A fundie asked me for a job

[matt819]

I know she's a fundie -- and I mean serious fundamentalist (I know where she lives and what group she's associated with). On the surface, this group has no particular political involvement - they really seem to be just fundamentalist Christians with what seems to be an emphasis on a literal interpretation of the scriptures. And her car wasn't covered in * stickers or anything along those lines. This particular group does not appear to be involved in prosyletizing.

I probably don't have a job for this person, though I suppose part-time work could be created if I was so inclined. And I could refer her to someone who may in fact be able to use her skills on a more regular basis.

The job itself is irrelevant to this post.

The question? Would you knowingly and willingly hire someone with these views?

[jobycom]

1. Someone with those views hired me, so yes, I would return the favor.

[Cocoa]

2. don't you have to, legally?

if not, then you should, if she's qualified. Discrimination based on religion is wrong, even if technically legal.

[pitohui]

29. she doesn't have to INVENT a job for a fundy looking for a handout

i say screw 'em

even if not a fundy, looking for an entire job as a hand-out is too much to ask of any except family & very intimate friends

asking for a make-work un-needed job is no different than asking me for cash out of my pocket

you ain't getting it if yr whole life is abt stealing my rights as a woman, sorry

[Cocoa]

36. she can do whatever she wants

but whatever she decides, it shouldn't be on the basis of religion, which is what her question is about.

[JimmyJazz]

3. You cannot discriminate on the basis of race, creed, RELIGION,

age or gender. You would be in deep shit if you disqualified a candidate based on their religious beliefs.

[tabasco]

15. That type of discrimination is very difficult to prove. n/t

Unfortunately, it usually does not place the employer in deep shit.

[TheDebbieDee]

31. Tabasco is right. The Justice Department of the Reagan

administration made it virtually impossible to prove that employment was neither offered nor retained because of discrimination on the part of the employer. The employer would have to admit to having thoughts of a discrimintory nature....and what dummy would do that?

If you don't want this fundie Christian in your workplace, then don't hire her.

I'm sure that the rascist Reagan administration never intended to allow these discriminatory practices to be used against Christian fundamentalists.......and that's the beauty of the situation!

p.s. If the shoe was on the other foot, do you think many fundies would think twice about not hiring you because, although qualified, you were not a fundy Christian? Of course not - the fundies are doing God's work!

[JimmyJazz]

40. I wouldn't take any chances in today's litigious society.

[skooooo]

4. best person to do the job?

I think that's really the only thing you should consider, but I'm sure some would disagree. If the person brought their views into the workplace would be a possible problem, but not inevitable.

[ultraist]

5. Discriminate based on religion? No, I wouldn't.

http://www.eeoc.gov/abouteeo/overview_laws.html

Federal Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) Laws

The Federal laws prohibiting job discrimination are:

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;

[Bluebear]

6. "I probably don't have a job for this person"

then it's moot, but you can't discriminate based on religion.

[Snotcicles]

7. I guess they have to eat too.

Depending on the type of work. And I'd give specific instructions on what was expected.

[tabasco]

8. I come from Maryland, home of religious freedom ...

so I would hire someone with no regard for their religious views.

However, if that person were someone who would be preaching on the job and so on, I would not hire them. But that is because of conduct, not religion.

[LeftyMom]

9. Is she a good worker?

I don't really care if somebody worships the FSM, if they work hard and know what they're doing I'd be glad to have thier help. :)

[Bluzmann57]

10. If they were qualified for the job, yes.

But if they started trying to force their religious beliefs down either her fellow employees or her customers throats, then I would at least talk to her. One cannot legally not hire someone because of their religious beliefs, nor should there be any hint of discrimination.

[Canuckistanian]

16. That's the key

If they can behave in a businesslike manner and not disturb the workplace, then why not?

[titoresque]

11. No

I think when you make a decision like that it needs to come from a good place in your heart, no matter what the decision is. I mean if I decided not to hire that person to be completely spiteful.....karma is going to bite me in the ass. If I decide not to hire that person because I know it will be best for everyone else in the office, including my own sanity.....I think I'd be pretty safe in that decision. Just my thoughts.

[politicaholic]

12. At least you know she wouldn't show up hung over.

:shrug:

[liberaltrucker]

13. One's religion is irrelevant

if they're qualified. Having said that, I'd make it crystal clear to her and all other employees that company time is for work, not religious or political discussion.

[Deja Q]

28. It SHOULD be irrelevant.

[Cleita]

14. My mutual fund manager is a fundie, but he's a pretty

decent man. He invited me to attend his church once, but I told him that if I had any desire to belong to a church I would return back to being a Catholic. He dropped the matter and said he respected my choices. He has never tried to proselytize me again. I think he really does try to live a good Christian life. They are out there you know.

On edit: As a liberal I also wanted to say that a person's looks, personal beliefs and affiliations, race, or gender shouldn't enter into hiring someone. You should only hire them for their ability to do the job.

[librechik]

17. of course

we are the tolerant ones who celebrate diversity.

[thinkingwoman]

18. I hired a fundy once

She was young, heavily indoctrinated, and immensely talented.

