What is your opinion about looters?

[bluestateguy]

My own feeling is that a distinction should be drawn between somebody who is, say, pilfering food or bottled water for survival purposes, verses selfish people who steal luxury items just for the sake of private gain to take advantage of an emergency. The people in that latter category should be disposed of by the authorities.

[Deja Q]

1. I think authorities or those who control the food

should be civil enough to share it properly in the first damn place.

If they don't, then I cannot have a moral grudge against those who loot the food. But as we're not as much a society but a dog-eat-dog everyone-for-himself joke...




Edit: Spelling :dunce: Sticky keybozrd... but not from that...

[Clintmax]

8. I agree with YOU, Hypno...

They ought to be handing it out anyway. I can't fault those looting food.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Agreed

There is a difference between stealing out of necessity and stealing out of expedience.... I can countenance the former but not the latter....

[Daphne08]

25. Yes, there is, and I'm frankly disturbed by the

attitudes of some displayed on this forum concerning looting.

[gort]

56. steal a loaf of bread, get shot

steal 9 billion dollars from Iraq, get a no-bid government contract.

The sad thing is the Sheeple who watch Fox will be more outraged about the stealing of twinkies from a convenience store.

[Lancer]

3. If people have no food or water,

especially if they have young children or babies who need formula, I can hardly blame them. But my opinion is similar to yours if they are stealing electronics and other items not needed for immediate survival. Stealing is stealing, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. take on looters...

I have a hard time defending someone who would take someone else's property...even the property of a store owner or corporation. I believe people should be secure in their possessions from looters...and yes, that includes stores.

However, in light of the fact that most of the food stores in the area will lose almost all of their inventory due to power outages and just plain expiration of many items during the days and weeks to come, it would have been beneficial to the area to just say, "Come and take what you need...we will be trashing what you don't take." Looting just isn't right...but, I agree with you, bluestateguy, taking food and water should certainly be categorized differently than stealing say, a 42" flat panel television...

subjectProdigal

[jhawk_tim]

21. But it goes beyond "trashing what you don't take"

For the store owner to get reimbursed by the insurance company, he must present the items. So he is only going to trash it after he proves it's existence and usable loss to the insurance company. Just letting anyone have it will prevent him from recouping his loss.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. i understand the insurance policy structure that would prevent that

scenario that I mentioned above...it is just a shame that in a time where some people will truly be in need two things happen...

1) Some people take advantage and steal non-necessary items
2) Some people put the value of a dollar over the value of a life

Unfortunately, these two problems play against each other in a wicked and complex dance...

subjectProdigal

[CitrusLib]

49. Not necessarily.

Provided the store owner has 1) invoices to prove he purchased and accepted the items into his possession, 2) access to CNN to prove a hurricane swept through the city, I doubt a reputable insurance company would give him a great deal of grief when filing a claim.

I'm not a big fan of the beauracratic bullshit that can come from insurance companies, but I must say I heard overwhelmingly positive stories about them following Frances and Jeanne here last year. Their on-the-ground claims adjusters busted their asses for months following those disasters. Given the coverage of Katrina's devastation, I find it hard to believe a store owner in the direct path couldn't get compensation from his insurer.

As for looters, I'm torn. If my family was starving and thirsty, I would take supplies for them, but I sure as hell would also leave an IOU or some sort of message on how to reach me for repayment. Looting is still stealing any way you slice it.

[JI7]

5. people are trying to survive and considering all that is happening now

even if there were a few people stealing luxury items it would be far down on the list of what is important right now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. I completely agree with that assessment no matter how many hand wringers

have tried to accuse me otherwise. If people are taking vcrs and tv's and crap like that, that is a shame...the ONLY looting I personally saw was groceries...I call that survival.

[malaise]

15. As I posted elsewhere

It's perfectly normal after hurricanes. Does anyone believe that a hungry dog or cat will distinguish between its owners food and available food when its hungry.

It may shock those of us who have savings, insurance and decent jobs, but behavior changes during and after mass shock and suffering. For many people, it's survival by any means. What is disgraceful is shooting hungry wet people over goods that are covered by insurance and food that will spoil anyway.

Yes if it's your home being looted, that's different. I'll draw a distinction when people invade homes while residents are there, but if people empty supermarkets or warehouses etc., more power to them.

It hardly matters what we think, people will do anything to survive.

