not care if the pregnancy is from incest, rape or may cause the death of the mother.
I could tell you my horror story, Ken. It's a doozy, and you live with it for the rest of your life. I'm doing all I can to fight for this choice to be available and safe.

[Ken Burch]

53. I'd be interested in your story, Carla.

Send it to me privately if that would be easier for you.

[eallen]

8. 'Twouldn't matter. The religious right will find other freedoms to oppose.

The religious right don't oppose just abortion. They also oppose freedom of speech, freedom of religion, any kind of erotic entertainment, and even birth control. Don't take my word for it. Read this editorial from the Wingnut Daily:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45948

We don't need or want to split the religious right from the GOP. They are the enemy's base. The better idea is to keep the GOP as the party of the religious right. It's everyone else that we should try to attract to the Democratic Party.

:hippie:

[Karenina]

12. Life would be easier...

wit folks be mindin' dey OWN bidness, not stickin' dey l-o-n-g nassy, virus-laden, booger-encrusted noses far as dey can up womens' private parts.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. woot!

[Pobeka]

25. Snort! (and I'm not the snorting kind) n/t

[Ken Burch]

42. Thanks for giving me an image

That will take YEARS of therapy to get out of my head, Karenina.
JEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

[Karenina]

44. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:evilgrin:

[KingFlorez]

14. The way to do this is

To say that the Republicans have not done of thing about abortion since they've been in control and don't intend to.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Sorry, the urge to CONTROL other people's lives is a prime motivator

for millions of people in this country.

It's not about anyone "not getting their message out". We have the first Amendment. Anyone can get any message they want out. And it's not about "saving babies", either. It's about controlling other people's bodies, sticking their noses into other people's personal lives, and it's right up there with Baseball as the All-American Pastime.

After Abortion is made illegal, they will go after birth control.. in fact, they've already started.

[eallen]

20. Love that bumper sticker.

:bounce:

[Jade Fox]

22. Yes, what you said impeachdubya...

"panty-sniffing politics" is not about preventing abortion. Increased
access to birthcontrol and sex education would achieve that. Do you
hear Right-to-Lifers advocating those solutions?

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Hell no.

In fact, the HLA as advanced in the GOP platform for the past 3 decades would effectively turn the pill into a controlled substance.

Their agenda can essentially be summed up as, "Keep your damn legs crossed!"

[Pobeka]

27. Partly true, but the other 10's of millions don't want govt meddling

in their personal lives.

Young people especially like to think they can do anything (and can do just about anything).

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Well, then, here's a crazy idea:

why don't we come out as the party that says unequivocally that people, not "God", not "government", have the right to control their own bodies, period, no ifs, ands or buts?

I happen to think there are millions of socially libertarian urban voters who can't decide whether the Dems or Republicans are more interested in controlling their personal lives. When our party "leaders" pander to the religious right and pro-censorship forces in this country, it only muddies the water further.

I think part of the reason you haven't seen much action vis a vis abortion is because, yes, most people are pro-choice and don't want the government in their bedrooms. However, the pro-life radicals who are running the GOP are ready to start demanding payback.

And, frankly, having "young people" think that they can "do anything" doesn't worry me nearly as much as having someone like Tom DeLay or Pat Robertson writing their Christian version of Sharia law into our government.

[Pobeka]

33. I was implying that young people would be worried about Delay

et. al. That is of course assuming a functioning media.

Your other points are well taken.

I think that most people are pro-choice. I also think most people are personally against aborting a pregnancy just because it is unwanted (i.e. no health problems for mother or a deformed fetus etc).

And so we need to let them know that is where we stand as well -- but that also means we have to go down the education/contraception route and while that was once the territory of only hippies and free love it is now much more acceptable to most people as long as we are not "in their face" with it.

[Jade Fox]

38. Have you ever been unwantedly pregnant?

I didn't think so.

There are lots of reasons women have abortions, even though they are
healthy. To give just one of hundreds of examples: My friend's husband
left her with and 18 month old, which she had to figure out how to support
on her own. A month later, she discovered she was pregnant. Was she
supposed to bring another infant into the world she couldn't support?

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Well, where I personally stand is, it's not my call to make for someone

else.

In my mind, the only person who is fit to make a decision regarding a pregnancy is the woman in whom it is taking place. I have no interest in interrogating pregnant women on "why" they think they should be "allowed" to have an abortion... there are plenty of ways to reduce the incidence of abortion on the front end; as you say, through REAL sex education, greater availability for contraceptives (and universal coverage through health plans, too) ...although I'm not really sure what constitutes being "in your face" with contraception. I think most people would be satisfied to have their birth control pills filled at the pharmacy without getting a lecture on Jesus from the Pharmacist, but apparently (for many people in this country) just that simple request is too "in your face".

