Dear Clark and Dean People - Stop Being idjits, Will Ya?

[NashVegas]

To those of you who think you have to bash one candidate to promote another, has the thought even once crossed your mind that, unless there is a hostility between those two gentleman we don't know about, it's not outside the realm of possibility of a Clark/Dean ticket?

Should that come to pass, how much is it worth to you, to see the backers of one or the other candidate grow hostile towards the other?

It would almost seem like setting the backers of these two candidates against each other is your purpose. Convince me that's not just wild speculation on my part.

[roguevalley]

1. snicker

Also, consider how you are alienating potential backers
of your personal boy with your vitriol. It nearly put me
off dean but I am keeping an open mind. I lean to Clark.
I figure they both have my vote to lose.

[rocktivity]

2. Who you callin' an idjit, you long-eared flea-bitten galoot?

THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

Yosemite Sam for President
No to Gun Control, Yes to Affordable Health Care


rocknation

[NashVegas]

3. Who You Callin Galoot, You Pipsqueak?

:P

[Eloriel]

4. Boy, it's not about that for me

I genuinely find Clark a truly unacceptable candidate, and not just because he was a Republican until today or so.

Clark has been put in the race specifically to stop Dean, by other Democrats. And it's NOT because Dean is unelectable - it's precisely because he IS electable AND the movement that has formed around him, which is intent on "taking back our country" from ALL the special interests and putting it in the hands, for the first time in a very long while, of THe People.

He's raising his money from small donors -- people like you and me. He's running a grassroots, Open Source iterative Presidential Campaign in which he and his campaign listen carefully, respond and adopt the ideas of his supporters -- people like you and me. He's not bought, he's not handled, he's free and able to respond to The People. He is revitalizing the democratic process itself, and it's very scary for some who do not want to let go of THEIR power (which isn't The People's Power).

So he has become unbelievably dangerous for those who do NOT want to let go of their power and influence -- the DNC, the DLC, and people like the Clintons.

I should've paid attention when Bill Clinton said a few weeks ago that "there are two stars in the Democratic Party -- Hillary Clinton and Wesley Clark." I should've listend when Hillary gave a glowing review of Clark to a reporter, but said, "but this isn't an endorsement, I can't endorse anyone." I should've paid attention when Howard Fineman wrote a column about the Stop Dean effort in the party. But when Clark finally announced and then shortly thereafter I heard him spouting some DLC talking points, and THEN it was revealed that not only was Clinton "encouraging him to run," but a bunch of ex-Clinton aides and campaign workers had joined his campaign, I got it.

Bill Clinton does NOT have the right to pick our nominee for us, especially when he's thwarting the will of the people to do so. I have been increasingly "over" the Clintons (and Bill IS the only Republican I ever voted for), but this little move clinches it for me. He is NOT a friend of democracy, AFIC, or The People. And he needs to get the hell out of this primary race. Period.

Eloriel

[ScottNeelan]

5. Uhh, Last I Checked...

...Dean had ex-Clinton aides and campaign workers working for him, too. Also, Clinton had words of support for Dean back before Clark was even seriously considering running. I'd post a link here, but I'm not on my computer as I type this, so I don't have my Favorites list.

I'm a Dean supporter, and if you knew me and my feelings on how this place has gone with regards to Dean supporters, you'd know that I don't like to admit that (then again, it's funny how in my last three posts I've mentioned that...). I don't like to admit that because of the stigma surrounding Dean supporters here.

Oh, and last I checked, the DLC may not like Dean, but Dean has a track record that matches up quite well with the DLC...better than Clinton's record as president, as far as I saw.

That said, I have to agree with the first post in this thread. The best way to win over people isn't to tell them why to not vote for someone, but why to vote for someone. Talk about your candidate's strong points, not the other candidates' weak points. Comparing them is okay, slandering them is not. Asking questions about their stances is okay, asking questions worded obviously to insult or detract from the candidate is not. We, as a whole, need to grow up a bit regarding the election process.

And Bill Clinton can be involved in the election as much as he wants. That's his right. He can't run, but he can certainly give endorsements. And he's not picking our nominee for us. We're doing that ourselves...unless I majorly missed something and the Democratic Party has become a Repug-Lite Borg-Style Collective while I was gone...

[catforclark2004]

8. A political contribution is a gamble, not a downpayment on a win!

Loyalty in the Bushie manner is frightening!

[NashVegas]

12. Yes

And there seem to be a highly vocal few who feel the need to guarantee those bets by putting off people who are into other candidates.

Idjits idjits idjits all the way down.

[quaker bill]

10. I am not concerned

Howard Dean is running a unique campaign that still has energy and seems to be picking up speed.

I do not have enough inside information to tell for certain if Clark is the "stop Dean" candidate of the DLC. Some rumblings from the DLC direction suggested that Dean's risk taking in being as outspoken against the war as he has been, as early on as he did it, had the DLC concerned.

