We are grossly underestimating the developing catastrophe in NO

[HamdenRice]

I think a lot of DUers are also not quite getting it, although the posts about the people stranded on the overpass are hinting at it.
In other words, human beings cannot live without water for more than a few days -- and even less time in high temperatures. Obviously, there is water all over NO, but it is a toxic soup of raw sewage, storm water, chemicals, dead bodies and animals, dirt and debris.

By now, most of the tens of thousands of people stranded in NO, from rooftops to the Superdome, overpasses to even dry neighborhoods, have not had food or water -- except for stored bottled water and what they could "loot" -- since Monday. Very soon, people will either risk drinking dirty water, which will cause severe gastrointestinal infections and illness, ultimately leading to severe diarrhea, or they will become dehydrated.

In either case, they will need intensive hospital care, but the hospitals are essentially non-functional, and even if they were functional would not have been able to handle an influx of ten thousand dehydrated, sick people. As is the case in many natural disasters, the death toll from disease may be far, far worse than the death toll from traumatic injuries or immediate drowning.

As CNN's increasingly frustrated Soledad O'brien mentioned several times this morning, within hours, the survivors in NO can be expected to "snap" any time now.

The people of NO are essentially being dispersed, which raises the question of whether the city can ever recover, even assuming it is physically straightforward to repair the levees and pump out the water. Consider that several hundred thousand New Orleans citizens are living in hotels, cars, etc throughout the south. The remaining residents are about to be trucked out. All these people for the next weeks will have no jobs and no income. Their homes have been destroyed and they are not being allowed to return for perhaps weeks or months. If you were in that situation, you might just try to get work somewhere other than your home back in NO. In say 3 months time, when the city is finally safe, how many people who have been forced to find temporary homes and jobs will uproot again, to return to a bare building site and wrecked infrastructure that was their home?

What would you do? I would probably leave my family in Mobile, or Natchez or wherever, and go home to fill out insurance claims, but it would be impossible to move back, especially if my employment has been swept away by the flood as well.

Moreover the impact on the national economy is shaping up to be catastrophic. The storm has simply shut down a lot of crude oil production in the Gulf region. The releases from the strategic petroleum reserve may help.

But the big problem is not crude shortages. It is the delivery of "refined product". The gulf coast and Louisiana are major routes for the transport of gasoline, jet fuel and home heating oil, as well as natural gas. Most of the gas you buy at the local gas station has not arrived in your region by truck; it flowed in pipelines from the gulf coast.

The pipelines are shut down, because they rely on electricity and 80% of LA is without power. Power cannot be restored, because of flooding and the risk of simply shorting out or worse, electrocuting thousands of people wading through water. The reason prices are skyrocketing with unprecedented speed (home heating oil up 12 cents in one day in NYC; gas up 30 cents) is that gas stations and depots across the northeast and southeast are literally running dry. I've read estimates that the southeast has a 10 day inventory. Long before they run dry, prices will reflect both real and imagined shortage. Expect gas to reach $4 within days, if not hours, if there is even gas to be sold in your area. Rationing is already being experienced, and many gas stations throughout the southeast are simply already out of fuel.

As a result, expect the cost of food and groceries, and everything else that is trucked into your town, to skyrocket as well. As power plants run out of natural gas -- those pipelines are also down -- you may experience rolling blackouts throughout the country east of the Rocky Mountains.

This is potentially a catastrophe of historic proportions. We of course feel very sorry for the people of NO, but you should begin to prepare for how drastically Katrina is about to affect your own life.

[shraby]

1. Maybe even another problem coming down the

Mississippi. All the rain that was dumped into the path of the hurricane will drain into the Ohio and then into the Mississippi. All this will be coming at New Orleans too. I haven't heard anything on t.v. about this.

[gkhouston]

18. I think we'll lose NO completely. The Mississippi is going to

overcome all the years of dikes and levees and settle into a new course. We haven't even begun to see the devastation. :cry:

[BeTheChange]

111. The Mississippi might break free....

I feel it, deep and foreboding.

Im obviously not a psychic... but I feel it, none the less. It almost feels silly saying it. Or completely irrational.

I only hope they can get some of the buses rolling before it happens. Or that Im just freaking out about nothing.

[fudge stripe cookays]

25. I'm not half as worried about the rain as I am the chemicals.

Those are going to end up somewhere eventually when NEw Orleans starts recovering.

We've already seen Red Tide in the Gulf over near Florida. How severely are these chemicals and sewage and sludge and everything going to affect other communities and their livelihoods (fishing, etc)?

FSC

[Pirate Smile]

44. You can now see oil slicks in the water in the streets.

I didn't see that yesterday.

[prairierose]

99. As you should be.....

this country has no idea of what is coming from the toxic soup that is now moving through the water. People who are not healthy will begin dying from the effects of the toxins. Down the road, people who were exposed at this time will begin to develop cancer from the toxins. "Better living through chemistry" will begin to catch up with us in short order.

[bribri16]

52. Sending money to Red Cross but feeling so sad and helpless. n/t

[liberalpragmatist]

2. Excellent post

Kicking this so people will see this - it would be a shame if this were to fall of the front pages.

I'm also nominated this.

[okieinpain]

8. yes, it was a good post.

[vickitulsa]

39. Absolutely right.

People need to read this!

I nearly sh*t a brick when I heard news anchors saying on Monday when Katrina went through with a bit of an eastward turn, away from the direct hit path to NO, that "it wasn't as bad as they thought." One after the other of them said this.