[johnnie]

39. The footage I saw

It looked like a lot of teens and younger people stealing cases of beer. It also appeared as if they were dancing around and having a good time.
I personally thought it looked more like a chance to get free stuff than an attempt at survival. I could be wrong.

[Carni]

106. And logically who the hell would want furniture and electronics there NOW

I have a really hard time believing people are looting large items for home use at this time. What are they going to do with them?
Strap them to their backs or use them as a boat?

My opinion on looters is that I am not in their situation thank God so I am certainly not going to cast stones!

If someone broke into my house and stold essentials under the circumstances there, I would not be angry--now if people broke into my already damaged house and just trashed it for no reason and took non-essential stuff I would be pissed... but I have a hard time believing that is going on to a great degree.

[Botany]

7. They are wrong ...... end of story.

No equivocation or rationalizing can change the fact that they
used a natural disaster as cover to go out and steal.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. ROFLMAO!

you were joking right? If not, then I just find absolutism entertaining.
yeah...that's right...lock the bastards up for going to find clean drinking water in 90 degree weather on a day when all the water in the city even in unaffected homes is contaminated and there are no roads out of the city...good idea.

[Botany]

19. No joking ......

From the pictures I saw (cable and network news) I just thought
lawless thugs. Granted I know that I did not get a complete picture
but what I saw was pretty damning.
A shopping cart full of tennis shoes
Junk Food
Furniture

I did not see anybody going out of a store w/ clean drinking water.


What they didn't know a storm was coming? They did not have a chance
to stock up on food and water? What are they beyond personal responsibility?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Stop...you're cracking me up!

Yes...everyone has loads of money sitting around to stock up on everything...in fact, they all ran home and posted their booty on EBAY...ooops no wait...they had no electricity...the water was 10 feet high in some places...so even if they opened their fridge the food would immediately be contaminated.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

55. i hear you laughing...all the way over here in ATL

good morning...i think you missed some sleep... :-)

subjectProdigal

[jhawk_tim]

28. I totally agree with Botany

They knew the storm was coming. They had ample time to evacuate or stock up. Stealing is stealing. I cannot find a way to condone it due to the circumstances. Had those people had no idea a disaster was looming, that would be difference. But who didn't know this storm was on it's way?

[MadHound]

67. Gee, let's say they did stock up, water, food, etc

And then a goddamn wave that overtops their house comes roaring through, blows out the windows and sweeps out everything, furniture, pictures, and oh yeah, all of those supplies they had stocked up on.

Now repeat that scenario a few thousand times.

And now everything you stocked up on is gone. What would you do?

Get a grip and a conscience friend, people are dying in NO, and if looting some food and water is the only way to get it, then so be it. What, you would rather cannabalism set in? Give me a break.

I think it is rather presumptous for people like yourself to judge others when you've never been in their shoes.

[sniffa]

85. a Lot a good that does for those on govt. assistance

next time they shouLd pLan their hurricanse for the first of the month.

[tjdee]

48. Junk food hasn't spoiled.

The meat, dairy, etc.....is probably getting rank.

[SmokingJacket]

72. Spend your life being poor, black and living in New Orleans...

Then, watch as all the people from the Garden district pack up their Saabs and head for the Ft. Worth Hilton while you are left to die.

Then watch your city fall under terrifying amounts of water. You have no freaking idea if you'll survive.

THEN judge people who rip off a cartload of junk food.

(And before you judge my moral integrity, I've never stolen a damn thing in my life. But I did spend some years working in a very poor part of rural Louisiana, and I saw poverty and desperation that shocked the hell out of me. I will never see the world the same way again.)

[fishwax]

82. Yeah, it's real easy to never judge when you've never been there

most of middle-class white america really has no conception of the disparity of wealth. it definitely is shocking.

[Carni]

110. Going through that particular adjustment right now

Seeing poverty not in NO but it may as well be because it's the same kind of situation. It changes your view on a lot of things.

[malta blue]

51. I stand with you NSMA

I saw people taking diapers and water. What is wrong with you people? Yesterday some DUers were sitting pretty at their computers saying "They knew it was coming, if they stayed it's their own fault" and today this. What a pile!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Mala Per Se and Mala Prohibitum

If you are stealing food to prevent yourself or your family from starving that can be morally but not legally justified-Mala Prohibitum-It's wrong because the law prohibits it...


