THE GD RULES VOTE HAS BEEN CANCELLED.

[Skinner]

At approximately 2:00 PM ET, an glitch appeared which kept members from voting. So we cancelled the vote.

ON EDIT: WE HAVE FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM. RABID NERD WAS MESSING WITH US. SEE HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=448066

Here's an explanation:

rabid_nerd posted a message in the thread with the poll. That message included code which automatically registered a "no" vote for anyone that opened his message.

The reason people kept getting the "you already voted" message is because the software had registered a "no" vote for them as soon as they opened the thread.

If you look at the thread with the poll, the complaints began right after rabid_nerd pulled his little stunt.

Skinner
DU Admin

[GiovanniC]

1. I Blame Diebold

n/t

[Karenina]

52. Reading through this thread

is like having a big RED FLAG waving overhead accompanied by sirens and klaxons. This a private/public forum being hassled by a "practical joker." How much bigger are the stakes with the voting machines in California?

[proud patriot]

2. Oh man that is a total bummer

:-(

[Walt Starr]

3. It is not related to multiple votes coming from a single IP Address

I confirmed that the same glitch appeared when attempting to vote from a U.S. IP address and a U.K. IP Address. If Elad wants further details, please PM me.

[matcom]

4. anyone know where Katherine Harris has been lately?

:shrug:

[Capn Sunshine]

5. Diebold ATM in your Server building?

That could be the problem :tinfoilhat:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Hehe...send this to BBV..they can use it as evidence

:evilgrin:

Maybe we should go to paper ballots

[Zorra]

171. Well....

Since we can't use paper ballots, and I realize that a lot of work has been done to plan for this election, some way has to be planned so that the electronic voting system be as foolproof as possible. This is a good lesson, and fortunately the trick was discovered, albeit that this is the wrong arena for this kind of thing to occur. And I doubt something like this will occur again. But who knows? It's electronic voting.

The California recall election is on Oct. 7, and nothing has been done to prevent the republicans from fixing the election.

So does not passing the recall, and Bustamante, really have a chance?

I am completely technologically challenged, and don't know if this is in any way possible, but:

I am not in favor of doing dishonest things, but, would it be wrong for someone to screw up the California election (other than republicans)? If someone (that is not a republican, and I'm not talking about vote rigging, just malfunction) screws up the California election through a widespread series of cracks, there would, hopefully, be a national outrage, and that should force the public and the government to come to terms with the problems of electronic voting. Just like the outrage that has been caused here. Get the problem solved any way possible short of violence...

before the 2004 election.

[jono]

7. Details

There's not much to say, other than I opened your pinned post at the top and read through to the bottom of the thread before I voted. This was about 11:30 am (PT). I did not refresh the page before or after I tried to vote.

Good luck fixing it!

[bif]

8. when I tried to vote

It said I had already voted.

[Skinner]

9. WE HAVE FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM

Rabid_nerd was messing with us:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=448066

[Walt Starr]

11. Wow, was his post count and gold star legitimate too?

I notice he's been tombstoned.

[Skinner]

13. You're damn right he's tombstoned. (nt)

[blondeatlast]

140. Good for you, Skinner! If I'm this angry, I can't imagine what you

must be going through.

This is lowdown, dirty, and just mean-spirited. And the worst thing is, it came from one of (what we thought) was our own; not a Freeper.

[whirlygigspin]

151. I would like to thank Rabid Nerd

for showing us how easy it is to tamper with a vote.

Instead of tombstoning him, you should thank him.

[Dookus]

154. First...

he admitted to having done this in the past.

Second... the proper way to show how easy it is is to alert an admin is via email - NOT to screw up the most important poll we've had here in months.

It was low-down, manipulative, anti-democratic and just all around fucked up.

[Muddleoftheroad]

239. Thank him?

You must be kidding. For being a dick? Thank him if he points it out PRIVATELY to Skinner and might even suggest a fix. A public stunt like this is unforgiveable.

[Cheswick2.0]

16. yes his gold star and post count were legitimate

Herb is a basically decent guy who I think got tempted to do something just because he could. I think he was sincere in his apology and did not take the poll seriously.

[_NorCal_D_]

134. Here is his apology.

Poor guy...
:(

http://www.herbriede.com/

[Booberdawg]

167. Why "poor guy"??

What he did was malicious. And he's apparently been doing this for a while. He deserves no sympathy.

[Democat]

174. Bring back the Nerd!

He made a mistake playing a prank and he apologized.

[Pale Blue Dot]

181. I feel very little sympathy for him

He is a candidate for office, and yet he tried to backhandedly tamper with a vote because he did not agree with the outcome. This has no place on DU, this has no place in America, and Rabid Nerd should be ashamed of himself.

I'm glad he apologized. That means maybe he'll learn his lesson before he takes office and does something REALLY stupid and illegal.

But as for a second chance here, if it were my choice (and, of course, it's not), I'd say absolutely not.

[Booberdawg]

182. you can't be serious!

why don't you run that by skinner, earl, and elad and see how cute they think your suggestion is

[EarlG]

201. Well....

By his own admission he had played this "prank" before without getting caught. There's no reason to believe that he thought this one would be any different. But he picked the wrong poll to try and skew. It became obvious to him that he was going to get caught, so he fessed up. Too late.

What really gets to us is that if a freeper had found this exploit and used it in this particular poll, everybody would have been obviously pissed - but that's what you'd expect from a freeper. We would have fixed the exploit, and held the poll again, and all shaken our heads at the stupid freepers.

But this was done by a long term member of DU. This, to me, is worse than the time that script kiddie compromised the old software and deleted a bunch of records. You expect assholes to do things like that. You don't expect it from people who are supposed to be on our side.

The other polls that he skewed without our knowledge had already caused complaints and suspicions that freepers, or newbies, or "paid operatives" were doing the dirty work. It created yet more suspicion and division among members of the board. But we didn't realize what the problem was, and rabid_nerd didn't come forward to offer the information.

But he suddenly gets caught, and some people are suggesting that he was doing a good thing - that he was deliberately showing up a flaw in our system. That's not true. He didn't think he'd get caught, he simply went ahead and tried to skew the result of the poll. We knew that something was wrong this time. If he hadn't come foward we would have easily found out that it was him anyway. There's no honor here.

Skinner already posted his opinion on new rules for the GD forum last week (and I agree with him) - in case you didn't read it, he is of the opinion that, in a nutshell, politics is a dirty game and special rules aren't necessary for the GD forum. The reason we came up with these rules and put them up for a vote is because we have had hundreds of requests to do "something" about the state of the GD forum. This is the "something" we decided on, and we wanted to let the members vote yes or no. And one long term member of the board thinks he can just waltz in and negate everybody's opinion. It's shameful.

[Walt Starr]

212. EarlG, I have a question

I'll send it to you in a PM because it's something I don't think should be out here in the open.

[Kamika]

202. quite a prank

You know he could have done this "prank" on some poll nobody cares about and then exposing it.. he would have done the admins a great favor by exposing it and im sure he would have been thanked. But by doing it to a real official poll, is pretty low.

[FubarFly]

224. It's beyond low.

The more I think about it, the angrier I get.


He wan't just "playing around" He knew the poll was serious and he had a specific agenda in mind to disrupt it. And this asshole is running for office, as a Democrat? :grr:

Unfuckingbelievable.

[monobrau]

78. i'm used to the kids doing this

I admin a site frequented by a bunch of teenage music fans, and have to deal with this silly crap all the time. I expect a little more from my DU bretheren.

