Levee construction... Isn't there something better than sand bags?

[WiseButAngrySara]

This might be a dumb question, but I wondered about it since early this am when it was announced suddenly on MSNBC that the VP of Tulane Hospital was thinking about evacuating the patients because of a leak 2 blocks in length on the 17th street(?) canal. (I worked at Tulane Hosp and Charity in 1994, and I love the city!)

The question: What are the levee's lined with? If sand bags can even be considered to stop/repair the breach, can't a polyethylene/plastic/super glue type substance (which is water impermeable anyway) be sprayed or painted? Reminds me of the Dutch Boy story with his finger in the dike...Surely, SOMETHING better than sandbags is available in this synthetic world of ours?

[LiberalEsto]

1. Bags of oil co. executives?

or bags of freepers?

[WiseButAngrySara]

8. That would definitely be my first choice, were it only possible!!...n/t

[doublethink]

2. I actually heard ... an interview earlier with a worker .......

saying if they had to drop abandoned CARS onto the levey, or whatever ......... that is what they would use to attempt to plug it. Whatever it takes. Peace.

[ladjf]

14. I suggest the barge in a pile driver, drive post twenty feet apart,

mount gates between the post then shut the gates one by one as the are reinforced on the low pressure side. Further sealing could be worked from there. This is the same principle as the oil well cappers use. There is plenty of equipment and expertise in the NO area to handle this.I don't know that they aren't doing this now.

[WiseButAngrySara]

18. This sounds ingenious, and I imagine that you're correct about lots of

people in the area who are used to working on this (all of the off shore oil well rigs for one, and all of the port work)...any way to find out what's being done? I've asked several people who've responded to this post about general constrution of levees...What are they made of? lined with? wood, cement, dirt, etc. Do you know?

[ladjf]

20. The levees are made out of dirt mostly.

I just read that the chief of army engineers is working on a plan to plug the breach in the levee. "working on a plan"? Please, New Orleans has been there 300 years. A break in any of the main levees
was capable of wiping out the city and now, they are "working on a plan". Why in the hell didn't they already have a plan, complete with work barges, equipment and everything on hand. The National Guard has a main presence at Lakefront airport, about six miles away. The equipment includes several large helicopters. Work barges could have been stationed on Pontchartrain, a short distance from the breaks. Why didn't the canals have emergency gates at the mouth to the Lake? This is unbelievable.

[WiseButAngrySara]

21. I agree with you . It is and sounds unbelievable! Almost makes me

believe in LIHOP(?). I just heard on Anderson Cooper that the levees are 'earthen' (moats, dkes, canals)...so they're just packed dirt conduits is what it sounds like.

"Working on a plan"....unfrigging believable!

Thanks so much for your info. It seems as if you should be there working on this.

[tridim]

3. A cubic foot of water weighs about 62 pounds.

Keeping that water within a levee is like trying to stop an earthquake. It's the nature of nature.

[bj2110]

4. Has to be something that can be air-lifted into place. Not many

materials fit that description, when you consider the material must mold the opening and become watertight....

[ladjf]

15. Helicopter prefab gates. Drop then in the break and close them

one by one, bracing from the low pressure side.

[Spinzonner]

5. On the news the other day

I think it was Nightline. they mentioned there had been a prposal some years ago to build a wall around New Orleans - mainly concrete I assume - to protect it from storm surges. I assume that would also be a replacement for the levee.

Since the perfect storm was off in some indeterminate future and it would have costs lots of $$$'s, it was never followed through on. I think this was long enough ago that it's not a Bush issue.

It's always easy to spend tons for remediation but skimp on prevention.

[WeRQ4U]

7. They actually did something similar where I went to college.

Following a devestating flood, they built a brick and concrete wall between the city and the river. The roads in and out of the city can be shut off by sliding another piece of the wall into place with a crane.

Fool me once was their motto.

[LSdemocrat]

19. I believe that CNN said the cost would be in the billions

[kbm8795]

6. Yeah...freepers.

With their big mouths and inflatable egos, they most certainly should be able to absorb a lot of water and expand enough to plug up the levee.

[WiseButAngrySara]

10. Ha-Ha!!! I neede a laugh! Did you see #1? Shares your views.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[jmowreader]

9. No, sandbags are the best thing

When you're trying to build a hasty levee, you want heavy things that are easily malleable and that cost very little. A sandbag weighs as much as you want it to--they are throwing around some that weigh a ton and a half--you can bend it to your will, and it costs next to nothing.

The sandbags really don't need to be lined with anything; after you put enough sand down and it gets waterlogged, it's great for holding water back.

[LiberalEsto]

12. Dirtbags (Freepers)

should work just as effectively

[WiseButAngrySara]

16. Thanks, that makes sense. What are the levees themselves lined with

or constructed out of? Cement? Wood? Dirt? I really don't know.

[jmowreader]

22. Usually concrete

For a permanent levee, where you're trying to make something that will last and you have the luxury of time, concrete is the best choice.

Unfortunately for rescue efforts, there usually isn't enough hydraulic cement (the kind that sets underwater) sitting around in the vicinity of a disaster to make permanent levees right away. So sandbags are the thing.

[SlackJawedYokel]

24. Those are more like seawalls and rarely breach.

Most levees are just packed dirt and as such are susceptible to washout and such.
Easy bet is that lost of money will get spent reinforcing or rebuilding the NO levee system.

Or lining politicians pockets.

I mean, it *is* NO, right?

Cletus

[SlackJawedYokel]

23. Packed dirt.

The kind of crap goes to landfills.
Some might be reinforced with concrete posts and such, but I doubt it.
Dirt is cheap.

Cletus

[xultar]

11. Sand bags are great cuz they conform to fill in gaps.

[CatholicEdHead]

13. 1997 Grand Forks ND flood

had dump trucks put load after load of clay on the farthest N-S main drag (Washington St). That kept most of the water from moving further west.

I am not sure if it is now even possible with the NW situation.

[WiseButAngrySara]

17. Clay sounds good to me...Did you mean NO? What's NW?

I guess I need a diagram of the construction of the levees; how they drain, what they are constructed of, etc...

[libertypirate]

25. Rail cars from trains. It doesn't take that many to make a stopper

They are everywhere

[doublethink]

26. That is a great idea to slow down the initial flow ...... or the river ...

then drop the 3000 lb sandbags on the down side of the flow. Peace.

[libertypirate]

27. They use them when hwy 1 in CA washes out /nt