However, Dean has been a more centrist Democrat throughout his career, not unlike the DLC'ers.

I would posit that the largest concern of the DLC, under the premise that it has any, would be that Dean did not come up through their channels. Thus if elected, he won't feel particularily indebted to them, and by this the DLC may lose some influence on his administration.

The energy, some have termed it "empowerment" style, of Dean's campaign is what attracts me to support him. Not in so much as I need empowerment personally, but in that his choosing this approach is a statement on the character of the man.

If the approach is as robust as it seems to be, there will be little that the other Dems can do to derail it.

If Wesley Clark can run a campaign that is, over the remaining time, robust enough to prevent Dean from capturing the nomination, then the good doctor stood little chance of capturing the Whitehouse anyway. No doubt, by comparison the Republicans will run a far more aggressive campaign against our nominee than anything we would do to our own during the nomination fight. If Dean's the man, he needs to buck it up and drive through to the nomination. He shows signs of doing just that.

[sangh0]

32. What a surprise

The poster who thinks that Lieberman, Kerry, Gephardt, and Graham are ALL "truly unacceptable candidate"s thinks the same of Clark

[janekat]

33. LOL! Way to try to make peace....

Kind of ironic that you post this in the middle of a "let's make peace" thread.

[Rowdyboy]

6. And I'm the stupid jerk who ignorantly thinks that

Clark and Dean are both exceptional candidates and would make an excellent team. But feel free to tell me just how naive and pathetic my feelings are. I MUST be DLC!

[NashVegas]

13. Not Naive at All

Like I said, not outside the realm of possibility.

But it won't be helpful if either party's backers use enough energy trying to splinter such a possible ticket before it happens.

[janekat]

34. LOL! You must be feeling like a Schizophrenic lately....

n/t

[stickdog]

7. Sorry. My new sig is a peace offering.

;-)

[NWHarkness]

9. Thank You!

The issue is Bush. Bush, Bush, Bush.

Put your energies into defeating the fascist regime, not ripping apart Democrats.

[Lexingtonian]

11. Hey

stupid does as stupid is....

[Bread and Circus]

14. I'm trying I'm trying....

I am still sore about last Sunday.

[aeon flux]

15. I don't trust Clark furhter than I can throw him

Clark has been a Republican all his life and has only very recently become a Democrat? In fact, Clark still isn't officially registered as a Democrat!

Are Democats really that gullible to support this guy?? Something sounds really, really fishy here. I wouldn't be surprised if Clark is a Republican plant, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Dean has no such glaring identity issues which makes him a far more trustworthy candidate.

[Larkspur]

16. Clark is a fraud

He's a registered Independent and that makes him ineleibile to be the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee and Party standard bearer.

There is no way that I will ever support Clark. If he becomes the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee than the Democratic Party is dead.

[HFishbine]

20. I'm an Independent

Would you rather keep the party pure and not have my vote?

[bicentennial_baby]

21. Same here

Are we unclean or something? :P

[MissMillie]

27. I, too, am "unenrolled" (n/t)

.

[Larkspur]

28. Then Clark should run as an Independent, not Democratic Prez

nominee.

I will never vote for Clark. He's a different face to the same body Bush represents -- corporate cronys of the military-industrial complex.

If you think that it's OK for Clark to be an Independent and run for Dem Prez nominee, I don't want your vote nor do I want you in the Dem Party.

[Corgigal]

17. Living in SC

I'm going to vote for Dean. He will be here on Friday for a townhall meeting and we're going to be stopping by. However, if the only Dem I can vote for is Clark in the national elections then I will vote for him. My fear of what Bush is doing to this country will make me act sheep like to remove him. I'm raising kids and I have to be able to project down the road for their sake, if Clark is on the ticket then I will do what I have to do. To me, this is the only thinking that the Republicans fear.

[Padraig18]

18. A-men!

I am as sick of my fellow supporters bashing other candidates as I am about being bashed!

Note to Dean supporters: GIVE IT A FREAKIN' REST!

[Larkspur]

29. This Dean supporter does not support Frauds

and Clark is a fraud. By not being a registered Dem and by helping Repukes in Arkansas raise funds for fellow Repukes, Clark's integrity as a Dem Prez nominee is nonexistant. He's a political chameleon at best.

This post is not bashing Clark but is an honest and scathing critique of a Prez contender's lack of credibility.

[wyldwolf]

19. Dean supporters in this thread show their ignorance and paranoia...

See, this was a sensible post, calling for sensible action - yet some of the Dean supporter responses show just how paranoid and prone to believing (and making up?) unproven and unsourced stories about Wesley Clark they are...


I genuinely find Clark a truly unacceptable candidate, and not just because he was a Republican until today or so.

Lie. Unsourced. Unproven.

