Ralph Nader opinion on California ?

[JI7]

does anyone know if ralph nader has said anything about the california recall elections ? has he said anything about polls showing arnold with a lead ? hasn't he been one of those who kept saying the problem was greens and other third party couldn'tget into the debates. so why are voters going for republican candidates by majority numbers even after the green candidate and arianna was in the debates and the debates got national coverage ? i always knew california was not liberal. it's democratic leaning, but certainly not left wing. feinstein has easier time winning than barbara boxer.

[MisterP]

1. he got hit with a cream pie...

but no trapezes or juggling as of presstime
showed support for Camejo, drowned in welter of other stories (LA Times running six women who say Arnold groped them)

[jiacinto]

2. He probably supports the recall and Camejo (not sure, though)

But I am not sure. If I had to guess I would say that he probably supports a Yes vote and a vote for Camejo.

Don't quote me on that, though.

[JI7]

4. yes, but

yes, i'm sure he supports camejo. but how about the fact that republicans are winning even with camejo and arianna being allowed in the debates ? wasn't he one who kept saying the two major parties don't want third party in the debates because they might lose power or something similar. but they were allowed in the debates this time, and in a democratic leaning state, the republicans are now winning in the polls so far. so why wasn't there no huge outcry against the major parties with more support going to arianna or camejo. and camejo did well in the debates so i don't think you can blame the candidate's ability to debate for it.

[Terwilliger]

6. Don't quote you on that?

Well, the quote is contained in the post, so....

[5thGenDemocrat]

3. Why would Saint Ralph have an opinion about it?

Seems to me he said there was no difference between a Democrat and a Repug, so it should ALL be good to him.
John
Sucks for us -- but good to him.

[IranianDemocrat]

5. Who cares what St. Ralph thinks.

He should go back to doing what he does best, owning corporate stock and saying corporations are the devil(hipocracy).

[Terwilliger]

7. do you have a quote for that?

"corporations are the devil"?

[JohnKleeb]

8. Terwill I am not a green but my politics are green like

and Ive been told by some Greens that Nader sued some of the companies he holds stock in.

[Terwilliger]

9. really?

and....what does that have to do with anything? He sued some of the coporations he owns stock in?

[FDRrocks]

12. Mutual funds, as well n/t

[Terwilliger]

16. yeah?

did anybody think Nader was a socialist?

[JohnKleeb]

22. not me

[Evil_Dewers]

34. RE: did anybody think Nader was a socialist?

No, but he is a huuuuuuugggggee hypocrite who made millions off of those evil corporations.

[JohnKleeb]

15. thats what I am saying

I dont mind the greens

[einsteins stein]

19. COME ON Terwilliger!

You know Nader has blasted others for owning stock in corporations, while he himself owned stock in the SAME corporations.

You MUST be aware of this by now.

[dad]

10. Ralph Nader is like a saint coming down to earth and live amongst us

[ulysses]

33. LOLOL!

Where ya been, canigeta? :D

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. Yeah the cocksucker had an op ed in the LA times today

criticizing Arianna for dropping out

[JI7]

13. i get the la times

but haven't looked at it yet. will look at it now though.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Sorry for the language BTW

I've just had enough of him and his things need to get worse to get better...I think enough people have now suffered for his huge ego.

Here's the bastard's OP ED justifying helping Republicans this time around....

Tune In, Turn On Voters, Don't Drop Out
Candidates betray the people's trust if they fold before the race is finished.



By Ralph Nader, Ralph Nader ran for president in 2000 and is author of "Crashing the Party" (St. Martin's, 2003).


They say it again and again, but they don't mean it.

Despite suggesting they were in it for the long haul, Bill Simon, Peter Ueberroth, Darrell Issa and now Arianna Huffington have dropped out. Their common reason: The polls made me do it.

But what does that mean, really? Did they drop out because their opponents shared their views? Or because their opponents had bested them in debates? Did they drop out because they secured a firm commitment on a key issue from any remaining candidates? No.

That's what makes their decisions to drop out all the more disturbing. Think of it from the viewpoint of the hard-working volunteers who trusted their assurances. Or worse, think of the thousands of people who already have voted absentee for candidates who are no longer in the race — and whose votes are now wasted. Or think of the rest of the public, whose trust in the words of political aspirants has been frayed still further.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-nader1oct01,1,4570606.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions


Ralph is one to talk about wasted votes...hey you fucking motherfucking mutiny maker...think about the 500,000 more people nationwide who voted for AL GORE so you could crash a party, get some attention and have your bullshit lying sack of shit ideals...hey RALPH..you CAN't EAT IDEALS...you can't SPEND IDEALS..IDEALS WOn'T PUT A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD OR PAY YOUR MORTGAGE unless you make loads of money attending luncheaons with the likes of Grover Nordquist...maybe then ideals pay the bills


FUCK OFF AND DIE RALPH and take your ideals with you...say hi to all the dead soldiers, Iraqi's and vitims of 9/11 when you get to the other side...unless you burn in hell as you should.

[Terwilliger]

17. FUCK OFF AND DIE RALPH

interesting

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Yes and his disciples should wake the fuck up

Pretty soon they're gonna have to get out of college and get a real job only there won't be any left.

