Why not more helicopters in NO? Because the US does not have them!

[leftchick]

And it is not just the marine corps that is losing their helicopters either. There is nothing to spare for relief efforts in the US! All of those NO National Guard took their equipment with them to Iraq. Think of all of the life saving resources meant for the US that are now being used and abused for death in Iraq.

fuck bush....


http://www.fox11az.com/news/local/stories/KMSB-20050823-dsbp-boneyard.a0969e24.html

'Boneyard' helicopters get new life

09:49 AM MST on Tuesday, August 23, 2005


By Carol Ann Alaimo / Arizona Daily Star



Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are taking a toll on the Marine Corps cargo helicopter fleet. For solutions, the service is turning to Tucson.


Military officials are dipping into the "boneyard" at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base and breathing new life into old gray hulks mothballed for the past decade.


For the first time, several CH-53E Super Stallions are being refurbished and put back into service. The massive copters have been in storage since the mid-1990s, said Tim Horn, who oversees naval aircraft at D-M's Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center, or AMARC.


The $30 million Super Stallion is the largest military helicopter in the Western world, about as big as a tractor-trailer. It has three engines and seven rotor blades rather than the four or five blades common on other copters.


Its size and power reflect the aircraft's heavy lifting role. It can carry up to 55 troops inside while tons of military vehicles and equipment hang beneath the aircraft on a sling and hook system, according to military Web sites.

[MADem]

1. The amphibs enroute have helo capability

as well as LCAC's which should prove useful. See here: http://www.bataan.navy.mil/tech.htm

[leftchick]

2. That is good to know. Thank you for the link.

The former mayor of NO was just on CNN screaming "Where is the Military? We need them Now!"

He also noted that we are spending billions in Iraq and we need to use more resources helping the people of New Orleans.

I am glad someone finally said it on TV.

[MADem]

3. NORTHCOM is taking operational control, under FEMA

Once they are fully up to speed, things will start happening quickly. They ARE enroute, not just the First Responders, but other suport services as well.

Remember how much good the USN did during the tsunami? They did a massive load of work there, with shelter, potable water, restoration of basic services, medical care, etc--serious heavy lifting. But you have to steam at 30+ knots to get from point A to point B.

Some people think that NORTHCOM is a Dr. Strangelove outfit--they aren't. Another link about them: http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=s.first_role

[Jose Diablo]

4. Some could disagree

You say:

"Some people think that NORTHCOM is a Dr. Strangelove outfit--they aren't."

The problem with a federal military force being used domestically is that the federal military is not under control of civilians at the local level.

For example, each of the National Guard units is under control and essentially made up and funded at the state level, with the governor of that state making the decisions on how they are used. With our National Guard deployed in a foreign war, this means that the infrastructure that was to be used locally, domestically, is now unavailable to the governors for local disaster relief work.

Will Northern command be able to respond in a timely manner to things that need to be done. No. The levee has been breached with no resources available that could have stopped the breach and few resources to evacuate those in peril.

By law, the federal military is prohibited from interfering with police activities. However, each of the states National Guard can help in the case of civil disturbances. Northcom does not have the legal jurisdiction to operate within the domestic 50 states. It will only be a short time, and we will then see them functioning as local and state police.

And who will the soldiers be. Is it a far stretch to think they could in fact be mercenaries under a pentagon contract and actually be soldiers that originally were in say El Salvador, or maybe even South Africa. Who can say. And we are supposed to trust these people with our constitution?

You may not see the danger of this Northern command to our freedoms, but many others do. Thus the Iraq war not only serves in interests of those that want to steal the oil, the Iraq war has also decimated our own domestic defenses against an enemy far more dangerous that any terrorist. That enemy would be very powerful people within our own country that would try to enslave us and use the power of the federal military to enslave us.

This is the 'real' threat to us now, not OBL or some foreign power. Although it remains to be seen who exactly it is, that is behind Bu$h's throne.

[MADem]

5. Look at their website, it clearly states their mission and restrictions

They do have room to operate and provide support in emergencies. They will not take on a police role except in a serious, in extremis situation involving insurrection--and that was a law passed by Congress, not their doing.

They are a coordinating agency. In a situation like this, they take their direction from FEMA. Their goals will be as I stated, to get people out, get rid of the water, restore essential services.

