This is it folks...we are seeing the actual unraveling of the Bush Regime

[Rex]

I've never called one moment during this criminal empire's term as the one that will bring it down...but I do so now. I believe the time (here at home and around the world) is right, and that the house of Andrew Cards is about to fall hard.

[Section_43]

1. It really is

written all over their faces, isn't it?

[kstewart33]

2. Why do you think so?

I've seen alot of Repub spinning today.

[Rex]

5. A little bird told me.

I've never felt as good as I do about any other "scandal" since the Bush Regime stole the WH. I think their toast.

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Man,

I do hope you're right! It is certainly looking good, that's for sure. Now, if CNN will just stay focused. :7

[nomaco-10]

4. I hope so, I've been very...

pessimistic about the demise of this administration. Today's press conference gives me some hope. It's apparent to me that the media drives the politics of this country and they aren't letting this go. It's about time this cabal we have running this country was called into accountability.

[kstewart33]

10. Please fill us in

What press conference?

[Rex]

11. Check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=446715

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Go one step farther...

...the people that drive American politics are the people that own the media. And the owners of the media...very large and very conservative corporations...are as fed up with Bush as are large factions within the CIA, the military, and the DOJ.

The CIA wouldn't have gone public on the Wilson issue if they didn't know that they have allies in the DOJ and other places.

IMHO, this is just the beginning of the revelations.

[alonso_quijano]

6. I'm afraid they'll slime their way through

Between the stonewalling and the shredding, and the theocratic Justice Department anxious to spare God's Anointed President from any embarrassment, I don't think this will bring them down. It will take a Deep Throat, not only exposing this crime, but linking it to all the other immoral, unethical, and criminal actions of the adminstration, to give this one enough to stick.

[nomaco-10]

9. Just a couple of brave, honest people ...

coming forward that aren't afraid of BFEE. It remains to be seen if this will be swept under the carpet or brought out in to the open, but you have to wonder, how much more bushco can take?

[doh_phooey]

16. Slime, you're on candid-ape camera?

If anyone remembers the old and original reality show (with Peter Funt and Suzanne Somers).

http://www.geocities.com/theg0op/

:P

[BrotherBuzz]

29. I'm really old...

I grew up watching Candid Camera with its original host, Alan Funt, Peter's father.

[boxster]

7. While this is a big deal, I fear that the short attention span

of the American public may make this a non-issue by November '04.

[cms424]

41. yes, this will be old news

by the time the election rolls around.

[Cha]

8. I've been out. What is the defining moment? Por Favor?

[Rex]

13. For me it is that the CIA is going at this one with both barrels

That Tenet actually asked for a probe is a good sign. For another, watching the WH press sec's face as the press core GRILL him from one end to another. They smell it, especially the older journalists (who were around during Whitewater & Watergate). The young ones don't know it yet, but they smell blood too, I don't think the DoJ will be able to hold on to this one. There will be an independant council (and the Dems will have a field day, just you wait) - I mean we are talking about TREASON here, oh yeah and an election cycle is coming up...such perfect timing. Something even Joe Sixpack can store away into long term memory.

Lemme ask you - how many youngins know who Herbert Hoover is, probably not a lot. Now ask them who Benedict Arnold was, traitorism is something that is remembered for along time in the US.

[sexybomber]

26. but DoJ is an executive department.

They answer to the White House. Why would A$$kroft authorize an investigation of his master? It doesn't make any sense.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. Why would Ashcroft authorize an investigation? Easy.

So he can control it & ensure a whitewash. Remember that the FBI is also part of DOJ.

[scottxyz]

37. Benedict Arnold

Lemme ask you - how many youngins know who Herbert Hoover is, probably not a lot. Now ask them who Benedict Arnold was, traitorism is something that is remembered for along time in the US.

That's an excellent observation.

[Brotherjohn]

15. I'd say the fact that a criminal investigation of the WH has been launched

... at a time when Bush is already at his lowest approval rating ever, and already under attack on numerous fronts (Iraq quagmire, WMD lies, economy, deficit).

