People are dumping sick people out of boats in NOLA!

[xultar]

CNN -
They had to stop the evac of Charity hospital because people were turning over the fish and wildlife boats that were carrying patients.

They stole the hospitals generator.

[phusion]

1. No way....

Tell me it's not true.

OMFG

[xultar]

7. A guy working with the evac of Charity hospital who runs his own

ambulance service said they had to stop the evac cuz people were turning the boats over as they passed.

I guess they got the fish and wildlife folks to help out.

[bloom]

23. I had heard earlier today they wanted to get about 100 babies out

by dark. They were being threatened at the hospital then. :(

[Kurovski]

59. This really makes my trigger-finger an itchy little bastard.

:mad:

[all.of.me]

65. 100 babies?! oh that is sad. sad. sad.

[HEyHEY]

2. Jesus Christ

Where is the National Gaurd?

[rocktivity]

The national guard is in Iraq.

This, and the alleged rampant looting, are the reasons why they shouldn't have been sent there.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Lone_Star_Dem]

30. That depends on who you ask

The freepers have been working overtime today trying to say they are there and all is well.

This doesn't sound like all is well to me, what do you think?

These people have been left to their own devices for too long under these conditions. Even I, an eternal optimist, know that havoc the likes of which we can't imagine is about to descend on NO.

[Matariki]

3. since there are terrible, ugly & FALSE rumors flying around here

perhaps it would be nice to provide a reputable link when posting stuff like this.

[xultar]

9. Welp it was just on CNN. What do you think I'd make it up?

[Matariki]

13. i posted that before you edited your post n/t

[xultar]

14. Please check post # 5 in this thread Mr. Spock saw/heard it too since you

can't trust me. :grr:

[Southsideirish]

21. Don't you think people are capable of these activities when they are

desperate?

[Garbo 2004]

31. Aaron Brown talking to CEO of the ambulance svs evacuating patients.

He said they had to suspend evac of critical patients from Charity Hospital until they could get protection from military to accompany them. Apparently they were using the boats to evacuate the patients. I think he said it was the generator for their local base/communications (not hospital's generator) was stolen.

Here's the ambulance svs' web site: http://www.acadianambulance.com/

[FloridaPat]

4. Where's the national guard? They called up 10,000 from somewhere.

[Mr_Spock]

5. I heard that on CNN - Aaron Brown as well

Unfucking real!

[mike_c]

6. link? With all due respect, that's a very bad assertion...

...to simply add to the rumor mill. Cannabalism will likely be next. Seriously-- if you suggest that people are dumping the sick during a hospital evac, you really should provide some substantiation.

[nonconformist]

11. I saw it on CNN as well. nt

[xultar]

17. Check Post # 5 since you can't trust me. Others saw/heard it too.

I'm not an effin liar. :grr:

[PA Democrat]

26. I saw it too, xultar n/t

[mike_c]

29. did cnn substantiate it, or were they simply reporting a rumor...?

Remember, the cable media have likely gone into full "report-everything-before-someone-else-does" mode. Just because CNN said it doesn't make it so. No one's calling you a liar-- but without substantiation, that story is like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

[crispini]

35. THEY WERE INTERVIEWING A GUY.

Who was in charge of the evacuation. You think we're just making this shit up?

[mike_c]

50. chill, dude-- I asked a question. Thanks for the answer.

I do not have cable television access. So the truth is that "a guy" said that people were dumping the sick into the water during a hospital evac in order to commandeer the boats?

[crispini]

54. yeah, and the guy was in charge of the evacuation.

like I said in my post. sorry I didn't get his name for you. how many different people have to post this in this thread before you believe it?

[nonconformist]

The man in charge of the evac was the one who said it happened

I suppose he could be a raging liar, but I don't see what his motivation would be.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

72. Gotcha back. His name was Richard Zuschlang

He was with the Acadian Ambulance Service. I rewound my DVR and got the info. :)

[question everything]

102. CNN: Mayhem hampering hospital evacuations

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.hospitals/

[mike_c]

110. thank you....

eom

[nonconformist]

8. Jesus freaking christ. nt

[Desertrose]

10. We need more links and less rumors ...

Does CNN have this verified????

[xultar]

18. OK guys quit watching the news. The guests are liars and we

shouldn't post what they say.

