A plea for a real debate about the 10 Democratic candidates

[Styles]

Needless to say, most of us have very strong opinions about what candidate speaks most loudly to us. Now... after seeing post after post of bashing everyone but the one we support... I'm beginning to think that we are losing focus of the bigger picture... getting the chimp and the neocons out of the Whitehouse.

No matter what the result of the primaries, someone here is going to be all heartbroken and/or pissed off at the result. What we need to do is begin to start sharing our opinions in a way that doesn't result in a stupid, completely mindless flame war. I suggest instead of saying what you hate about the candidate you like the least... start talking about what you like the best about the candidate you like the most.

If you have something bad to say about a candidate, instead of saying "Candidate A is not worthy of my vote and I would rather vote for Candidate B then him anyday"... provide a link to a reputable website that provides some more information so that we can all come to our own conclusions. If you can't prove it... it's not real. Just like WMD... it's that simple.

In case you don't know, the likelyhood of some lurkers from FreeRepuke is extremely high... there are people on this very site who want BushCo to stay in the Whitehouse at all costs, and have no desire for an honest debate and primary.... we could end up getting screwed over simply by misinformation.

I hope that one day everyone here can discuss why their choice for the leader of the democratic party is well established without someone else slamming them for their beliefs without any well established FACTS.

[Speck Tater]

1. My two cents for Dean

Dean has gotten me excited about politics for the first time in 50 years. He's had that effect on a lot of others as well. Regardless of the fact that I disgree with him on a few policy issues, and regardless of the fact that I'm probably closer to Kucinich philosophically, Dean is doing something that will be very necessary to not only oust Bush, but re-energize the Democratic party. He's bringing new blood into the process, and recruiting new activists in numbers that exceed anything in my experience.

So for me it's not so much about nit-picking the issues. I'm always going to disagree with some of the stands taken by any politician. My support is not about issues, its about process. Washington D.C. is owned and operated by corporate "clients". Politicians rarely mention the word "constituent" any more, but discuss endlessly the needs of their "clients." Dean is about taking a step in the right direction and beginning to restore the voice of the people in government. He's about empowering constituents, not servicing clients. And that fundamental difference in process is why I would continue to support Dean even if I had disagreements with him on all of his positions.

I support Dean because he will win, and because he will make a difference in balance of power in DC between big money interests and the welfare of the common man. I can't support Kucinich because even though he would try to make positive changes, his goals are too ambitious to ever be reached in the reality of Washington politics. We need to take steps on the right direction, which leaves the choice of Dean and Kucinich. But we need those steps to be reaslitic rather than idealistic, which leaves only Dean.

(edited for typo)

[janekat]

4. He has changed campaign finance forever - give him credit for that

He's #5 on my list of candidates but I have to give him credit (or at least give moveon.org). Don't know who was actually instrumental in that.

[Redneck Socialist]

2. I agree mostly...

"...start talking about what you like the best about the candidate you like the most."

I too would like to see everyone here be more positive, but when you write

"I hope that one day everyone here can discuss why their choice for the leader of the democratic party is well established without someone else slamming them for their beliefs without any well established FACTS."

you loose me.


Unfortunately politics doesn't have all that much to do with facts. It is mostly about perceptions and feelings. Who do you feel is the best candidate? Who do you perceive to be most trustworthy? These are the questions people answer when they vote. They may not be able to back up their choice with facts and indeed their reasons for supporting a candidate might be quite illogical. (Look at all the support bushco still has.)

Basing all the discussion on this board on facts just ain't gonna happen, nor should it.

[Styles]

6. in regards to facts

I have to agree with you that politics are mostly perceptions and feelings. My point with this sentence is about starting rumours, for example: Clark being a neocon spy. Completely unproven, damaging to potential supporters here, and difficult to disprove (other then using common sense... which few people have).

I don't suggest using facts to prove everything that is posted here... but I think we need to unite together as democrats to have a debate about these candidates. Perhaps in a single productive thread

[Redneck Socialist]

7. true, true

For me a big part of the appeal of this board and politics in general are the passions they inspire. I agree that too much "my candidate's great, yours sucks" goes on here. Unfortunately I don't think we will see the end of that until the primaries are over. I hope, hope, hope, that it will end end then

[janekat]

3. Apparently - they give out marching orders for freepers to come

over here every so often. Happens a lot I'm sure. I actually posted a post over there once about some article they had posted being propaganda - within 2 minutes - the post was gone.

[janekat]

5. We do have to discuss the "pros" and the "cons" - but stick to issues

n/t