[Terwilliger]

20. ok

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. BTW...without getting in a big debate about it

only because it's late and I did it yesterday, it's not about the Dems losing for me....it's about the Repubs winning.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evil_Dewers]

35. Excellent post.

Rush Limbaugh must have been dealing to St. Ralph before Ralph :puke: stuck his head out of his shell for some more unsolicited wisdom.

[10digits]

23. Greens are losers.

There is not one Green that is elected. They always want to change things. Hey Greens,come back when you can play in the majors.

[KG]

24. there are over 100 elected greens

but don't let ignorance of the facts keep you from spouting off.

http://www.feinstein.org/greenparty/electeds.html

[Governor Davis]

25. That's excellent.

And all those city councils must be happy to have you. But as someone who has run for many public offices, I might suggest another statewide office besides the top one in California or Washington DC as your next venture.

City council to governor or president isn't a good idea. It's kind of like saying I ran a 20 minute mile today. I think I'm ready for the Olympics.

[KG]

26. feel the same way about gen. clark, guv?

[Governor Davis]

28. Hmmm..let me see

City Council to US presidency or governor of the 5th largest economy in the world.

NATO to US presidency or 5th largest economy in the world.


I'll take door number 2, Monty.

[Evil_Dewers]

36. Green dogcatchers take over country...

Film at eleven.

[Forkboy]

30. Dems aren't doing so hot in the majors either

unless you count 2002 as sucessful.

[Evil_Dewers]

37. Forkboy

I think you took too many pucks to the head.

Even with St. Ralph fucking things up, Gore beat * by almost 600,000 votes.

If not for two "mysterious" plane crashes, the Dems would be a majority in the US Senate.

[Forkboy]

39. so if Gore won

why the hatred for Nader?

And the two mysterious plane crashes have logical explanations.

2002 was a disaster for us.

[Democat]

27. Ralph who?

:)

[Iverson]

31. Who's the intransigent extremist now?

While there is ample information about the Green Party position on the recall, which has also been repeatedly posted and linked in this forum, for some reason people want to turn to personalities, and in particular the partisan Dems' version of Hillary-bashing.

Let's see ... what constructive, thoughtful discourse is put forward here?

Several snipes about "Saint Ralph." (posts 3,5,10)
Admittedly ignorant speculation. (post 2)
These from a poster who only the other day wanted more constructive discourse: "cocksucker", "bastard," "fucking motherfucking mutiny maker," "bullshit lying sack of shit," "fuck off and die," "burn in hell," "wake the fuck up," and other deliberately inaccurate caricatures about which that poster has already been corrected. (posts 11, 14, 18, 21)
Inaccurate claim that no Greens have been elected (post 23)

and so on.

I think it's time for certain partisan Democrats here to be honest. That is: you are quite willing to legitimize the behavior and the tactics of right-wing Republicans, provided that Greens are the targets. Under these conditions, you feel no particular obligation toward accuracy.

Further, calls for civil discourse, which I have made unceasingly since joining DU, are for you nothing more than tactics. You may say it occasionally, but you just don't mean it.

The evidence is on my side, I think. Prove me wrong by acting like grown-ups.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. OK I was angry last night and posted in anger

Anger is a human emotion. However, please realize that I have also been a voice for tolerance, workability and cooperation with Greens to clean up government.

There are a handful of practical Greens on this board..yourself, Uly Jack Rabbit and a few others.

What is NOT logical is going from city council to governor anymore than it is logical to expect that since you can prevail and get elected in college towns, that you can prevail and get elected in a large statewide election.

Reference California, where Camejo got about 5% of the votes in the state election and is polling at the same right now.

What is NOT logical is expecting the WHOLE package rather than half a loaf and being willing to risk NOTHING or worse yet RUIN for going against a party that fundamentally shares many of your party's goals.

What is NOT logical is thinking that THINGS NEED TO GET WORSE BEFORE THEY GET BETTER is going to help people who really NEED government to work for them.

What is NOT logical is clinging to your ideology while all hopes for sound policy are being trumped daily.

I am not a devil may care partican Dem. Move here to California and spend this last week with me while a governor who is FAR from perfect but is STANDING UP for consumers in an energy war is being treated like a pariah by greens for his missteps while they see no problem with handing off the state to Pete Wilson's (the father of energy deregulation's) protoge.

This makes no more sense than when Greens jeopardized Wellstone's re-election chances.

[Rowdyboy]

38. If I weren't gay...

I'd ask you to marry me! You rock, sister!

[Terwilliger]

41. I think that is a gross mischaracterization

I am not a devil may care partican Dem. Move here to California and spend this last week with me while a governor who is FAR from perfect but is STANDING UP for consumers in an energy war is being treated like a pariah by greens for his missteps while they see no problem with handing off the state to Pete Wilson's (the father of energy deregulation's) protoge.

There are a lot of candidates, and Camejo has the right to "split the vote" as you put it. What part of democracy do you not understand?

And say what you WANNA say...Gray Davis is the reason we're in this mess. You don't get to 22% approval without serious failings as a leader!!!!

You know this is the same thing as Nader/Bush/Gore in 2000. If Nader was so influential in Gore's loss, why weren't the Democrats more influential in allowing the vote outcome to be so close...why was the fucking election so close to steal?

[leftofthedial]

40. who cares--his last "opinion" got Bush elected

don't want to hear from or about him.

He's the enemy.

[noiretextatique]

42. my question: why didn't davis resign?

never mind...i found it would not have stopped the recall effort anyway.