Things were clearly headed for where they're arriving right now -- and word is finally getting out to the world about it. I keep hearing different people talk about *rebuilding* New Orleans and other towns down there, but it sounds like insanity to me. Or dreaming. Or inability to grasp the reality of this situation and the length of time it will take just to get past the "cleanup" stage. I think the estimate of three months needed to restore power is wildly optimistic, for instance.

The NO mayor said this afternoon what others haven't been willing to, that there are probably THOUSANDS of people dead in this disaster. Already dead. There could be so many more who survived the storm who will die as a result of riots, robbery, disease, dehydration... the list of risks and dangers to those survivors is very long. And you're right -- "madness" should be added to the list because people WILL start to snap, and very soon.

W's comments from Air Force One about the disaster made me want to scream, too. "It's devastating. It must be doubly devastating on the ground."

Well, gee, Dubya... where ELSE would it be devastating? In the AIR where YOU are????"

I believe that tonight, before the NG troops arrive en masse, backed possibly by active duty military later, to stop the looting and lawlessness and restore order, is going to be an extremely long and dangerous night in the heart of New Orleans......

[HamdenRice]

42. I've also read of hundreds of bodies floating in the water ... but

the emergency personnel have decided to work on rescue of the living before recovery of the dead. The death toll is going to be brutal, but if people start dying of dehydration and disease, that will be purely a man made catastrophe.

[MnFats]

3. I wish I could find something to disagree with here....

....but the closest I came were a couple topics I have to read up on.
....I agree about the fetid soup that NOLA now sits simmering in -- human bodies, animal carcasses, rodents, toxic chemicals, raw sewage, enormous breeding sites for mosquitos, all in 90-degree heat....we are going to have our own people dying of cholera and malaria shortly....

I fear we are going to witness "LOrd of the Flies" on a gigantic scale in our own country soon.

[OneBlueSky]

4. tragically, you are absolutely correct . . .

and what makes it so infuriating is that, two days after the event, there STILL is no massive mobilization to save stranded people in New Orleans . . .

if ever any president deserved impeachment, it is George W. Bush . . .

[HamdenRice]

Yes! That's why I wrote this! Where the F is George!

To prevent the coming crisis would require massive federal mobilization, and it isn't happening.

The most we have is shrub looking out of his airplane window, looking "concerned".

[Eloriel]

68. Exactly right -- MASSIVE MOBILIZATION is needed and it's not

happening. Bush's speech today is only 2 days late, and inadequate.

One number I remember is 5.4 million MREs. Well, if there are a million people homeless (and there are that and more), that's only about 5 MEALS for them. Of course, not everyone will need them -- some people are with friends and relatives elsewhere -- but still. INADEQUATE. And he pronounced all those numbers with SUCH a sense of self-satisfaction. INADEQUATE.

[vickitulsa]

81. And did you notice he READ the entire speech?

He just rattled off the words without comprehension or feeling. And I noticed that little sideways-jaw-clench movement he does, repeatedly this time after almost every sentence. He's nervous, feeling accused and defensive, and nowhere near as confident as he tried to portray, not by a long shot.

Did you hear him say "determined" instead of "dislocated," describing people from NO, as he read? He caught it and corrected himself, but it made the point oh so clearly that he was merely READING someone else's words.

Of all times for our dear leader to have offered some actual heartfelt emotions and brilliant solutions during a catastrophe, this would have been it. What we got was -- you said it, Eloriel -- INADEQUATE. In every way.

Oh, and the USN ships, including ONE hospital ship, headed toward the disaster zone now will take almost a week to get there. A WEEK!

They should have begun that journey on Monday at the very latest.

[MADem]

115. FWIW, Bataan is just off the coast now

The helo squadron is already helping. They can make masses of fresh water and can accomodate 600 seriously ill patients, more who are not as serious (in less hospital-like conditions).

There are a couple of fast frigates that sortied out of MS before the storm, they can provide some fresh water and some helo capability as well, not to the extent that Bataan can, of course.

photos here: http://www.bataan.navy.mil/hurricane/Katrina01.htm

[BronxBoy]

82. I can't even watch the guy.....

He actually empahsized the 5.4 million?

Lord Have Mercy

[Hailtothechimp]

109. And he also mentioned sending Walter, um, Water.

How can anybody still look at him as our leader? I haven't for years, but how can any rational person look at him and say "that man's a leader"?

[Window]

79. He's a day late and a dollar short, as usual.

Bastard!

[grace0418]

61. He deserves far worse than impeachment.

WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER.

[Kagemusha]

5. Sad about the dispersal part.

Since I come from their origin point on this continent, I learned all about the Cajuns having become 'Cajuns' from being dispersed from eastern Canada to begin with, 250 years ago. Now the New Orleans decendants are being scattered to the winds again.

And yeah, I was worrying about all these details too, but what do you say, really? Terrible.

[Minstrel Boy]

77. Hadn't considered that history in this context.

That just breaks my heart.

The expulsion of the Acadians from the Bay of Fundy, 1760s:

[okieinpain]

6. I guess you didn't see what the godly blessed white house had

to say.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/31/MTFH14870_2005-08-31_16-05-39_ROB152866.html

"Looking forward ... reconstruction is going to add jobs and growth to the economy," he added. "As long as we find that the energy impact is only temporary and there's not permanent damage to the infrastructure, my guess is that the effects on the overall economy will be fairly modest."

See, quit your worrying don't you know bush was elected by GOD!!!!

[Sugar Smack]

73. "add jobs and growth to the economy"??!?!? WTF?