The people doing this work will be in uniform, and they will be doctors, nurses, civil engineers, communications types, forklift operators, and people with strong backs and good hearts.

We have a choice--we can trust our fellow citizens in uniform--volunteers in service to their nation, all--to offer assistance, or we can be paranoid and rely on well meaning but often incompetent and less invested volunteers, who will not do the job properly or in a timely manner.

I will trust my fellow Americans in uniform.

[Jose Diablo]

7. And will you also trust Bu$h as the President?

There are sound reasons to not allow the federal military to perform any domestic operations. The reasons are that for a dictator to take control and to shread the constitution requires force. People will not volentarily give-up freedoms. It will take a gun.

The only people that can take down the USA are those that can put in the field soldiers that will follow orders to enslave the people.

No foreign military could even come close to putting soldiers on our soil. But within our own country their are always people that would, if they could. This is why the federal military has been barred from operating domestically.

It is not about trusting soldiers, our sons and daughters, it is about trusting those in power that would give orders to the soldiers.

Do you trust Bu$h? Do you trust Eberhart. How about Keating, I think thats his name? Do you trust Cheney and Halliburton? How about Ken Lay and Enron? Do you trust the Republicans in congress?

The real danger, like I said is not out there. It is internal. The enemy is inside the gates. Always has been.

Now as for the web site, I am not interested in what the writers of the web site claim their purpose to be. It is enough for me to see the danger of a military force operating within our country, rather than police and local/state social defensive structures.

As for soldiers, they will obey whatever their superiors tell them to do. If they don't, they will be weeded out one by one. That is the nature of soldiers, to obey whatever they are told to do.

Thus it is the command of the soldiers that must be watched. That is why the military is barred from operating domestically, except for the National Guard under command of the governor.

[MADem]

8. Now, why in the world would YOU assume that

my trusting my fellow servicemembers, with whom I have served, who have watched my back while I returned the favor, would translate in ANY way to my trusting a fraud who stole two elections????

Why do you assume that? Why is there no NUANCE on this board?

I find this "EVIL MILITARY" theme fucking tiresome, frankly. It makes progressives look like kooks. These people volunteered to protect their fellow citizens, and they have to put up with fringe crap from assholes who have never served and who do not get it, at all. They aren't all warmongers, they are people just like your neighbors, family and friends. They were looking for a paycheck, some training, and an opportunity to serve their country. That's all.

Why don't you ask Eric Shinseki if he mindlessly obeyed his superiors' orders. He threw down, and got creamed for it, but he stood up and said BULLSHIT when it needed to be said.

Service personnel are not a bunch of idiots. They understand, clearly, as stated in their oath, that they MUST, not may, MUST support, defend and protect THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

That is the first rule of Military Fight Club...

[Jose Diablo]

9. Thank YOU for your timely response

I see YOU have responded not with reasons for allowing the military to operate domestically, but rather YOU have responded with anecdotal reasons why YOU trust your comrades in the military.

Then YOU bring-up Eric Shinseki who do not mindlessly follow orders. Tell me, what was his fate?

As for the "EVIL MILITARY" as you put it, I didn't say this, you did. What I said was it is the purpose of soldiers to follow orders, not think. The thinking is done by the superiors. If a soldier does not follow orders, they are removed.

One more thing, the use of CAPS when saying YOU, and even the use of the personal pronoun YOU is a rhetorical technique generally used to arouse emotion and thus take the discussion away from the topic, that would be the legal use of military in domestic operations, and bring in emotional context to the discussion.

I DO NOT GIVE A SHIT IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS IN THE MILITARY.

And YOU have not answered the question, do you trust Bu$h as the Commander in Chief of the military? Do you trust Bu$h to use the military under his command to not try to become a dictator?

[MADem]

10. Turn off your transmitter, pal, and reread the first sentence of my last

post. How many people do you know who trusts a fraud who stole two elections?

I'm done, you are looking for a fight. You might try using the receive mode on occasion, if you want discussion as opposed to confrontation.

[leftchick]

11. will it get there today?

I hope.

[Javaman]

6. Because we spend about $126,000 a minute in Iraq...

Kind of puts things in to a hellish perspective, huh?