[dbt]

10. Could be a sign, you know

:evilgrin:
dbt

[Cheswick2.0]

12. I am weirdly depressed about this

Well at least he let you know how your polls can be messed with. I am sad he did that.

[Walt Starr]

15. Maybe there's a security patch for the polling software

I know keeping up with the patches for this stuff can be a real pain.

[arwalden]

19. A Third-Party Polling Site?

But those can be manipulated too... and non-DU'ers could vote as well.

Never mind.

-- Allen

[Robin Hood]

17. So much for the accuracy of these polls.

I'm sad to say that I no longer have confidence in these polls.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. I have to admit that I thought you were screwing around

I thought all of you who were saying you couldn't vote were screwing around. I am sorry.

[Robin Hood]

44. It's all right.

I wouldn't mess around about something like that. Though on one poll some time ago. I wrote Skinner in the poll stating that his poll is broken because it would only let me vote once. lol..

[arwalden]

14. Now What?

It's disappointing... but it was pretty clear what the voting trend was. It didn't look like the no-votes were going to be able to stage a comeback.

== Allen

[Walt Starr]

18. Based upon what rabid_nerd said and what was in the broken URL

I think the no votes were about to make a comeback because everybody who got the message they had already voted were forced into voting no, at least from what I saw.

[arwalden]

22. How Do People Manage To Find Glitches Like This?

Is there a special web site, or chat room, or usenet group where people do nothing but talk about ways to fuck with other people?

-- Allen

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. Hackers like a challenge, and they do share info with each other

it's an intellectual challenge. They do it because they can. There aren't many reasons for it. (Why do people climb mountains?)
In this case, I see where yet another illustration of the dangers of computer voting has been made.

[TahitiNut]

196. Please believe me: this one was no challenge.

It's very simple -- he could've made it more difficult to detect and figure out. (Put the munged URL in a post in another thread and <possibly> forum, for example.) I personally don't see a lot of technical expertise demonstrated in this one -- or common sense.

[sexybomber]

31. you'd be surprised where people learn how to crack security.

some people just have a mind for that type of s***. If you know enough about php or asp or whatever DU is coded in, you'll be able to figure out flaws in it or how to make the code do what you want it to.

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. votus interuptus...here...WTF? ...n/t

[VermontDem2004]

21. I still don't understand

How he skewed the results. I could only vote once in all the DU polls that were posted.

[Walt Starr]

23. I don't think the skew actually happened

I think it was in the progress of happenning, but everybody reported the problem they were having immediately.

[Skinner]

34. Yes, it did happen.

The There was a net shift in the vote of approximately 20%. Before rabid_nerd posted, the vote was 80% to 20%. After rabid_nerd posted, the poll was open for 45 minutes, and the vote changed to 70% to 30%.

But more importantly -- many people were denied the opportunity to cast a vote.

[Walt Starr]

79. I should have been more specific

The skew hadn't happened to the degree to actually change the outcome of the vote,....yet.

It would have, though, and only with a few more people clicking on the thread.

[GiovanniC]

24. He Put a Link to the "No" Vote

as an image file. When the image attempted to load, it would register a "no" vote for anyone who hadn't voted yet in that poll. He did it in the thread that the poll was in, making it impossible for anyone to vote "yes" and making it so that anyone who entered the thread was voting "no".

When people attempted to vote (ostensibly for the first time), it told them they had already voted.

[Walt Starr]

32. Yep, that's exactly what I saw

Beware of poll threads with broken URL pictures in posts.

[goobergunch]

53. He put the following code snippet in his message:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=poll_vote&poll_id=1937&choice=2&forum=104&topic_id=446324#.jpg

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

98. crappy programming: a GET instead of a POST

very amateurish

[VermontDem2004]

35. I am lost and confused

I still don't understand how he did it, I do you put a link to these no vote and where do you put an as an image file.... ahh I am confusing my self. I guess I can't understand how.

[bearfartinthewoods]

115. he disguised the script

have you ever noticed the red x in a box in anyone's post? usually it happens when they try to insert a picture or image and screw it up.
in this case, all we saw or at least those of use that have enabled pictures, was that red x.

what the system saw was the code which instructed the system that you wanted to vote "no". so the instant you clicked on the thread and it loaded, the hidden script voted for you so when you tried to vote you got the message that you already had because the hidden instructions had beaten you to it.

it didn't hit me because i don't allow any pictures because there are a lot of REALLY nasty things that can be hidden the same way.

[Robin Hood]

36. That does not make sense.

When i voted NO, It told me that I had already voted but it didn't count my vote. it actually blocked the NO votes and approved the yes votes.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. fronm what I understand, you did vote no

just by opening the thread. So the scew was in favor of the no votes. So even though you didn't get to click on the no link, you did in a sense vote no.

[EarlG]

72. Incorrect

After rabid_nerd posted his code, it was impossible for anyone to even open the thread without a "no" vote being cast in their name. In fact, after 2PM it was not even possible to cast a vote at all. As soon as you opened the thread, a "no" vote was automatically cast in your name.

It was actually a simple HTML trick, and we will attempt to find a workaround for it tonight - that is, Elad will try to find a workaround for it once he gets back from his day job, which we had to call and drag him out of in the middle of the work day because we thought the software was cracking up.

But I want to clarify to everyone that when you say that your "no" vote was blocked, and instead a "yes" vote was approved, that is absolutely incorrect.

EG

[goobergunch]

86. Would the bug have been activated if you didn't view rabid_nerd's post?

After the thread got over 20 posts long, it went into View all mode. If somebody only clicked on post #0, they would not have seen rabid_nerd's post.

:shrug:

[Skinner]

90. That is correct, goobergunch.

If you didn't click "view all" then you would not have had a problem.

Unfortunately, many people clicked "view all".

[Maeve]

88. So those of us who voted before he pulled that were counted

I wondered why the "no" count kept rising along with the "I can't vote!" posts.

He's lucky we don't shoot rabid critters around here.

[davidinalameda]

25. nuking is too good for him

make him be moderator during the primaries!

:bounce:

[VolcanoJen]

38. LMAO, dwick!!!

And good riddance to you, rabid_nerd.

:grr:

[proud patriot]

67. ROFLMAO

haaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa !

[0rganism]

99. YES, oh YES! Admins, take a look at this one

It has poetic justice written all over it.

This is the fitting fate!

[blondeatlast]

145. Love it, LOOOOOVVVVVE it!

[stickdog]

26. VNS exit polling was also suspended. Coincidence?

I think not.

[Skinner]

27. I just added an explanation.

I hope this makes sense...

rabid_nerd posted a message in the thread with the poll. That message included code which automatically registered a "no" vote for anyone that opened his message.

The reason people kept getting the "you already voted" message is because the software had registered a "no" vote for them as soon as they opened the thread.

If you look at the thread with the poll, the complaints began right after rabid_nerd pulled his little stunt.

Skinner
DU Admin

[Dookus]

28. What's most sad about this is...

none of this HAD to be put to a vote. The admins can institute any rules they want by fiat.

I thought it was incredibly gracious of the admins to a) propose the rules for consideration b) change the proposal based on feedback and c) try to let the members decide for themselves what they want.

I don't know what more they could've done to accommodate legitimate complaints about GD.

And then this crap happens. And people wonder why rules are necessary at all. Sigh....

[Rose Siding]

103. You are so right, Dookus

I hadn't stopped to think of that

[blondeatlast]

149. My feelings exactly. Gad, all the crap they've put up with the

past few weeks, now this. Where do I start?