I feel as if I'm about to rip my hair out.

[Garbo 2004]

103. i.e., maybe Halliburton can get more gov't contracts. From Iraq to NO....

I'm being sarcastic and yet I wouldn't be surprised....

What folks like us consider catastrophic horrors, Bush and his buds consider business opportunities.

[Nikki Stone 1]

7. kicked and recommended

:kick:

[Orion The Hunter]

15. Kicked!

Good post.

[shance]

9. Of course it can recover. You sound like the Administration.

Please forgive me, but where is the spirit for what we CAN do. Are we going to roll over and say whatever you want and just resign?

Why not let the people of New Orleans bring their city back?

This whole procedure makes no sense, other than it makes no sense.

[HamdenRice]

30. I love NO and hope they recover , but

I'm just putting myself in the shoes of many and worry whether I would even bother returning.

But to recover NO needs massive federal assistance NOW!

[greyl]

106. However, we need to have accurate vision before we take action.nt

[meganmonkey]

10. I wish I could tell you that you're wrong. Wrong wrong wrong!!!

But you're right.

:cry:

[Bethany Rockafella]

11. Yep. The domino affect.

[OKNancy]

12. The diaspora - Interesting you said something about

the dispersement of the people. Jeanne Meserve said a few minutes ago that the trek out of New Orleans reminded her of the dust bowl.

Then I read your post and thought about Oklahoma. It took Oklahoma 40 years just to gain back the population that it lost in the 1930's.
Really almost 50 years to actually make a gain.

[KitSileya]

13. Good summary of the problem

I think people on DU are more aware of things than many Americans, and you are stating things straightforwardly and clearly.

nominated!

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

14. In many ways, worse than 9/11

I know this wasn't the act of an external enemy, but the economic impact and death toll will be higher.

God bless NOLA and her fine residents. They need all the help they can get.

[Arugula Latte]

62. Oh, this is worse by a considerable factor.

Much, much, much worse.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

98. I didn't say that, because 9/11 made W such a menace

Without 9/11

No war in Iraq
No Patriot Acts
No Gitmo
No Illegal detentions
...continue the list ad naseum - we all know it too well.

9/11 got the little shit in the WH the opportunity to really fuck us all in so many ways.

[Arugula Latte]

102. That's true -- good point.

It gave him the cover to carry out his corrupt agenda with an even more docile press cheerleading him on.

[daleo]

16. Very well put.

A minor point, but everyone can expect huge increases in their insurance bills as well.

[HamdenRice]

17. Unlike hurricane Andrew, there is not transport because of flooding

I forgot to add, that unlike the recovery effort in Florida after Andrew, flooding makes it impossible to deliver food and water and even to evacuate people.

NO faces a series of circular problems -- one cannot be solved without the other.

[MadHound]

36. It is not impossible to get supplies, or even people in.

We do it all the time. Strap the supplies on pallets, food, medicine, drugs, generators, etc., attach it all to a parachute and kick it out the back door of a C-130 Transport plane. You could also paradrop the Nat'l Guard, Red Cross and other emergency personell in.

In fact, if this was an intelligent president we had, there would be an entire fleet of C-130s going non-stop. Instead, we're stuck with doofus, and he's just letting NO go to hell.:cry:

[Jacobin]

19. "80 % of Louisiana is without power"....is not at all correct

I'm here, dude and 80% of Louisiana DOES have power. Its the southeastern part that does not.

You make some valid points but not all the pipelines are in the southeast. Many are southwest and south central Louisiana.

Prices will go up. It will take time to get the production back to normal and the pipelines untangled from the storm.

Dredging the Mississippi at the mouth will be a problem, since it got silted up in the storm badly.

Fricking interestate 10 bridge is out for miles.

The city itself will take months and months to make even partially habitable.

I'm curious about the unexpected consequences of all this stuff.

[HamdenRice]

28. If so, I stand corrected about 80% but that's what CNN was reporting ...

also re the pipelines, I didn't mean they are all down, but the Colonial and Plantation pipelines feed the southeast and northeast and they are apparently down.

just goes to show that there are choke points in the system.

[many a good man]

64. I heard 11% of all crude, 25% of refined petro pipelines

in the United States are affected. The sellers have already invoked a special clause revoking delivery promises and are already rationing gasoline sales. Now we have a REAL reason to pay more at the pumps.

Rebuilding NO will take YEARS and cost over a hundred billion. The people must be resettled and given housing and money for years. No one should move back in until the toxic waste is cleaned up and a solution to flooding is engineered.

The $186 Million per day we spend in Iraq would be better spent here. This is natural disaster that ranks in cost terms about the same as that unnatural disaster in Iraq.

[Pithy Cherub]

20. This is the beginning of a ripple effect

that people can not wrap their mids around. I am having trouble understanding that the way of life I had LAST WEEK is no longer because American history will have the epochal period, Before Katrina and After Katrina.

Everyone in the United States of America better appreciate the "response" because what happens should there be another natural disaster of epic proportions or a terrorist attack involving bio or nuclear terrorism. Would you be "happy" with the response shown during the crisis of Katrina?

[riverwalker]

21. thank you

People have been on rooftops for 3 days without food or water in 100 degree heat. They are dying as we speak.

[donheld]

22. It's very hard for most people to grasp

I know very well it's bad. There are no words to describe it. This will take quite awhile to really sink in. Damn, our fearless leader and his cabal government can't even get it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. I have been telling everyone I know since Monday that this

disaster will have far-reaching implications for our entire nation. This may serve as the turning point I thought peak oil would be. This is not a simple matter of rebuilding and reabsorbing.

