Has DU matured any since you have been here?

[kentuck]

Has the debate and discussion evolved into something productive for ourselves and hopefully for other readers? Are we growing into something that could be beneficial in ways we don't yet recognize or cannot explain? Does the competition of ideas create a certain truth? Or is DU just another discussion board?

[DanCa]

1. I dont know about DU but I have.

Alot of stuff used to bug me. Now I am able to just ignore it our hide the thread.

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. I've been around a long time, kentuck....

and I don't think it has matured at all. Lately, I have found it to be repetitive.

:shrug:

[proud patriot]

4. I have to agree with you there greatauntoftriplets

:hug:

[greatauntoftriplets]

26. I know....

:hug: back at you.

Yet I cannot stay away.

[proud patriot]

33. me neither

:shrug:

[greatauntoftriplets]

35. I met my love here....

He no longer posts, but....I have a sentimental attachment.

[hunter]

27. I stay away from old crap topics, except in the Lounge.

A lot of the old crap in the Lounge is still some pretty good crap.




(Matcom's new ass on crack makes me laugh.)

[greatauntoftriplets]

31. So do I....

Most of my posts these days are in the Lounge. But it bothers me.

[proud patriot]

34. That's matcom's original ass crack

:patriot:

[hunter]

40. Original ass crack squared.

:silly:

[merh]

3. My answer would be yes.

Why else would all the freepers spend so much time hiding out here and trying their best to cause flame wars. Why else would the likes of "that site that can't be named" even exist. They spend 90% of their time ridiculing DU and trying to get DUers banned.

Others fear our efforts and we are more than just a "discussion board". Of course, all of this is just my humble opinion. :hi:

[LoZoccolo]

5. No, it's even worse than during the primaries.

At least people were discussion a decision of consequence rather than just making themselves feel good or clever or powerful or vented.

[fishnfla]

6. Lets see: I took my obese ass out of my McMansion for a ride to WalMart

in my SUV hoping that hurricanes continue to wipe out red states.

Oh, and turn on CNN, now!

Yes the topics here run real deep......

[mike_c]

7. I certainly think DU is more than "just another discussion board...."

As for it maturing, that's hard to say. It has changed in some ways. I miss a number of the posters who were here a lot in the early days and who have either departed or who rarely post these days. Some of the early raw character of DU was smoothed over when they left, but at some cost to the quality of the debate, I think. There was more of both a free-for-all feeling AND a sense of community, at least for me. A lot of those folks left during the post-primary Dean pograms. On the other hand, there are lots of folks that have brought new perspectives to DU, so it has changed. I DEFINITELY think it has improved since the 2004 primaries and election. It borderline sucked in those days, IMO.

[Karmadillo]

15. Nice post.

It's too bad we can't go back in time and head off the post-primary Dean bannings, departures etc. Something got broken that has yet to be fixed. And you're absolutely right about the early days. Some of the debates really were extraordinary. Kind of like getting seminars for free.

[mike_c]

22. "like getting seminars for free...."

That's exactly how I would have expressed it if I'd thought of the phrase first. :toast:

I've always been exceedingly liberal, but until the early days after 2000 I was fairly apolitical and not particularly well informed about political matters. Those early days on DU gave me quite an education.

[Kerebos]

8. ...

I'm new here so not really in a position to answer fully but here goes anyway.

"the competition of ideas"

Reading DU for about a year before posting I noticed that the competition of ideas exists only among 1000+ posters. Anyone with less than 200 posts challenging the status quo is viscously attacked by the self appointed DU police until other senior members step up to defend the position of the newbie.

Then discussion usually ends. The trusted member doesn't have his similar ideas challenged.

Also, there seems to be a conventional wisdom that discourages discussing strategy. Cindy as an example is off limits. No discussion on tactics or strategy is allowed. Instead one must keep it to themselves and are told that Cindy knows best, or that those discussions are inappropriate or suspicious.

[LoZoccolo]

13. You can actually talk about quite a bit...

...you just have to not care about the people trying to shout you down or use goofy tactics. I think I've only had a post locked or deleted for like, "ideological" reasons once or twice. But yeah, ignore the people who try to intimidate you (you don't even really have to use the list to do this), or treat them as entertainment (there's this one person I'll like, never put on ignore despite having probably over 450 people on my list because she comes off so hilarious trying to be intimidating), and just go ahead. If no one's listening, you've said your thing, and you can move on.

[Kerebos]

17. Thank you

Godd advice indeed.

[LoZoccolo]

21. Another thing to do is...

...get involved with your local Democratic Party. Not so much the periphery like MoveOn or Democracy For America, though I think they have their place and it's fine if you do, but get involved with the actual Democratic Party first. You'll find that the people who actually have to get involved in actually getting things done, rather than talking about all this stuff in theory behind their keyboard, have a much different, more realistic perspective generally.

If you're in Illinois, a good place to start is Illinois Dem Net! The link is in my signature. It basically points out opportunities to get involved.

[rosesaylavee]

29. Just want to add my two cents

I live in Illinois but in a decidedly red county. To give you an idea how red, our ballots usually reflect several races with only one candidate running for office - Republican.