[Desertrose]

41. There is always more than one point of view, isn't there??

and there is always someone to react to what is being said.....

I don't know whats true or not true...I'm not there and I think that everyone threre with the horrendous conditions must be pretty freaked by now.....I'm taking a wait & see attitude in respect to some of the stories coming from there. Thats all I'm sayin'. Ain't calling anyone a liar...I just want more information & confirmation before I get crazy....

[crispini]

20. CNN was talking to the guy in charge of the evac.

He said it himself.

[Garbo 2004]

43. The CEO of the ambulance svs doing the medical evacs was the one

being interviewed by Brown and talking about the difficulties they were encountering. His company's site is here: http://www.acadianambulance.com/

[madeline_con]

12. This is some looters' mentality....

Not to rehash last night's looter threads, but get real. Some people wil steal anything anytime, and think only of themselves. 'Nuff said.

[xultar]

16. True. But we have to take everything into account when we are posting

here.

[Matariki]

44. please don't take it so personally

when i first read your post you either didn't mention that it was from CNN on the first draft, or i overlooked it. Also, there isn't much detail in your post so it was hard to tell how substantial it is. There ARE an awful lot of rumors going around. i never said (or thought) you were lying.

[puddycat]

101. looting must NOT be tolerated. the govt was poorly prepared. n/t

[alphafemale]

15. "Good Mornin' America! How Are ya!"

:cry:

[me b zola]

66. More like "Good Morning Hearthache"

By Billy Holliday :cry:

[existentialist]

90. ("Don't cha know me

I'm your native son?")

Guess we're are thinking about that.

[gate of the sun]

19. I guess from the posts of rumors on Du we should just

believe the people in the united states are monsters. Just fucking crazy ass monsters.

[KittyWampus]

24. some gan't help letting their inner reptile take control. we all got one

... an inner reptile.

[madeline_con]

25. I wouldn't go that far...

it looks like everyone except the Repugs in power and a few ne'er do wells in the Gulf states are proving to be a really nice crowd.

:hi:

[faithnotgreed]

36. no of course not but in astounding tragedy comes astounding

tragic actions

none
none
can say what they would do or what would happen if they were to ever to be in such an horrific situation

its desperation and its complete unknown and devastating fear

its still a wild situation without leadership and most all people there doing the best they can to help but there arent enough people to help and very limited on the fly resources
and who knows who these people are who are doing the things reported
i pray they end up being false reports

we have no idea
truly none

[faithnotgreed]

22. i have seen the horror and it is us

our only hope is that this sickness (and i include bush et al) will be exposed so that sane people will snap back into some humanity

[Leilani]

27. I heard it too

The Governor has said the thing she's "most angry" about is usually a crisis brings out the BEST in people, however, in NO, it's bringing out the WORST in people.

This from a clip that has been shown over & over.

[Horse with no Name]

42. Problem is

These people were left to die and they have realized it. Nobody is trying to help them.
They don't care anymore and they have nothing left to lose.
If there is a boat and they can take it--they are going to.
It's survival.
It's ugly, but it's the law of the jungle.

[rocktivity]

98. DING DING DING! Horse With No Name, you're our grand prize winner!

These people were left to die and they have realized it...they have nothing left to lose.
It would certainly explain why the MSM are playing up the looting: Now that all the "good" black people are being bused to Houston, they don't want you to feel sorry for the ones who "decided" to stay behind and "loot." If they don't get saved, it's okay because they don't "deserve" to be.

:scared:
rocknation

[KoKo]

28. Sounds just like happened after we invaded Baghdad. History repeats.

You either go in with enough troops to handle the job...or you have chaos. There are always folks who do things that are disturbing to the rest of us. That's why one needs some police...but in a disaster with all the stress and very poor folks and disturbed folks and folks with drug habits who can't get their fix...you're going to have some stuff go on that's shocking.

Bush hasn't supplied the National Guard...he didn't do it because they are in Iraq...and maybe the states couldn't defy him for the numbers he said he wanted or Rummy wanted. Either way...there are NOT enough troops to keep order.

This administration and the Repugs are INCOMPETENT. The sooner we Democrats get that MEME OUT THERE...the faster folks will wake up and LOOK!

[Cha]

99. Yeah, what was that

I saw much earlier on DU about someone asking what rummy said about the looters in Iraq after the Invasion?

