How Did Wes Clark do on MTP with Timmy?

[leftchick]

I missed that general round table and would love to know how Wes did. Any feedback and highlights are appreciated.

[TahitiNut]

1. Buried in horseshit.

Only an insanely optimistic person would keep digging and looking for a pony. :eyes:

[bitchkitty]

3. Love it!

Only an insanely optimistic person would keep digging and looking for a pony.

[capi888]

2. Here is a review ....

However, it will be repeated this evening. MTP replays. I assume there will be videos posted, but MSNBC has a podcast on their site. Here is a review, but Wes Clark was the only one who said it like it is "Strategic Blunder"!

Wes Clark is the only Gen, that stated the facts, initiated a strategy, dicussed the ultimate outcome as it is being handled NOW! Said it was a "Stategic Blunder"! He said, we need diplomacy with the neighbors. He didn't pull any punches, McCaffery agreed with Wes twice. Meigs and Downing, were coached by the Adminstration and put a positive spin...in my opinion! To some extent, so did McCafferty, also stating he was with the Administration, in going to war..geeze!

[Strelnikov_]

12. Downing Was The Gen. Who Thought All We Needed To Do

was drop the 101st into Baghdad Intl. and the regime would fall.

His thinking is why they went in without enough troops to stabilize the country.

Guy is a modern day (Sir Bernard L.) Montgomery.

[leftchick]

14. He is certifiable

a neo-con in uniform.

[xultar]

26. Glad to hear you can take an objective view.

[leftchick]

32. and that means what?

He is a war hawk who sounds just like the Generals during Vietnam. Putting lipstick on a pig won't solve the problem for Iraqis or our troops. Read the link provided by Algorem for an idea as to how that guy thinks. It is scary.

On edit: from the link... The man is in LaLa land

GEN. DOWNING: Well, Tim, 12 of 16 provinces, which is two-thirds of the country, are going to be peaceful and are going to have great development. I think two of the three Sunni provinces are going to come around. I think Al Anbar province, which is from Baghdad on out to the Iraqi border around Al-Khem, is still going to be a pest, though. I think we're still going to have this link of the jihadists coming in from Syria and some of the former Ba'athists using this as a base area. I do think that in another year or 15 months, we're going to be able to start taking the U.S. forces down somewhat, because I think the Iraqi forces are going to be in strength of about 150,000 of both police and army. So I'm very, very positive. And I'm giving you this without any political motive. You know, I'm giving you this as a military analyst. But speaking from the fact that military operations are conducted for larger ends, not for ends of themselves--political, social, economic--I think this thing is going to go the right way.

[xultar]

35. That you did. Sorry for paying you a compliment. GEEZ

[leftchick]

44. I am sorry

I really could not tell what you mean't to say in your post. I was not sure but I thought you were being sarcastic that is why I asked. I hope I did not offend, I just thought it was obvious where these hawks are coming from.

:)

peace,
lc

[xultar]

45. I can applaud people who give their objective opinions whether I

agree or not.

Peace to you!
X

[speedoo]

4. He did OK.

He was outnumbered in that the other 3 generals are still optimistic. He got in plenty of good shots about the way the CowardinChief and his cronies have mismanaged the War, and none of the other three could disagree with him on that.

I'm still not sold on Clark as the President who can lead us out of this mess, but I sure would like to see him as say Secretary of Defense.

It was actually a very interesting discussion, particularly at the end when they all seemed to agree that our defense forces have taken a major hit with this mess, particularly in terms of recruitment, losing junior officers and non-coms, and maybe most of all, reserves and National Guard.

[RandomUser]

10. He can't be SecDef

Needs to be 10yrs out of uniform to be eligible for SecDef (Wes retired in 2000, I think).

But I'm hoping he's on the top of the ticket :)

[FreedomAngel82]

18. I think Clark should be something in a democratic administration

He'd do well. I'm not sure yet of him for president myself since he doesn't have anything else experience wise with the government, but besides all that I really like him and he is doing pretty well on these shows. And people can't say he doesn't "support the troops" or anything like that. They have to respect him and what he says. I really love that. Didn't Hannity or O'Reilly one time try to tell Clark they knew more about military then him? LOL. A four star general, yeah right. LOL.