To the Adminstrators:

Thank you

1. for creating this site

2. for making it extraordinarily user-friendly

3. for having well-written and very clear rules by which members operate

4. for working out the bugs as soon as you become aware of them (hubby's in IT; I'm aware of the work that goes into it)

5. for making it truly democratic by offering this opportunity to vote

6. for the personal interest you take in the members, even when it gets ugly

7. for continuing to offer the site

8. to be continuued?

[goobergunch]

163. Seconded! (n/t)

[AP]

30. What else can you do with embedded html in signatures?

Should I be worried?

[GiovanniC]

64. My Company Has an "Inappropriate Content" Filter

On SOME forums (not DU, obviously), some people post images that are linked to "inappropriate" sites (sex/porn sites, Nazi/hate crime sites, etc). The worst part is, if I go onto a forum that deals with technology/computers (I work in IT), and some moron has images like these in their posts or signature, my friends down the hall get a report that says that I'm trying to look up girl-on-girl action or that I'm trying to build a bomb or something.

[blondeatlast]

217. This is for you . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=240778

[Walt Starr]

83. Keep your IE patched

There are security holes in IE and they get regularly patched with critical updates. It is possible to actually spread viruses and worms via a similar methodology. I haven't heard of it happening yet, but some day a message board is going to be responsible for spreading a worm across the internet, then you will see boards shutting this capability down when it happens.

[Gringo]

33. What a sleazy trick!

As one who is against the new rules, and favors a minimum of rules in general, I think that is a crap thing to do. I hope rabid nerd is no longer with us.

[prolesunited]

40. No he isn't

He's been tombstoned. It isn't like the admins don't have enough work to do already.

[Robin Hood]

41. He'll be back.

as another incarnation.

[Capn Sunshine]

37. HEY SKINNER

I think it was pretty cool of Rabbit to confess. Do you think you guys would have caught him anyway, and were closing in ,thus this prompted his confession?

If not, is he going to be allowed back in any form? Just curious. Obviously what he did was a clear violation of DU Rules. But his service in pointing this out was immeasurable if you weren't on the trail of this glitch.

So , I understand the tombstone, but wondered how you feel about his confession?

[Skinner]

45. We would have found out the problem.

Elad is at work. As soon as he got home, I have no doubt that he would have figured out the problem.

The database table for all the votes would suddenly have a long string of "no" votes in a row, starting at 2:00. The only question would be figuring out what caused it.

And there's rabid_nerd's post, right before 2:00.

I have no doubt that we would have found it.

I suppose a confession is better than no confession. That's all I'll say about that.

[Robin Hood]

50. However, he did point out the vulnerability in the system.

How easy would it be for freepers to hi-jack our elections? Remember after last years elections we were hit with "All your bases are ours" pop ups?

[Skinner]

54. Utter crap.

He could have just as easily sent me a fucking private message about the problem.

[Robin Hood]

60. True. I didn't mean to imply that what he did was right.

Despite my utter resistance to the new rules, I am extremely disturbed about this vote tampering. It is a major violation of freedom of speech, which I champion.

[FlaGranny]

63. A violation of DU rules? No.

I never saw a rule that said "do not cheat on polls." That was a violation of us, all the members of DU. I feel a little bit like I've been mugged. A rotten thing to do. I hope he doesn't come back - he can't be trusted.

Skinner must be very pissed!

[Japhy_Ryder]

100. Besides which

In his confession, he stated that he was sorry about the unintended consequence, i.e. people were upset that their votes didn't cout, but he said nothing about his intended consequence, i.e. rigging the vote. I'm not sure that the unintended consequence is worse than the intended one.

[kentuck]

42. A lesson for the BBV folks....

See how easy it is to manipulate computer voting?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

47. That's what I say. nt

[smallprint]

106. Exactly my thoughts as well.

I remember when computerized voting was first promoted after the 2000 theft, some reporter was asking people what they thought about the idea. A computer programmer answered: "Well, I guess we'll find out who the nerds want for President."

:eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

43. Super

:grr:

[catmandu57]

46. So what now?

Are we going to try this again?

[goobergunch]

49. I hope so

I'd have voted YES, but the poll was already closed by the time I got home from school...

[Japhy_Ryder]

55. Can't now

rabid_nerd posted what he did to everyone, instead of just confessing to Skinner. So now anyone who saw the thread can do the same thing. I'd like to think no one would, but as we've seen here today, we should know better.

[goobergunch]

57. Good point

Sadly, it now seems that DU polls are now busted forever, unless Elad comes up with some sort of fix.

[KaraokeKarlton]

206. Well, I think the admins can disable html and image posting

including signatures. Anyone who has ever had to contend with running software understands what kind of a headache this sort of thing can be. Rabid Nerd should have contacted the admins privately to tell them this could be done. But quite obviously, he had a motive for doing what he did, and that was to try to prevent the change in rules. What he did was morally wrong. It sounds like the majority of people want the new rules and just because he disagreed he did something really shitty to the people who work hard to provide all of us a place to have these discussions. The rules, as unfortunate as it is that we need them, are probably the only way to get things under control so the admins and mods don't have to spend all their time babysitting people who can't seem to conduct themselves as adults. All I can do is just shake my head over this. Ridiculous.

[Woodstock]

223. I'd second disabling HTML and image posting

I had to turn off images in my preferences, because someone thought he was being clever by using the "png disguised as a jpg" trick to send information about users gathered at this site to another site (and God knows what the people at the other site did with the info) by using PHP. I posted the steps of how they did it at the time. However, as I said, I was able handle this problem myself by using the user preferences.

As for HTML, it has a lot of potential for annoyances to say the least. People here have been really cool not to abuse it, but things like colors of backgrounds, blinking, marquee, etc. could make reading posts a drag if it caught on. It works here with simple HTML code, or it did a few weeks ago when I saw it - dark blue background with white blinking falling letters. Not pretty. Most bulletin boards turn HTML off for that reason alone.

Just my two cents, you guys are doing a great job managing a VERY active forum.

[VermontDem2004]

61. I still don't understand

How rabid_nerd messed up the results, I can't figure how he did it, I get a more in-depth explanation which got me more confused.

[Japhy_Ryder]

65. Basically

he embedded a hidden broken image link into his post. It looked broken on his post, but was in fact holding a script. That script ran anytime someone entered the board, and automatically made that user enter a "No" vote. So the link wasn't really an image, it was PHP script which ran each time someone entered the board. It captured their screen name, and submitted a No vote for them without them realizing it.

[VermontDem2004]

71. I understand now

but you said the problem would be having a revote since he publicly admitted it, well I don't think many people know what PHP script to runs, and what script would automatically register a no vote?

[Japhy_Ryder]

80. I looked at what he did - it wasn't very hard

Enough people know though. I didn't know about the flaw, and I would have never conceived of it, but what he did was actually fairly simple. Any programmer probably could have pulled it off, if so inclined, I suppose. And in his confession, he directly linked to what he did, and how he did it. If he'd just contacted Skinner directly, then they could have tried again right now, but since he posted it all for the world to see, they can't run that risk again.

[GiovanniC]

84. It Wasn't a Script Per Se

For example, the way that you display your football picture in
your signature is to simply post the link to that image.  

The image is posted by making making my computer, and anyone
else's, actually go to that site and pull that image and
display it in your post.  In your case, that image is located
at http://graphics.fansonly.com.  That site will actually
register a hit when my computer goes and gets that image.  

In this case, rabid_nerd "tricked" the board
software into going and getting an image that didn't exist --
located at the link to vote "no".  So when you went
into that thread, your computer tried to access that image,
and couldn't, because it didn't exist.  Meanwhile, the
"no" link registered a hit, which in this case voted
"no" for you.