Stealing a plasma tv because the cops are distracted is wrong in and of itself-Mala Per Se....


Why is this simple little exercise lost on some people...

[Misunderestimator]

50. So... the food is better spoiling than feeding someone.

How incredibly uncompassionate of you. I hope you never find yourself in a natural disaster making a choice between taking food that you cannot pay for because no one is there to take the money... or trusting that the disaster will go away quickly before you get hungry and the food is spoiled or gone.

What an idiotic choice that would be to make.

[northzax]

71. Stealing is illegal. under every circumstance

you can make the arguement, in certain circumstances, that the need outweighs the wrongness of the action, certainly, but all that means is that you are choosing the lesser of two evils.

The reason I, personally, find this instance of looting to be wrong is that in every case of a natural disaster in the United States in the last 50 years within 24 hours the Federal Government and the Red Cross are there with food and the beginnings of shelter. In fact, rescue crews are already at work in New Orleans, on boats if need be, and have been since 4-5 hours after the storm passed through. By 6 pm tuesday evening, the Red Cross will be set up to prepare 80,000 meals for dinner. 80,000. think about that. Never has a city been abandoned after a natural disaster, in recent memory, help has always been hours behind a tragedy. Unless you have certain medical conditions, going without food for 12 hours is not going to hurt you. It may be unpleasant, but everyone does it every now and then.

yes, callous and mean (what else did you expect from me?) but simple disaster does not true need make, when you know relief is on the way. then it's just stealing for the sake of stealing.

and yes, before you ask, I have gone to bed hungry because I had no money to buy food until payday. it's not pleasant, but I didn't go knock off a 7-11. Day three of four, I might have.

[Misunderestimator]

92. Day 3 or 4... the food will all be gone. Then what do you do?

[northzax]

94. so to prevent other people from stealing it first

you should engage in preemptive theft?

[Misunderestimator]

95. If I have no idea what's going to happen, and I am surrounded by water...

and I've been left with no other recourse and have no idea how long it may be before I eat? Yes.

[northzax]

97. April 29th 1992, all over again? (nt)

[Misunderestimator]

99. Gee... I had no idea there was a hurricane in LA then.

[northzax]

102. hurricane, race riots

both lead to the breakdown of civil order. Flooding or mass fires and streets filled with riots, both make it difficult to get to the Safeway and buy stuff. Why would looting be acceptable in NoLa now and not Watts in '92?

[Misunderestimator]

104. Oh yeah... hurricanes and race riots are the same thing.

Because they are fucking different is why they are different. :eyes:

To even bring Watts up tells me everything I need to know.

[northzax]

111. so innocent victims of a hurricane

that had two days notice to evacuate are entitled to steal food, but innocent victims of a riot, with no notice to evacuate, are not entitled? I fail to see the difference, if you are an innocent bystander in the riot, your house is still being destroyed, you still can't get anywhere safely, why is there a difference, for the innocent victims?

simply because there is?

[I concur]

108. You're absolutely right...

...theft is theft! And looters are not only are stealing but they also impede emergency services to those in dire straits and needy. They tie up police and guardsmen from doing other necessary jobs, they trash stores while stealing, they sell stolen goods and create a black market, their perishable ill-gotten goods are often known to be contaminated but are sold anyway.

[Solly Mack]

9. My opinion from my safe, comfortable home across the pond

I'm not wet.

I'm not cold.

I'm not hungry.

I'm not facing more hardship.

I'm not desperate.

I'm not judging. <~~ my opinion

[wli]

11. they're using "looting" as an excuse to gun down poor people n/t

[RebelOne]

13. The ones who steal luxury items like TVs, etc., are low life scum.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. All I have seen are AP pictures of people carrying bags of groceries

from a convenience store. Wouldn't it all perish anyway?

[rasputin1952]

14. Food is necessary for survival....while I cannot condone stealing for

stealing's 'sake', food is in a different category. If one can afford to buy what is needed, so be it; if one has lost almost everything in the catastrophe, the taking of necessary items is justified in my eyes. However, every attempt should be made to get 'permission' or a deal made with the store to reimburse them later for items used if possible. Most people are pretty compassionate in situations like this, and no one, especially a child, should have to suffer hunger.

[Daphne08]

16. So, is this what the Democratic Party stands for now?

Looting?