Even if Justice does a sham investigation and finds "no wrong-doing", the Bush admin will come out of this looking so bad that they'll be lucky if they get 40% in the next election.

[Nlighten1]

12. Don't get your hopes up...

Iran/Contra anyone?

[Rex]

14. Yeah, I will admit I could be totally wrong...but I just got that feeling

that this is it!

[Raenelle]

17. It gives me hope that the CIA seems to be gunning for the WH

If it were just Dems or media sharks, I'd be doubtful. Either of those can be put off by a couple of brush-back pitches. But the CIA seems to have decided to go toe-to-toe with, if not Chimpy himself, at least his coterie of neocons. And the CIA is a little tougher than Daschle or Zahn.

[Rex]

18. I'm betting they have the goods on El Chimpo

I mean, you don't take on Rove & Cheney unless you have a "smoking gun". The question will be - will the CIA play ball with the WH or will they say "screw it" and go for the throat?

This is gonna take time (investigation), but I think this is the big one!

[NoKingGeorge]

24. The CIA asked for this 3 months ago.

Now they are asking for Justice to look at it again. What makes anyone think the CIA is in an uproar about this? It seems more to me that seeing as how George the first is the leader of the CIA, that he is coordinating these moves. The question is why.
I don't thing George the first will permit assman to invoke the Patriot Act, an Act that should come into play when we are talking about investigating something that compromises the war on terror.
The CIA earned the reputation for cold and ruthless allegiance, they were are not known for that quality by accident. These boys are the royal straight flush of any game.

[spindoctor]

35. Well said!

Let's also not forget that if Plame was indeed outed out of revenge, that the CIA is a bad body to piss off. If "the" CIA decided to pick up that glove, then there would be no need for any investigation, because the responsible party would now be replacing Jimmy Hoffa as a sex slave in Southern Tajikistan.

Then again, maybe the CIA simply isn't all it cracked itself up to be?

[AndyTiedye]

19. They might do a "Z"

[jobycom]

20. Again?

He's unravelled at least once every two months since being appointed. Every time is supposed to be the definitive one. This one won't matter. Worst case he'll fire Rove and move on. Probably they'll just fire some underling somewhere, or blame it on Clinton, and the media will watch the next hurricane.

Don't forget this whole story followed closely on the heels of his own party's Congressional investigation claiming he had used old and misleading information to invade Iraq. I still think this current scandal was planned to distract from that one. Bush can get out of this by firing Rove, worst case, and he'll be clean. The other scandal touched him directly, so he diverted attention to this one, where he can symbolicly fire Rove and look like the hero. Classic Bush/Rove strategy. Rove will join a think tank make a huge income, and do consultant work for Bush's campaign behind the scenes.

No magic wand. Bush won't just go away. Someone will have to beat him.

I hope I'm wrong, needless to say.

[Rex]

23. One problem with that - Rove knows where the bodies are buried

and he's crazy enough to let everyone know about it if they fire him. This won't end without bloodshed IMO.

[Brian Sweat]

25. One way or the other

Rove is going to stick his head out over the plate and take on for the team. The CIA is not going to call off the dogs until he is gone. If he doesn't go quietly, he will go very quietly.

[jobycom]

31. Rove buried the bodies, and he pulls the strings

He won't reveal where they are buried, because he'll pay the highest price for it. And besides, he's more of a leader in this administration than is recognized. Bush can't fire him unless he orders Bush to fire him. You'd find Bush's body before Rove's.

But Rove can let himself be ritually sacrificed without it much interfering with his power. He can be just as powerful behind the scenes, and probably have even more leeway than he does now. He knows that he can still control Bush from a greater distance, but he can't have any power unless his puppet stays in office. So he'll step back before he lets Bush fall.

You are seeing him as a powerful ally of Bush. I am seeing him as mind that runs the Bush body. Rove can survive his own death. Rove only dies politically if Bush dies politically, so Rove will sacrifice himself to keep Bush alive. His real power is through Bush.