[Mairead]

94. .

.

[EarlG]

85. Not quite

It wasn't a special script - it was a simple link. As far as I understand it, he voted "no" and then copied and pasted the URL from his browser into a new message in the poll thread. Then he just added #.jpg to the end of it. So whenever the thread was opened, the browser tried to translate the link to the "no" vote into an image, because of the .jpg extension. When it couldn't, it displayed a broken image link, but it also opened the link which cast a "no" vote.

Quite clever, not to mention unbelievably anti-social.

[Japhy_Ryder]

89. Geez

That's even simpler than I thought it was. I thought he had to embed something to capture the screen name. But I guess that info was already sitting somewhere in the user's session, so all he needed was the yes or no on the vote.

Clever, and for me, an e-commerce developer, a little scary.

[Cocoa]

95. I think the poll feature in this software is just for fun

It's not meant to be secure, or else the software provides means for security that weren't implemented.

Anyway, aside from the technical problems, online polls are inherently flawed in other ways, like the vulnerability to being freeped for example.

[Booberdawg]

107. OMG That was too easy

[ParanoidPat]

120. "Quite clever, not to mention unbelievably anti-social."

It sure explains his screen name! :evilgrin:

Only a real 'nerd' would notice such an obvious exploit and only a 'rabid' one would use it!

As a BBV'er it leaves me ROTFLMAO! :0 See folks, THAT'S how it's done!

[TahitiNut]

189. Remember, it didn't even need to be in the polling thread itself.

Any post containing the hacked URL, in any forum, would've registered a "no" vote for the DUer viewing that post, if they'd not already voted. (This would've been harder to find, BTW. Think about it.)

Quite frankly, this was bound to happen. It's not (as they say) 'rocket science.'

[goobergunch]

197. Or in his sig line for that matter.... (n/t)

[TahitiNut]

204. EXACTLY ... and that one has the advantage ...

... of being turned on or off at whim. When your sig or avatar is changed in DU2, it 'grandfathers' all your posts. They all show the change. Any time anyone opened any of his posts while the sig contained the munged URL, they'd be voting 'No' if they'd not (yet) voted -- even those who intended not to vote. Thus, it could be turned on and off at will. Really, really tough to detect.

[HFishbine]

105. Isn't it possible

to post a message that allows no replies? That would fix it.

[DemExpat]

51. Sickening.......

:puke:
and disappointing....

DemEx

[VolcanoJen]

56. Perhaps the answer will be to vote within the thread, as a reply.

Simple YES or NO vote in the subject line, posted as a response, no message, one vote per person.

It will be more difficult to tabulate, but it would be far more difficult to tamper with the results that way. The downside is that the vote would not be anonymous.

[Skinner]

58. No. We're going to have a re-vote.

Hopefully we can fix the problem before we vote.

[VolcanoJen]

66. GOOD!

And thanks for maintaining your leadership, composure and confidence, Skinner.

We need that right now.

[newyawker99]

101. I am glad we will get the chance to re-vote. I agree

with a previous poster. I kinda feel violated. What a cheap, rotten thing to do. I am glad that he didn't cause any more damage. The fact that he was banned is a clear warning that this type of garbage will not be tolerated.

I hope you fix it soon guys.

[Pale Blue Dot]

126. You know it's bad when even NY99 can't say anything nice about it!

:grr:

[bloom]

123. That's nlce - we don't need anymore election 2000''s

where the voters are disenfranchised. :)

[DemExpat]

59. I'd just take the 80% yes to 20% no in the hours it was open as

the result.

Install the rules....Skinner did not even have to ask us what we preferred...

What a shitty development......

:hi:
DemEx

[VermontDem2004]

68. I wouldn't

I didn't get to vote in the poll and my vote would of have been 'No'. I know it may have not made a huge difference, but many people didn't get a chance to vote.

[goobergunch]

69. I agree that Skinner didn't have to ask

but I don't think the results can be deemed representative.

The poll opened at 11:22 AM. rabid_nerd posted at 1:58 PM. The vote was then locked at 2:42 PM. That's less than three hours of a fair vote.

[catpower2000]

70. I agree, but...

there's a possibility that there was a certain segment of voters who only vote later in the day--for example, maybe lots of people who would have voted "no" only post at night. :shrug: That's surely what they would claim, anyhow.

I think it was pretty obvious, too, though. "No" only started to even catch up after that jackass pulled his stunt.

Cat

[DemExpat]

75. I posted while Skinner was saying they could fix it......

if not, I'd say the margin was wide enough to take it as a YES.

:hi:
DemEx

[Zhade]

185. That's not the point, though. It's disenfranchisement. I couldn't vote.

Just as in real life, we don't just assume the results, we complete the process and tabulate the results.

Come on. You know better. :)

[blondeatlast]

152. And people could easily vote more than once.

[FubarFly]

62. This is pretty upsetting,

but I am glad he wasn't more devious about it.

Still... my sympathies to the administration. You guys went out of your way to be be fair to us, and this is how you're repayed. :grr:

You had and have my sincere appreciation. Whatever you decide to do from here I will fully abide by.

[outinforce]

73. This Infuriates Me

Some prankster thinking he's being cute. Not thinking that a vote like this is serious.

The owners/admins of this site go to a lot of trouble -- a lot of trouble -- to solicit our views, refine their proposed rules based upon our input, and give us the opportunity to vote, and some joker doesn't think this is serious??

I hope that some day folks like rabid_nerd have their own websites, and that some one plays a nasty little prank on them.

Several follks spent a lot of time and energy so that we could vote. They did not have to spend any time at all soliciting our views, but they did.

I"m still seeing red over what has happened here.

Thanks again, skinner and all the rest of you. I'm just so embarrassed that one of us would do something like this to you guys.

[THUNDER HANDS]

74. Et Tu Rabid_Nerd ?

Traitor, traitor I say!

:)

[zeemike]

76. Maybe we should pin a medal on him

After all he has just given us a wake up call that freepers could be messing with us.

[Dookus]

81. well...

most of the polls here mean nothing. If a freeper wants to skew a "how big is your dick" poll, let 'em at it.

THIS poll was serious, and had actual repercussions for all of us.

I'm horribly disappointed that this happened, and worst of all, by a long-time member.

For those of you who argue that we don't need to steeenkin' rules in GD because we're all capable of acting like adults: FEH!

[Robin Hood]

92. How would the new rules have stopped this from happening?

[Dookus]

133. they wouldn't have...

my point, though, is many argue that no rules at all are necessary because people can be trusted to act like adults.

I think this shows it's not true.

In the real world, if you went around and acted like an asshole everywhere you went, there would be real consequences. Try joining the local Elks club and showing up every night acting like a jerk, insulting people and making ridiculous arguments. You'd be shown the door.

This is no different. Since nobody can physically get punched in the mouth for being an asshole here, some commonsense rules that can be enforced are necessary.

If everybody acted like a responsible adult, there would be no issue. Today's events shows that people can't be trusted to act that way.

[EarlG]

87. And to think

he could have done something really bad, like I dunno, send us an email to warn us that there was a simple exploit in our polling system or something.

Still, I'm glad he chose to do it this way. So much less irritating and disruptive.

...sorry for the sarcastic reply. I'm just really mad about this right now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

109. Really makes you question people's values..I feel your pain

Not because the VOTE was so important to me..I'll live no matter which way it goes but just the incredible lack of respect for a community that for the most part has treated him well even when he was being a shit.

It's a real slap in the face.