I have told people the majority of deaths will occur well after the storm has passed.

I was directly in the path of two of the four Florida hurricanes last year. I still routinely drive by unrepaired damage. I know people still jobless because of the storms. And they were pitiful thunderstorms by comparison to the devastation Katrina has wrought.

The ripple effect will be catastrophic. Absolutely catastrophic.

[bleedingheart]

24. CHOLERA, TYPHOID, AND EVEN PERHAPS MALARIA

Yes even Malaria in the US south due to this disaster.

[Pachamama]

101. Don't forget the West Nile Virus too...with the Mosquitoes, this can run

rampant too...so the people who aren't dying of the Cholera, Typhoid etc. will then face West Nile....

Assuming of course that they survive the dehydration that will be onset before they are evacuated or rescued in the pathetic relief efforts.

This situation is unbelievable - and it was preventable and there could have been a much better and faster mobilization of relief efforts...if we had a competent administration and not all of our Nat'l Guard etc. over in Iraq!

:grr: :cry: :grr: :cry:

[LiveWire]

105. Dont forget the coming bird flu

That should be hitting the US this winter. God help those poor souls all crowded together.

[myrna minx]

26. I wish you weren't correct, but you are.

:cry: :cry:

[Xenotime]

27. NOLA is a complete loss...

Every building has been destroyed with water damage. Even the rescue people say they have no support. They are running out of food and water and they are running out of time. They said more people are goign to die if they don't.

They said they have been pleading to the govt., senators, congress, pres. and haven't seen any help. No more support. It's very grim.

[despairing optimist]

29. You should call WWL and tell them to stop being so absurdly upbeat

The anchors are building up the slightest bit of good news, such as the water level receding temporarily in downtown NO, as an indication that everything will be back to normal in a short while. They don't mention all that water Katrina has dumped upriver that is headed right toward Lake Pontchartrain and the streets of NO--five to nine feet of it, to be specific.

The stock and bond markets seem to be in a similar dream world. I don't know what it will take to wake people up. They think that all they have to do is open their wallets or use plastic a little more, and they can still have it all. Well, "all" is shrinking fast for everyone, even Bill Gates--that is, unless he has his own oil wells and refineries and distribution network to get gasoline, heating oil, and natural gas directly to him.

The bill has come due. The party is over. Interest rates are rising, and believe it or not, property values fall. Real estate will soon not be worth what it is mortgaged for, and rising costs of business will result in many more layoffs. Consumer spending will dry up, and the depression that began five years ago with the first market crash will not be palliated by a Fed-created bubble this time around.

Remember these times as the good old days.

[On the Road]

43. I Know -- The NASDAQ Just Closed UP 22 Points

What is THAT about? The news keeps getting worse.

:wtf:

[intheflow]

31. Refugee camps.

The Astrodome won't cut it, people. Not for the long term. Very few if any landlords are going to be giving apartments for free--and there's already an appalling lack of affordable housing in the US. Where will 100,000-1 million people live? Again and again I keep coming back to one answer: refugee camps.

Who will work in those camps to feed the people? How will those workers get paid? Where will sanitation services come from?

Big problems, indeed.

[vickitulsa]

63. YES! Refugees, that's what we have in NO, and right now.

A reporter in the city of NO just a little while ago used the term "refugees" without even seeming to be aware that he was breaking a taboo.

"Refugees? In AMERICA?? You gotta be kidding, right? REFUGEES IN AMERICA???"

Oh yes, and there are tens of thousands of them. I heard one guy do the math, using the govt's figures for how many in NO were evacuated before Katrina came ashore. If he was right, then there are about 200,000 people who did NOT evacuate New Orleans. Two hundred thousand people who are fast running out of any safe water to drink. Humans can last only about two days without water before they begin to die. The rule is, two weeks without food, two days without water, and two minutes without air.

One thing that worries me exceedingly is the need to restore law and order. Without order, the weak will die at the hands of or due to the actions of the strong. If essential goods are not dispensed by relief workers, then looters will hoard what is needed to survive and make their own rules for handing it out -- if they do at all. But the very thought of the Bush administration imposing martial law, even in only one region of the country, makes a cold shiver run up my spine....

I think our imaginations are way too small when we think of the consequences of this catastrophe. You have people developing PTSD right now. People are cut off, and we can't quite imagine what "cut off" *really* means. They have no lifelines that are functioning. They are getting no news of what is happening, if anyone is planning to come rescue them, save them.

Chertoff's dog and pony show a little while ago at the Feds' press conference was a JOKE, a total joke. I think that not only the Bush administration but EVERYONE in Washington is seriously out of touch with reality.

Maybe the word REFUGEES applying to American citizens who just three days ago were going about their normal lives will help to wake them up.

But I doubt it.

[greyl]

113. Was that the same guy who estimated a third (80,000) may be dead?

Around 4 oclock on CNN, I heard a guy say that an estimated 250,000 couldn't or didn't evacuate, and that a third of them may have perished.

[vickitulsa]

117. Sorry I was slow getting back to this.

I have had to literally FORCE myself to take breaks from watching the continuing deterioration of conditions in the ravaged areas -- what's happening to the PEOPLE STILL ALIVE BUT ABOUT TO DIE down there -- then I come back and face it again because I feel these people are having to LIVE IT. The LEAST I can do is WATCH it and be aware of what's going on.