I cannot believe I'm seeing people defending thieves.

Stealing a loaf of bread if you are starving is one thing. Stealing because it's convenient to do so is quite another.

I've seen people on this board justify theft because of gas prices, etc. Well, that doesn't make it right!

Theft is theft. Just because the powerful do it doesn't mean we should.

Frankly, I'm disgusted by the attitude that these looters were justified!

Again, I ask. Is this what the Democratic stands for?

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. If my son is hungry, and there is a loaf of bread...and I have just

lost everything I owned...guess what? My son's eating a slice of bread.

[Daphne08]

20. Did you even read what I just wrote?

[ScreamingMeemie]

24. Yes I did. Especially the bold part. I am re-emphasizing what I have

seen...which isn't the looting of large screen t.v.'s, but the looting of food. You have seen otherwise? News to me in a city covered in water.

[Daphne08]

35. I wasn't there.

The subject is about looting in general.

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. I have seen people here defending the theft of food. I have seen AP

pictures of "looting" bags of groceries from a convenience store. I have yet to see people hauling televisions out of the local Best Buy. What cracks me up is that most people appear (I use "appear" since I'm not there either) to be more interested in survival, than in the theft of anything but food.

[Misunderestimator]

54. Who here has defended looting "in general" ?

I have only seen people defending those who take food and water. I would not THINK TWICE to take food and water in a situation like that... not knowing where my next meal may be.

[mondo joe]

62. There was one yesterday who defended stealing a plasma TV, for

example, because in the days following Katrina it could be sold to pay for rent or a security deposit.

[Misunderestimator]

63. Ok, but I doubt that that kind of opinion is standard here.

How many people agreed with that person? And what was the context?

[mondo joe]

65. Sure it's not the standard - though I'm not sure what I can say what the

standard IS.

There were a number of people - myself included - saying "if every alternative is exhausted and you need food to survive, theft is okay". We were told more than once we were essentially pawns of the Ruling Class.

:-(

Now I don't think THAT is the standard either. But it gets disheartening.

[sniffa]

23. not onLy that

we aLso stand for weLfare queens, and screwing over hard working white men. oh, and christians too - gotta oppress them.

:popcorn:

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. ...and don't forget inducting our youth into secret "clubs"

:hi:

[sniffa]

29. secret gay orientation cLubs

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. sshhhhhh! Now you let it out!!!

;)

[calico1]

30. My feelings exactly.

Not only that but it seems people are justifying stealing from privatel owned businesses because the Government is not doing its job. So the business suffers losses, not only from damage it may have suffered but from the looting. Later on down the line it will probably mean price increases and everyone else pays for the looting.

[Don Claybrook]

33. What would you have it stand for?

Does it stand for hateful motherfuckers who are indistinguishable from right wing, selfish fuckheads, only concerned about the laws being broken on the fringes of the largest natural disaster this country has seen? Do you think maybe we should launch vigilante boats in the New Orleans area so that we can "shoot on sight" when we see brown people committing crimes? Has anyone bothered telling you that they don't give a flying fuck how disgusted you are with attitudes, because if they haven't, I'm here to tell you now that I'm sick and tired of hearing this sort of hateful, racist, vomitous speech from people who are supposed to nominally be considered progressive.

It's very instructive to see which parts of the news cycle capture your attention. I can see that human suffering isn't nearly as exciting as talking about the lawbreakers.

If this is what's meant by being a Democrat, count me out.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Pompous, anal slugs in sheeps' clothing.

The use of the words "we" and "us" can really really seem alarming at times.

I've got a little monument to put up here, for their glorification, since they're here to flaunt their claim to greater goodness:



I came from a family with two generations of ministers, and I've NEVER heard such snotty, self-important claims of spiritual superiority in my life, and I've seen some real winners.

Real piety doesn't spend much time in posturing and passing out judgements against people in crisis.

I appreciated your post.

[Botany]

34. Bingo!

<Stealing a loaf of bread if you are starving is one thing. Stealing because it's convenient to do so is quite another.>

What I saw was people using a natural disaster as cover to steal.

I agree with about 85% of DU but condoning looting really makes us
look like fringe nut balls.

Start a business ..... hire people ..... pay your bills ..... pay taxes .....
but if something happens people can steal your stock ..... PLEASE

So people were starving after less then 10 hours after the storm hit?

