This Dem candidate can't win....

[janekat]

He's too liberal and outspoken...


“We went into Iraq under false pretenses. There was deceptive advertising; you'd be taking to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq.”
”We're taking casualties. We haven't made America safer by this. We've made America more engaged, more vulnerable, more committed, less able to respond. We've lost a tremendous amount of goodwill around the world by our actions and our continuing refusal to bring in international institutions. “

Compared Bush to Nixon in abusing his power to bully Congress and US allies. "This is an administration which has moved in a way we have not seen any administration since Nixon to abuse executive authority to scheme, manipulate, intimidate and maneuver.”

would consider cutting defense spending if elected, he said. "We are trapped in .....an endless occupation" of Iraq".

Supports University of Michigan's affirmative action plan. (Jun 15)

"We've found many times in our experience that it's best to use force only as a last resort."

”Why are so many here in America hesitant to speak out and ask questions? We're going to ask those hard questions. And in a time of war, we're going to ask those questions in the highest sense of patriotism. We are going to hold the administration accountable for its policies and results.”

"I'm concerned about the lock-up policy, the 3-strikes policy, putting people in jails and the way we've treated people in prison. We've got to look seriously at the American penal system and what it does when it returns people to the streets."

Full sunshine review of PATRIOT Act. (Jun 19)

Disturbed that we suspended habeus corpus for War on Terror. (Mar 23)

"we should be very reluctant to use force. It has incredible, difficult and unintended consequences, which we are once again beginning to see as we deal with the situation in Iraq."

Supports funding for all-day kindergarten

Establish 18:1 student-teacher ratio for grade school. (Mar 1999)

Decries lack of funding for No Child Left Behind. (Apr 28)

“The way to deal with Castro is to send Cuba American tourists, American goods and American farm products. There could be no better way to deal with this last vestigial form of Communism than to turn American business and American agriculture loose on them.”

Work with the International Criminal Court. (Jul 2002)

Invest 3% of GDP on development assistance abroad. (Nov 2001)

Supports ban on assault weapons

Supports universal health coverage

Immigration is vital to prosperity. (Jun 17)

I am very pro-immigration. (Jun 27)

The military needs to reconsider the "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gay service members.

$5T tax cuts for the rich are legalized theft. (Jun 20)

Supports redistribution by progressive taxation. (Jun 19)

Supports a "freeze" on Bush's tax cuts that have yet to take effect for people earning $150,000 or more.

Need Marshall Plan for Middle East and Afghanistan. (Jun 17)

We went into Iraq under false pretenses. (Aug 17)

Israel: bring in Syria and Iran into peace talks. (Jun 17)

NATO was the reason for our victory in Kosovo. (Sep 2002)

Palestinians decided to return to terrorism after 2000. (Mar 2002)

Solution to terrorism is not bullets but world community. (Oct 2001)

[displacedtexan]

1. sounds like

kerry
or
clark
or
dean
to me.
if the fix isn't in, one of these three could win.

[tlcandie]

2. LOL ....

:hi: <smiles and jumps back onto the KucinichTsunami2Win bandwagon>

:hug: :grouphug: :loveya:

[HFishbine]

3. Supports

Governemnt dosiers on U.S. citizens re: CAPPS II.

[Pastiche423]

5. Isn't that, uh...like....uh

against We, the People?

[HFishbine]

9. According

to some, it's for our own good.

[Gringo]

4. HA HA. It's Clark. Just got thru reading that.

Soft-spoken is more like it...

[HereSince1628]

6. Well I hope a candidate for President would realize that staffing schools

is a local issue. I know everyone says all politics are local, but minimal federal contributions shouldn't end up dictating local school budgets. 18:1 student to faculty ratios (which I admit are better than the 30:1 seen in many schools) shouldn't be up to the federal government, anymore than the patrolman to citizen ratio, or the alderman to citizen ratio of local government.