I think what you heard on CNN was quoting of the Mayor of New Orleans, who said that he believed "hundreds, PROBABLY THOUSANDS" have already died. Others may have said that or confirmed they believe that as well, but I understand the Mayor of NO was the first who was willing to speak those words.

The reporter I heard first using the word "refugees" was Shepard Smith on -- yes -- Fox News. Shep has been right in the middle of the migrations after his spot in the French Quarter turned out not to be flooded. He left there and has been INSISTING to the anchors when he gets to do his reports that they MUST NOTIFY THE AUTHORITIES about the thousands of people standing and lying and milling around on an overpass -- he even gave the exact location, the freeway name and exit -- so they could be rescued.

I see the news teams interviewing some of the victims who are at a total loss for what to do or where to go, and one old man just now told a reporter with a British accent that he was "very very hungry." He had not, he said, had anything to eat in THREE DAYS. This was an OLD MAN, with another old man beside him in the driver's seat of a small vehicle. They weren't going anywhere at the time, may have run out of gas. The man said he and his wife -- whom he seemed to motion toward in the back seat -- had been caught in flood waters in their home... flood waters that took them up to within "that far" (he showed the distance with his hands to be about eight inches) from the ceiling. He also said they had been driving around trying to find food but all the fast food places -- the MacDonald's, the Sonics, and he named another one -- are closed.

I see all this and I just wonder, what do those reporters and cameramen DO when they hear such things?? Do they give what little food and water they have to the first people who appear desperate? And I think about the National Guard personnel coming on the scene, or the police and sheriff's officials on the scene already, and wonder HOW THEY MUST FEEL if they have plenty to eat and drink??

I don't know ... I cannot imagine it. It boggles the mind and breaks the heart and wrenches the soul.

~VV

_________________________________________

[intheflow]

114. PTSD

My boyfriend is a Gulf War vet. He's having symptoms of PTSD watching the footage. In the seven years I've known him, this only happened once before: the night of the "shock and awe" invasion. :(

[vickitulsa]

118. Yes, my friend and neighbor Laurie is also a Gulf War Vet

and has PTSD, 100% at the VA. She is unable to watch the news of the catastrophe on the Gulf Coast for very long, it makes her very nervous and agitated. I can SEE it in her.

I also have PTSD from non-combat causes, and by this time after watching this situation since two days before the storm hit -- and especially as the situation worsens by the hour and becomes way beyond urgent, with not enough help making it through to people -- I'm starting to get jittery and (I just noticed last night) short-tempered. I can control my temper, and if I sense that I can't, I don't go around people.

There will come a point very soon when I will HAVE to do what I had to do after a week of watching TV news nonstop post-9/11: TURN OFF THE TV!

I can turn the channel to non-news, or just go outside and do other things, go to the store (which makes me feel guilty to see all the food) or whatever, but I have to break up my news viewing because it's getting to me. I see the anguish and rage of those poor people stranded at the SuperDome and hear their cries of blame and anger, and I feel it myself. I see the sorrow and despair and tears and start crying too.

My vet friend Laurie knew she would have to avoid viewing much of this stuff, and I'm glad she's wisely doing that. Now it's time for me to take another break, too, or I'll start having hypervigilance symptoms pop out, and nightmares as well. Already last night I didn't sleep well at all.

PLEASE, anyone else who knows you have to be careful about these kinds of things -- YOU take a break from it too, will you?! It's very important!

There's a term for something else folks in general can develop at a time like this -- it's called "compassion fatigue," I think. So much suffering and grief just wears people down, and they have nothing left to offer to victims after awhile. SO EVERYONE NEEDS TO respect their own natural limits and take care of themselves.

I WANT to say, "We'll all get through this together," but somehow that does sorta ring hollow, at least as I type it. I hope and pray we CAN, though.

Guess I just don't want to sound like our coldhearted, narcissistic President when he prattles off trite phrases his speechwriters set down for him to say....

~VV

____________________________________________

[SeanQ]

32. UPDATE: Mayor Nagin estimates casualties in the thousands,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4530077#4530084

Watching wwltv.com - local officials in Jefferson parish and St Banard are PLEADING on the news for food and water. They said they have received almost no help from anywhere, they have comandeered all the boats and barges and fuel they can find. They have raided all the stroes for food and water, but they are running out, they don't have enough. People are ALREADY DYING from exposure and dehydration, and they simply don't have the supplies or manpower to get to them. All they need is food and water and the government STILL has not fully mobilized. Where are they!?!? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!!!

:mad: :banghead:

[HamdenRice]

34. You are making tears come to my eyes... nt

[sarcasmo]

40. Poor, Poor leadership and it starts right at the TOP.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. As I have said this is a CAT 4 Disaster

overwhelming NATIONAL resources. A call to international bodies should have been placed as of 24 hours ago, at the latest. We have not... this is only compounding the disaster.

I will tell you what you do right now, SEDN a letter to your FEDERAL Representatives adn demand that the US Execcuitive put out the call... they need to call two places, the ICRC in Geneva and the UN... they will not be refused, and help will flow in from around the world, including the technical experts we need to deal with the refugee problem. The ARC is still acting as if this is a short term disaster, (week at the most) the short term for this is six months, the long term is 10 years.

[HamdenRice]

35. Yeah, maybe we need international help because shrub is doing NOTHING

ugghhhhh .

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. No we need international help bcecause this is

a CAT 4 disaster, has nothign to do wiht Shurb, we have been overwhelmed

[fudge stripe cookays]

48. Supposedly, some have offered,

and BEEN TURNED DOWN!!

