Clark May Be More Likely to Win than Dean

[usregimechange]

Although I am a Dean supporter I think Clark has some clear advantages on two points:

1) He will not "raise taxes".
2) He has a life time of foreign policy experience.

[J B]

1. And he may not.

That's about the value I place on that comment

[LosinIt]

2. yep, sure you are

[Hawkeye-X]

3. Lack of political experience will truly hurt Clark

that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Plus, the flip-flopping and waffling has begun for Clark, and it's not looking good.

[usregimechange]

4. imagine if

he was the clear front runner, the microscope would be in focus.

[Hawkeye-X]

7. But the best ticket to date has to be Dean/Clark

this is an impossible and hot ticket to beat.

Dean knows his stuff, and definetely needs Clark to help with foreign/military affairs. These two folks are true heroes to the masses of the people.

Hawkeye-X

[catforclark2004]

14. Lack of political experience will be an advantage to Clark

Most normal joes and janes abhort politicians. I believe that they are ranked 2nd on the list of most untrustworthy, after lawyers.

General Clark has had some experience running bureacracies....plus it's who you put on your team that counts, as long as you have the brains to manage them...and in the end make your own decisions. He and Soros have been meeting....and Althought the guy's got more bucks than one could imagine, he might want a small gig...maybe.....Secretary of Commerce. I can see Bill Clinton as Secretary of the Treasurer, and Rubin (who is already on board) as Budget director. Also Edwards may make an excellent VP. Gephard may want the secretary of Labor position. Ambassador Wilson as head of the CIA sounds good to me. Put Graham in charge of the FBI. Gore would make a great Attorney General, with Boies as Solicitor General. Al Sharpton or James Carville could be Communication Director. Dean would make a formidable Surgeon General (then he could wear some stars on his uniform). Maybe we can give Dennis Kucininch the Secretary of Energy spot(that would be way cool). This is fun!

[w4rma]

15. I agree. Clark's campaign is amateurish, IMHO. (n/t)

[Renew Deal]

19. Care to tell us how?

[iangb]

16. Maybe...Maybe not.

If your voters are anything like ours they're pretty pissed with career politicians generally.

We had some woman (Pauline Hanson) running down here. Her attraction was that she was 'just a simple fish & chip shop owner' who knew nothing about politics. Next thing she's heading her own party 'One Nation', spouting extreme RW drivel.......and attracting over 30% of the votes in some states.

It was mainly the fact that she wasn't a career politician that most of her supporters quoted as their reasons for supporting her.

[Renew Deal]

18. He doesn't have the traditional political experience.

His experience is more geopolitical/diplomatic. It is a different style, but considering his background, I think he can pick it up fast. Read some of the experiences people have when they meet him. It is usually personal and powerfull.

Also, feel free to go into detail on the flip-flopping and waffling, because I think I missed it. And with your track record, it's probably made up.

[WillyBrandt]

5. Clark didn't say he wouldn't raise taxes

He's talked about removing the cuts from upper income, and he's spoken a number of times about his belief in progressive taxation.

He said he'd keep (at least some) of the tax cuts that went to less affluent folks.

Clark is a progressive who sounds centrist, who is quietly convincing, and who can crush Bush. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Eloriel]

6. If he won't raise taxes, he's wrong for the country

We have so much debt and fiscal destruction in our nearterm future that someone like Krugman is fearful of our very survival as a nation.

And I don't exactly consider bombing people and things "a lifetime of foreign policy experience."

Eloriel

[usregimechange]

9. if he will

he will get say 35%

[usregimechange]

10. by that I mean

if a candidate has a platform of more taxes (i.e. removing all of w's cuts). I still think dean will add something after going back to the clinton brackets after the primary.

[WillyBrandt]

20. Clark never said that

He said he would preserve tax cuts on the middle and lower portions of the country, and repeal them for the upper class. Moreoever, he has said many times he's for incomes tax progressivity--and he's been clear about this. It sounds like tax hikes on richer Americans, and the status quo on non-rich Americans.

Sounds good to me.

'And I don't exactly consider bombing people and things "a lifetime of foreign policy experience."'

And I don't consider centrist management of an almost totally white state comparable to the ending of a truly horrible, often Hitleresque genocide in one of Europe's ethnic tinderboxes.

