The people in the Superdome might be in a deathtrap.

[Sannum]

Local feed from WDSU says that the roof is damaged....rain is coming into the building and people are starting to panic:cry:

[Connie_Corleone]

1. Yeah. I'm listening to it!

The reporter sounds really worried.

[Sannum]

3. If this happens.

We are witnessing one of the great tragedies of our time. They should have been bused to safety! Now, they might as well be in a fucking house right now!

[Waya]

2. Haven't heard any of that.....

...but I was wondering yesterday if it was such a good idea to open the Superdome as a shelter.

[maddezmom]

4. the reporter sounds nervous

worried about the integrity of the roof

[ohio_liberal]

5. I just woke up, have a question....

The worst of the storm hasn't hit yet, correct? The winds aren't at top speeds, I mean. So they could be looking at catastrophic failure of the roof?

[benburch]

7. Correct.

The worst should hit NOLA at about 11 Central

[BeFree]

14. Might not be so bad

From what I can tell Katrina is now moving to the NE, away from downtown NO. I estimate top wind of 110 at the Superdome. They may be ok there, a little rain is not so bad.

The worst thing now is that the wind blows the water in Lake Ponchatrain (sp?) south into the city. But at the same time blowing the Mississipi river south, away from the city.

It appears the very worst will not occur for the heavily populated downtown of NO.

Biloxi however, is looking like it will get hit dead on.

It also appears that the storm is rapidly calming.

The worst thing might now be how much rain falls, but with the storm moving away from NO at 15 mph, the rain may be minimized.

Whew!

[benburch]

6. Water might get in without the roof coming down.

I hope so, at least.

[Massacure]

9. Condensation I would assume?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I Watched The People Going To The Superdome

You could tell it was mostly working class white and black folks...

These natural disasters illustrate the inequities that plague us...


Most people of means got the fuck out of Dodge....

[HereSince1628]

13. I agree, Is the power back on in the dome?

Earlier the same station said the power was out.

[Massacure]

22. The dome has enough generator power for emergency lighting.

[Spinzonner]

8. It might be designed to withstand winds from the outside

but a large enough breach might allow the high speed winds and pressures under the dome. Not clear if it's safe under those conditions.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Was In An Atrium Hotel In Orlando For Hurricane Frances

We never lost power and the storm had lost much of its punch but the howling of the vents in the atrium were scary...

There has to be some vents to allow the air in for circulation as well as protection...

I can't imagine what it most sound like.

[Spinzonner]

12. Would the 'vents' be for pass through

or part of an active circulation system that requires some power ? (I'd imagine safe design would require the former.)

And, of course, if they have to be opened, hope someone remembers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I Think The Vents Are There

As they are in houses to let some air in to absorb the wind ...


I am sure there are some bright DUers who know about construction that can elaborate....

Anyway, the Superdome was built to withstand 200 mph winds.... Even if they were off by 50%!!! they would be fine...


My concern is the duration of time those poor folks will be there....

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. Where are the specs that claim that the Superdome

was built to withstand 200 MPH wind. I've seen this number thrown around since yesterday and I would like to see the proof because I don't believe it.

Even if the building can withstand 200 MPH wind, what about the roof. How old is that? How many years past its expected life are we past at this point?


Thanks.

[MildyRules]

24. The roof will hold

The Superdome will be just fine. I've not seen the 200 mph number, just 130mph, but since the Dome in its entirety is built to withstand winds of 130mph (the figure I've heard since the Dome was built), the roof can handle it too.

[DoYouEverWonder]

42. According to the latest report on the M$M

the roof has already started to come apart. They are moving the people from one side to the other and the worst of the storm is just coming in. The situation is still under control but that can easily change at any time.

Even if the building holds there are 10,000+ people in there. The Superdome is not a safe location. They had time yesterday to bus and disburse all those people to other shelters inland. Even if one shelter failed 1000 people getting in trouble is a lot better then 10,000. This is the fault of extremely poor planning on the part of Homeland Security who is now in charge of disaster relief in this country.