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. No, people are being told that the situation is going to be dire for

at least the next week....with no home, no means of transportation. What would you have them do. Eat leaves?

[Botany]

42. I am liberal .... I love America ...... but I am not dumb

the stealing I saw was indefensible

A shopping cart filled with tennis shoes?
Personal electronics?
Cosmetics?

A 10 LBS bag of rice and 10 LBS bag of beans could have been bought
before the storm .... Families could have pooled money ..... filled their
tub w/ H20 ..... filled plastic jugs w/ water

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. The stealing of bags of groceries is what the AP is passing around.

It is not for us to judge. In my opinion, that's a Republican value...to judge a situation we know nothing about, to question the actions of another in a time of great stress. I refuse to do it. THAT's what sickens me.

[rasputin1952]

88. Stealing gas is not condoned....and if you read my post just above yours,

I think that arrangements should be made to reimburse the stores for food/water when possible. I do not condone stealing, but I do condone survival, especially under these types of circumstances.....O8)

[Carni]

114. Funny you should mention gas prices...

Gas goes up 20 cents a gallon this morning at the pumps based on gas the thieves at the station bought at the old prices pre-hurricane and I am supposed to rag on a bunch of people that have just gone through a hurricane, about pilfering food?

Yeah right--I'll get right on that.

Maybe you should take this time to direct your indignation about stealing at bush and the oil companies.

[bribri16]

18. I agree. The chain stores should open up and let people who can

get to the stores take what they can carry to feed their families.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Most Of The Food In SuperMarkets Is Unusable At This Point...

Well-anything that requires refrigeration...

[sniffa]

38. i think they're sexy

Looting is the next big thing, this faLL season.

Looters: a new reaLity show on fox. winona rider is earmarked to cohost.

[sweetheart]

40. They should hang the lot of them

Especially the looters who have a majority in the congress and the
white house.

[Ganja Ninja]

45. While technically it's stealing in reality ...

a lot of the merchandise would be thrown out anyway. Food is perishable and would not be salable and the consumer goods would most likely not be sold but claimed as a loss on the merchants insurance. So I have no big problem with people who have suffered a terrible loss grabbing whatever they need to live on and if they pick up a few luxuries along the way it's small potato's.

[quisp]

46. Great hot wings and who doesn't the orange hot pants!?! n/t

[demnan]

47. There are always going to be people

who will steal just for stealing's sake. There also will be people who steal to survive. You can't generalize this issue. Each case should be considered separately.

[Misunderestimator]

58. And that's a good point. Too much generalizing going on here.

[Taxloss]

52. Food-wise, that food would very probably be unfit for sale once

this mess is tidied up, so while it is theft in a technical sense, it woul not result in loss to the store, so it's a victimless crime and prosecution should not be even considered by a humane society. Especially in survival circumstances. And I think you would have to be VERY inhumane to begrudge bottled water taken from flooded shops. Yes, it's theft, yes, it's illegal, but get a grip. I only hope they don't fall ill after taking contaminated goods.

This argument does not apply to electronic goods. But that doesn't mean people stealing a TV should be shot! Just prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The above arguments apply to stealing from shops. Stealing from the homes of others in indefensible.

[johnnie]

53. My opinion

I can definitely understand trying to find food and water after living through such devastation as the people in the gulf has gone through.
I personally believe that the looters should be caught and prosecuted. It seems that the majority of people here at DU are backing the looters and using the excuse that the food will be thrown out and these people are taking food for their little children. I call bullshit...
Sure there are reports of the stores owned by "the man" being looted and a lot of you say that they should just give the stuff away anyway. The problem there is that this looting was happening in the middle of the hurricane. As people were dying and needing to be rescued, these looters that you are so worried about were not giving a shit about their fellow citizens, they were too busy stealing things from anywhere they could because they are being selfish.
Look at this photo:


I don't think I buy that many groceries in a year. That sure is a lot of bottled water they seem to be carrying. :eyes:

Now here is something else to think about concerning the looters. How about the reports of homes being broken into and looted? Is that okay as long as the looters are taking the homeowner's water and diapers? Or is it cool for them to be breaking in and taking the homeowner's food because "it will spoil anyway"? How would YOU like to come back in these circumstances and find your house ransacked? I know, I know.. many of you would think it is alright because your food would have rotted anyway, and since the cable stations are down for a while, you wouldn't need your television for a while.

