Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Police Chief Says "Lockerbie Evidence Was Faked"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:31 AM
Original message
Police Chief Says "Lockerbie Evidence Was Faked"
Police chief- Lockerbie evidence was faked

MARCELLO MEGA



A FORMER Scottish police chief has given lawyers a signed statement claiming that key evidence in the Lockerbie bombing trial was fabricated.

The retired officer - of assistant chief constable rank or higher - has testified that the CIA planted the tiny fragment of circuit board crucial in convicting a Libyan for the 1989 mass murder of 270 people.

The police chief, whose identity has not yet been revealed, gave the statement to lawyers representing Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, currently serving a life sentence in Greenock Prison.

The evidence will form a crucial part of Megrahi's attempt to have a retrial ordered by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC). The claims pose a potentially devastating threat to the reputation of the entire Scottish legal system.

The officer, who was a member of the Association of Chief Police Officers Scotland, is supporting earlier claims by a former CIA agent that his bosses "wrote the script" to incriminate Libya.

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1855852005
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Un fricken believable,
Wasn't Lockerbie the one where they got rid of the plane pieces quite quickly after they reached a conclusion?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Nah, that was 9/11.
Oh wait, on 9/11 they got rid of the plane parts and all other wreckage before they reached their "conclusion"...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. The US can't do anything straight up........
it appears everything has to be fabricated to produce the 'desired' end result; a result that has nothing to do with truth or reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. Most Interesting, Sir
The Libyan connection to this incident has never seemed very credible to me; Iran seemed to me a much more likely prime mover in the thing....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Was it retaliation for Vincennes shooting down Iranian Airliner?
The key word to watch for in the testimony is "Vincennes". In July 1988 the US Navy battle cruiser Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing all 290 people on board. It was, of course, claimed by the US Navy that this was "an accident". Sure. Just one of those little mistakes that happen from time to time. And pigs can fly.

In December 1988 a bomb exploded aboard Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing all 270 people on board, including 189 Americans. It is widely believed that the attack was carried out in retaliation for the destruction of the Iranian airliner, specifically, that Iran (and possibly other Middle Eastern states) paid a Palestinian group (the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command) to do the deed.

<>

This is likely, although not proven. What will be interesting is to see if this explanation is allowed any time in court. Obviously the U.S. doesn't want people to consider the possibility that the Pan Am attack was simply (and understandably) an act of revenge for the wanton murder of 290 people aboard the Iranian airliner (some of whom were on pilgrimage to Mecca).

Why did the U.S. accuse Libya of being behind the bombing when the involvement of Iran (and perhaps Syria) was obviously more likely? Because in 1991 the U.S. needed to have Iran and Syria lined up in the "coalition" directed against Saddam Hussein's Iraq. To accuse them of involvement in the Pan Am bombing would have been politically inexpedient. And, of course, to accuse Iran would be to remind the world of the murder of the 290 people on board the Iranian plane.

Was the Captain of the Vincennes court-martialled for this murder? After an official enquiry he was awarded (by George H. Bush in 1990) the Legion of Merit award for "exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of an outstanding service". When mass murder is described by a U.S. President as "an outstanding service" one has to wonder what other insanities may be present in the mind of whoever is currently the leader of the militarily most powerful nation on Earth.

Much More At:
http://www.serendipity.li/more/lockerb.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. That Was Always My View, Sir
That incident was a ghastly cock-up, for which a court-martial ought to have been convened, and the Captain cashiered for incompetence. But those who suffer such a loss cannot be expected to be much concerned with whether it was done on purpose or through sheer idiocy, and the attitude of the U.S. government at the time seemed to me one of barely restrained glee over the occurance, in any case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. And now the political winds have shifted
Deeply disturbing how we pawns are constantly being sacrificed for the Giants Without Hearts.

At the time my antenna were raised especially considering the response of "barely restrained glee over the occurrence".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Does this put Iran back in the running as "most likely to have sponsored"?
That's what some thought until the Libya proof(?).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. more U.S. foreign policy of lies....
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. More information
DEA Agents caught wind of CIA Agents giving arms to terrorists.

And as they came back aboard this plane. Very convenient for the CIA, the terrorists, and the Far Right.

Several people decided not to get on the plane.

"Another lucky guy was mr. Steve Green, Assistant, Office Intelligence DEA. Mr Steve Green has been seen, on the tarmac, watching the take-off of the doomed plane Pan-Am 103 at London Airport Heathrow. Together with him, Oliver Revell junior, survived Pan Am 103 by a lucky strike of incredible coincidences. Oliver Revell junior is the son of Mr. Oliver Buck Revell, member of the FBI ...and one of the American head investigators in the Lockerbie case!"

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:xdlbtR3PmvwJ:www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5260/victim.html+%22Pan+Am+Flight+103+%22+Chris+Revell&hl=en
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. it goes on and on, how long can we stand it? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bribri16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. I read this and was sickened. Heard many rumors about this during
the time of the incident that Lybia actually had nothing to do with Lockerbie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. Wow
More and more just keeps coming out about this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. It certainly seemed a bit too tidy at the time...
Sometimes I despair of ever getting a straight story out of any government...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. And rember it was the CIA in the case of TWA800
that dreamed up "zoom climb" scenario and then produced a video to show how TWA800, with the forward one third of the fuselage blown clean off, climbed 3000ft trailing burning fuel which in turn "fooled" the observers on the ground into thinking they were witnessing a missile ascending into the sky from sea level, intercepting the 747 and the aircraft then exploding. Since when is it the CIA's role to participate in such a way in civilian aircrash investigations anyway?

