I need a question answered.

[ray of light]

this is an honest question.

But I'm hearing that the 'Bush haters' are blaming BUSH for a natural disaster that was out of his control.

And that nbc had army engineers who said the wall was fine. It was built for an f-3 4 and that it was simply a bigger storm than they ever could have expected. We blame bush for everything.

So...how do we know what is completely the truth? Are we 'blaming' bush when we shouldn't be? Can Clinton or every President since the levey was built be blamed?

[LeftyFingerPop]

1. its not the disaster i am blaming him for....

It is his slow response. In situations like this, a SLOW response is NO response.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. I don't blame Bush for the "natural" part of the disaster...I blame him

for waiting 2 Damned days while the situation was deteriorating to get off his vacationing butt and gather the government. Reaction on a federal level should have been immediate. And it wasn't...and still isn't...and we have Hell on our Southern border.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. Exactly!

He shows up for work 2 days after the disaster strikes. He should have been on the job 2 days before it hit. So that makes him AWOL for 4 days in my book.

[ray of light]

20. ok, but this is what they'll ask...

"What difference does two or four days make?"

[Ganja Ninja]

28. Then I would tell them to ...

ask the dead of New Orleans that stupid question.
(I don't mean that as a slap at you but 2 to 4 days can make a lot of difference when you have no water to drink. You can get by without food or shelter for a few days or even weeks but you have to have water.)

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Immediate? It Should Have Been Ahead Of The Storm

He should have gotten his rear back to D.C. and organize POTENTIAL relief efforts before the storm made landfall. No. He had to sell his domestic "policy" before handpicked audiences and raise more money for the party. The heck with a Category 5 storm headed toward a metro area of 2 million people.

His "response" should have been preparatory. Not a reaction!
The Professor

[Big Kahuna]

3. It would be nice to see some f**king leadership...

too much to ask, I know. It's hard work being president x(

[Thtwudbeme]

4. I am blaming Bush for not being able to handle his job

of course he didn't have anything to do with the hurricane.

But, he could have gotten his ass off the ranch a wee bit sooner, and shown some initiative in taking charge of the situation that started deteriorating rapidly on Sunday night.

It is now Thursday, and all the clown has done is fly over some oil companies property in Air Force 1. He's an umempathetic jerk.

[GeorgeGist]

5. Presidential briefing 8-28-2005: Katrina determined to strike US

Do you recall Bush's response to that briefing?

[ray of light]

21. No I don't know it

please tell me.

[ray of light]

22. No I don't know it

please tell me.

[Tsiyu]

6. Oh puleeeze

Have you ever heard of the National Guard?

Where did Bushitler send them? Why aren't they in their home states, protecting their neighbors and communities?

Don't play dumb.

** CUT funds to rebuild the levee and everyone KNEW this would happen if the levees were not made stronger.

But nice try.....

[ray of light]

24. hey, this was a HONEST question BECAUSE people have SAID

it to me. So don't tell people to not play dumb. I'm trying to convince people that we are not going to just "BASH BUSH' for any reason under the sun.

And if you just flame people for asking questions, then no wonder the "left" will not win elections. AND that means YOU and other flamers can stop flaming the candidates if you can't treat other posters in this forum--who are clearly not trolls--with respect.

[Bridget Burke]

7. FEMA has been severely damaged by Bush & Co.

And half the National Guard is in Iraq; not doing the job they joined up to do--protecting their state.

And Bush continued with fundraising & vacation long after the extent of the disaster was known.

[ultraist]

8. I'm blaming Bush for cutting Hurricane/Flood funding to LA

I'm blaming Bush for the increase in poverty which put people in an even more precarious position.

I'm blaming Bush for the stagnant median income, making it more difficult for people to get through emergencies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/national/31census.html

I'm blaming Bush for using our resources for his war, sending thousands of National Guardsmen and women to Iraq.

I'm blaming Bush for waiting for days after the storm to get the fed resources moving so he could enjoy cake with McCain and complete his five week vacation.

I'm blaming Bush for failing to offer any sympathies to those who are suffering.

I'm blaming Bush for yet another horrific mess that could have been dealt with more effectively.

But, no, I'm not blaming Bush for the hurricane. Get real.

[ray of light]

25. i think people are blaming Bush

for the levy not holding up and that they are saying that's like blaming a natural disaster on him. I'm trying to understand their argument so I can better respond too.