I see no difference in the looters robbing private homes and robbing stores. The looters were taking something that doesn't belong to them because they could get away with it, plain and simple.

[Misunderestimator]

57. A FEW people looted things like that... THEY were the ones you see

on camera over and over, even though there are others they showed taking food and water. But no... that isn't shocking enough, so let's show the same footage over an over of a FEW people taking shopping carts of non-perishable goods out the back of a store. Yes, they are stealing. But YOU are the one buying the media's representation painting everyone who is looting the same way. Looting food is simply NOT the same thing.

IF THIS was such a problem... why do I keep seeing the same footage over and over and over? Why don't they have clips of people all over the place taking appliances? Because it is NOT a major problem.

And by the way... if someone needed my food in a situation like this, I would want them to break in my house and take it.

[johnnie]

59. I am not buying anything

I have only seen the footage once on the internet, but I have read some other stories. What makes you think I am buying into anything? I think too many people here are buying into the hype that the government will do nothing to help the people down in the gulf because the government is "bad". There are too many chicken littles here at DU.
Here is one for example:

"Katrina evacuees get news that looters struck their home"
ABC13 Eyewitness News
(8/29/05 - HOUSTON) — Some of the evacuees from Hurricane Katrina will call Houston hotels home for the next few nights.

Many people say they drove over 15 hours to get to a safe area. The parking lot at the Holiday Inn on Bell Street was completely full.

There are some problems are already being reported from back home. Some evacuees received disturbing phone calls from the security alarm companies saying that people were looting their homes.

Unfortunately, when residents are evacuated, there was nothing they could do. The police won't go out there to their homes to check out situation because of the storm. Nobody knows how bad the damage from the looters may be.

Those displaced residents say they came out to the Houston area to escape Katrina and the last thing they expected was to get damage from criminals.

"This is ridiculous. You work hard. You're trying to get out of there to save your family and you have people running around taking your stuff," said evacuee Pamela David. "It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. But we have our family here and that stuff can be replaced. That's why you have insurance. I got to let it go.".

"It's horrible. It's just horrible that somebody would actually break into your house when you are trying to get your family to safety," said evacuee Lisa Allen.

The families say they were distraught over the news, but were very grateful to be safe and with their families.
(Copyright © 2005, KTRK-TV)



http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/082905_local_looters.html




So I take it that you see nothing wrong with the people taking things from the people who fled? How about the lady in the picture and her daughter? They get to go back home and rebuild their lives because some people decided they needed the stuff more than this woman did? And I'm sure this is not an isolated case. I would be willing to bet that the people who are breaking into the private homes are not just taking "what they need", but are taking what they can carry.

[Misunderestimator]

61. You are right. There are criminals in the world who steal.

It's unfortunate but true. Those people don't become non-criminals during a crisis I guess. You are taking the position to highlight the criminals. I am taking the position to defend the innocent victims.

There are BOTH in this, johnnie. And the media is highlighting what appeals to our lust for seeing the worst instead of the best.

[johnnie]

68. No

I think the homeowners and shop owners are innocent victims.
I am sure that there are some people who are taking things they need. The city of New Orleans provided shelter, food and medical supplies to thousands of people. There are many people risking their lives trying to save as many people as they can get to. They are setting up shelters and thousands of people across the United States are gearing up to head out there to help the people who's lives have been shattered.
I haven't paid much attention to the MSM really. I have no cable, but I did watch local news. The news stations here in Cleveland didn't say much, if anything on the looting. Most of what I have read about the looters has been on DU.
I understand why people are supporting some of the people who are trying to get supplies to help them survive, but I honestly believe that most of the looters are there to take what they can get. They didn't even wait to give the system a chance, they went into businesses and private homes in the middle of the storms to steal.

[TahitiNut]

69. Wake me up when they've stolen 1/100th of what Halliburton stole.

:boring: Or Enron. :boring: Or Bechtel. :boring: Or any of the BushCo cronies. :boring:

[johnnie]

74. Wake up...

The homes that have been broken into are in the lower class sections of town. The people who live in those houses are poor and work hard to get what they got. They packed their families into their cars and drove to safety in case the hurricane tore their houses up. Instead of damage and loss by a hurricane, they will be coming home to their house being ransacked by their neighbors. Most of these people probably have no insurance. Chances are these people have little children that they will like to feed when they get home. The property that they worked hard for is probably gone. They won't have a job to go to because chances are most places won't be in operation for a while. To these lower income families, what has been taken from them is worth more than 1/100th of what the companies you mention have stolen.