[janekat]

7. the get money from the FEDERAL government also...

n/t

[boxster]

8. I know the answer, but then I've been paying attention in class.

Hehe. :P

[SWPAdem]

10. Me too, me too

n/t :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Dogmudgeon]

11. _

_

[roughsatori]

12. Could you provide a link that he is for "Universal Health-care"?

I take it you are referring to Clark. Most of those positions are vague thoughts and ideas without plans and seem very moderate Dem.

I can find no quotes of Clark stating he would work to implement "Universal Health-care." I know that he once said he liked the military safety net and that all Americans should have a net like that--and that his supporters take that as "Universal Health care." (I do not.) As UH is one of the issues most important to me, I would appreciate a link to a direct quote of Clark explaining that he has a plan for Universal Health-care.

I have found it no-where, but his supporters keep making the claim so maybe I've missed it.

I, at this time, will not vote for Clark even if he wins the nomination. But if he declares a clear support to implement Universal Health-care I would most likely change my mine. Thanks in advance. (I am not looking for an argument--just a link to Clark using the words "Universal Health care" and a promise to attempt implement it--as his supporters claim.)

[janekat]

13. will try to do

n/t

[janekat]

14. Yikes - just found this article out on google about the Dems

and health care. Guess we need to really push our Dem candidates on this. You know how many people have lost their health care in the last year? This could really be a great issue for one of them to take up. I know Gephardt was pushing on it for awhile - but it didn't go very far. I'll try to see what Clark has to say.


http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/7/reich-r.html
"Democrats also shy away from any mention of universal health care because they still believe that Hillary's ill-fated plan of 1994 was responsible for the Republican takeover of Congress later the same year. Their memories need jogging. Hillary Care sank of its own complex weight--which also made it a perfect foil for right-wing demagoguery. But it didn't go down without a fight, and not without substantial public support at the start. In fact, in late 1993 and early 1994, a majority of Americans listed "universal health care" as the most important unmet public need and their highest priority for government action."

[janekat]

15. I'm finding all this stuff about how it's the Achilles Heel of politics..

I don't think anyone's going to have a "specific" plan in a campaign because they learned from the "Hillary" health care debacle. Everyone would descend upon it and pick it apart. Gephardt had a more specific plan - but then HE backed away from it.

This doesn't mean that they won't help to institute a plan if any of them gets into office. Congress will be under all kinds of pressure to work on this issue.

I personally read any campaign promises that a candidate makes with a grain of salt. I like to see what they DID in the past with regards to this issue.

Who are you thinking of voting for? Have you looked closely at Clarks stances of the issues?

I also like Kuchinich.


Wesley Clark:

Supports universal health coverage
Clark said he supports universal health coverage that includes preventive care.
Source: Jim VandeHei, Washington Post, p. A5 Sep 19, 2003

Does not support single-payer healthcare
When an audience member shouted out "single payer!" Clark made it clear he would not advocate that form of health care system.
Source: Johanna Weiss, Boston Globe, p. A3 Sep 20, 2003

Supports universal health coverage
Clark said he supports universal health coverage that includes preventive care.
Source: Jim VandeHei, Washington Post, p. A5 Sep 19, 2003

Promote good health through public health measures
promoting physical vigor and good health through public health measures, improved diagnostics, preventive health, and continuing health care to extend longevity and productivity to our natural limits. All Americans are better off when we ensure that each American will have access to the diagnostic, preventive and acute health care and medicines needed for productive life.
Source: Campaign website, AmericansForClark.com, "100 Year Vision" Sep 18, 2003

Healthcare safety net works in the army
I grew up in an armed forces that treated everyone as a valued member of the team. Everyone got healthcare, and the army cared about the education of everyone's family members. It wasn't the attitude that you find in some places, where people are fending for themselves and the safety net doesn't work.
Source: Waging Modern War, by Wesley Clark Jul 15, 2001

[roughsatori]

19. Thanks a lot

I support Kucinich, but I do feel the Universal Health-care is the most important issue that could swing me to support someone. Though I have money now, my parents were very poor with 6 kids. My father used to pull by brother's and sister's teeth-out because he could not afford a dentist. I remember my brothers and sisters going to school with swollen faces and looking exhausted from the pain. (My father refused to accept welfare--he worked full time but made very little money. Growing up in a trailer park I saw so many people NOT getting health-care.)