How they were blowing off steam or something..sorry I didn't go back and check it out more because it really resonated with what's happening now only they don't take kindly to the New Orleans People doing it because rummy isn't trying to cover his Lyin' ass.

[Pastiche423]

115. Rummy's quote...

"Freedom," Rumsfeld told the press, "is untidy" and bad things "happen" when nations are "liberated."

...Rumsfeld has spoken in dismissive, condescending, and even derisive terms about global outrage over the looting of Iraq's cultural wealth. "How many vases can one nation possess?" (or words to that effect), Rumsfeld asked chuckling reporters.

http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Iraq/050403_looting_of_iraq.htm

[Cha]

117. Thanks, Pastiche!

And "Bad things happen when"..a city is inundated with water and wiped out from a hurricane Especially when money was SLASHED from their budget for prevention and people in New Orleans were left stranded at the airport because we had no leadership to order the planes to New Orleans to pick them up.

I'm not saying the looting is right..just that rummy is full of SHIT!

[zyx]

32. holy shit that is just wrong

So people are willing to kill each other so they won't catch a bug?

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Quick! Call the National Guar....

...Oh, wait.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Wow, it sure would be nice if the National Guard was around, wouldn't it?

You know, since that's their job, and stuff.

Oh, wait, I forgot- they're off fighting a war based 100% on lies, so that we can establish a Shiite Theocracy in Iraq. Oh well.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

47. Who is going to shoot the law enforcement officers who are looting?

Just asking...

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nonconformist]

58. Enjoy your stay. nt

[Scout1071]

61. I am getting the weirdest craving.

Think I'll check the freezer for pizza rolls....

[Cha]

104. Tombstone pizza?

[Warren DeMontague]

116. I smelled it first!

I demand credit! :woohoo:

[Horse with no Name]

67. Break away--curious what you have to say

:popcorn:

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

78. Buh Bye

It's tough living in a cerebral world for someone of your mental capacity.
Tell Rush I said hey.

[Scout1071]

80. Have fun in hell.

[Solly Mack]

82. ROFLMAO Oh, do you aspire...and that's your downfall

[Teaser]

83. I shudder to think of you trying to breed...

Because you just can't figure out what to do with that needle of a dick you have.

[hnsez]

84. bah this guy isnt worth flaming

[renie408]

95. That's not very Christian of you...

Isn't that a requirement to join your side?? Along with the secret handshake and the suspension of critical thinking?

After that, what do you follow up with? "Nahney Nahney boo boo"??

[Richard Steele]

85. I just WELCOMED you to DU 20 minutes ago...I take it back!

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!

[Solly Mack]

86. Freep-Dar failing?

:)

[Richard Steele]

96. The post I replied to was incoherent, but not in a Freepish way.

I just thought he was drunk, and I'm
certainly in no position to throw stones on THAT issue!

[Solly Mack]

100. speaks well of you that you give people the benefit of the doubt

:)

[Richard Steele]

108. I feel OBLIGATED to do so, being abit on the "doubtful" side myself!

Sometimes you get burned, but so what?
A friendly "hello" doesn't cost me anything.

And the Freepers never last long;
they have the emotional development of children,
and they simply don't have the self-control required
to even PRETEND to be an adult for an hour at a time.

[BikeWriter]

89. He won't last long.

[ThoughtCriminal]

53. Couldn't blame LA NG - 3000 are in Iraq

along with helicopters, high water vehicles, generators and other equipment.

[Canadian Socialist]

63. I don't think that anyone is blaming the LA national guard

considering they aren't (for the most part) not even there. You know what I would love to see? And this pure fantasy on my part, BTW... Canadian Armed Forces (you know, the ones that are not in Iraq) come down and restore order. We do have a very good peacekeeping tradition (having invented it and all <see Pearson, Lester, Prime Minister of Canada - Nobel Peace Prize winner>). This post is not to gloat... but we do have our fair share of natural disasters, and deal with them calmly and competently. Just sayin'

[nonconformist]

40. They're shooting at the helicopters?

Holeeeeee fuck.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcos]

70. "Stoned" street thugs?

Right... those evil and violent pot addicts always causing trouble... :eyes:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

87. I'll show you who's "stoned".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=175984

[arcos]

97. LOL! Thanks!

Made me laugh :D

[Matariki]

49. just knock this off

are you listening to crazy talk radio to get your "facts"?

[xultar]

55. ...

I hit the alert. possible uninvited guest who may be Tmbstnd soon. Let's watch this one.

[Horse with no Name]

73. Damn X

I wanted to play with him for a bit.
He promised to "break one off in my ass"--and I am waiting patiently.
:crazy:

[xultar]

74. It is probably so small he couldn't find it to break it.

:rofl:

[mike_c]

93. me too-- it's fun squashing the cockroaches....

eom

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scout1071]

56. Gun stores and pawn shops with weapons have all been looted.

Keep that in mind.

It's chaos.

[Matariki]

64. please read this post - firsthand account

not that i necessarily think you're here to be reasonable, but maybe you are.

actually anyone stuck on the whole "looting" thing, please read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4539500&mesg_id=4539500

[beetbox]

88. Some guys lookin' like they are about to do somethin'

[WI Independent]

38. Why is this so unbelievable?

It's not like all (or even the majority) of NO has turned into animals. New Orleans is an urban area with it's fair share (at least) of gangs, car jackers, sociopaths, psychopaths, etc...

Does anyone seriously expect them to see the light and become humanitarians in these conditions???

[nonconformist]

45. Very good point and one that needs to be repeated. nt

[bloom]

57. Well you can just sit there and pretend it is fine and normal

to dump sick people out of boats. :crazy:

I am willing to cut freaked out people (even criminals) some amount of slack. But there are plenty of places for people to target without them targeting the hospital. Let them loot the pharmacies or whatever.

I am outraged when the US military targets the hospitals in Iraq and I am just as outraged when people do so in the States. There is no excuse.

[davepc]

68. It's not "fine and normal"

but its what happens when there is a total and utter breakdown of social order, and there are no longer consequences to actions.

There's a reason why the elements of ordered civilization and society (the government) revert to 'shoot to kill' rules of engagement when restoring control to lawless areas.

Anarchy and the rule of the jungle take hold absent any other system.

The strong prey upon the weak, up to and including dumping sick people out of boats to take them.

[bloom]

92. Some people seem to have

a higher level of acceptance of these things than I do. I get pretty tired of it.

Just like the people who say rape - well - that happens. So it does. That doesn't mean I have to tolerate it. (It might make me think about carrying my own gun, though.) To me - it's like the more people accept that such behavior is "normal" for a situation - the more likely it is to happen.


As the next poster wrote - the MSM might be trying to exaggerate the view of the people as villains. That would not surprise me - given their history. The boat story may even be bogus (not saying CNN didn't report it though).

[davepc]

103. Who's tolerating or accepting it?

We have society's and governments and authority and social contracts for a REASON.

When they are dissolved or fall apart like in New Orleans this week then the reason we have those things becomes readily apparent. Because in the absence of society there is nothing but every man and woman for themselves anarchy. Anarchy allows the worst of the human condition to emerge. Anarchy allows otherwise 'normal' citizens in a society to act in ways that are abhorrent. Anarchy is the absence of government.

I don't understand the people who are unable to grasp that. Anarchy is the law right now in New Orleans. Order and government only exists where the National Guard brings it. They bring it with men who have guns and orders to use them if necessary.

[bloom]

111. There is the person I was responding to

WI Independent (111 posts)
Wed Aug-31-05 10:39 PM
Response to Original message

38. Why is this so unbelievable?

It's not like all (or even the majority) of NO has turned into animals. New Orleans is an urban area with it's fair share (at least) of gangs, car jackers, sociopaths, psychopaths, etc...

Does anyone seriously expect them to see the light and become humanitarians in these conditions???

-------

And there is this person (who doesn't differentiate between property crimes and violence):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4538505&mesg_id=4538744

JustSayNO 2 Sheeples (57 posts)
Wed Aug-31-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message

12. So what?

It's okay, they are only doing it (rape) because they are stuck without and it's a disaster. Or at least that is what the people here who support the looters surely must think.

(you see, it's not just looting, it's the total lawlessness that is gripping the city. The police overlook the looting, next its murder and rape).
-----

And then there is you. You seem to see it as inevitable, also. I don't.

It could be argued that it is inevitable in our society as it is - as authoritarian and as divided as it is. I don't think that it inevitable for all societies - for people to act this way - simply because they can...