Sorry for the hassles you guys are dealing with as well.

you clearly did not need this aggravation.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

124. I am sorry you are so mad

Yes, the guy exploited the software in a dramatic and disruptive fashion. He's gone now, but not before making a dramatic statement illustrating the potential for fraud in computer voting. And you shouldn't take it personally- it's not as if you wrote the software.
I'm sorry you became a victim, but from my perspective I see where rabid_nerd executed a sort of suicide mission which may have long term benefits. And I notice I am far from the only one here who feels this way- (I just read Karenina's post 52 up top for example).

[EarlG]

129. What do you mean I shouldn't take it personally?

You can't compare the polls on our software to real life voting machines. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to accept that rabid_nerd is some kind of hero in this situation for exposing the dangers of computer voting. This is a website poll, not a general election.

This is what rabid-nerd did today: he deliberately and maliciously fucked with our serious attempt to gauge the community's acceptance or disapproval of some new rules. I don't believe he should be applauded for wasting everybody's time, making us look like we were rigging the vote (do you know the history of this website? Do you have any idea how SICKENING it was for me today to find the Admins of this site compared to the Republicans in election 2000?) and causing us to have to interrupt our work day - and not just our work day, but elad's work day. Now elad may not have written this software from the ground up, but he has modified it so extensively that at this point it could be called his own. You probably don't know this, but elad has to work another full time job to make ends meet because DU doesn't make enough to pay him properly. And yeah, we had to call him and drag him from that job this afternoon because of rabid_nerd's stunt.

You'll note that rabid_nerd also admitted to using his exploit to skew DU polls to make Al Sharpton the winner. I've had to field complaints from members about those very polls, because people were convinced that freepers or trolls or newbies or Rovian operatives were doing it. That leads to more suspicion, more infighting, and more division on the board. Yet all along, it was a long-term member with 1000+ posts and a star next to his name.

So pardon me if I'm not particularly impressed by this description of rabid_nerd as some kind of vote-fraud hero.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

138. I didn't mean to imply that he was a "hero"

I said he for all intents and purposes committed suicide... he is now banned, and may very well face other consequences down the road.
I was simply noting that his subversive act indicates there may indeed be repercussions beyond DU... so pardon me for drawing the conclusion that the software here on DU may be in any way whatsoever comparable to the "real life voting machines" which are frankly scaring the crap out of a lot of people right here on DU. I'm just looking for the silver lining in this.

BTW I am REALLY sorry that there were idiots comparing you guys to Jeb, Kathy et al. (given the specific history of DU) now THAT is pretty seriously f'd up! And that gets me pretty mad.

[EarlG]

142. I'm sorry I was rude

This has gotten us pretty steamed, as you can tell. There was no offense intended in my previous post.

Thanks,
EG

[blondeatlast]

Thank you.

Jerk is a jerk is a jerk. Glad the buttvoid is no longer of this mortal coil.

[blondeatlast]

156. Thank you.

Jerk is a jerk is a jerk. Glad the buttvoid is no longer of this mortal coil.

[blondeatlast]

155. SPILLYOUR GUTS, EarlG, we are just as angry as you are!

Well, probably not, but you deserve it.

[VermontDem2004]

77. This is just a question

ignore my question.

[DoYouEverWonder]

82. This just shows how easy it is to hack someone's code

Just imagine what is happening to our electoral system where your vote really matters. With BBV it's even easier, especially when the powers that be want a specific outcome. At least here the owners wanted an honest result and thus the quick response.

[Classical_Liberal]

91. Why won't rabid_nerds locked thread go away?

has it been hacked too?

[goobergunch]

93. It's been pinned by one of the admins (probably Skinner). (n/t)

[Skinner]

97. I pinned it there.

After being accused of trying to steal the election, and compared to Diebold, I figure it's my perogative to leave that there so everyone knows what actually happened.

[catpower2000]

108. I am really, really angry for you right now...

Here is the sequence of events:

1. GD becomes an unworkable mess of a forum after the candidate bashing begins

2. People start to complain to you that something has to be done

3. You say, "No, I trust our members to work it out".

4. The mess continues, the complaints continue

5. It becomes obvious to most that something has to be done before GD is completely unusable

6. You take the complaints seriously and begin discussions with fellow admin.

7. After much discussion and thought, you post well-reasoned, thoughtful new rules FOR DISCUSSION BY MEMBERS, letting everyone in on the process and keeping us informed all the way.

8. You actually revise the new rules to reflect many members' concerns, making the process EVEN MORE democratic.

9. Despite the fact that this is a privately-owned message board, you actually put the rules UP FOR A VOTE, because your ultimate goal is obviously to have as many DU members as possible be happy with the situation and the decision.

10. Some jackass screws around "for fun" and ruins months, weeks, and days of hard work and thought.

GRR!!! FUCKING SUCKS!!! I'm very sorry this happened. I realize, even if he doesn't how much work you put into this, and how you only did it because WE ASKED FOR IT, and how much you love DU and how much time you put in here. I appreciate you.

Thank you Skinner, EarlG, Elad. Fucking thankless, this job.

Cat

edit: typo

[Walt Starr]

111. It really sucks because I was originally opposed to the new rules

but the final version was reasonable and well formed. I was going to vote yes, but of course RN made me vote no.

[Cocoa]

96. isn't rabid_nerd a politician in real life?

Seriously, I think he either hold office or is running for office, in Pennsylvania I think.

[Booberdawg]

102. Are you shittin me???

[Cocoa]

110. I'm sincere that I think this is true

I'm hoping someone will confirm. I think his sig line had a link to his campagin site.

[Walt Starr]

113. Right here, Cocoa

http://www.herbriede.com/

He's like a candidate for Burrough Council of McSherrystown, PA or some such, both the Democratic and Republican candidate.

[blondeatlast]

158. MAY HE GO DOWN IN FUCKING FLAMES!

DUers please note: blondeatlast used the F-word and she MEANT IT!

[goobergunch]

114. He's running for council in Adams County, PA

Linked from his sig:



Media Director, Draft Gore 2004 PAC
Pennsylvania Coordinator & Environmental Policy Group Member, 2020 Democrats
Correspondence Secretary, Pennsylvania Young Democrats
President, Young Democrats of Adams County
Executive Committee Member/Media, Adams County Democratic Committee
Democratic and Republican Nominee for Borough Councilman of McSherrystown, Pennsylvania

http://www.herbriede.com/

[Cocoa]

118. thanks, goober, thanks Walt

I lost my search ability. :-)

[Booberdawg]

117. shit he sure is

here's his site asking for donations.

http://www.herbriede.com/contribute/

edited for stupid comment

[Skinner]

121. Please don't do that.

We still have rules against harassing people.

[goobergunch]

122. I found one e-mail address to use

I won't post it because of DU rules. All I can say is <REDACTED ON EDIT>

[blondeatlast]

162. Fuck the politician shit: He's a gulldamned PARENT!!!

DUers note 2: blondeatlast cursed a total of 3x on this thread. I ma fit to be tied I'm so angry. HE'S A PARENT, DAMMIT! A PARENT!

Make that 4 times.

[XanaDUer]

208. Gulldamned?

I like that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

119. Yes, he is a candidate for Borough Council in McSherrytown, PA

And is an officer for the Pennsylvania young Democrats.

http://www.herbriede.com

[Pale Blue Dot]

127. That's great. A Democratic candidate for office

who obviously does not really believe in Democracy. I'm sure he'll be GREAT.:eyes:

[goobergunch]

135. Yeah

I don't know enough about the race to issue a formal endorsement/s. However, rabid_nerd will NOT get my endorsement.