[ThomWV]

29. Secretary of State

Make him Secretary of State or Vice President with Al Gore filling the top of the ticket.

[kevsand]

30. That was O'Reilly, I think,

and yes, it was hilarious. Clark more than holds his own against these guys, and does it with a grace and charm that has to be seen to be believed.

One of his problems is overcoming the perception you mentioned, that he doesn't have any experience in government. As head of NATO, he had administrative responsibility for a population that was equal or larger to many U.S. states, and that responsibility included everything: schools, hospitals, housing, provisions, etc. Few governors have ever had that level of responsibility.

And as for knowing how Washington works, he spent time during his career as a staffer for a couple of different D.C. agencies. Combine that with his experience in working with foreign heads of state while at NATO, and Clark is a lot more well-rounded in terms of his resume than a lot of people realize.

[AllyCat]

42. Personally, I see the "government experience" as a negative

with most candidates. Not being a DC insider was one of the things that appealed to me about him before he even put his hat in the ring for 2004.

As others here have stated, he has had to deal with a "whole village" and all it's problems and benefits in his 34 years with the military.

I'd take him as POTUS any day over many, many of the previous or future candidates.

[xultar]

27. I'm glad you took an objective look. Even though you still aren't sold

at least you took an unbiased view. I can respect that.

[kevinmc]

5. Watching right now..........

Clark is doing well.

[Algorem]

6. transcript-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9064938/

[leftchick]

15. thank you Algorem

I didn't know it was up yet.

:hi:

[Algorem]

19. I was surprised they do it at all,I think ABC charges for them

[elfin]

7. Fantastic of course

The first time I watched MTP from beginning to end. All generals and all had harsh things to say about the premises and tactics of the administration and of Rumsfeld - although most did not say his name as they criticized.

All but one weasled at the round up query about what Iraq would look like in a year. All but one of the said it would be OK after blasting the operation for the rest of the show-- but Clark stuck to his analysis and predicted a bad situation with a President who would declare success and pull troops in time for the elections.

He emphasized over and over that it is a regional problem and that there is no meaningful diplomacy going on with Iran, Syria etc. and that without it the process is guaranteed to fail.

[MADem]

8. He did well

Best of the lot, frankly. There still was not a forceful voice at the table that told the Iraq tale as it is really unwinding, but he held up the side better than the rest of the whingers. He did explain clearly the mindset of the senior military leadership, and pointed out that if you, as a Flag or General officer, cannot get over a disagreement with the civilian leadership, which, by our Constitution, exercises control over the military, that you need to RESIGN and speak out, not sit on your ass and take orders that your character and conscience have difficulty with. He then went on to say that those still in the job are, in essence, COMPLICIT in the Iraq postwar planning, because they haven't left. It's THEIR baby, and they cannot slough it off on the stinky SECDEF, even if he is calling the shots. An important distinction, and well made.

Timmy Two Shoes appeared REMARKABLY subdued, and I suspect he is under some serious stress. He's fatter than ever, and the "Big Russ and Me" twinkle in his eye, which was no doubt fueled by avarice and lust for power and recognition, is gone.

Grand Jury woes, mayhaps?

[leftchick]

13. Thank You MADem and all you folks for the reviews...

Wes obviously made some good points. I knew the other three were Hawks who take me back to the Vietnam war every time I hear them. They have no shame because I believe they KNOW Iraq is on a doomed course.

Glad to hear timmy is suffering for his whoring. That is good news.
:)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. Timmy did pretty well with the Iraqi who was on to defend the

new Iraqi Constitution. The first thing Timmy did was to point out that the Constitution was overruled by Islamic Law, and is that what over 1800 Americans gave up there life for?

The Iraqi representive kept tap dancing and never sufficiently answered the questions.

[MADem]

21. He did ask the questions, but he did not raise the horseshit flag

Funny how ole Potato(e--GOPspell) Head can go after Dean with fangs, but cannot tear up an Iraqi apologist for BusHalliburtonCo.