How arrogant is THAT??

FSC

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. No it is not suposedly

this is the case, and itis a classic, trust me, have been there done that... not exclusive to the US.

I just sent a long letter to my reps detailing this

[brooklynite]

37. They are talking about evacuating 10,000 people a day

...assuming they can find 500 buses for the convoy. That means a week or more to get everyone out. In the meantime, all the reports I've seen say there aren't any supplies left.

[antigone382]

38. Yep, my Microbiology professor was talking about likely spread of disease.

It's just a horrible situation all around...:cry:

[newswolf56]

41. Katrina is literally the end of life in America as we have known it...

which I have been saying here since Sunday night. Your estimate of the situation is wholly accurate, though a bit more optimistic than mine: I believe the resulting economic collapse -- the reduction of American workers to Third World poverty -- serves the oligarchy's scheme for concentration of wealth and power and will therefore not be abated. From the oligarchy's perspective, Katrina is both a welcome downsizing of the always-troublesome underclass and an equally welcome opportunity to increase already obscene profits -- with the additional bonus of a "national emergency" that can be manipulated into a rationale for suspending Constitutional rights should the inevitable public protest become too strong. Indeed I believe this is precisely why Bush and his administration are doing nothing: not incompetence, but a Final Solution to the "poverty problem" in a big piece of the South. When the death toll reaches some secret, predetermined level, then Bush will act -- with an unprecedented accompaniment of fanfare in the corporate media. Once again, the relevance of class struggle: the one analysis that adequately explains what is happening.

The only thing you left out or your excellent and otherwise complete summary is the disaster's impact on retired and disabled people: because of constant and aggressive governmental pressure, most Social Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) recipients receive their money by direct deposit. With no electricity, the banking system in the damaged areas is totally obliterated. By the very best estimates, power won't be restored for at least three months; that means these people -- who already live from hand to mouth (and are often alone and isolated as well) -- will have to go at least three months without income. A humanitarian administration could find some way to solve this crisis, but Bush simply doesn't care. Every such person who starves to death and/or dies in homelessness without money is in fact a victory for Bush and the oligarchy: that much less on social services, that much more for the fat-cat plutocrats.

Worse, this horror is one the media have thus far ignored -- and probably will continue to ignore in favor of serving the oligarchy with ever more stories that blame the poor for not evacuating and portray as "looters" people who in truth are desperately trying to survive without food and water -- people who are increasingly without hope of any kind.



Edit: addition to first paragraph in response to other posters' comments.

[HamdenRice]

45. forgot about "electronic banking" ... reminds of of the blackout ...

here in NYC. I happened not to have cash in my pocket or at home. I rode buses and walked home from Manhattan to eastern Queens. The next day, we couldn't buy anything because we are so ATM dependent!

[phusion]

60. Man...

Makes you really question the whole concept of keeping all your money in some electronic account.

I am the same way -- I hardly ever see my cash. My money is just a series of deposits and withdrawals from some database who knows where. It's hardly ever "real" to me.

[all.of.me]

86. not me.

i keep my cash at home - 'under-the-mattress savings and loan', i call it. i just put enough in the bank to pay bills, the rest is with me.

this topic also reminds me that it is the end of the month. anyone with a check was already struggling, probably, waiting for the first, which is tomorrow.

[fudge stripe cookays]

46. Good point newswolf.

God these poor people. There has to be something more we can do to help them...

FSC

[Nikki Stone 1]

67. Your explanation fits the poor excuse for a speech Junior gave today

They have no loyalty to their citizens nor concern for them

[kskold]

47. diaspora - and return

I'm a Californian, and the 100th anniversary of the 1906 Earthquake and Fire is next year, so I've been reading about it.

San Franciscans did disperse after the disaster - there were refugee camps as far south as Pismo Beach, which is much closer to LA than to SF. My great-grandparents moved from SF to Reno for a time.

But most of them came back as soon as it was practical. San Francisco was Home. And I believe that New Orleans is Home for these folk. They'll do what's practical and necessary for their families now, and move Home as soon as they can. That may take years - but New Orleans isn't just the place they live, it's part of who they are.

Alas, that I can't dispute anything else you've said. It's a disaster that's still developing - for all of us.

Kristen
not new, just quiet

[laylah]

83. A ray of hope

in all of this sorrow, death, destruction, and dread.

Welcome!

Jenn

[HamdenRice]

49. Another thread reporting gas: $5/ gal in Atlanta

And optimistically, I said expect gas to go to $4 "within days."

Sheeesh

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4532259

[vickitulsa]

70. A news crew trying to get from one area of disaster to another

reported buying gas from a man who was selling 5-gallon cans of it for $35 each. Reporter said they were HAPPY TO GET IT, at $7/gal, because they were almost out of gas!

Depends on where you are, what the situation is, what's available, even from one town to the next, one MILE to the next!

Oh, and my only income is my SSDI direct deposit. I wonder if I can get that switched back to receiving a paper check?......

[spuddonna]

51. You are exactly right.

I've heard there are boats on the way, but we are in literally a life or death situation here for many, many people. Three days without water means the onset of dehydration and heat stroke...

I just watched an incredibly sad report by a photographer on WWL. People were passing out on a ferry as they were being rescued. All they wanted was water...

God, I'm praying that these people will be reached, but many of the stories that came out of that last report were people saying "We waited for 2 days, and realized if we didn't save ourselves, we wouldn't make it."