DU may not be what it once was for those who have been around for years but for a newbie like me... its a frigging breath of fresh air to openly discuss what must seem mundane to the rest of you.

I like the humor. I like the every day community drivel. I like the rants about what is going on. If it is repetitive, I find another thread.

My only criticism - collectively - is that there needs to be more humility and more willingness to laugh at ourselves and the BushCo. There is great power in laughing... don't underestimate it.

Times right now are absurd. Enjoy the small stuff...

[AgadorSparticus]

43. I think you expressed sentiments that,I think, many feel but will not

say out loud. Short of joining the in groups so that you can be "vouched" for, everything you say is suspect. And how many times can you be insinuated a freeper before you give up? Maybe that's why many have opted to just not post anymore. But I do feel like the level of discussion has gone down since the primaries.

Nice post, Kerebos.

[QC]

9. No. It has devolved.

I think the pain of the last election, along with everything else, has unhinged a lot of people. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic, but I think that DU used to be a lot more informative--and civil--than it is now.

[democrank]

10. kentuck...

I always enjoy your posts. Thanks.

DU has a certain character I`ve not found anywhere else. Lots of bright, creative people here...and plenty of humor.

Some days I`m really touched by our compassion, other days I`m inspired by members` ideas. I love the give and take, the back and forth, sharing information. In addition, I can always count on members posting important news stories. If something big is happening, I come here first.

One of the best examples of Duers pulling together is the Camp Casey story. I love this place.

[MuseRider]

12. What you said.

I was going to post something much the same. I don't think it has matured but that is what I love about it. There is something for everyone and sometimes you get your best ideas reading things that don't seem to come from well reasoned thoughts.

The best thing about this place for me besides the wonderful, bright people who inhabit it is that I have the knowledge to speak out, the sources to support what I say, the battle hardened personality to face up to those who will yell and call names without falling apart. I have learned so much here.

[Guy Fawkes]

11. No, it's gotten worse.

Civility has definitely gone way down.

[mike_c]

23. piss off, you negative wanker....

:hi:

Oh dear, I think my meds are beginning to kick in.

[Boomer]

14. That may be an unrealistic expectation

There is only so much "maturation" that any online community can undergo. I've taken an active part in small, medium and large online communities for years and they all tend to have strengths, weaknesses and a natural life cycle.

Small groups manage deeper discussions, but they are also very volatile and difficult to sustain since the addition or removal of just a few voices can drastcially change the communities dialogue.

The more stable the groups become, the more prone they are to stagnation. People talk themselves out on the "deep" subjects, then as they get to know each the discussions become more personal and often the group then founders over personality dynamics.

As groups enlarge, the personal dynamics between individuals have less effect on the success of the entire community, but the discussions become somewhat more superficial. Discourse is harder to keep "on focus" and there is a constanct in and out flow of members that means the community is constantly reinventing itself.

I think it's important to recognize the limitations of the medium and the inevitability of change.

[hippiechick]

16. evolved perhaps ...

.. but "matured" is definitely not a word I'd use given that there still seems to be a resounding echo chamber, some naive hero worship and 'me too' pile on mentality in alot of cases.

In an ideal world, the DU activist corps would have fired up about 2 years ago.

But compared to what else is out there (from my very limited surfing experience) ... DU is still 'home'.

[madrchsod]

18. actually somethings never change

but we are getting alot stronger. i started at about 11,000 and it seemed we were not taken serious by anyone but now we can and will be a be a force in the 2006 elections. we have people that post here that are running for offices around the country,we have donated time and money not just for our own but for others,and we have some dam fine writers who are members. i`d say we are just getting longer and not getting older...

[stillcool]

19. My entry into DU....

opened my eyes in a big way. There's so much to learn here. While threads get monotonous at times, and tempers flare, you can always find sanction in another forum, or even use the search button to find a plethora of information on any given subject. There are so many posters that I am in awe of for their grasp on what is often an extremely confusing landscape of history. And, in times like these with someone like Cindy Sheehan at the forefront the amount of heart exposed here brings me to tears. I've been around since the election, and have only quit DU once so far, which is pretty good for me.

[JitterbugPerfume]

20. no

i have noticed a real regression as a matter of fact


Ihave been here a long time

[beetbox]

25. Could you explain further

and maybe make some recommendations as to how to bring the discussions into a deeper realm. In my short time I sense issues which might be called 'parapolitics' are on the margins if discussed at all and 'Pop politics' are the more prevalent and lasting threads.

Would be interested to hear your views.