[salin]

143. curious that bit

about being the democratic and republican nominee? Too bad he pulled this stunt - so he can't explain the story behind that situation. Sounds, well, interesting.

[goobergunch]

148. That's standard practice

In Pennsylvania, you can run in both Democratic and Republican primaries. If you win both, you get to run on both tickets in the election. In "vote for two" races, this is a good way to ensure your election. So it's not suspicious.

[salin]

157. didn't say suspicious

just 'interesting' - as in there has got to be a story behind it. And you explained it. Thanks.

[blondeatlast]

160. Such an outstanding example to our up and coming

party leadership.

[Uzybone]

168. He now apologises

on his website too. I just dont understand how he could have taken THIS poll as a fucking joke. For chrissakes!

[Pale Blue Dot]

170. Where is this on his website?

I don't see it.

[goobergunch]

173. Right on the front

http://www.herbriede.com

[Pale Blue Dot]

176. I still don't see it

This is what I see:

Residents of McSherrystown
Thank you for your support in making me the only bi-partisan candidate for Borough Council this fall. There are only four candidates to be listed in the fall, and I thank you so much for your support.

I plan to work hard for you starting next January.

Herb Riede
Democratic and Republican Nominee
McSherrystown Borough Council


Public/Political Positions:
Media Director, Draft Gore 2004 PAC
Pennsylvania Coordinator & Environmental Policy Group Member, 2020 Democrats
Correspondence Secretary, Pennsylvania Young Democrats
President, Young Democrats of Adams County
Executive Committee Member/Media, Adams County Democratic Committee
Democratic and Republican Nominee for Borough Councilman of McSherrystown, Pennsylvania
Professional Positions
Web Developer, The Boyds Collection, Ltd.
Community Service
Kiwanis Club of Historic Gettysburg
Latest News:
Visionary - Local man will share 'vision' in Washington



Riede for Council Committee. Paid for by the Riede for Council Committee, Stephanie Riede Treasurer

That's it!

[goobergunch]

178. It's right at the top of the page, reading as follows:

To my friends from Democratic Underground.com

I apologize sincerely for my prank. After noticing the storm my prank had created, it dawned on me that I was tinkering with the wrong poll.

Upon realizing the damage and headache I had caused, I immediately IMmed Skinner a confession. He told me to post a confession in GD. I was already working on it, and I agreed.

Perhaps revealing how it was done was wrong, but I believe doing so will ensure it can't be done again. I have emailed technical ideas on how to stop such a trick. I have also included other tricks and attacks that could theoretically be carried out, and I will not spell those out here.

I have, in fact, submitted bug reports in the past. I have even had IM dialog with Skinner, lighthearted, in the last day or two.

I was sick over the weekend and was feeling pretty good today, and got a little too playful. I played where seriousness was called for.

I have sent a follow up to the confession to Skinner and the admins, citing the specific parts of the DU rules I violated with my prank. One related to "not spamming the message board", and the other to "treating the moderators with respect".

I do support DU in their endeavours, and take full responsibility for my actions.

I have promised that I will NOT sign up under another name. As you can see, I am not much for online anonymity. You know who I am, and I have taken full responsibilty and have offered to help in any way to make up for my affront. I do not have money to spare, but I would be willing to do whatever asked, including the public posting of my confession as Skinner has done. I only regret that I could not reply within that thread. I was replying, in fact, when I was tombstoned.

Please do not hold what I have done against any organization I volunteer for.

For those of you who wish to contact me, my email is <REDACTED>.

Herb Riede
Rabid_Nerd

[Dookus]

180. strange...

I don't get that.

Is it a popup?

[goobergunch]

183. No

It's right on the page.

:shrug:

Did you try hitting "Refresh" in your browser?

[Pale Blue Dot]

184. I still don't see it

And I hit "refresh". Strange. Thanks for posting the contents.

[Dookus]

187. I've hit refresh and shift-refresh

many times. I just get the resume. *shrug*

[Dookus]

177. I don't see anything

other than a short resume.

[goobergunch]

179. See post #177 (n/t)

[FubarFly]

221. I see it.

Maybe it's your browser?

[FubarFly]

231. He's running for Democrat AND Republican?!

Democratic and Republican Nominee for Borough Councilman of McSherrystown, Pennsylvania

:wtf:

[Freddie Stubbs]

244. There were probably no Republicans running in the primary

Or there were fewer Republicans running than seats available. He probably managed to convince 10 Republicans to vote for him as a write-in. This is a lot more common than you would expect, especially in small communities where there are often more open seats than candidates running.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

104. That just confirms my sentiments...give people an MMPI to post here

Between people like RN who only consider their stupid stunts versus the community, posts that read like a Kazinski manifesto and other repeated behavior...


:eyes:

[Scottie72]

112. That was just plain wrong....

Admins: I never did think anyone would even try to fix this vote.

I did have a concern though about the vote. My concern was that we are able to see the current results of the vote. I believe a better way to vote might be to have the results in some way masked. Some voters might be influenced by what the current results are. On the other hand by being able to vote and then see the results it is easier to be sure that your vote actually was what you voted for. (Unless you happen to vote at the same time as others)

I'll vote the same way that voted today regardless. I applaud the effort and am very honored that the Admins are putting this up to vote when they don't have to.

A big thanks to the Hardest Working Administrators of any forum!

:toast:

[Maeve]

116. Could be worse...you don't need to get vaccinated for a rabid nerd bite

Those shots are supposed to hurt something fierce!

You know about the hole and can plug it. Lost a day of voting and got totally ticked off. Wish I could take y'all out for a good old round of drinks!

:beer: :beer:
:beer: .......... :beer:
:beer: ............... :beer:
:beer: ................. :beer:
:beer: ................... :beer:
:beer: ................... :beer:
:beer: ................. :beer:
:beer: ............... :beer:
:beer: .......... :beer:
:beer: :beer:

[Robin Hood]

125. Another issue regarding this vote.

How do you filter out people that start up numerous accounts from voting multiple times?

[Skinner]

128. We can't.

But we only allow people to vote who registered before Monday, 2:45PM, which is the moment we announced the vote.

Since then, nobody could create new accounts to freep it.

[XanaDUer]

130. UN-FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS!

How the hell can anyone talk about repukes fixing the election when shit like this happens?

Admins, mods, I am very sorry this happened. I can imagine you all are RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off right now. I guess it was meant as a joke.

But it was gracious to put it out for vote. You may want to change this to the Dictatorship Underground and not worry about votes.

After all, you guys have to work your butts off for this site.

[bluestateguy]

131. Despicable

I applaud the administrators for tombstoning this undemocratic citizen and I urge them to turn the matter over to DU lawyers to see if any laws have been violated.

[catpower2000]

132. Here's a link to a thank-you thread in ask the admin...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=4707

Just in case you wanted to thank the admins for this thankless job.

Cat

[Cappurr]

136. This really sucks big time

I was going nuts because I had a computer problem and couldn't get on line to vote yes. I was freaking about it. And now to find this.

Elad, Earl and Skinner have a thankless job. And they don't get paid enough. That this jerk is a politician doesn't surprise me in the least.

And I'm real glad admin isn't giving in and is going to do a new poll. Unfortunately, we have some real ass-holes in this community. (Ha. The new rules aren't in effect so I can use profanity :evilgrin: )

[Blitz]

146. Sure you can use profanity

but you still can't name me specifically, so there!! ;)

[molly]

137. That was the work of a bully and an immature mind

why would anyone think it was funny? This guy is a DEM running for office? :wow:

[blondeatlast]

139. I WANT TO CALL HIM OUT (but I won't, of course)! All the work

and thought and preparation that went into this, and a member with too much time on his hands messes it up.