Thanks for your link. I've added it to the info. to send.

[H2O Man]

9. I haven't heard

anyone blaming Bush for the weather. Nor have I noticed any threads saying that George was the engineer who built a levey.

I have noticed that the New York Times has an editorial that puts Bush's lack of appropriate response into a sharp focus. They called his speech on the flood the "worst of his career." They did not blame him for the weather. They did not accuse him of building a levey.

The National Guard should be responding to this national crisis. But a huge number of the NG are in Iraq today. Can Clinton or every President since Iraq was "created" be blamed? Or would it be rational to put the blame on administration that sent them?

President Bush exhibits behaviors that many find troubling during times of national emergency. This is not limited to "Bush haters." The sense that he is an inadequate man -- and even more inadequate of a "leader" -- becomes far greater when he is compared to other presidents. He makes Richard Nixon seem like a great American hero.

[ultraist]

13. That is a good editorial in the NYT!

snips

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/opinion/01thu1.html

Waiting for a Leader

Published: September 1, 2005
George W. Bush gave one of the worst speeches of his life yesterday, especially given the level of national distress and the need for words of consolation and wisdom. In what seems to be a ritual in this administration, the president appeared a day later than he was needed. He then read an address of a quality more appropriate for an Arbor Day celebration: a long laundry list of pounds of ice, generators and blankets delivered to the stricken Gulf Coast. He advised the public that anybody who wanted to help should send cash, grinned, and promised that everything would work out in the end....

It would be some comfort to think that, as Mr. Bush cheerily announced, America "will be a stronger place" for enduring this crisis. Complacency will no longer suffice, especially if experts are right in warning that global warming may increase the intensity of future hurricanes. But since this administration won't acknowledge that global warming exists, the chances of leadership seem minimal

I was disgusted with Bush's speech for reasons noted in the article. The FIRST thing he should have addressed was the suffering of thousands of Americans and offered condolences and sympathies. He is not human.

[H2O Man]

16. One of my young daughters

asked me why Bush kept grinning.

[Strelnikov_]

10. I Blame The Chimp For The Lack Of Leadership We Have Grown

to know and love.

[pippin]

11. Blame Him and His Cronies for

diverting funds meant for flood control projects in Louisiana to Iraq.

see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4545321

[notadmblnd]

12. no, he's blamed for his inaction

and keeping his lazy ass on vacation when everyone was screaming that this was going to happen. he's letting people die now because he wouldn't get off his ass and do his job!

[JHB]

15. Several points:

A hurricane is a natural phenomenon, so nobody sensible is blaming Bush for the storm itself (we had hurricanes long before global warming). However:

1) Just about any hurricane is going to cause severe problems, and one that's at Category 4 or 5 is going to cause major damage when it lands, and if it's in the Gulf it's going to land somewhere. It was known for at least 72 hours that Katrina would very probably hit somewhere on the Gulf Coast, and within 48 hours prior to landfall (at the time Cat 5) that NO was in it's "most likely" path zone. Any president who was doing his job would have been keeping tabs on the storm and would have ordered civil and military Federal assets mobilized to be ready to provide assistance. However, other than signing some disaster area declarations, nothing came out of "the Western White House". Bush went about his schedule as if Katrina was just a slightly-oversized thunderstorm, and paid no noticable attention until (with great fanfare) his vacation was cut short so he could "deal with it". (Ironically, this is just the sort of thing where a president doesn't need to be "in the office" to stay on top of -- it's all that other tedious-but-necessary nuts and bolts stuff for which he should be "on the job" to talk care of.)

2) The storm itself may have been natural, but the problem of the bursting levees was political: projects that were in progress to strengthen and raise the levees had their funding cut by Bush to help pay for his tax cuts and the war in Iraq.

Which brings us back to hurricane Katrina and the unfolding catastrophe in New Orleans. State and local officials have know for years that New Orleans was vulnerable, especially in the event of a category 5 storm. After a storm in 1995 killed six people, major work was needed to improve the levee system. In response, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project (SELA), which alotted 10 years and $430 million to the Army Corps of Engineers to build new pumping stations and repairing the levee system.

