"Worse than Watergate"

[Bucky]

It's uglier than Watergate.

It's nakeder than Watergate.

It's more audacious than Watergate.

But mostly it's just more recent than Watergate. Please think about all the things that have been "bigger than Watergate" in past quarter century. The 16 Words, Iran-Contra, the S&L scandal, Clinton's office hummer. They've all been "bigger than Watergate" and yet there's still only one Watergate; the real thing.

The Watergate scandal wasn't just, as current GOP spinners like to say, a third-rate burglary. It was a first-rate black bag job that got screwed up because it was carried off by third-rate operatives. But behind that was a concerted effort by the Nixon White House to covertly disrupt the Democratic election effort. It was a direct attack on our democracy.

In contrast, what (probably) Karl Rove did was, however illegal and reprehensible, really nothing more than a political gotcha against a guy he believed to be a political opponent. It's bad and it's conviction-worthy, but it's not worse than Watergate.

The Bush Administration is doing things that really are as bad as Watergate (lying us into an unnecessary war, covering up Saudi Arabia's ties to 9/11) and even worse than Watergate (the Diebold scandal, the deliberate disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida). But those things are still not getting into the news stream. Compared to these, outing Ms. Plame is nothing more than a minor distraction.

Let's keep our eyes on the ball, people: ABB 04.

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. i disagree with this

"In contrast, what (probably) Karl Rove did was, however illegal and reprehensible, really nothing more than a political gotcha against a guy he believed to be a political opponent. It's bad and it's conviction-worthy, but it's not worse than Watergate."


1. Bush undermined the CIA.
2. They outed an operative which could result in the deaths of up to 70 undercover agents.
3. The mission of uncovering WMDs has been compromised
4. It is a high crime (impeachable offense) to name an agent
5. The conflicts of interest are enough to force resignations
6. Any cover-up is impeachable (they had 2 months and 11 hours to shred evidence and coordinate alibis)
7. undermines democracy by trying to silent critics and people who have info available to them which can debunk WH lies.

etc.

this is worse than watergate.
it does not have to do with a burglary about political strategy, it has to do with going to WAR, make that a pre-emptive war based on lies to Congress and the american people.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. It's At Least As Bad

I don't know if i think it's worse or not. But, it's certainly to the same level of illegality, conspiracy, and subversion.

So, i think i'm between you and Bucky on this.
The Professor

[Bucky]

6. I respect your dissent

I agree that the Plame game and the WMD lies are marginally connected. But please note that the Plame naming has succeeded in knocking the "missing" WMD story out of the headlines. The press is chasing a sidebar while the story that got 20,000 Iraqis and 300 Americans dead is going unreported.

The real stories are (1) the cost of the war, occupation, and reconstruction is bankrupting the federal government, which in turn is passing off the income shortfall to the state level, and (2) the lies and half-truths used to justify this war, which was in fact a big distraction from the faltering war against terrorists.

Blowing Plame's cover is a sidebar, but it's all the press cares about right now. That's my gripe. As to your points:

1. Bush used the CIA, but they are hardly "undermined." They seem to be fighting back OK. Protecting Plame is their agenda, but we're still missing the big story.

2. I don't know where you got the specific number of "up to 70 undercover agents." The lives that are in danger are their non-American contacts in the field. What is your source for "70"?

3. The mission of uncovering WMDs has been compromised. Very true, but this is a national security risk, not an attack on democracy itself. I'm arguing the latter is worse.

4 & 5. It is a high crime (impeachable offense) to name an agent. The conflicts of interest are enough to force resignations. Agreed. But that is not the same as attacking our form of government

6. (they had 2 months and 11 hours to shred evidence and coordinate alibis). The cover up is always worse than the crime.

7. undermines democracy by trying to silent critics and people who have info available to them which can debunk WH lies.

I think you're missing my main point about proportionality of the harms they've done. Committing crimes to intimidate critics is serious. I don't dispute that. It's ugly and it backfired on them. But the standard being used, the whole hyperbole of being "worse than Watergate," is not being met.

Watergate was, at its heart, an attack on the institutions of democracy. What's more, it was a successful attack. The Democrats nominated their weakest candidate and the Republicans effectively stole the '72 election.

The Republicans are up to stuff that meets the Watergate standard--the Florida voter rolls scandal is one example I've cited. The Plame outing is a bigger spectacle right now and may lead to our side winning more points in the long run. But it's far from being the biggest, worst, or most destructive thing this administration is doing.

If we only focus on this, we're going to lose the game.

[Skidmore]

3. And how many of these idiots in power have connections

to Nixon's crew, either by actually working in that administration or being trained by one of Nixon's operatives. Watergate was the single most destructive event in American political history and we are still living with the fallout. It is the national trauma that won't go away. Nixon lives on in the Bushistas. It's worse than Watergate because this bunch learned that they could get away with a small burglary and live to be given the combination to the national treasury to loot at their pleasure. This is a dangerous and twisted bunch of individuals with whom our nation will be saddled for a long time unless they are PUNISHED for their CRIMES.

[bluesoul]

4. Justice for all

Enough for a number of people from the administration to be put in jail!

[Booberdawg]

5. Bullshit - it's worse