I have done volunteer work and paid advocacy work for health-care for people with chronic mental illness. So it is the issue that could gain my vote.

Though I have problems with Clark, I would change and vote for him if he wins the primary--if he declares in favor of Universal Health-care. I would just like the statement to be clear and a promise to be able to hold him to his word if he were to be elected. I am off to read what you have provided. Thank you very much.

I've made it out of poverty and have been able to buy my parents their own condo and get them out of the trailer-park last year. But there are many Americans who are poor and forgotten, children and seniors rotting for lack of money to afford care. I thought that
to refuse to vote for a Democratic Candidate may end up hurting these needy individuals--because the underclass is being put through hell because of Bush* and his policies.

Today after looking at the "jobless recovery" statistics I thought that I would not be able to live with my conscience if I did not go to the polls and vote for whoever the Democrat nominee is.

Some of us know we will eat hearty and have medications tonight, but under another 4 years of Shrub the people who can't will only grow in number. Thanks again.

[janekat]

26. I'll keep looking... I might find something.

Good luck. n/t

[roughsatori]

20. Gephardt's plan was not good

It was one of the "give money to insurance companies to off-set charges" and rebates to people who have paid for a certain amount of health-care. That kind of plan will not get health-care for anyone who can't already afford it.

And yes it takes bravery to come right out and say I will work to implement Universal health-care (meaning health-care is provided to every single American citizen--whatever their income, etc.) That is why I would be happy to vote for someone who states they will work on that issue.

[noiretextatique]

17. he supports universal health care, but

he does not support a single payer system.

[maha]

23. ?????

"I, at this time, will not vote for Clark even if he wins the nomination."

If you prefer another candidate for the nomination I respect that, but why in the world would you want Bush in the White House instead of Clark?

[roughsatori]

24. Not voting for someone is not analogous to wanting their opponent to win

I personally do not agree with ABB. I think it is an ethically bankrupt way to use my vote. It also indicates a fear regarding the quality of Democratic candidates that I do not share.

Read my other replies in this thread and you will see what it will take for me to vote for Clark if he wins the nomination. And why I am considering it anyway. He can trump my reservations. (Also as he gets more air-time perhaps he will do a one-on-one interview where he will state it was a "mistake" to have supported Reagan and Nixon.
At this time he has not.

I did not vote for Nader. I voted for Gore. But I do not blame the people who decided to vote their conscience and vote Nader. The Republicans stole that election by scrubbing voter registrations and other acts of chicanery. Some blame those who voter Green, that if they had voted for Gore it would have been harder for the Republican's to steal the election. I think that if Gore had not run so much as a centrist and at the same time did not run from Clinton and Clinton's successes he would have gotten enough votes, perhaps, to cancel out the Republicans thievery attempts. Instead of blaming people for not voting for our candidate I think it is more honest to look at what the candidate could have done better. (It is funny that some Clark supporters attack our members who voted Green--but brush off Clark's fundraising speech for Republican's few years ago. The past is obviously an excuse they accept for their candidate but not others.)

If Clark were to win the nomination and I decided to vote Green, and then Clark lost the election--I would feel no quilt. I have made my reservations clear up front. Instead of acting like I owe Clark (or any Dem) a vote, their supporters would be better off in the end showing me why it would be good to vote for him--which is what Janek is trying to do in her thread. Instead of a yawn to my question or implying I would be to blame if her candidate should lose, she took time looking for answers. I respect that, she makes her candidate and herself attractive. But I OWE no one a vote.

(Forgive the convolutedness of this, I am on a strong pain-killer for a migraine.)