Honestly, since we know who he is . . .

But I respect the rules, and reasons for them.

I'm really disgusted though.

[Shanty Oilish]

141. Find rabid nerd. I need him to program my older daughter.

I can pay.

[salin]

144. *snarf*

a little levity was definitely needed.

[joshcryer]

147. Hehe, too funny.

:D

(Yes, I know a lot of people were upset, and it did disrupt things, but it's still funny to me. Sometimes just taking a deep breath is enough.)

[EarlG]

188. It may be funny to you

But we have expended a considerable amount of time and effort setting this up. Today we had to inconvenience elad by dragging him out of his day job because we thought there was something wrong with the forum software (and there was, but it would have been nice to have been informed about the problem rather than have it exploited to the detriment of DU). We had things to do today which we had to cancel. We have wasted hours dealing with this when we have a backlog of other important things to take care of. We have received abuse from members who thought we were deliberately rigging the vote - and to be honest I can hardly blame them.

Sorry, but I'm just finding it hard to laugh about this.

[Cappurr]

211. No apologies needed EG

For any of you DUers who don't know EG....he's a pretty laid bsck kinda guy. (Now Skinner on the other hand.... :evilgrin: ) Seriously If EG is pissed.....and he definitely is.....you know these guys went through some serious shit today. And EG is right....it is NOT funny, or cute, or smart, or creative......it is just plain disruptive and anti-social.



EDITED FOR SPELLING (twice) :silly:

[molly]

205. Hey - why don't you contribute the funds needed for the fix?

then you can laugh all you want. This is grown-up - non-druggie stuff.

[LalahLand]

225. Wasn't "rabid nerd" a contributor?

Maybe his funds will also go towards the fix. The guy said he was sorry. Why is he still being trashed hours later?

[Dookus]

235. Because

"sorry" doesn't cut it. It was an slap to the admins who work their asses off to keep this place going. It was an affront to every member of the DU community. It was a violation of trust and a cheap attempt to subvert a serious poll because he didn't like the potential outcome.

If GWB said "Hey, sorry 'bout stealing that whole election thing... let's be friends" I'd tell him to fuck off.

[Muddleoftheroad]

240. I hope

Someone tells the local media ALL about what a scmuck this guy is.

[Zorra]

150. lol - Hooray for rabbit nerd! The first

patriot to rig an electronic voting device for the Democrats!!!!!

:bounce:

Rabbit nerd, please, please tell me you are going to be in California on the 7th!

:dem:

[whirlygigspin]

165. Omens & Portents

Is this an omen for 2004?

If it's that easy to tamper with a ballot,
you can bet your funken wagnel on it happening...again.

18 181
ah aha

[Zorra]

175. yeah, that's a lock. n/t

[Zhade]

192. Woah.

18181 = ahaha

That's wild. Never realized that before.

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

159. sham of an election?

godmoding?

do you have ANY idea how much energy, emotion and time the admins put into running this site for YOUR benefit?

Do you have ANY idea how much shit they put up with for doing this?

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to manage literally THOUSANDS of competing complaints from members and try to do the right thing?

Clearly you do not.

This didn't even have to be put to a vote. The admins can institute any rules they see fit. They went out of their way to make this a fair, community-supported vote.

Vote no on the rules if you want, but don't call it a sham, and don't accuse Skinner of ANYTHING other than working his ass off for YOUR benefit.

[Robin Hood]

161. Since this won't necessarily reflect an accurate vote count.

I am in agreement that the Admin should either impose the rules or disregard them as they see fit, without a vote on the issue.

[Dookus]

164. It is my understanding...

that the vote will occur once this flaw is fixed. And that's to the great credit of the admins.

THEY continue to act like responsible adults, despite all the childishness they have to deal with here.

They're much more patient than I am, that's for sure.

[newyawker99]

242. Dookus, isn't it a shame that people find a way to joke

about this? If it were their websites, I am sure they would not find the situation humorous. I think all of us take this site for granted. We sometimes think we can do anything we want and there will be no consequences. I consider what this guy did a form of hacking. He tampered with something that DID NOT BELONG TO HIM!!! Instead of informing Admin immediately when he saw the problem, he chose to take advantage of it to suit his own purpose. And yet some people find this so very amusing!

A lot of time, money and thought went into the creation of this website and it is a damn shame to see it abused this way.

To those who find this amusing I can only say that I hope it never happens to you.

[blondeatlast]

166. I don't think it is a good idea to be pushing Skinner's buttons right now!

Skinner can do whatever he wants.

Including tombstoning whomever he wants.
Not cute, not cute at all.

[blondeatlast]

169. GOOD ON YA, SKINNER (or whomever)!

:yourock:

I am so glad you deleted this post (or to whomever did).

This isn't the time to be pushing the buttons or toeing the line, gang. If Admin wants to start throwing its weight around for a while, fine by me!

[Dookus]

172. for the record...

I did NOT delete it. But I applaud whoever did.

[blondeatlast]

195. Me too!

[Generic Other]

186. Okay...so now SCOTUS will get to decide?

Or do we count the vote again?

Some of us were disenfranchised completely. And I'm not even a felon!

[EarlG]

194. We will completely redo the vote

As soon as we've patched the exploit. We want to do it as soon as possible - hopefully tomorrow - so keep checking the GD forum. We'll try to give as much notice as possible before the vote begins. The vote will still last for a full 24 hours.

Thanks,
EG

[Crewleader]

209. This guy rapid_nerd should be Real Ashamed of himself.........

I just can't believe he thought this vote didn't mean anything. He just wanted his way and push that NO vote. Talk about eating your own, and that's what GD was becoming all the time.

I am very disgusted to see this happen and it does stir the anger what we all went through in 2000 elections and rapid_nerd supports nobody but his own agenda and we don't need that type here.

Thank You Skinner, Earl G and Elad...for doing this, I've always asked, put it to a vote so we could feel like a whole community so everyone counts and whatever is deceided we will work together.
I thank you so very much for that and now you all are working it out to have another vote. You can't ask for better friends to be fair for all and try to make DU the best it can be.

It takes all of us...a community of friends and I am very thankful that I was watching MSNBC on January 20, 2001 and saw the DU sign and joined DU with some mighty fine Democrats who are my very good friends! Thanks guys and thanks everyone for pulling together so we can have a fair vote no matter which way it goes we start supporting one another for the hell of fight we have ahead of us!

Together we can do it!!! Democratic Solidarity!

[Fridays Child]

218. I'm sticking with what Crew says.

She's a wise woman.

Hi, Crew! :hug:

[cmd]

190. Sign me disappointed

Mr. Nerd, you have some growing up to do.

[Terwilliger]

191. heh

WELLLLLLLLL it was an interesting thought

[inthecorneroverhere]

193. That is sleazy but I also see the point re: paperless elections

I mean, maybe a point was made about the ease of electronic election-rigging, but it was still kind of sleazy.

But, yes, point well taken about elections without paper trails...I'm old enough to cherish that paper ballot stub. Years ago, in California, the paper stubs had a background of the Cal bear and the words, "I have voted - have you?" They were intended to show out the top of a shirt pocket.

By the way, I just logged on. Didn't click the thread OR attempt to vote until now.

Mine would have been a 'yes' vote.

Am I a DE DUer? (disenfranchised DUer) ;)

edit: describe Cally stubs

[SingSong]

198. Here's how I see it

No matter if your vote would have been yes or no, this is outrageous. I will say I would have voted yes.