[TahitiNut]

77. Got a link?

:eyes: Somehow, that doesn't seem to match the photo. :shrug:

[johnnie]

78. Sure

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/082905_local_looters.html

:eyes:
I'll find more if you need them.

[TahitiNut]

79. Fascinating. No power or phones, yet these evacuees ...

... received reports from their security alarm company? I'll take that "report" with a whole bag of salt.

"Some evacuees received disturbing phone calls from the security alarm companies saying that people were looting their homes."

That's one helluva (unnamed) security alarm company. Not only are they able to contact the evacuee, they've got power and employees on site who didn't evacuate? And at a time when the police themselves can't reach their neighborhood? Wow! Color me impressed. (Not.)

[johnnie]

80. Lol

:tinfoilhat:

Funny, do you think that WDSU were broadcasting all day with squirrels and wheels?

[TahitiNut]

86. You sure skip from topic to topic.

Is WDSU the "security company"? Is it the building in the photo you posted? Each time I respond to a specific, you change the "story." What's so hard to comprehend about power and phone outages in residential areas? Does a hospital's power generation contradict a residential outage? Does a radio/TV station's Civil Defense preparedness negate an outage in some adjacent residential neighborhood?

Ridiculous. You might as well be raging against littering in Falluja. :eyes:

[johnnie]

87. I wasn't skipping from topic to topic

I was answering your posts.
I'll stop that now, and you can go back to sleep.

[mondo joe]

98. Are you saying the women who claims her house was broken into is

lying? Or is a fabrication?

[TahitiNut]

101. Did I stutter?

Hook. Line. Sinker.

Swallow.

Repeat.

:eyes: Shall we talk about the babies ripped from incubators being stolen from Kuwait by Iraqi soldiers?

[mondo joe]

105. Sorry - I'm not clear on whether you think she's lying or she's a

complete fabrication by the MSM or the government.

[mondo joe]

75. I'm sure if you were a low income person whose house was looted, or

owned a struggling small business that was looted, it would be a great comfort to you that it wasn't as bad as Halliburton.

[all.of.me]

60. if i were in the shoes of the people in n.o.,

i would be stealing food. i am probably poor, black (from the photos i saw), and have now lost everything. there is probably not going to be any food coming into the city anytime soon. what is there is going to rot anyway, so what the hell? it is a matter of survival at this point.

looting luxury items - well, i think that is human nature. it's going to happpen. i doubt i would be tempted, but then again, if i didn't do it, someone else would.

it's a what-if type of question. hard to know what i'd do in that situation.

[Maru Kitteh]

64. I think there are too many trapped and dying and needy people right now

to worry about them. If some looters are running off with jewelry and valuables they deserve serious punishment but right now I think the priority MUST be rescue, food and water, sanitation.

I think diverting resources to protect property when lives are in peril is more criminal than whatever pilfering may be going on.

I have nothing but contempt for looters who are stealing for gain right now, and nothing but compassion for those who are merely taking what they need to survive.

[William Bloode]

66. I have never saw anything morally wrong with people..

stealing to feed their bellies. If you are hungry and it is the only way, take it and don't be ashamed.

[ultraist]

70. Looters like Bush and his cronies should face life in prison.

And for those that engage in petty theft looting during a natural disaster, should be granted the consideration of extenuating circumstances.

[bluestateguy]

83. Not every issue in the world is reducable to Bush

Looting for personal gain (and my original post makes a distinction between survivalism and looting) is despicable no matter who is president.

This is what got liberals and the Democratic Party in so much trouble in the 1960's, 70's and 80's: excuses and over-intellectualizing about crime.

[lebkuchen]

73. Let's turn our focus to the Bushies looting Americans w/high oil prices

such as the higher ones coming down the pike~!

[bluestateguy]

76. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time

The many outrages of the Bush Administration should never stifle discussion of other outrages committed by others.

[lebkuchen]

117. No, I don't think so.

[distantearlywarning]

81. I am suprised by some of the answers here.

Stealing is wrong, no matter how you spin it.