[MildyRules]

44. We'll see in a few hours won't we?

A little wager? I say the roof will hold and the people in the SD will be a lot safer there than just about anywhere else in NO.

[ohio_liberal]

23. Duration of time...

Yes, this is my biggest concern. Sitting around in wet clothes even for a couple of days can't be healthy. I know people brought changes of clothing, but I imagine it's possible that everything is getting damp.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. It is not designed

for a Cat 4 or Cat 5 Hurricane. Very little in NO is.

That is why it was criminal to use the Superdome has a shelter in the first place. I have been screaming since yesterday afternoon that they should have sent down buses to take the people that had gone there out of NO. Too bad we don't have a President who would even waste his time to think of such a thing himself.

[Spinzonner]

18. Not exactly the same question/issue

The dome might be resistive to a compressive force from the outside that works into and against its strength. If a significant breach allows aignificant wind into and underneath the dome, it might not have that strength to resist the lifting effect.

[jim3775]

30. That is ridiculous

The superdome was designed for a hurricanes and has been used as a shelter before. I also don't understand how using the safest building in the city as a shelter is criminal.

Doing the math it would have taken over 300+ buses to ship the people out of the superdome and that is not accounting for cargo space and the fact that the buses would have had to be in place before the hurricane hit.

I don't know how it is possible to round up 300+ buses and drivers and get them to NO within 1 days notice. Also, where would the people go once they get off the buses?

[sandnsea]

47. 300 school busses

Put them up at Fort Polk. This isn't complicated stuff. Just takes the will to get it done. The superdome was not designed for Cat 4 or 5 hurricanes.

[BikeWriter]

16. Please don't panic.

:(

[Thtwudbeme]

21. I hope the poor people in the storm don't panic; DUers in other areas

like myself in NC, can sit at the keyboard and panic all morning.

;)

Some of the posts on DU this morning, and into the afternoon are going to border on, or downright define "hysteria." You might as well get used to it.

Stephanie

[GOPisEvil]

26. It's like reading the Revelation sometimes.

I keep expecting four horsemen and for the Mississippi to start boiling.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I Don't Want To Step In This Briar Patch

but I expect when we wake up tomorrow morning the SuperDome will be largely intact. My conceren is without electricity that will be a most unpleasant place...

[GOPisEvil]

31. I know it's frightening for the people there.

I'm concerned for their safety in general, but more in the aftermath considering there might not be fresh water or electricity. I think the building will be fine. Shelter is not home; it's a place to keep you alive.

[MildyRules]

27. Well said, Steph

Hard to believe so many people not even in NO are doing their best Chicken Little impression.

[BikeWriter]

32. I was a professional firefighter and paramedic...

a survivor of several disasters, as well as a combat veteran. Conjecture about "deathtraps" is useless and counter-productive. There is nothing we can do until the storm is past. We should remain calm.

[Thtwudbeme]

36. Yes, I know. So was I.

I was never in the military though.

My point was that people like myself (I don't know anyone in the path of the storm, I am not in the path of the storm) can sit at their keyboards and post hysterical stuff, and it is not going to make one whit of difference in the great scheme of things. They aren't getting in the way...it's harmless train wreck gawking.

Stephanie

btw--before anybody bothers to flame me, of course I am upset over events like these. There are times I wish to hell I were still a paramedic, or kept my lisense active...so I could do volunteer work.

I am refering to internet panicking ONLY.

Steph

[BikeWriter]

43. We had a saying in VietNam that applies here...

"When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!"
This was usually used to describe the behavior of our "leadership." Pragmatically conserving energy until action served a purpose was the sensible approach, of course.

[expatriate]

37. Do I get to feel panic?

My kid is in the damn Superdome as we speak. He's legally a grown man, but he's mentally ill. He's also an insulin dependent diabetic. He insists on living life as a street person, yet his life matters to me. I am fifteen thousand miles away right now, and can do nothing to help him, while the roof is possibly coming off the Superdome. I hope I rate as being allowed to feel some panic here.

