Honda's Natural Gas Car-Hey it's a start

[noahmijo]

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+GX

Seems like a really cool idea. I say give it about 5 years or so before it would really take off on a nationwide basis though.

[3waygeek]

1. Nothing terribly new...

when I was an undergrad at Iowa State 20+ years ago, they had a fleet of natural-gas powered vans. I used to drive one occasionally as part of my on-campus job; it ran just like a gasoline-powered vehicle.

[noahmijo]

2. well that's the part that is new-it's going to be for consumer rather than

for fleet. :)

[BrotherBuzz]

13. The breakthrough is the ram pump

that converts natural gas to CNG in your home. I read an article about this innovation a couple of months ago. You can safely process a tank of CNG overnight with a small unit plumbed into your house natural gas line right in your garage. Fleet natural-gas powered vehicles are not new but they have never become popular with the public because of the difficulty locating the fuel. This innovation solves that problem to some degree, especially for local driving.

[wuushew]

3. This solves nothing

as with oil there is peak gas. Also increased demand for natural gas raises the price of home heating and agricultural fertilizer production.

[noahmijo]

4. fine then for your model they'll customize it so you can just fart into it

Better stock up on some California frijoles! B-)

[ConcernedCanuk]

5. "This solves nothing" - I disagree - think "emissions" . . .

.
.
.

"Natural gas is a clean burning, domestically produced fuel that generates significantly less carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, particulate matter, and nitrous oxide compared to similar fossil fuel vehicles. It is used in vehicles as compressed natural gas (CNG) or liquefied natural gas (LNG)."

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/factsheets/altfuel.html

and up here in Canukistan, it's also cheaper to run, engines last longer - even the engine oil hardly ever gets dirty - most of the dirt in engine oil is from the incomplete combustion of regular gasoline

even in the North here we have propane and natural gas powered vehicles

Natural gas and propane USED to be just vented off, a waste product, in some cases still is - depending on the market, and ease of capturing it from regular oil wells

Propane vehicles only are allowed INSIDE most work places now - just for that very reason of lower toxic emissions -

so in my mind

using natural gas - for the moment

SOLVES A LOT!!

dat's me Canuk opinion anyhoo . . . .

[NEOBuckeye]

6. I think you missed the point.

The Natural Gas peak is closer than most people realize. There isn't enough of it left to support an infrastructure the size of our current oil-dependent one for more than maybe a decade at best. And that's assuming that we could switch over to it tomorrow.

The best long-term bet is Solar- and Wind-based solutions, followed by hydrogen and fusion, which MIGHT work out for us over the long term.

[dweller]

7. a solar powered vehicle ...

what a concept. Every inch of the exterior body covered with solar gathering cells. A wind turbine on the top to pick up the draft as the vehicle is propelled forward, charging an electric battery that boosts the electric engine.

Put an electric motor on each wheel, independent, but controlled by a central program to run them in tangent with the steering and acceleration module.

you might go slower, but at least you'd go.
i'd leave it up to the home mechanic to hydro/fusion turbo the engine, pretty much the way they are currently tinkering with the hybrids.

whee
dp

[NEOBuckeye]

8. Think trains, light rail and high speed for land-based travel.

The economy will crash well before we can convert over to a new economic model -- a process that actually should have began decades ago.

Most people will be wiped out financially, and simply won't be able to afford to buy a new car right off the assembly line. Mass transit will be the way to go. Eventually, we could have hydro-electric buses, but they may not even prove to be too practical by the time they are available.

Suburbia is coming to an end, along with 2-hour, 100-mile-long single-occupant-per-vehicle commutes to work. Think consolidated, densely-populated cities and a return to family farming. That is our future.

[dweller]

9. i'm okay with that

would love to see a return to the Earth, family farming, co-ops, smaller economy in control.

but at the same time, where are our Edisons, Einsteins, those that can develop a new tech???
where are those willing to put in the grunt man/woman hours to find a way out?

believe me, i spend too much time speculating on an answer, and i don't have the training to work out many details. But i'm sure that with solidarity and purpose, it will be found. IF we can keep the corporate bandits out of the mix.

dp

[NEOBuckeye]

11. I wish I knew where they were. We do seem to be short on DOers with ideas.

Like Edison, like Ford. People who had the big ideas AND put them into action.

Maybe they're just laying low until the time is right? They'd probably be crushed if they stood up right now, by the current monopolistic corporate overlords.

[Massacure]

14. Keep dreaming.

[dweller]

15. keep sleeping

i don't waste my time.

dp

[Massacure]

16. 60 watts per square foot if the solar panel is 100% efficient.

So if your car is 15 feet long and 5 feet wide you will be able to collect 4500 watts of solar energy. That is equal to about six horsepower.

Of course the solar panels won't be 100% efficient. If they are 20% efficient you will get just over one horse power.

[dweller]

17. so, what's your alternative? ... Walk?

www.nanosolar.com


there has to be another way. It's time to crunch some brains together. Of course, we could walk and talk about it.
dp

[Massacure]

18. We need to get more mass transit and reverse urban sprawl.

Producing enough biodiesel for mass transit shouldn't be a problem. It would be a problem to produce enough to maintain our current way of life though.

Solar panels have uses, but putting them on cars isn't one of them. A horse would be more powerful and cheaper. :kick:

[Strelnikov_]

10. Another Technology Being Used To Convert Natural Gas

to transportation fuels is GTL (Methane To Liquids) to make 'clean' diesel (clean being relative in this case). One company has developed a modification of the process to build small plants to convert 'stranded' gas. That is, gas that is now burnt off since it cannot be economically collected and transported due to it's remote location. The company brief notes a potential of up to 3 M bbl/dy worldwide through conversion of this 'stranded' gas that would simply be flared off.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/03/syntroleum_targ.html

Company glossies:

http://www.syntroleum.com/media/brochure.pdf (.pdf)

http://www.syntroleum.com/media/Syntroleum_S2.pdf (.pdf)

Looking at the specs, I would sure like to fuel my TDI on this stuff. It would be an excellent fuel for a new generation of small diesel cars.

[lithiumbomb]

12. not gonna happen

Honda has been building these for about 10 years. And Ford has had CNG Crown Victorias for about the same amount of time, and virtually any car can be converted to CNG. The business model just isn't there. And ultimately, regardless of how wonderful these new, or old, technologies are, they will not be built in mass quantities if they are not somehow economically feasable. Toyota loses money on every Prius it sells, they're banking on people buying other Toyotas and the good publicity to bring in the money.

CNG vehicles are feasable for private and public fleets which have their own refueling facilities. And there's an obvious public benefit for moving urban diesel fleets over to CNG. But it's less efficient than gasoline, and much less so than diesel, so a private company and perhaps even the public are going to be hard to convince. The CNG civic gets 30/34 city/hwy, the base model gas DX gets 32/38. And costs about 7 grand less.

I think we'll see more development with alternate fuel vehicles once gasoline prices get _way_ up there. They're around 7-8 USD per gallon in europe and people are still in their cars, just much smaller and more efficient than what we americans tend to drive. I suspect what is probably the next radical thing we'll see beyond hybrids and super efficient gasoline engines is fuel cell electric cars, with the fuel cells powered by good old fashioned gasoline.
/babble