Clark has been put in the race specifically to stop Dean, by other Democrats.

Lie. Unsourced. Unproven. Paranoid.

He is revitalizing the democratic process itself, and it's very scary for some who do not want to let go of THEIR power (which isn't The People's Power).

So he has become unbelievably dangerous for those who do NOT want to let go of their power and influence -- the DNC, the DLC, and people like the Clintons.

So these people and organizations should just roll over and let your Knight in shining armor ride in?

Bill Clinton does NOT have the right to pick our nominee for us, especially when he's thwarting the will of the people to do so.

More paranoia. Bill Clinton doesn't have the power to pick our nominee. And he's thwarting the will of the people???? Yeah! And he has black helicoptors parked in his garage, has an apartment in Roswell. Bill Clinton was on the grassy knoll... now he's thwarting the will of the people!

Last time I checked, polls show either Clark or Dean leading the race - depending on the poll. How is THAT thwarting the will of the people? :eyes:

Bill IS the only Republican I ever voted for

Bill who? Clinton? Republican? Is that the only way some Dean people know how to tar an opponant?

Clark has been a Republican all his life

Lie. Unsourced. Unproven.

I wouldn't be surprised if Clark is a Republican plant, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

More Dean supporter paranoia.

Dean has no such glaring identity issues which makes him a far more trustworthy candidate.

Now THAT statement smacks of ignorance.

[clar]

23. Whoa there, pod'ner

Three Dean supporters have said they will never vote for Clark. Other Dean supporters have called them on this. I'm about to join those castigating our fellow Dean supporters, so your subject title is not only insulting but egregious. Boy, I'm getting tired of calling you on your bulls**t.

Fellow Dean supporters who state they will, under no circumstances, vote for Clark, please rethink this. You may believe that Clark is a DLC anti-Dean candidate. Fine. Vote for him anyway. The DLC is not PNAC. You may believe Clark is not a real democrat. Fine. Vote for him anyway. Clark is not bush. Saying there's no difference between Bush and Clark is every bit os grotesque a manipulation of reality as saying there was no difference between Gore and Bush. We must unite to purge our country of this frightening radical far right administration.

[bushclipper]

25. I read it differently, Clar..

wylwolf's post said some of the Dean supporters...

And a few of the Dean supporters who called them other Dean people on it had not yet posted at the time wyldwolf made his post.

I don't read it as calling down all Dean supporters but some of them and, specifically, two in this thread UP UNTIL he made his post.

So I don't think it's BS. Just my two cents.

Kucinich supporter here.

[janekat]

35. touche'

[MissMillie]

22. or even a Dean/Clark ticket... lol

I won't bash either one of these guys. I support my candidate without bashing any other candidates.

I think the party will unify after a candidate for the general election is chosen. In the meantime I think it's important for the candidates to continue discussing the issues. I think it's our job as progressives to listen to them all and not throw flames at any of them....

(except maybe that goon from CT.... KIDDING... on the square)

[Stuckinthebush]

24. Wonderful post, Crisco

As a Dean supporter I am constantly amazed at the back and forth bickering between Dean and Clark people.

Cut it out already!

Honestly, this sophomoric behavior on DU has caused me to have diminished interest in following Dean's or Clark's candidacy - and I'm a frickin' supporter of Dean.

People can be so nearsighted at times.

[Rowdyboy]

26. I agree...

As a Clark supporter I am also amazed at the bickering between Clark and Dean people. We may wind up sharing the same ticket so please act a bit more like adults. I also lose respect for both men when these crazed flame wars break out. Get out of middle school, people. Grow up and admit they're both accomplished men with excellent records, either of whom would be a tremendous improvement over the current resident.

[dkamin]

30. seriously

shut the f*ck up. if you want to tear down clark or dean, go do it on the freeper site. there are plenty of people doing it over there. i will support whichever candidate wins the democratic nomination. period.

if you want to take back this country, the first thing you have to do is regain control of the political process. and the only way we can do that is to get the opposition party back into power.

at least a democrat will listen to your concerns, even if his/her politics aren't in sync with yours. W does not and will not ever listen to the concerns of ordinary americans.

after we take back the WH and Congress, we can start working on taking down the corporate fascist oligopoly-in-construction. we can't have any hope of doing that while out of power, unless we start talking literal revolution, with guns and bombs and all of that. i'll go out on a limb here and say i'm not in favor of that.

[NashVegas]

31. It's Amazing, Isn't It?

Looking through GD, plenty of fuel for the fire today, the hits keep coming.

Congrats to everyone in those threads and here, who's making KKKarl Rove's job so much easier today!

[Tyler Durden]

36. A-F*ckin'-men.

I have never said one negative thing about another candidate, only that I feel the person I support can win.

I thought that was the name of this game: Beat Bush, protect the courts, stop bankrupting the country?

Maybe I'm being naive.