Stealing food and water during a crisis can and should be overlooked, especially in a situation where the food will spoil anyway, but stealing electronic equipment, jewelry, etc. is unacceptable and should be punished as severely as the law will allow.

I have been very poor at times in my life, poor enough that I would have had serious trouble evacuating if I were told to do so, and I can assure you that although I might have taken food and water if I needed it, I would NEVER have taken a television or broken into a jewelry or liquor store, no matter what my personal situation was.

There is NEVER any excuse for that kind of behavior, and it hurts all of us when it happens. Homeowners and small business owners who don't feel that their property will be safe from looters won't evacuate during the next emergency, which will result in more fatalities, a higher burden on emergency services, etc. Sorry to those of you are cheering on people in poor neighborhoods "screwing the man", but the goodness of some poor person getting a new plasma TV in no way makes up for the negative overall social consequences of uncontrolled looting.

To be honest, I'm a little surprised and ashamed of DU this morning. I expected better thinking from many of you. And this is the kind of thing that makes it easy for the right to paint us as nutjobs.

[ret5hd]

84. Paging Inspector Javert!!!... Paging Inspector Javert!!!...

There are reports of a certain "Jean Valjean" and associated types running loose in New Orleans! Please report IMMEDIATELY!!!

[burythehatchet]

89. they are the scourge of humankind and should be executed in the public sq.

Them and every politician who has stolen from the people.

[NoSheep]

90. I agree with you. Take for survival. Not for private gain.

[jzodda]

91. Survival? Well of course they should! but....

I seriously doubt they are looting there for survival and thats what pains me :(

In the reports I saw the stores were trashed and the ATM's broken into, lots of booze stolen and in many cases food left untouched. So I think its more of a standard case of criminal looting right now :(

[jaysunb]

93. Anybody seen Ken Lay lately ?

now there's a REAL looter.

[Misunderestimator]

96. Ain't THAT the truth!

[manic expression]

100. Mine:

If someone leads a life of poverty, and then is left by their government and the richer to a terrible proposition of facing a hurricane with no support; I have NO problem with them taking products of both survival and luxury from those who didn't lend them a hand, before or during the storm; not to mention being part of the entity which has kept those people deprived and desperate for so long.

[rman]

103. agreed: surviving a disaster vs. exploiting a disaster

Also i am certain that it would have been possible to prevent much of the effects of this disaster, if it weren't for a general reluctance by the government to spend money on the common good.

Many more people could have been evacuated, and emergency rations could have been in place.

[mindfulNJ]

107. I agree with you.

n/t

[Cleita]

109. Well, I don't consider desperate people trying to survive looters.

Ever read Stephen King's "The Stand"? It was about a nationwide epidemic where most of the population died and those who survived had to take what was available to survive even moving into people's houses who had died and using their stuff, which became their stuff. Money wasn't even used anymore because it wasn't needed. People just took what they needed. In dire times the rules change. It doesn't make the survivors criminals.

[MsTryska]

112. the way i look at it....

much of what's being "looted" are perishable goods anyway - so consider them lost. at least this way soemone gets use from it.


as for TVs and such - that would be wrong.

[porphyrian]

113. What loot?

This makes me think of McDonalds. Every 20 minutes or so, McDonalds takes whatever food that's been sitting under heat lamps unsold and throws it out. It is bagged and put in the dumpster. However, if, say, an employee is caught salvaging any of that food (as much as it is), they are fired. Why? Because the company doesn't look at the incident as someone putting the restaraunt's garbage to good use, they see it as the cost of that item denied them should the employee have bought it fresh. They consider it theft of a potential profit, even though the person involved may have never bought the item if it hadn't been available for free. In the disaster areas these "looters" are at, all of this product is going to be declared to insurance companies as loss and it will be replaced or compensated for. In my book, that makes it garbage, not loot.

Profit before people is sociopathic and irresponsible, and it will continue to be a problem until either corporate "personhood" is eliminated or corporations are forced to have the same responsibility and accountability as individual citizens as well as our rights.

[mongo]

115. Instead of looting why aren't these people seeking relief?

They should be trying to hook up with the red cross or the national gaurd to get out and get help.

I suspect a majority of them are looting food and supplies from the store, so that they can then go home and protect their own stuff from looters.

[Ronnie]

116. My first thought?

I'm glad they're alive.