Ray Lahr is a Graduate engineer from USC, a WWII era Navy pilot and former Air Lines Pilots Association Safety Representative as well as former United Airlines pilot. Following snips are from a letter to the Retired United Pilots Association by Ray Lahr

Months later, the FBI did release some of the witness reports, but the identities had been redacted which prevented verification. Fortunately, many of the witnesses had already spoken to the press so their stories and identities were known. Somehow, these witnesses had to be discredited. During the 17 months leading up to the first public hearing, the CIA was called in. It was the CIA that dreamed up the zoom-climb. This is quoted from the CIA briefing of the NTSB on April 30, 1999:

CIA ANALYST #1: The conclusion that the eyewitnesses were only seeing the burning aircraft was made at 10:00 p.m. at night on the 30th of December 1996.

Mr. Walters (ALPA representative): Was it really?

CIA ANALYST #1: Yes, as I was sitting behind the computer. It's -- up until then, what we're doing is trying to interpret these reports the way you are now. If it's a streak, where is the streak originating from? What external source could there be for the streak? There was a realization, having all the data laid out, that you can explain what the eyewitnesses are seeing with only the burning aircraft.


The subsequent CIA zoom-climb video animation was prepared in coordination with the FBI using data and conclusions provided by the NTSB. It portrayed the nose and cockpit being blown off of TWA800 by a fuel explosion of unknown origin. The CIA claimed that not a single eyewitness saw this initial explosion because the sound had not yet reached them (a ridiculous claim since several airborne eyewitnesses saw the initial explosion where sound was not a factor). Then, even though the sound still had not reached the ground witnesses, the CIA claimed that they looked up and saw TWA800 trailing flames in a zoom-climb from 13,800 feet to 17,000 feet. At the peak of the zoom-climb, there was a hypothetical second fuel explosion. Supposedly, this zoom-climb and second explosion is what the witnesses mistook as a missile, even though the witnesses saw the missile rising from the surface, not a point two and a half miles in the sky. One month before the first public hearing, James Kallstrom showed this CIA video on national TV, and he announced that the FBI was withdrawing from the investigation because it could find no evidence of criminality. The aviation community laughed. Still, the NTSB stuck with the story and hastily prepared its own modified versions of the CIA video which it showed at the first public hearing on December 8-12, 1997. Would you believe that not a single eyewitness was allowed to testify at either of the two NTSB public hearings, even after a group of these eyewitnesses took out a full page ad in the Washington Times asking to be heard? Unprecedented.

I don't believe the zoom-climb ever happened. Boeing provided before-and-after data to the NTSB, and it was published in the accident report. Eighty thousand pounds of nose and cockpit were blown off. This shifted the center-of-gravity far aft and generated about 6,000,000 ft-lbs of nose-up torque. The aircraft immediately pitched up and stalled. The wing probably failed right then since its center box structure had been blown apart. But using Boeing's data, I calculated that even if the wing had held together, the most it could have climbed is a few hundred feet, not the 3,200 feet claimed by the CIA. That is why I want the data and calculations that were used to produce the CIA and NTSB videos. It is against all of the principles of accident investigation to base a conclusion, such as the zoom-climb, on secret evidence, data, and calculations.

Dick Russell and I went to the second NTSB hearing. No questions were allowed from the floor. During the coffee break, we tried to question Dennis Crider, NTSB author of the zoom-climb. Dr. Bernard Loeb, NTSB Director, intervened and cut off any answers. So I wrote to Jim Hall, Chairman of the NTSB. We exchanged several letters, but still no answers. This led to my filing Freedom of Information Act requests with the CIA and NTSB. The CIA responded that it had used data and conclusions provided by the NTSB. The NTSB responded that it couldn't release the information because it was proprietary to Boeing. But Boeing had previously issued a press release saying in part, "While we provided basic aerodynamic information to assist in the CIA's analysis of the airplanes performance, we are not aware of the data that was used to develop the video". My appeal of the NTSB decision was refused, so my only recourse was a lawsuit.

http://raylahr.entryhost.com/ABOUTUS/update.htm


Links to the CIA video (Apple Quick Time format)

#1
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9711/18/twa.presser.update/pt1.35.mov

#2
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9711/18/twa.presser.update/pt2.14.mov

#3
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9711/18/twa.presser.update/pt3.31.mov

More info at: http://raylahr.entryhost.com/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. "No questions were allowed from the floor" n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Of course not.
Are you one of those liberal anti-Americans who thinks the government has an obligation to listen to citizens and to explain their actions to the Joe and Jane Blow tax paying voters? Just remember the government is always looking out for your best interest. That's all you need to know. Once you keep that in mind, questions become just more unnecessary distractions preventing the government from getting on with the job of looking after you and keeping you safe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Shut up and go shopping
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 12:34 PM by beetbox
Of course that is want they want. From the likes of you and I they shall get neither.


American violence seems atavistic in nature; i.e., inherited and transmitted from one generation to the next. This could explain why the system always defends the status quo. Nevertheless, throughout modern American history, the voices that opposed US imperialism and its violence have always remained an ostracized intellectual faction without significant mass movement that could stop or reverse US insanity in the world. In the case of Iraq, although the American people now know that US aggression is a product of deception, although many know about the tens-of-thousands of civilians that the US forces slaughtered in that hapless nation, the voices that rise up to stop that insanity are confined to progressive media and scattered fringes of the American society. Where are the American people and where are those mythical "values" that Bush fulminates about ad nauseam

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/082605Petersen-...

Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others.

-- Emma Goldman

 
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC