I don't think much of Hugo Chavez anymore....

[BiggJawn]

Had to run an errand in the next town this evening, so i check the gas prices....

$3.30, $3.30, FOUR DOLLARS??????

The Shell was $3.30

"Swifty" was $3.30.

Care to guess who was raping the populace for FOUR DOLLARS?

Citgo.

Fuck you, Hugo, you're no better than Tinman Cheny.

[Missy M]

1. What does that have to do with Chavez?.....

I'm sure he has no control over what your local Citgo is charging. I think the owner of that Citgo is making the price.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Agreed

[BiggJawn]

4. And if you asked the owner...

He'd probably say "I don't set th' price, I hafta charge what the COMPANY tells me to sell it fer..."

And Ralph Nader wasn't doing Karl's bidding, either.

[RoyGBiv]

7. He's probably telling the truth ...

I managed several different stores over the years that sold gasoline. At none of these stores did I have any influence at all over the price we charged for gasoline beyond a 1-5 cent margin I could use to compete with nearby stations.

[Missy M]

10. I'm sorry but I don't think that applies in this situation...

to blame Hugo Chavez for what your local Citgo is charging with what is going on right now just doesn't make sense. He has already made an offer to our government to help but you can be sure the bush administration won't take him up on it even though they should. Blaming Chavez for what your Citgo is charging is ridiculous.

[RoyGBiv]

18. I don't understand this ...

Granted there are numerous factors involved in this situation that have little to nothing to do with the owners of Citgo Petroleum, but they have equally little to do with the man or woman who owns the gasoline station. That person makes less than anyone in the petroleum food-chain off a gasoline sale.

However ...

If my local Wal-Mart is paying its employees 10 cents above minimum wage while the Wal-Mart in Dallas is paying their employees 20 cents above minimum wage, do I blame the local manager or the CEO that sets the policy of how local cost-of-living index figures into the wages it pays employees in various locations?

Venezuela owns Citgo. Whatever its various agents throughout the world do lands at the feet of its owners. If Citgo is in part responsible for the price of oil/gasoline, then the owners are responsible.

And, FWIW, in all likelihood the local Citgo station isn't even selling Citgo gasoline. The ones around here, all sold Texaco gasoline before they pulled out of the state. Then they sold Phillips-Conoco product. The Citgo sign indicated a financial relationship with the credit card offered by that company.

Stations get their gasoline from the nearest loading rack, which in turn gets its supply from the nearest (or least expensive when transport is figured into the equation) refinery.

[RoyGBiv]

5. Owner of Citgo ...

The owner of Citgo Petroleum is "PDV America, Inc, an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela." (Source, Citgo's website.)

It is highly unlikely the Citgo station owner is setting the price of gasoline beyond the normal mark-up.

OnEdit: Chavez himself has very little to do with this. Gasoline prices, everywhere, are set at the loading racks, which are in turn influenced by the commodities market.

[Qibing Zero]

8. So these people running the stations are getting hourly reports?

Riiiight.

[RoyGBiv]

16. Actually, yes ...

At one location I managed for three years, during periods of high fluctuation, I was updated every single time the price moved more than a fraction of a penny, and I was told (not asked, but ordered) to alter my price accordingly within an hour.

These orders came via a gasoline purchasing agent.

[Qibing Zero]

22. Are you sure of that to be the norm though?

Sounds like someone there really cared about their profits. =P

[RoyGBiv]

30. The Norm ...

Depends on who you're talking about as to what's normal, that is what kind of station, who owns the tanks, how often they are filled, etc.

The station to which I referred had one underground tank that held about 10,000 gallons. The station typically sold 50-70,000 gallons a week depending on the season and the price in relation to nearby stores. (This was a gas-war area where markups were typically between 3/4 of a cent to 2 cents per gallon.) The delivery trucks could carry no more than 8,000 gallons, which meant on busy days we got more than one delivery per day. In those situations, frequent updates are required.

There are many other kinds of stations though. The parent company of the above mentioned station purchased gasoline by contract at a set price several times per day. At any given moment some stores with high volume could be selling below cost, which is illegal here, but since the measure of this is based on a company-wide accounting, they'd average it out by raising the price at a store that had a lower volume and thus had gasoline in the ground that had been purchased at a lower price. Those slower stations were still updated frequently, but for different direct reasons.

Independent owners update their price whenever they feel like it, but indepdenent owners that also control their own tanks aren't all that common any more. Most often an indepdenent owner owns the store while a larger company, usually a company dedicated to wholesale gasoline distribution, owns the tanks. They pay the store owners a commission, usually by volume, but not always. These people might actually be updated less than once a week, depending on their volume, but they probably have a contractual obligation to maintain price parity with nearby locations.

Obviously there are swindlers out there, but chances are your local gasoline dealer is not one of them. The petroleum companies have control over most aspects of the market and are the greatest influence in the day-to-day cost of gasoline.

[Mr_Spock]

15. Don't use logic here - all politics should be determined day by day

based on your pocketbook :eyes:

Exactly the Republican strategy at obtaining power...

[SofaKingLiberal]

3. Are you sure somebody isn't gouging?

[BiggJawn]

6. Not in Indiana.

They won't even open an investigation unless it's 2-3 DOLLARS over the stae-wide average.
They'll have to get to $7 before you could get the Atty. General to do something.

[Lex]

9. Has Bush accepted Chavez's offer to open up more fuel to us?

I don't think so.

----------------

"CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the U.S. government, on Wednesday called U.S. President George W. Bush a "cowboy" who had failed to manage the Hurricane Katrina disaster and evacuate victims.

"That government had no evacuation plan, it is incredible, the first power in the world that is so involved in Iraq ... and left its own population adrift," Chavez said in a cabinet meeting broadcast live on television.