Nah, it was just bombing people and things. Really: rhetoric trumps reality; heckles trump a Holocaust.

Why Gov. Dean supported Clark's mission is still a mystery to me.

What profifeth the world to be saved by a man, if that man runeth against Dean?

[Renew Deal]

21. Dean for raising taxes!!!

I agree all about the debt problems. It is bad, but you have to try to understand his philosophy on this. It actually makes a lot of sense. He believes "trickle down" doesn't work. As far a bombing people, if you have done your research, you know better.

Read this if you haven't. It's pretty good. It is an interview of Clark by Josh of TPM.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/oct0301.html#1001031244pm

[tinnypriv]

8. Depends on your definition of "raise taxes"

Lets say Bush cuts taxes by 50% (for the sake of argument) and it completely fucks the economy.

Now, Dean comes in and has to fix it.

If he pledges to "raise" taxes by 40%, is that a bad thing? Taxes would still be effectively cut.

Taxes need to return to at the very least the level they were in the Clinton adminstration. If that is "raising taxes", who gives a fuck?

Time to stop being scared of the right-wing spin machine which says that taxes can only EVER GO DOWN no matter what happens in the economy.

[usregimechange]

11. that spin machine

has the public's selfishness in hand. That is powerful.

[WillyBrandt]

24. Who is the public

Not those who profit from the tax cuts? The media machine has the profits of a small slice of the population in mind.

The public was ALWAYS tepid, or even antagonistic, towards tax cuts. A polician needs a certain common touch and talent to raise taxes (or increase them to prior levels or whatever)

Edwards certainly has that. I think Clark does, too. Dean might.

[Renew Deal]

23. Raise taxes in your second term.

;)

[peabody71]

12. Either could win. One or the other will.

Dean will go along way toward some serious change, at least as far as the public involvement goes.
Clark, I believe may be able to work within the system more effectively. For better or worse.

The ultimate goal being to restore and protect the Constitution and all civil liberties.
These are the rights that have not been simply granted, but fought for, throughout our young and incredible history.
And this is what is most important.

[JasonBerry]

13. Please....

I sure have seen a lot of "Dean supporters" saying nice things about Wesley Clark. One in particular has been going from one thread to another gushing about Clark - with a DEAN avatar. Old trick.

[whirlygigspin]

25. Dean supporter here

I think Clark is a fine man, but realistically, he has zero
political experience.I think he made a mistake gunning for the top job for his first time out.

And yes, I think ego got in the way of common sense on that one.

(I know, they're all egomaniacs)

and why I like people powered Howard, for all his faults, he's
trying to empower people, and that's a good thing.

[WillyBrandt]

26. I feel empowered by Clark

And I feel the potential for America to regain a sane political culture. Lots of other people feel the same way about Clark's candidacy than Deaniacs do about Dean's.

And, believe it or not, very few of us have DLC membership cards.

[Bertrand]

17. You're right.

Just look at the latest polls. Bush is at his all-time worst and Dean is losing to him by 10-15%.

Clarks biography helps to eliminate the smear campaign by the republicans. Combine that with a message of bipartisanship and a platform which appeals to not only Dems and libs, but paleocons and independents, He has the best chance of winning the general election along with Kerry.

Dean, on the other hand, is what the Republican party is praying for because he is severely limited in his attack. He will be easily painted by the 1/5th a billion bush has as a NorthEastern Dukakis liberal who was skiing in aspen during vietnam and couldnt even name how many soldiers there were. As someone said (i forget), name the last time the angry populist candidate won - especially one that has his severe drawbacks.

Not to mention if Dean were to somehow win (which is very, very, unlikely), his presidency would be based around justifying how he isnt some "namby-pamby" liberal, while a Kerry or Clark would be better innoculated in making tough choices because of their biography. There is little chance of Dean enacting any major liberal reform except to placate the base because he couldnt survive getting anything done with congress, not to mention him probably not wanting to because of his heart belonging to triangulation.


Edit: I should mention that i dont believe any of the major candidates to make any real progressive change because of their centrist tendencies and the political climate in washington and in america.

[stickdog]

22. Join the Army. See the world. Meet interesting people ...

you know the rest.