[kodi]

51. agreed, (as one Vermeer fan to another if you can recall that old thread)

that is the nature of the beast i fear. originally the site attracted posters who were a more hard-core group of political junkies licking our wounds over the appointment of bush in 2000....and i think the average age of the posters was a lot older too. but that is only my opinion, based upon the level of writing and intellectual depth of the posts from 2001-2 compared to recent times.

political discussions were more detailed, rigorously debated and concise. perhaps that was based upon the fact that there were very few other places to post political discussions. now with the rise of blogs such as well, you pick'em....eschaton, kos, digby, smirking chimp, americablog, donkey rising, mahabalog, josh marshall's new site etc and so many others, the discussions here are more scant vis-a-vis in-depth analysis of current events. those sites have bled off many of the discussions once found only here.

also, we are in a lull now between election campaigns

however, i come back to see old evil DUers, with whom i have bonded via rigorous debate, and always check out first the late breaking news posts because it is a damn fine way to catch up quickly on what is happening.

many old Duers, will pitt, ulysses, sffreeways, eloriel(sp?,)hawker hurricane, crewleader, i hardly see ever post anymore and they were the best, along with the originator of this thread.

btw junebug, in the old days i posted as AJA and we discussed the Vermeer show at the national gallery in washington they had back in 'the mid '90s. it was the best exhibition i ever saw. but then, i am crazy for Vermeer and the things he did with shadows and light

[hunter]

24. I really enjoy the groups and forums.

This is a great place to toughen up ideas.

DU can be intimidating to newcomers, especially people who usually hang out on sites where people will send you "mega-dittos" even when you've said something utterly lame. (Heh... Support the troops! God Bless America!)

The surf here at DU can be mighty rough. Even a pro can have their head pounded into the sand. But honestly, any newcomer can simply read and not post until they feel they are up to it. I lurked here for a long time, and my very first post concerned a subject I know quite a lot about.

My overall opinion of DU is probably colored by my experiences hanging out in much rougher neighborhoods. There are many civilized people here on DU, but alas, I must confess I'm probably not one of them.

[trumad]

28. I think that my steady decline of posting here on DU

is a clear indication that DU has matured.

[rosesaylavee]

32. Funny Post - this is what I like about DU

This is a perfect example of what I like DU. Understated. Funny. Intelligent. Easy to read:)

Maybe the question should be - what do you want it to do? What is it NOT doing for you now that it did before? What are your expectations now as opposed to when you first posted?

[proud patriot]

36. trumad has a very valid point

;-)

[kodi]

52. yes he has, and has also been told repeatedly to put a hat on to cover it

;-)

[sakabatou]

30. I believe so

[Lifelong Protester]

37. Hey I'm a newbie

but I am enjoying my time here
A lot rougher neighborhoods is right, try joining a Civil War Roundtable!
But seriously, you search, you get out of it what you want to find. So far I am here for some commiseration, education, and to feel that I am NOT ALONE here!!

[sakabatou]

41. Welcome to DU, LP!

[Lifelong Protester]

45. Thanks for the welcome

So far, so good. I belong to a lot of message boards, and I can say again, you find what you are looking for. I like what I see here, and know enough to ignore what I don't care for..........................

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. You'll get plenty of all three!

And much much more! Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Lifelong Protester]

46. So far, so good...

I am happy with what I have found here. I 'lurked' for months, since last October, and just figured out a screen name... and decided if the feds were going to come and get me for posting here, well, they will just have to find me...:freak:

[paulk]

38. No. In fact, it's gotten worse

I used to think that DU would be a tool for bringing people together. I'm beginning to think the opposite.

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. DU has enlighten me.

I didn't have a clue until I stumbled upon DU! I am so grateful! I've been here since early 2001 and I think we have evolved into a force to be reckon with. I love this place!

[bvar22]

44. Worse in some ways, better in others

In the early days, topics would stay on the front page of the forums for days. In 2001 & 2002, I could check in once a day for a couple of hours, and keep up with every thread in LBN and GD (which included GDPolitics). DU Members could think about their responses and compose a reply that actually addressed the points or issues presented in the post to which they were responding.

Because the board moved at a much slower pace in the early days, it was possible to draft a response and edit it several times before posting it without sacrificing pertinence or relevance. There were fewer Emotional Responses and cheap ad hominums. Fewer threads were hi-jacked by one or two people playing tag team insisting that THEIR opinion was the ONLY opinion and everybody else was just stupid. It was generally considered rude to post more than a couple of times to the same thread unless asked a direct question. DUers were more tolerant and willing to discuss substance. Because DU was slower most threads developed cohesively in a progressive linear fashion that made sense, and were enlightening to read. IIRC, few threads went over 50 well written posts. DU was more intelligent, intimate, and respectful.

The early days were not always completely civil. Nader's influence on the 2000 election was bitterly debated without ever reaching a common ground of understanding. That debate still rages today (though without me). DU never even agreed to disagree on Nader. But even the Nader threads progressed linearly in accusations and counter accusations. Today, they just go in tight, "no one is listening or learning", adolescent circles.

I miss the days of the well written post and the linear progression of ideas, but I'm still here, and I still love DU.
It is faster, much more chaotic, and not as civil, but the ENERGY on tap is amazing. DU has MUCH MORE influence because of our size, resources, and activism!
DU finally got so big we could no longer be ignored. I remember the first time Rush Limbaugh attacked DU. On that day I said, "DU is making a difference!"

Overall, it seems to me that DU has sacrificed intimacy and intelligent debate for size and influence.
That doesn't make us more mature, but it does make us more powerful.

:patriot:

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Just looking at GD now, I would say...

no.

[TankLV]

48. Umm - sure we have!

I can have my own fantasies, too, ya know!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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