[dfong63]

16. you forgot a few

Thursday, October 10, 2002 - MANCHESTER - Retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark said yesterday he supports a congressional resolution that would give President Bush authority to use military force against Iraq, although he has reservations about the country's move toward war. link

sept 19, 2003, friday - Gen Wesley K Clark is presenting himself as one of sharpest critics of Iraqi war effort in Democratic presidential race, but he says he would have supported Congressional resolution that authorized United States to invade Iraq; ... link

Sept. 18, 2003 - Retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark said today that he "probably" would have voted for the congressional resolution last fall authorizing war, as he charged out into the presidential campaign field with vague plans to fix the economy and the situation in Iraq. link

sept 24, 2003 - On the day of his candidacy announcement, Clark said he "probably" would have. A day later, he made a U-turn and said no, "I would never have voted for this war. . . . There was no imminent threat. This was not a case of preemptive war. I would have voted for the right kind of leverage to get a diplomatic solution, an international solution to the challenge of Saddam Hussein." link

sept 19, 2003 - "Mary, help!" he called to his press secretary, Mary Jacoby, at the front of the plane, as he faced questions about Iraq. "Come back and listen to this." ...

"I want to clarify — we're moving quickly here," Ms. Jacoby said. "You said you would have voted for the resolution as leverage for a U.N.-based solution."

"Right," General Clark responded. "Exactly." link

may 11, 2001 - ``One of the things I'm most proud of is they asked me to serve on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy. I don't know if you all know what the National Endowment for Democracy is, but President Ronald Reagan started it in the early 1980s to promote American values abroad. ... And thank God Ronald Reagan had the vision to start that. But I'm really proud to be on that. We've got to do that.'' link

may 11, 2001 - ``Communism lost. Now we've got to go out there and finish the job and help people live the way they want to live. We've got to let them be all they can be. They want what we have. ... if you look around the world, there's a lot of work to be done. And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office: men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condolzeezza Rice, Paul O'Neill--people I know very well--our president, George W. Bush. We need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in Europe.''

may 11, 2001 - ``And then on our own borders there's a problem with Colombia.''

may 11, 2001 - But it's going to take American leadership. And I'm delighted to see Gen. Colin Powell is working that problem actively. We've had the Colombian president up here, and I was so pleased that President Bush called for a North American Free Trade Agreement, because I think the ultimate answer in South America is to bring prosperity, bring American know-how down there, and let's build one great team in the Americas.

may 11, 2001 - ``What I found in people abroad is, they want to be like us. They want for us to respect them the way they respect us. Sometimes they want American assistance, especially if we tell them what to do, which we do on occasion. And on rare occasions, they may want American leadership. When they want that, they're probably going to want troops and police forces to go with it. We might have to do some of that in the years ahead. People have great visions and great dreams about America. And in our own self-interest, we have to live up to these expectations.''

sept 17, 2003 - Asked whether he had voted for Republicans along the way, Mr. Clark said, "I don't even remember." Had he voted for a Republican for president? "I imagine that I voted for Reagan at one time or another," he said. link

april 10, 2003 - As for the political leaders themselves, President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt. And especially Mr Blair, who skillfully managed tough internal politics, an incredibly powerful and sometimes almost irrationally resolute ally, and concerns within Europe. link

spring 2001 - ``But I am certain no new, unexamined correlation between DU weapons and health will be found.'' link

[noiretextatique]

18. randomuser did a great analysis of all the candidate's leanings

here:
http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=428332

please note: clark doesn't yet have positions on some issues, but overall, i think this is a pretty good analysis of each of the candidates.

[stickdog]

21. Dems are too liberal to win. Running an independent is the only answer.

Sound bites are sound bites.

[ieoeja]

22. Has anyone else spoken out about this?

"I'm concerned about the lock-up policy, the 3-strikes policy, putting people in jails and the way we've treated people in prison. We've got to look seriously at the American penal system and what it does when it returns people to the streets."


The 3-strikes laws are an abomination. And, yet, hardly anyone ever talks about it because they don't want to be charged as being soft on crime.

[janekat]

25. He doesn't have to worry about being seen as "soft"

even though he is very, very Progressive on a LOT of issues.