The warning signs were clear: think of it as the equivalent of President Bush receiving a presidential daily brief titled, "Category 5 Hurricane Determined to Strike in U.S." And yet in 2003, the SELA funds slowed to a trickle. The Army Corps' funding in New Orleans was slashed to due to the twin constraints of the Iraq war and the budget deficit. By Febuary 2004, President Bush proposed cutting SELA spending by 80%.
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000241.htm

[elehhhhna]

17. Here's this years ignored August warning:

This was issued on Sunday afternoon, BEFORE KATRINA HIT.


WWUS74 KLIX 282139
NPWLIX

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...EXTREMELY DANGEROUS HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER DELTA...
...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY
VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WATCH IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE
POSSIBLE WITHIN THE NEXT 24 TO 36 HOURS.

LAZ038-040-050-056>070-MSZ080>082-290300-
ASSUMPTION-HANCOCK-HARRISON-JACKSON-LIVINGSTON-LOWER JEFFERSON-
LOWER LAFOURCHE-LOWER PLAQUEMINES-LOWER ST. BERNARD-LOWER TERREBONNE-
ORLEANS-ST. CHARLES-ST. JAMES-ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST-ST. TAMMANY-
TANGIPAHOA-UPPER JEFFERSON-UPPER LAFOURCHE-UPPER PLAQUEMINES-
UPPER ST. BERNARD-UPPER TERREBONNE-
413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS IN EFFECT...

HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE AREA. TROPICAL STORM
FORCE WINDS ARE CURRENTLY MOVING INTO THE COASTAL MARSHES AND WILL
PERSIST FOR THE NEXT 26 TO 28 HOURS. HURRICANE FORCE WINDS WILL
ONSET AROUND MIDNIGHT NEAR THE COAST AND BY 3 AM CLOSER TO THE NEW
ORLEANS METRO AREA AND PERSIST FOR 9 TO 15 HOURS. MAXIMUM WIND GUSTS
AROUND 175 MPH ARE LIKELY IN THE WARNED AREA BY DAYBREAK MONDAY.

DO NOT VENTURE OUTDOORS ONCE TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ONSET!

$$

LAZ034>037-039-046>049-MSZ068>071-077-290300-
AMITE-ASCENSION-EAST BATON ROUGE-EAST FELICIANA-IBERVILLE-
PEARL RIVER-PIKE-POINTE COUPEE-ST. HELENA-WALTHALL-WASHINGTON-
WEST BATON ROUGE-WEST FELICIANA-WILKINSON-
413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS IN EFFECT...

HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE AREA. TROPICAL STORM
FORCE WINDS ARE CURRENTLY MOVING INTO THE COASTAL MARSHES AND WILL
SREAD NORTHWESTWARD INTO THE GREATER BATON ROUGE AREA AND
SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI LATER THIS EVENING. TROPICAL STORM FORCE
WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO ONSET AROUND 9 PM TONIGHT AND PERSIST
FOR 22 TO 26 HOURS. HURRICANE FORCE WINDS WILL ONSET AROUND
DAYBREAK AND PERSIST FOR ABOUT 5 TO 10 HOURS. MAXIMUM WIND
GUSTS OF 80 TO 90 MPH ARE POSSIBLE IN EAST-CENTRAL LOUISIANA
AND SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI.

DO NOT VENTURE OUTDOORS ONCE TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ONSET
__________________

[JHB]

18. Just the sort of thing that should get your attention...

...if you're not too busy flitting off to California for some birthday cake.

[ray of light]

26. thank you!

I've added your link (and points) to my discussion with these 'freepers'.

[deadparrot]

23. I don't blame the idiot for the hurricane.

But the severity of this storm was predicted almost a full day in advance. That was more than enough time for him to get his ass out of Crawford and back to Washington, and for him to get some semblance of a plan in order.

He cut hurricane relief funding to the area, even though experts, political residents, and politicians knew the risk and spoke out against it.

He strummed a fucking guitar. He played golf. He ate birthday cake with Sen. McCain. On the day of the disaster, he devoted a whopping 85 seconds to addressing the issue.

And now he's lunching and chatting it up with Alan Greenspan while rescue operations are being halted permanently.

THAT'S why I blame him.

[SoCalDem]

27. it's his lackadaisical approach to the aftermath

it's only poor people who don't vote for him, so what's the big deal?:sarcasm:

[butterfly77]

29. What does love or hate got to do with it!

He F--ked up all the resources if it was in Wyoming, Utah or Montana how quick do you think some help would be there? Damnmit!