I was very nervous about the hire because the rest of the staff was opinionated, spiritual but not religious, highly sarcastic and irreverant, and prone to extended fits of black humor. I was sure that I was opening my biz up to an enormous lawsuit.

It worked out fine. I insisted that everyone respect everyone else's right to their own opinions. She personalized her work space with bible quotes. We personalized ours with things that interested us.

Three years later I cried when our biz failed and we all went our separate ways. I would hire her again in a heartbeat.


P.S. She's still a true believer, but she learned a LOT from us. ;-)

[Lex]

19. Problem: the fundies tend to prosyletize on the job to customers

or clients. Maybe this woman doesn't.

I kept getting prosyletized to by the parking lot attendant at my building--the first few times I was nice, then it got annoying, then I realized he was probably doing the same things to my clients when they tried to leave, so I complained.

I wouldn't hire a fundie because I'd be worried what kind of crazy sh*t they might say to people who call or come in to my office.

[Cleita]

22. I guess this would give you grounds for firing them,

but really you shouldn't let that influence hiring them. Many people do know they have to have a different face at the job than they have in private.

[Lex]

27. Yeah, I feel bad that my interactions with fundies have ruined

how I perceive their interactions with customers and clients.

Now, granted, I'm not talking about Christians in general, but fundamentalists specifically--those people act like they are under a mandate to harass people for Jesus.

[Carni]

41. If I KNOW a person's religion --- I am not hiring them

There is no reason for me to know what religion a potential hire is and if they are going to make a point to bring it up and wear it on their sleeve, then I am not interested.

I am not a bigot... I just don't think when interviewing, that a person should crow about their religious beliefs, unless they are interviewing for a job involving religion.

The job is a job and in a job one deals with people of all religions (usually)I don't want anyone that can't control their preconceived bias, dealing with or possibly offending my customers/ JMO

[hwmnbn]

20. This is why this place rocks!!

FAIRNESS is the underlying tone and message of DUers. The responses here demonstrate a decent and humane attitude toward people, even fundie types.

I don't want to go overboard, but that makes me feel real good.

[rox63]

21. If she was qualified, sure I'd hire her

Don't discriminate against someone because of their religion. "Do unto others as you would want done to you." Now there's a real Christian principle to live by.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

23. If she were a * fan, that would demonstrate poor reasoning or ethics.

[halsaxby]

24. Wait a minute...

Why doesn't she have a job? Maybe because she was so worried about Gay Marriage or Stem Cell Research that she voted for the party that sent her job overseas? Tell her to call Rush, maybe he can find her a job since the economy is "booming."

[jrthin]

25. I want to say "no,"

but that wouldn't be the right thing to do. And in the end, doing the right thing matters.

[pitohui]

26. no way, too many good people out of work

fundies are trouble on the job, everything from proselytizing to playing hate radio while they work

they had to ban any radio at my hubby's work because of fundies playing rush & creating bad feelings

too many decent people out there trying to survive who didn't create the mess we're in, fundies made their bed, let them create their own jobs

[Eloriel]

30. Religious discrimination in employment is illegal

Which means you can't take her religion into account if you're hiring for a particular position, or for promotions, training, etc.

[pitohui]

33. read the post, there is no job, this fundy wants make-work

the original post says clearly there isn't actually work for this loser, but the original poster could make up something part-time if so inclined

i say our hand-outs of time, energy, & caring should go to our own not to those who work to destroy us

no one here is god almighty, no one here has infinite resources

if inventing part-time jobs out of pity, give it to someone who is working against the shrub or for women's rights or for gay rights or against the war or for any of thousand other causes

giving money to fundies is ultimately giving money to robertson, falwell, & the rest

it is mortal sin in my book

[Eloriel]

45. I read it -- read very carefully what *I* wrote

there's nothing in there about what he should do with her request. Not one word. I STARTED to, then didn't.

[Im_Your_Huckleberry]

32. do the right thing.

[pitohui]

39. the right thing can't be inventing jobs for fundies

sheesh

we don't have a basic survival instinct

no wonder we get mowed down

read the original post, there is no job to be qualified for, the original poster would have to make something up!

i say such a hand-out should be reserved for one of our own or the money kept in original poster's own pocket or business

not such a tough call

they tithe, 10 percent of everything the original poster pays this person to do a make-work job will go into the pockets of the likes of pat robertson

we talk abt buy blue

we should hire blue as well

[lastknowngood]

34. If you do the right thing you will know it. I believe you should not

use political or religion as reasons not to hire, unless you feel they will be disruptive to the work environment. We all know when we have done the right thing and we know when we haven't that's the difference between a lib/progressive and a freeper we can admit the difference.

[longship]

35. If she's qualified, indeed hire her.

n/t

[DivinBreuvage]

37. Respect her beliefs. If she's meant to have a job, God will give her one.

Look inside yourself, honestly and sincerely. Do you feel that something outside yourself is whispering to you that you should hire her? If so, give her the job.

If you're not receiving any such sensation, God's plan for her lies elsewhere and it would be better if you didn't muck it up.