IF Rove is truly removed from the picture, that will be a complete coup, and will mean that there is a different hand in the Bush sock puppet.

[dkamin]

32. wrong

these scandals hurt him, in the same way that Clinton's "scandals" hurt him, by dropping his popularity, occupying his political capital and increasing his reputation as a liar/wrongdoer.

the difference, of course, being that the Bushies have committed very real criminal acts, whereas the Clintons committed only fictitious criminal acts.

[jobycom]

40. Not really

No one in politics expects the other side to like them. If the other side does, it means they are ineffectual. Clinton had a 38% approval rating at his two year mark. After the impeachment scandal, he had an approval rate in the 60s. It didn't hurt him. He won reelection easily, and he got about as much as could be expected out of the Republican Congress. His scandals made his opponents hate him more, but it didn't change many of his supporters' minds.

Same with Bush. We hate him more, they love him a little less, maybe. They'll still vote for him in November. Those in the middle will make up their mind on who is the best candidate, not the worst. Bush can be hated and still win easily if none of our candidates are more appealing.

So no, barring actual proof of criminal wrongdoing linked directly to Bush, this scandal won't have much of an effect. It will even backfire if we get so smug that Bush is in trouble that we begin to assume we've beaten him before we even start campaigning. Ask Gore or Ann Richards about that. Or Gingrich, who made the same assumption about Clinton several times (not in a head-to-head election, obviously).

We will only beat Bush if we somehow find a candidate who can convince a majority of people that our vision for America is more likely to make them happy and safe than Bush's vision. Otherwise, they'll vote for the known evil, even if they think he's flawed. None of our ranting about how bad Bush really is will make a difference.

[Selwynn]

33. Agreed. You stated that well - thanks.

[Brian Sweat]

21. While I think the people who are convinced that this issue

will just fade away because Republicans have superhuman political skills are suffering from a type of pessimism that borders on mental illness, I think you are being a little overly optimistic.

This issue will take down someone high in the Bush administration, but Bush will survive it. At least until next November. It will have a very negative effect on his job approval.

[Beetwasher]

38. Honestly, I'm not even entirely convinced that someone will

be taken down. However, it will, IMO, almost certainly have a very negative effect on the admin. It could be the beginning of the end, especially since I believe the CIA still has some tricks up their sleeves. I guess I'm just hedging my bets...I'm not overly confident, however, I am encouraged...

[LevChernyi]

22. maybe..

I doubt very much that any of those tape recorders still float around the Oval Office.

I think they may get away with sacrificing some low level Rove minions who will fall on their sword for a presidential pardon.

[neverforget]

27. I hope they won't be able to evade this, but I don't have the

optimistic attitude for it. Remember Kenny Boy Lay? Neither does the American public. Good pal of Bush is off the hook or, at the least, has not been prosecuted for his misdeeds. :grr: :argh:

[Selwynn]

30. Yeah right...

With 52% of people polled on MSNBC saying that the think this is a witch hunt and politically motivated, I don't think the Administration has that much to worry about -- public outcry just isn't there.

Without an independant investigator, nothing will come of it.

The whole thing will be swept under the rugs and ignored in a week by the major media. There is no "smoking gun" of any kind that the entire public (and not just desparate for anything liberals like us) would see as the clinching decisive factor.

And if I haven't made you angry enough yet, how about this: I predict a Bush victory in 2004 - yes, I believe there is going to be some amazing jaw dropping around here when he does it again. I still consider us to be the extreme underdogs in this election.

I hope I'm wrong about everything.

[West Coast Democrat]

34. Selwynn, Look at this MSNBC Poll

Should an independent counsel investigate allegations of White House involvement in leaking the name of a CIA agent?
* 79423 responses
Yes, the Justice Department can't be trusted to be impartial.
64%
No, the Justice Department can do an honest job.
33%
Can't decide
3%

[monobrau]

39. See: Iran Contra

I hope heads roll, but Iran COntra was an incredible betrayal of trust and violated numerous laws. Saint Ronnie came out without a scratch.