And again, there's a difference between one's personal feelings about abortion, and recognizing that women should be the ones with the right to make that call about their own bodies, rather than having strangers making that decision for them. Some people believe life begins at conception, but believing that for yourself and insisting that it be written in as the law of the land are two vastly different things.

[Jade Fox]

34. Some people have an amazing ability to not get that....

if something is outlawed, they will not be able to do it either!

Those who work in clinics where abortions are provided report a
remarkable occurance: Right-to-Lifers there to get abortions for
themselves or their daughters. They say things like, "I'm against
abortion, but I already have three kids, and my husband is out of
work" or "I'm against abortion, but my daughter is only 14."
Apparently these folks don't get that their being "against abortion" is
directly threatening their own access to the solution to their dilema.
(This is partly because the Right has convinced many that the rest of
us are having abortions for the fun of it, or the latest nonsense: that
women are using abortion as their preferred form of birthcontrol.)

Some people seem to lack the ability to connect their desire to prevent
the goverment from meddling in their own lives with the same right for
others.

[reBel_gyrl]

16. What message?

I am pro-choice with a catch, if such a thing exists. I am absolutely against abortion as birth control. I am against late term (I think they call them partial birth abortions.. I'm not sure though) abortions. I think it's a good idea for parents of minors to be informed of a request for abortion, though I do not think they should have the sole say in whether or not it happens. I do not think that every abortion should be allowed, nor do I think none should be allowed. How do we convince the right that we are not all anti American baby killers? And what's the message that pro-lifers feel they haven't gotten across to our young men and women?

[Pobeka]

24. If they had gotten the message across

there would be no abortions due to unwanted pregancies.

Simple as that.

[Wizard777]

18. A lot of PAC Rats on both sides will have to get real jobs. n/t

[evilqueen]

23. I like this bumpersticker I saw recently...

"Pro-Life? That's your CHOICE!"

[OrlandoGator]

28. I've said a thousand times...the RW needs abortion as their boogeyman.

If abortion were banned, they wouldn't have anything to rally the troops with except gay marriage. And people care far less about gay marriage than they do about abortion.

Banning abortion would be a LOSS for the neocons.

[Pobeka]

29. OR taking it off the table politically.

that's what I'm getting at. We know they won't ban it. So we need to take it off the discussion table by offering something else.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Here's the "something else" we've already offered:

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/media/pressreleases/pr-040421-prevention-first-act.xml

And (surprise!) the silence from the right has been deafening.

[Pobeka]

37. So ,then, where is the shouting from progressives?

Like you said upthread, we need to become the party of personal freedom when it comes to our own bodies.

Thanks for the great discussion. I have to go eat dinner and will check back in here later.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. You mean, aside from the 1.2 million of us who marched in DC last year?

I'm not sure what more you're interested in, in terms of Shouting.

We don't control the House or the Senate, so unfortunately sensible legislation like this Putting Prevention First Act doesn't stand a chance. And the right-wing war on birth control continues unabated.

[Pobeka]

46. It isn't the ordinary citizens I was thinking about. It was politicians.

So, yeah, aside from the 1.2 million who marched last year.

It'd be nice to see people who are elected and do this as a full time job start a little shouting.

[DanCa]

35. It's a bogus non issue issue to fire the base

The chimp wields all the cards in his paw. Why hasn't he done anything right now? Cmon the gop holds all the cards why the waitting game?

[NaturalHigh]

43. If abortion were not a political issue...

gun control would still be on the table, among other issues. Waving a magic wand to make the abortion issue go away would not automatically close the divide between voters in this country. Look at the divisions here at DU between liberals and moderates and then apply that division to the general voting population.

[omega minimo]

45. WHY DOES DU EVEN ASK QUESTIONS LIKE THIS?

:puke:

[Pobeka]

47. Because I thought winning elections would get more dems elected.

I'm crazy like that, especially when I think there might be an opportunity to win more seats *and* not have to give up anything important to us.

[TimeChaser]

48. It isn't worth the heath and safety of millions of women. n/t

[Pobeka]

49. Please read the OP and the discussion.

Nowhere does any of this mean eliminating the right of women to choose.

[omega minimo]

51. Your erroneous assumptions are stunning

and don't seem like Democratic or DU or Progressive values

[insane_cratic_gal]

52. Like saying what if homosexuality

weren't a political issue.

You don't think that the GOP hasn't already adopted Gay marriage as the wedge issue for the next 30 years?

Abortion is favorable among the majority of Americans, yet still popular but they can only take it so far.