His remarks came as U.S. authorities evacuated thousands of people from New Orleans and after Bush said it would take years to recover from flooding caused by Hurricane Katrina.

The death toll on Wednesday reached at least 200 in what Bush called the nation's worst natural disaster.

"That man, the king of vacations ... the king of vacations in his ranch said nothing but, you have to flee, and didn't say how ... that cowboy, the cowboy mentality," said Chavez, chuckling in a reference to Bush without naming him directly.

Chavez, an outspoken populist who calls Cuba's Fidel Castro an ally, often lambastes what he calls Washington's failed imperialist policies. He says the Bush administration is trying to assassinate him and calls the U.S. president "Mr. Danger."

The two governments frequently clash though the United States is the top oil client of Venezuela, the world's No. 5 crude exporter. Washington portrays Chavez as a menace who uses his nation's oil wealth to fund anti-democratic groups.

The Venezuelan president, applauded by supporters for his self-proclaimed socialist revolution to fight poverty, has offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.

Venezuelan state oil firm PDVSA has offered $1 million (555,000 pounds) from its U.S.-based refinery unit Citgo for relief efforts."

[demgurl]

27. Gotta' link? Thanks! eom

[JanMichael]

11. They're franchises doofus. It's a local owner.

Gawg almighty when will people think first before condeming others????


EDIT: BTW it's the same or less than the local (North Carolina) BP and Amoco near me. I'll double check tomorrow.

Either way it's a local issue and not Hugo fucking you personally from a Caracas bunker, sheesh.

[The Jacobin]

12. Hugo better put his troops on alert

Shrub may go prospecting for more oil with those Marine wildcatters.

[leesa]

13. Umm...the price of crude is over $71.00/barrel. You expected what?

They, of all of the producers need to keep up with the price because their countries income and welfare depends on it. Stop being such a spoiled American.

[phusion]

29. Actually NYMEX crude is trading at

$68.75 at the moment.

www.bloomberg.com/energy/

[bribri16]

14. The gouging takes place at your local gasoline station. Talk to

your station manager or owner about it. Chances are they are getting rich!

[RoyGBiv]

26. This is not correct ...

This has reached the proportion of an urban legend.

The vast majority of gasoline station owners make miniscule amounts on gasoline sales. Those that control their own tanks, which are few and far between these days, make a bit more, but not much more. No one gets rich or even comfortable selling gas at a gas station. I've audited some stores that barely make enough to pay the insurance, licensing fees, and electricity to run the pumps. Those that make an actual profit by running one of these stores make it on the inflated prices of inside sales.

A lot of mom 'n pop style stores don't own their own tanks at all and are paid a commission on volume, not price. Higher prices at these places actually reduce revenue, both in the amount they make from lower gasoline sales and from lost inside sales due to lower traffic in the stores.

Yes, some individual station owners artificially raise prices to try to make a quick buck. (And it is just a quick buck. No individual station owner is going to get rich from it.) After 9/11, across the OKC metro area, two of these were identified. That's two independent onwers that also owned a full interest in their own tanks and had complete control over what they charged that also raised prices beyond a level dictated by a similar rise in the market price. That's two out of hundreds of stations.

Several dozen more were identified as controlled by Shell, which reacted to an announcement by the various transport companies that they would not deliver any shipments the following day or possibly the rest of the week and ordered its stations in the area to raise prices to an even $5.00/gal. They tried to defend the decision as an attempt to prevent hoarding. No one bought it, and they were fined.

The local 7-11, which controls about a hundred stores that sell gasoline in OKC, didn't raise its prices a single penny, even though the price at the rack jumped 50 cents by 5pm when the last deliveries were loaded. They lost tens of thousands of dollars that day.

[PunkPop]

17. Ok, so fill up at Shell or Swifty.

:shrug:

[BiggJawn]

19. Exactly. So much for the "Buy Citgo because Chavez owns it" threads...

Remember THOSE from the other day?

Hmmmm?

Of course, looks like we still have a few who believed those threads hanging around here, eh?

[Lex]

20. I believe that Chavez has offered more fuel and

I don't believe he's been taken up on his offer by Bush.

[BiggJawn]

25. And he probably won't be taken up, either.

Last I heard, Chavez wasn't a Bush "Pioneer" or "Ranger", so why should he give Hugo the green light to undercut his campaign backers?

"Unka Dick! Unka Dick! That Chavez guy you tried to have over-throwed wants to give me cheap gas! whattamigonnado, Unka Dick????"

"Well, Junior....I'd say that since there's a lot of oil men in THIS country who spent a LOT of money putting me-uh, I mean YOU where you are, I think you oughta IGNORE him."

"Thanks, Unka Dick! Kin Ah have 'nuzzer beer now?"

"No, Junior, we gotta get you sobered up for your little act at 5:00"

[Qibing Zero]

21. And did those have anything to do with the price? nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. BiggJawn loves Shell Corporation!

Sometimes there are other considerations more important than money. Whether Citgo fits that profile I'm not willing to say. But what I am willing to say is that how you spend your money says a lot about you.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

24. Don't buy it

My mom told me her local Citgo is .20 cheaper than the rest. I think it depends on the store owners to be honest. I doubt that those stations in GA that are charging upward of $6 a gallon are representative of what their recommended price is either. You know?

[donheld]

28. Huga Chavez runs Venezuela not Citgo

Citco get's its oil from Venezuela, but not Mr. Chavez. I don't think he can tell Citgo what to charge.

[RoyGBiv]

31. As has been mentioned ...

The owner of Citgo Petroleum is "PDV America, Inc, an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela."

Now, Chavez is not personally responsible for the current price of gasoline in various locations in the United States, but his government does have control over Citgo itself.