An apology for screwing up the votes of hundreds (thousands?) of DU folks is not sufficient. None of us is perfect, but this was not something done as a result of inebriation. This was a deliberate attempt to subvert the voting rights and will of the members of DU. That time, energy and even money was taken away from the people who run this site should not be trivialized. This is not a trivial action. I would seek legal counsel to recoup losses based on the above damages.

Confessing after having committed a horrendous act, and expecting others to understand and rally around you is a Republican type of behavior. It is not the behavior of a responsible, thoughtful adult. I hope whoever votes in his little election for whatever make sure there is a paper trail.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[dweller]

227. well said, and remember

he claims to be 'bi-partisan' on his website.

i guess both sides gets f*cked.

dp

[Art_from_Ark]

199. Was it really an adult who did this?

I'm scratching my head over this. An adult, liberal politician, with apparently excellent liberal credentials, calling himself "Rabid Nerd", is strange enough, but to deliberately sabotage a web site poll, knowing that he can be easily traced, goes beyond my belief. However, hearing that he has a family leads me to suspect that a teenager may have been behind this prank. I can't for the life of me understand how a serious politician would do something like this, but I can well imagine a goofy 14- or 15-year-old trying to pull such a stunt.

[blondeatlast]

200. He does have a history on the board . . .

He's made some rather strange postings in the past.

[Art_from_Ark]

210. I've noticed that

And that's another reason why it seems to me that a teenager could have been behind it. The adult has so many positions of responsibility that I don't see how he could have been appointed/elected to all of them if he were so, well, unbalanced. But a teenager is a different story. He (assuming it's a he) might think he's helping his dad by posting here, but at the same time he would be prone to pulling some real boners, like the current stunt.

[Coventina]

203. What I personally find most disturbing

is the idea that he had rigged DU opinion polls in the past.

Now, you could say that in this particular instance, the "victims" were DU members and Administrators. But if opinion polls were rigged (and never discovered and corrected) then all readers/viewers of DU were left with a mistaken impression of what is truly going on here at DU. We don't know who all visits this site, but I found out the hard way that we are under surveillance, and what we post matters.

It is UNFORGIVABLE, in my opinion, that the opinions of some DU members were misrepresented to the world, by another DU member.
This one instance, where it affected an internal (for the most part) DU matter, one might write it off as a very ill-conceived prank (though I don't blame the admins for banning him ONE BIT!). But to, in a sense, lie about DU to the world is absolutely unacceptable.

[Dr Fate]

207. I would have voted Yes-

And as for that dirty disruptor- well- I shall not break the rules...

[Wickerman]

213. I thought I would write something really scathing about

RN when I came on here. I was plenty pissed. Pissed for the time I wasted to make sure that I could vote early - even though it created problems for me to get on during the day to do so.

I was pissed for the owners of the site and the mods who had to put up with the hassle all this caused.

As I read on this thread I was pissed that Elad had to be called from his day job to fix the problem.

I just can't say the nasty crap that I intended to, though. I am just in the hopes that RN gets some help. This is sad and pathetic.

To have not understood what havoc he was causing demonstrates an alarming inability to understand the simple principles of cause and effect. I hope he gives some serious consideration to his fitness to run for public office.

The only way that I feel sorry for him is that he now has shut off an avenue of support he did have. A true shame.

[VOX]

214. It's a cold, dirty thing when one of our own pulls this crap...

This constitutes a betrayal of trust (among other things), and as such, is very hard to just shake off or emotionally square away. It's astonishing, in the most terrible way.

For God's sake, rabbit_nerd is a candidate for McSherrystown Borough Council in PA. Is *this* what his potential constituents can expect from him?

[ShaneGR]

215. I have sympathy, but this guy should never again be allowed to post here

He tampered with past poll results and attempted to rig this one. I do understand that it proves a point about online elections, but I think this was more about pure mischevious behavior. It's just simply too much.

[hunter]

216. Well damn it all...

Especially when I wake up next week and Arnold is governor.

No, no, I don't condone this, having wasted an hour or two just today dealing with some bad shit that came down my own pipe, but...

...rabid_nerd is sorta like that gorilla that escaped from the zoo, and I consider gorilla people, but I hated it that he knocked down and bit some other people, especially the kid. But it wasn't funny, and it really irked me to hear people making jokes about it on the radio.

Hey, by the way, if some of you anti-BBV guys here "get it" now that would be a very good thing. The Black Box Voting programmers are drunken clowns compared to the guys who run DU. Make some lemonaide out of these lemons.

Skinner, EarlG, et. al., you are like gods to me, to manage this zoo!

Thank you.

[seventhson]

219. Was Rabid Nerd a CLARKIE???

anybody know

just wondering WHY and whom he might think this would help???

[bicentennial_baby]

220. Will you quit it?

This thread is so not the place for your fixation, seriously.

[eileen_d]

222. No, your highness

He was in favor of drafting Gore

Please find some other method of slamming candidates you don't like... :freak:

[seventhson]

229. I was JUST ASKING...Jeez

who knew?

[eileen_d]

230. You were just getting a little "dig" in at Clark and his supporters.

Same stuff, different day. Anyway, I apologize if you were offended by me. I'm not offended by you, just tired.

[seventhson]

232. Not offended - But do the proposed rules HELP or HURT strategy???

for any candidate.

I tend to think they hurt the Clarkies

So I thought maybe there was an incentive to defeat the proposal

But since I have NO idea whether rabid nerd is a Clarkie I wondered if anyone KNEW.

The proposal does not really affect Gore so ....


????


Nerd did it to point out the flaws in such votes and polls.

THAT in itself is reason to thank him at least for THAT


It is the Diebold problem

[blondeatlast]

228. Thank you--I shall be voting "yes."

Sheesh.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

233. No he was at least as big of a contribution here as you are

[Dookus]

236. that's ridiculous

there's no reason to make THIS fiasco about partisan primary politics. jeebus...

[eileen_d]

226. If I were an admin

(and of course I'm not) I'd shut GD down.

First the whining about "the horrible, regressive state of GD," then the whining about "the horrible, oppressive rules" -- then a vote which was, as someone said earlier, a COURTESY on the part of the admins. Then the vote gets hacked by a complete assclown, who even gets DEFENDED by certain people on this thread for "just being a prankster?"

Shut GD down. It's more than what we deserve.

[Robin Hood]

234. I would like to volunterr,

for the hanging chad counter position.

[Elad]

237. FYI, the exploit has been patched

I'm sure Skinner will make a formal announcement in the morning, but for those worried about current polls, the exploit used has been patched and it is no longer possible to use that exploit to skew the results of polls posted on DU.

[Dookus]

238. elad -

I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say "thank you". I know this was a crisis-job for you and I, for one, really appreciate not just the work you did today, but ALL the work you do to keep this board running.

Muchas gracias, amigo. I'd love to buy you a drink someday.

[Governor Davis]

241. So can this guy get other scheduled votes cancelled?

Until a certain action hero has the guts to debate me.

[Woodstock]

243. CAN THIS BE STRESSED IN THE RULES

Make the title of a thread as descriptive as possible.

Starting a thread is time consuming, if you have something you want to share that you think is important, and you want to set it up properly with excerpts, links, etc. Then to find that someone has started one already, but under an obscure title that made it impossible for you to know it was about what you want to talk about, then to have the thread you worked on get locked, is a drag.

I look through sometimes as many as 8 pages of threads before posting a new one to make sure it's not a dupe. But if the existing thread has an obscure title, how am I supposed to know it's about what I want to post? And worse yet, lots of people might have passed by the obscurely titled thread who would have been interested, if they knew what it was about. So the only chance to talk about something gets passed by.