Yes, New Orleans will probably not be converted to an apocalyptic nightmare on the scale it would have certainly been had a Category 5 hurricane struck it directly (as it appeared was going to be the case, but hurricanes are notoriously hard to predict, particularly when they approach large land masses). However, there is going to be damage. Considerable damage. There may very well be loss of life. There will certainly be loss of services, health hazards and some very unbearable conditions, particularly for those poor bastards in the Dome.

I must say as someone who has reason to panic, those of you who have such scathing sarcasm about us Chicken Littles should just contain your smug superiority just a little bit - at least until we find out what the hell is going to happen here. The damn eye of this storm has barely made landfall yet, and ANYTHING could happen at this point.

[Thtwudbeme]

40. Did you note that I specifically was writing about

people who were not in the path of the storm, and did not know anyone in the path of the storm?

If I were you, I would be almost inconsolable now.

I will think of you for the rest of the day...please keep DU updated.

Stephanie

[expatriate]

46. Yes, I noted what you wrote about.

However, I have seen one too many post and thread along the lines of "well, New Orleans is not getting directly hit, so everything is okay, and everyone who talked about what the National Weather Service stated is just a panic monger, and getting off on the vicarious thrill of it all".

Perhaps some of the people here feel compassion, even if those in harm's way aren't someone they know. I felt a great deal of fear and sorrow one the day of the tsunami, even though I didn't personally know anyone who was affected - I live in that part of the world, and the effects of the tsunami affected everyone emotionally.

It is far too early, considering this storm has only begun to do what it's going to do, to declare New Orleans okay and to consider those who discussed official warnings from a scientific weather service as overdosing on panic. The storm could turn, it could go back out to sea and strengthen again. Hurricanes are very unpredictable once they get to large land masses.

I do appreciate your kind words and caring - perhaps this was the wrong thread to finally lose it on. But I just can't get the attitude that is building here that people who have expressed concern and fear for those who are in danger today are just panic mongers who are getting off on the thrill of it all.

[crispini]

45. (((HUG)))

sending peace, love and good energy your way and to your son now. Namaste.

[frankly_fedup2]

19. What an absolutely horrible possibility. Has the super dome ever

been used as a shelter before during a hurricane?

On MSNBC, who is talking to the coroner of east baton rouge (why in the world???).

It looks like people are coming out of there; however, which I don't blame them before the place panics. However, the winds are so bad now that the debris is going everywhere.

What can we do to help them?????

[GumboYaYa]

25. The Superdome has been used as shelter during hurricanes

in the past, but NO has not been hit by a storm this powerful in some time. Andrew came in from the bayou parishes and skirted around NO. There were a few in the eighteis like Juan and some others who's names I can't remember, but they were smaller storms.\

I was a baby when Camilee hit, but I have seen the pictures my grandoarents took. Storms this size are different beasts than a category 1 or 2.

[dogday]

29. Leaking and Power outage in the dome

as reported by CNN. They have got to be some scared folks. I understand the big part has not even hit them yet....

[demo dutch]

41. Andrew was terrible in FL, I'm very worried for the people especially the

children. Many of them were traumatized in'92

[expatriate]

34. It has been used as a storm shelter before

but not under Category 4-5 conditions. New Orleans has not been directly hit by any hurricane since Hurricane Betsy in 1965, which I believe was a Category 2-3 storm. This is one reason why people in New Orleans have become so complacent. There is a prevailing sentiment in New Orleans that hurricanes just don't hit the city, that it's charmed in some way, or the "lay of the land" deflects the hurricanes away from it. And similar nonsense.

It has been known to rain inside the Superdome as a result of condensation. This could be happening.

[Stephanie]

33. Reporter inside (CNN) says he can see sky - roof has peeled off in section

A section he estimates 1/12 of roof - he can see daylight straight up out of roof - rain & wind starting to pour in

[HamdenRice]

35. CNN reporting about 1/12 of roof peeling off superdome

That's what the correspondent on the spot is saying. This is scary.

[demo dutch]

38. If was afraid that might happen, if it's anything like hurricane Andrew

I'm very worried for those people especially the children they were traumatized in '92!

[Captain Hilts]

39. NO, they aren't. (nt)