[BamaBecky]

54. I thought I heard the Governor say the Super-dome in NO has water

correct me if I'm wrong...

The loss of life, emotional toll, economic impact and an environmental impact is a catastrophic disaster of biblical proportions.............

Another story here lying just under the tradegy, is the hit the American economy will take....and question is.........how much more bad news can this weak economy endure?

Bama

[HamdenRice]

55. I heard Superdome has not water ... and No Sewage!

There are no functioning bathrooms, for 10-20,000 people. Can you imagine?

[crispini]

56. You are correct.

:cry:

[CabalPowered]

57. kick

agreed.

[Arger68]

58. Kick

:kick:

[TrogL]

59. You missed one very important factor - mold and mildew

I haven't been following the news on this but the front page of the local paper showed NO under water.

All the housing, especially in the older parts of town, will be a complete writeoff. The mold and mildew will have gotten behind the drywall, plaster, wallboard or whatever they've used for wall covering through the ages. It will also have gotten into the supporting beams for the roof and/or second floor. I can hear them warping from here.

[suchislife]

65. And all this crap will go into the Gulf

When they pump it out to restore the beauty of that town. Chemical Dick and his Halliburton buddies toxic waste will trash the beautiful Gulf.

[Donailin]

69. TOXIC mold and mildew

because of the sewage and chemicals and rotting food and oh dear God the thought of it all is overwhelming.

They're going to end up saving one or two historic building, possibly a block and level the rest. It's unreal and a way worse than 911.

Where is Halliburton now??? They owe us 9 billion, perhaps they can start tomorrow.

[Princess Buttercup]

74. That mold gets into the air too

Note--I am in Austin--and after Tropical Storm Allison flooded Houston so badly in June 2001 the air quality here was horrible for weeks afterward, especially for people with allergies and asthma. Same thing when there are wildfires in Mexico--bad air here. Who knows how bad the air will get from the mold and mildew and so forth coming out of NO? And it only depends on the air currents how many people elsewhere are affected by it.

[Interrobang]

85. We're getting the leftovers here now...

The air quality of the storm air is terrible. My allergies have been kicking up a fuss for three days now. I'm ~1200 miles away. I can only imagine how bad it must be there.

[Donailin]

66. Hamden! Good to see you again

Oh I'm getting it. I understood it Sunday night when I watched FOX news. Believe it or not, they were the only network hyping the potential for utter disaster and death. I don't normally watch FOX ever, but in the case of a national crisis, I surf. All I needed to see was the map and the numbers and I got it. And then I prayed.

Monday evening, I knew something was wrong -- the water has to drain and it hadn't started yet.

When WillPitt made some post on NO coming back and having some fantastic Mardi Gras when this was over, I thought -- who will come? The natives will be dead, the infrastructure, if they ever choose to rebuild will take years and years. How long did it take to cklean up WTC? Multiply that by a 100. This is a hundred times worse than 911, IMO.

[vickitulsa]

75. I always check out what Fox is reporting

for several reasons. During a major event such as this catastrophe, they tend to stay on the air without commercials, reporting "running" on developments, as they put it. Of course we all know commercials are a TV network's income.

On Monday as Katrina made landfall, CNN and MSNBC aired commercials even during the most "breaking" times of this news story, while Fox was not showing ANY commercials for quite a few hours. Not ALL the reporters on Fox are obnoxious Bushbots, and if you pick and choose the programming well, sometimes you can get info there you don't see on other stations. I also like to keep an eye on what the RW Fox folks are spouting.

I have wondered if, after 9/11 when all three news networks ran coverage without commercials for a very long time, some corporate execs decided that they would NOT let that happen again no matter WHAT disaster occurred. Why Fox would be any different on this I don't have a clue.

Shepard Smith was the reporter who first used the word "refugee," btw, and he's still using it -- OFTEN.

[AlGore-08.com]

71. Another potential consequence you missed was disruption of transportation

From the Mississippi into the Gulf of Mexico and vice-versa. The New Orleans port was one of the busiest in the nation, and it's impassable until they clean it up - - and until they rebuild the docks and homes and infrastructure for dockworkers, there's no one to load and unload goods from the ships.

A h*ll of a lot of food harvested in the midwest is shipped out of NOLA, and the harvest is happening right now. How will the harvest be transported now? There's only so many trucks and trains functioning right now - - and more trucks will just mean a higher demand for gas, which means even higher gas prices. And where will the trucks ship the food to? If it's destined for domestic locations, there might "only" be a higher cost associated with our food, but where will the food destined for international destinations ship from? Will the other ports be able to handle the increase? Or will this cause a shortage?

And how are all the goods that came into the states through NOLA going to get here now?

Here's a snippet from Wikipedia to show what exactly is offline right now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans#Economy

The Port of New Orleans handles about 145 million short tons (132 million tonnes) of cargo a year and is the largest faction of the Port of South Louisiana, the latter being the largest and busiest shipping port in the western hemisphere and the 4th busiest in the world.

About 5,000 ships from nearly 60 nations dock at the Port of New Orleans annually. The chief exports are grain and other foods from the Midwestern United States and petroleum products. The leading imports include chemicals, cocoa beans, coffee, and petroleum. The port handles more trade with Latin America than does any other U.S. gateway, including Miami.

[HamdenRice]

87. Sh*t, you're right! The entire Mississippi transport system ...

passes through the port of New Orleans. The admiralty courts, the shipping companies, the import-export companies and federal offices all shut down.

The grain, produce, steel, raw materials and manufacturing of the midwest passes down the Mississippi river system through New Orleans.