The "journalist" (term used advisedly) should have pressed, prodded, demanded a yes/no, up/down...in essence, used the same tactics that he uses whenever he has a Democrat on the show. But no, he didn't--can't anger the corporate bosses, and hell, he just may need a BushCo pardon one day!

I think FatBoy is a whore...a cheap one at that!!!

[joanski0]

38. That's because that wasn't an Iraqi.

That was the new American Ambassador to Iraq, the person who replaced Negroponte. I watched his confirmation hearing on C-Span. That guy previously had been the Ambassador to Afghanistan. So he was speaking for this mal-Administration.

[FreedomAngel82]

20. Interesting observation on Russert

Hm. I wonder what's up with that. Usually he's so cheery.

[MADem]

23. He is walking a line between GOP loyalty and JAIL time

He's like a fatcat on a collapsing fence--which way will he jump?

http://www.anycities.com/andyhifi/news/timrussert.htm

The abovelink from someone out there in cyberspace is interesting!!!

And this could still be troubling him: "Specifically, Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper and NBC Washington Bureau Chief Tim Russert were asked to appear before the grand jury to testify regarding alleged conversations they had with a specified Executive Branch official," Hogan writes. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53622-2004Aug10.html

And this: Libby Told Different Story Than Russert to Special Prosecutor. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that he first learned from NBC News reporter Tim Russert of the identity of Central Intelligence Agency operative Valerie Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush Administration critic Joseph Wilson, one person said. Russert has testified before a federal grand jury that he didn't tell Libby of Plame's identity, the person said. http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/m-news+article+storyid-12150.html

So, did he lie to protect his pals, and knows he will be caught out, or did he rat out his pals, and is looking behind him in case a knife appears in his back suddenly? He's caught between a GOP rock and a Special Prosecutor Hard Place....

Couldn't happen to a nicer shill.

[leftchick]

33. whoopsies! If I were timmy

I would not be flying in any small planes. Or stay alone in any Hotel rooms.

[johnaries]

9. Clark was great! Told the truth and smacked B* Admin

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9064938/

Iraq in a year:
"Continuing political disagreements, strong insurgency, strong terrorist movement, a drawdown in U.S. forces, an administration that claims success, continuing concerns about the Islamization of the political process in Iraq, growing encroachments on Iraqi sovereignty from neighboring states and continuing efforts as the United States starts to pull out, other nations start to go in. Iraq's on the fault line between Shia and Sunni Islam. And we can't fix that. We've got to help fix it and we won't. I don't see this administration making the diplomatic effort required. So what I see is they're doing a minimalist job trying to put a papier-mache government together and use that with the training of forces and then try to pull out forces here in time for the 2006 elections. I think, you know, the question is five years and 10 years down the line. This would be a government that we won't be--it'll be a state that we won't necessarily be proud of having created. "

[BootinUp]

11. His main point

and one that the other three pretty much disagreed with him on, was that the neighboring countries are not being engaged in the process. Therefore, they are fighting for their interests in other ways. Iraq is on the faultline of Sunni and Shite Islam. Bring these other countries together and get their issues out in the open. Otherwise the country will be torn apart by the competing factions.

[bluedeminredstate]

22. That was an important point

because it's in the cards if Bush keeps "staying the course" and yet it never comes up in the pseudo debates that pass for information on the political shows.
I thought he was very tough on the administration and the yes-men generals that occupy the Pentagon. Again, something new that no one has dared to say - - resign you cowardly bastards instead of taking orders from a fuck-up like Rumsfeld.

:thumbsup:

:loveya:

[Dinger]

17. He Was The Star!

Timmy did not screw with him, and Wes got in some good shots, without needing Timmy's "permission." He was respectful of the other generals, and actually, the other generals were respectful of him too. One said he disagreed with Wes, but I for one, like discourse and those who agree to disagree.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

24. I was never a big Clark fan

so as an unbiased observer, I have to say that he was outstanding. Nice to hear some actual constructive ideas instead of the same old talking points. I will give him much more serious consideration in 2008.