I know it probably sounds like I'm being flippant, but I'm really not.

[seabeyond]

38. Would you knowingly and willingly hire....damn right i would

why would i discriminate. i dont believe in it. if one doesnt hire someone cause of religious belief, it is discrimination, simple as that. people have the right to work and feed their family and keep a roof over their heads. lets hope we dont get to the point of letting politics get in the way of that simple right for all people. i know the right probably does, i have heard things, but i would never chose to be that person. i dont care what my battle is with the right

[Seabiscuit]

42. Would fundamentalism die out if employers wouldn't hire fundies?

Nah... other fundies would hire a good portion of them.

Hmm... wishful thinking? Gotta watch those thought crimes. :)

[porphyrian]

43. Fuck no.

Just keep her paperwork "on file" for a year, and you've met your legal commitment.

[Kerrytravelers]

44. It seems that there is no job, as stated in the op. However...

Should you make up work for someone? Well, it depends. Would it help this person get by fpr a few months until they find something more permanent? If you can do this with a clear understanding with the person (put it in writing and have them sign it) and it won't kill your business financially, go ahead.

Just because the fundies are cold, callous and out to get us doens't mean we have to treat them just as badly. Perhaps taking the higher road will show that we are the ones with moral values. It is a family value to help someone else support their family.

I know... I know... I'm going to take a lot of shit for this opinion. But put the religion thing aaside. If it were a liberal athiest, would your opinion change? If someone chooses to live their life in a fundamentalist Christian way, but it's not intruding upon you, then let them be. I personally have never cared someone's persoanl way of lving their lives, as long as they realized their rights end at the tip of their nose (meaning, they can not expect everyone to live as they do.)

You never know how someone votes unless they make it clear (either bumperstickers or telling you... or other visiable signs.)

I would be very clear about the expectations and then give them a fair chanve. They might learn about humanity from you... you never know what you'll get when you extend your kindness to someone.

[me b zola]

46. What kind of business do you own?

Seems like you might have to draw up a contract that would state that that she would perform her job duties, regardless of her religious beliefs.

Too many fundies are taking jobs and then saying that they cannot perform their duties. If she doesn't like it she should be working shoulder to shoulder with progressives to stop the invasion into our lives of people who refuse to perform their jobs because of their religious beliefs.

[SmokingJacket]

47. It's illegal not to.

If she's qualified, you must, and should.

I would. A diverse workplace is a good thing, anyway.

[JDPriestly]

48. Yes, Yes. Yes She has the right to her beliefs as I do to mine.

And she can keep it as long as she works in good faith, of course. I wouldn't mind her putting up her personal religious reminders at her desk either as long as she isn't pushy about proselytizing others during work hours and doesn't go out of her way to make others feel uncomfortable or guilty. Tolerance goes both ways.

[Douglas Carpenter]

49. of course - it would be immoral to exclude someone on that basis alone

Anyone who would is certainly not a progressive or liberal.

[Zenlitened]

50. Well, the religious in this country have SPECIAL RIGHTS.

In many instances, an employer would have to hire such a person, basing the decision solely on job-performance qualifications.

"Special rights."

Hmmm... now, who do we commonly hear spewing that phrase? :grr:

[immoderate]

51. I had a fundie supervisor.

She never spoke about religion and I only realized it when she brought her kids around and they were going to heavy duty Christian school.

I never worked for a nicer person. When I was having money troubles she got expense money for me from the company. She was extremely honest and hard working. I liked working for her. We never talked about politics.

She was one of those "good" Christians you hear so much about. I would hire her for a job.

Needless to say, if you've read my posts, you know I have no use for religion.

--IMM

[karlrschneider]

52. None of that matters. Does she have big tits?

:evilgrin:

[Zhade]

53. Absolutely, if s/he were the best person for the job. No question.

They have the same right to work that I, an atheist, have. Their views are irrelevant.

Of course, the prospective employee would have to understand they get no special treatment because of their particular brand of superstitious belief system.

But no matter how stupid I think people who take the bible literally are (and I'll be honest, I think of them as just slightly dumber than Forrest Gump), I would not discriminate against them. That's just wrong.

[Mutley]

54. I believe it is illegal NOT to hire someone

because they have an opposing point of view. Not to mention that this country was founded by men and women trying to escape that sort of behavior, and to act that way would go against everything this country is supposed to stand for.

Now, I would say that politics are to STAY OUT OF THE WORK PLACE, so I could at least PRETEND that person was not a RW fundie.

[VADem11]

55. If they were qualified then yeah

It would be wrong to not hire a person even if they had opposing views. It would be tough to get along with them though.

[bliss_eternal]

56. I wouldn't. Merely because I wouldn't want to be 'saved' and

it seems at some point, they all go there. :eyes:

Sorry to discriminate. But in this case, I think it would be self-preservation.

[wli]

57. I'd have rather serious second thoughts. n/t

[DanCa]

58. As long as they dont bring it up at work besides

there are alot of other reasons to fire someone other than religion if you just get to take the time to know them. :D