[Ikonoklast]

72. Don't forget this is only

the START of the hurricane season. We can get hammered just as bad if not worse many more times to come before this is all over. What will happen if we have two or three more storms just as bad as Katrina?

There are still houses in the Ft. Pierce Florida area that do not have roofs or are uninhabitable from last years' hurricanes.

God save us from any more; Bushco is only going to screw it up even worse, just like everything else that they have touched.

[vickitulsa]

76. Another thing I haven't heard anyone mentioning yet is FIRE

-- and fire on a massive scale. Isn't that what caused most loss of life and property in the 1906 earthquake in SF? Fire resulting from broken gas lines or lanterns, spreading like crazy because firetrucks and crews could not reach the fires to put them out?

There have been reports on isolated building fires after Katrina but so far I haven't SEEN any video footage of fires spreading. If the chaos in NO continues, fires could be started by rioting people, trying to get attention and help, or just frustrated and angry. There would be no way to put out fires, I think.

The scope and scale of this is just beyond big, beyond horrific. The logistics are mindboggling. The brilliant organization needed to deal with it simply does not exist in this administration. I can't see how international offers of help would do much good because the U.S. govt would have to "supervise" any workers from other countries and blend them into the relief mix of various groups.

Someone wrote Jack Cafferty an email saying, "Find Rudy Gulianni and send him to New Orleans!"

Which I suppose just points up the difference in how things go when someone in charge shows real leadership ability....

[BronxBoy]

84. Hate to argue with you...

But Rudy didn't do s**t. A lot of people's lives were saved that day because the NYC Fire Dept, NYC Police Dept, Emergency Service Workers and plain old ordinary New Yorkers rolled up their sleeves and did what needed to be done. Rudy was window dressing for the cameras. The yeoman's work was done by people who knew what needed to be done.

The city was able to stem our immediate wounds without massive federal intervention which is required NOW in NOLA

edited for spelling

[vickitulsa]

120. I don't mind being corrected by someone who knows more

than I do. Especially someone who was THERE.

I guess the perception from "out here" in the heartland was that Rudy was truly providing leadership. Have heard raves about him far and wide -- or did there at first after it happened.

Of course, when he talked about delaying leaving his office as Mayor in the days that followed, there wasn't much support locally for that idea, if I remember rightly.

Thanks for correction, always like to have the facts straight. :)

~VV

________________________________________

[In_The_Wind]

78. ! ! ! ... ! ! !

:kick:

[fishwax]

80. You've laid it all out very clearly and accurately

it's painful to read, but we must face the truth. An excellent post, and thank you for it.

[Karenina]

89. The "worst case scenario"

is today's reality.

[Nikki Stone 1]

88. kick

:kick:

[Pathwalker]

90. We are just starting PEAK hurricane season too.

Even one tropical storm heading there would make it much worse. We ain't seen nothin' yet, compared to what lies ahead, sorry to say.

[Swamp Rat]

91. Yes

My mom is still missing :cry:

[HamdenRice]

92. Oh dear, dear dear ...

I'm so sorry, I don't know what to say.

[Swamp Rat]

93. Your thread helps get the word out that we really need help

It's not some abstraction. It's real... at least for me. I hope Americans will come together to save the Soul of America... and then impeach Bush. :mad:

Thanks a lot bro. :hug:

[mom cat]

94. Thanks for helping put it together....I don't see how NO can ever

recover.

[HamdenRice]

95. NO will I hope recover .. but right now we need to force federal action

In retrospect, that's the point of the OP. NO may recover or may not; it depends on what is done NOW. And if the shrub administration won't do it, they have to be shoved aside so that others -- LA state govt, private voluntary organizations, corporations, the international community, someone, anyone, whoever -- can do it.

[Karenina]

96. Nawlins is the wake-up call.

The orb upon which our survival depends is undergoing MASSIVE changes.
It is no longer about us fucking each other over in a game of "He who dies with the most toys wins!" It is ABSURD to speculate about "reconstruction" in an area known for decades to be at risk with a hurricane cycle of unknown proportions still in progress. Never mind that all plans to cope with this scenario were GUTTED.

Reminds me so much of "reconstruction efforts" in a desert land where shit is EXPLODING DAILY. If this is all a joke, I'll laugh. :puke:

JOB ONE: GET ALL LIVING BEINGS OUT OF NEW ORLEANS.

[CabalPowered]

97. kick.

shouldn't be on page 7

[Mnemosyne]

100. .

:kick:

[LiveWire]

104. What about people West of the Rockies?

Gas is going up here too, but are we exempt from all the effects?

[Endangered Specie]

107. No one will be exempt in the long run I suspect

[Endangered Specie]

108. I would like to add that this isnt just New Orleans...

Many other smaller towns and cities have been either severely damaged or destroyed in Louisiana, not to mention Mississippi.

[Hailtothechimp]

110. But NO will continue to get the headlines.

Because most people have been there at one point or another (for Mardi Gras, a convention, a Super Bowl, or just for traveling) and have mental images of the French Quarter, the Garden District, etc. And mental images is all they can ever have from that place now. I've had my last beignet, and eaten my last real muffaleta. And that saddens me.

[nonconformist]

112. Kick. nt

[paineinthearse]

116. Just as the korporate media is komplicit in hiding the karnage....

that is Iraq, they are complicit in hiding images of the dead in NO.

And rest assured the majors will NOT be publicizing the history of * underfunding corps of Engineers and disaster relief organizations.

[enough]

119. kick