[xultar]

25. I'm glad you were able to take an objective look. Even if you didn't like

Clark afterwards.

I like hearing that people are willing to take an objective look.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

34. I think he made a positive impression with a lot of viewers today.

n/t

[stepnw1f]

28. He Did Really Well

He basically said the war is lost. Now it's a matter of changing strategy by getting international help, which in turn means Bush's oil venture is going to have to be squashed.

Those who have invested an economic interest into Iraq are going to get hit really hard if the "strategy" changes. Will it happen.... yes. By "We the People".

Suckers!

[judy from nj]

31. I thought he was great.

I especially liked his reply to Downing who said that the Bush administration is following a diplomatic tract secretly. He said he has talked to administration officials and they are not doing the diplomacy. He called for a conference with all the surrounding states. That the US needs to find the common areas of agreement. He also pointed out without getting buyin from the neighboring countries, the neighbors will move into Iraq.

[kevsand]

36. I just finished reading the transcript,

since we don't get to watch in the morning, but now I can't wait for tonight's replay. It seems pretty obvious from the text which guy in the room had a brain and two wide open eyes.

Clark: "I just can't stand to see the sacrifices men and women in uniform and their families make when this administration won't lift its finger the right way diplomatically to give them the help they need to succeed in Iraq."

[YvonneCa]

37. He was FANTASTIC ! ! !

My letter to WESPAC:


General Clark,

Thank you for the EXCELLENT job you did today on Meet the Press. The discussion about the war in Iraq was insightful and long overdue. I know, if the American people are watching, they are becoming better educated on the situation, due to your efforts. I respect all the military leaders who took part in today's discussion, but I totally agree with your assessments on Iraq. It can't have been easy to state that truth in front of the others there. I know you respect them, too. But I thank you for doing so.

I want you to know I voted for you last year in the Presidential primary, and kept e-mailing Senator Kerry (after he won the nomination) to tell him to choose you for his Vice-President. I still believe our country needs the two of you to lead us. I don't know how things will turn out in 2008 (still worried about 2006), but I know I'll vote for either you or Senator Kerry, if either of you runs again.
Sincerely,



:patriot:

[FrenchieCat]

39. The man was primo! It was 3 stepford Generals and one 4 star leader....

:thumbsup:
Podcast.... http://securingamerica.com/ccn/mtp050828

[autorank]

40. Great site Frenchie...I signed up.

Clark must be a great leader because I never watch Timmie.

He is the one Democrat out there who is not tied to the problems of our party:

-- he's not tied to any past losses;
-- he's not tied to the wimpy current behavior of many Dems (e.g. Bayh)
-- he is not tied to the "willing to lose mentality as long as I have a
job" that seems to pervade DNC/DLC

He does represent:

-- intelligence
-- clarity and
-- integrity.

He opposed Iraq from DAY 1. He said he was a "liberal" when asked without blathering around. He's got the successful track record and resume to lead this country as it's next PRESIDENT.

[cheeto]

41. Wes Clark's Expression

when Gen. Downing disagreed with Wes and said there was diplomacy going on behind the scenes.

Love it!

www.yellowdogdem.com/expression.WMV (3 MB)

[xultar]

46. I applaud him for being able to keep his mouth closed. I wouldda

been like WTF planet are you from.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

47. That expression was priceless!

Downing going on about diplomacy in the works and Clark's sideways glance saying "and pigs fly."

And welcome to DU, cheeto. :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

48. That was pretty evident.....

That expression on Wes' face was that of...."I'm sitting next to a stoopid fool talking about "invisible" Diplomacy, and the freepers want to call me crazy? Right!"

[DanCa]

43. Wes was out numbered and still kicked butt.

They didn't give him enough air time imo.

[xkenx]

49. No One, But No One

Can present complicated issues with clarity of thought and delivery as Wes Clark. His character and integrity shone through in this discussion. Not since Bobby Kennedy have I been so inspired by a public figure. POTUS in 2008, if we all work towards the nomination of a true Democrat, not Republican-lite as are those sellouts now positioning themselves.