[davepc]

114. It is inevitable under conditions of anarchy!

if people were able to live happily ever after without any sort of social systems in place to set norms of acceptable behavior and punish unacceptable behavior then governments or societies never would have been invented!

Without any higher systematic order then the law of the jungle is the way of the land.

The law of the jungle is brutal, oppressive, and makes victims out of innocents because they are not strong enough to protect themselves from predators.

might makes right, and the strong prey upon the weak.

google "tsunami and rape". It is not unique or special to our system of government or our society.


When governments break down, violence and anti-social behavior rise up like worms after a rainstorm.

[mondo joe]

112. Well there has been some talk on DU about justifying the breakdown,

attributing it to overall social injustice, the "peasant's revolt", or "we can't judge these people from the comfort of our homes".

Remarkable mental gymnastics have been performed to avoid having to admit that some people are simply doing BAD things.

[gate of the sun]

71. it's funny but in NYC after 9-11 reports said the city had a different

feeling, people were different and affected by what happened....granted I live in NYC there were shootings right next to my house a few months back. I'm not immune to the idea of violence yet somehow I'm seeing something being created about the victims here....something trying to say look how horrible these people are...raping, carrying guns, shooting, trying to get into the children's hospital, turning over rescue boats. etc etc. it smells it reeks of something we need to be aware of how our media manipulates situations.How can we be skeptical of them all the time and then suddenly trust what we are hearing in this event???/come on it's sounding abit outrageous to me. I don't even buy this idea of the intensity of the situation is making people go crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if something happened today in New Orleans that would make us shake our head in wonder but I doubt the depths of the depravity that is being sold to the american people lets keep our heads.. and not just buy into this.....a good question would be what does it serve the media to portray the people in NO this way? What does it serve the US government to have the people portrayed this way?
Lastly.....they are not being helped in a timely manner...what's up with that? but if we keep focused on the depravity of the people in the situation it can be a clever distraction from what really needs to be addressed....like why is the relief and rescue work coming up so goddamn short.

[davepc]

There wasn't a total breakdown of social order in NYC on 9-11

While massive and terrible, the effected area was relatively small. Government continued to function throughout the city and surrounding area.

It's not a comparable situation.

[donheld]

48. People are dumping sick people out of boats in NOLA!?

Those are just practice runs for *'s boat photo op.

[xultar]

60. We should all hope.

[Guaranteed]

51. No, no, people don't do that. nt

[Cleita]

69. Xultar, are you sure?

I trust your posts as not trying to hype the sensational.

[xultar]

77. Check out Post # 5. from Mr. Spock. He saw the story on CNN.

Read the thread. Others saw it also. Check post #31 too.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

76. This was reported by a Mr Richard Zuschliag

He is with the Acadian Ambulance Service. I heard it, too.

If you have any questions about the validity of the report I suggest you contact CNN and make them confirm what they aired.



BTW, that wasn't intended for you xultar, but the people who were doubting you. :)

[xultar]

79. I gotcha baby!

:pals:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

91. This is why they created DVR

OK, maybe not exactly why... but it sure as hell helped me get his name right so I could post it for ya. :)

[Telly Savalas]

94. Link

It doesn't specifically mention the overturned boats, but it does discuss how fucked things are with respect to the hospital evac:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.hospitals/

[greyl]

105. Did they turnover accidentally because people were trying to get in?nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

107. Richard Zuschliag's quote

"The situation was that some of our boats were turned over and our people were threatened, we weren't able to finish that evacuation."

Who knows what was going through their minds, but that is what the man who was interviewed on CNN said.

I can imagine the state of panic the people there must be in. My heart breaks for one and all.

[xultar]

109. Wasn't clarified. Valid question.

[Dr Fate]

106. CNN is inaccurate all the time. Let's hope this is not true.

Not to say bad shit is not happening- but lets hope this is not true.

[bloom]

113. Unfortunately

more boat problems were posted on another thread. (Making it seem more likely).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4540952

"We finished the night hauling boxes of body bags and more were on the way. As we left, a man was strolled in on a stretcher and scarily enough he suffered gunshots. The paramedic said he was shot several times because a looter or a convict needed his boat and he wouldn't give it to him. Another man with him said it was "an uncivilized society no better than Iraq down there right now." A few minutes later he was unconcious and later pronounced dead. I then left as they were strolling a 3 year old kid in on a stretcher. I couldn't take it anymore."