What kind of board is this? I'm sick of seeing criminals

[Daphne08]

defended and I'm not talking about a few looters who've taken food and water.

Why are people denying the fact that at times like this, criminals will take advantage of the situation!

[Deja Q]

1. Agreed. The gamut of human reaction is a bit wider than

just nicking food and water for immediate survival.

Criminals on both sides of the levee too.

[KG]

2. another 'looter' rant.

how special. :eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

8. Yup

:eyes:

[etherealtruth]

29. Yep ...

Let those of us sitting in safety judge the actions of desperate people in desperate situations.

[LostinVA]

53. I'm allowed to "judge"

I didn't survive Katrina, but I did survive an extremely bad hurricane that left me without power for three weeks, water for two, left five feet of water in my house and ruined most of my stuff. I didn't get paid for a very long time. I wasn't the only one who lived through this. At least I didn't lose my home like many did. And, no one I saw there decided arming themselves and trying to break into hospitals was a good thing to do. There was looting in the town, bad enough that a curfew was set and NG ran armed patrols. The fear of looters was scary that the aftermath of the 'cane. Imagine living without power, water, little food, in summer with the heat and humidity, all communication gone... and having to worry that every voice you hear, every group of men laughing, could be someone trying to kill you, to take what little you have left. THESE are looters, these are people that some posters are defending. It's crazy. They have no right to terrorize folks already terrorized by the storm and it's aftermath. They are scum, thugs, criminals. And I guarantee they would gladly rake diapers and food from a store and sell them to someone, instead of freely giving them. What gets people through something like this is helping one another, plain human compassion, and looters are having the opposite effect.

So yeah, I have a right to judge, because the looters suck. And I'm talking about looters, what the word actually means.

[JuniperLea]

59. Of course looters suck!

No one is saying otherwise! THE POINT IS THIS: too much effort going to "shoot" looters when resources are so low! There are people dying for fuck's sake! THAT IS AN IMMEDIATE NEED!!! Bush doesn't understand the concept either! That is why we went into a war when there was NO IMMEDIATE NEED!!!

[mondo joe]

69. Are you willing to draw ANY line on which actions committed by the

desperate can be judged?

[Birthmark]

3. PERSPECTIVE

See if you can loot some.

[acmavm]

4. I'm sick of seeing those who are taking things necessary for survival

being lumped in with those who are stealing tv sets.

[LostinVA]

52. That's not what Daphne is saying

I've been reading her posts,a nd I agree with her. People talking things for survival aren't looters. That is NOT what "looting" mean. What she has been against for days are the looters.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

5. yes everyone here is defending criminals!

:sarcasm:
:eyes:

all sorts of people post all sorts of things here, it's just how it is.

[fishnfla]

6. The situation is frustrating. Its bringing out the worst in everyone

Anger has that capabilty

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

19. well, they STOPPED EVACUATING because vandals are now shooting

at helicopters, buses and evacuees.

[LostinVA]

54. That is NOT what she's saying

She is saying people matter. Looters are terrorizing people and taking what little they have left.

And, there's no call for a personal attack on Daphne08. She has a right to her opinion.

SCrew it. I'm putting this thread on ignore. I've never thought I'd see the day when so many progressives defended mob rule and glamorized thugs.

[KyndCulture]

9. ...

[jus_the_facts]

10. "times like this"...CREATE criminal mentality in desperate people....

....if you haven't walked a mile in their shoes...then don't have an opinion on how you'd act in the same situation.

[WCGreen]

11. I agree with you.....

But, given the magnitude of the disaster and the fading of the crucial period, 72 hours after the disaster occurs, maybe police could have focused more on saving and rescue than on the pillaging of stores covered by insurance...

I'm just sayin'...

Besides, how do you discern what is good looting and what deserves punishment while in the heat of the moment....

Street Justice?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Daphne08]

14. I'm fed up with it! These people just don't get the point, do they?

I'm out of here for a while til I can calm down.

[sniffa]

16. good

hopefuLLy, you don't get abandoned in a toxic disaster area... you might just react angriLy at your hopeLess situation. and god heLp you if you're bLack, cuz tv crews are gonna be fiLming you, and judging you from afar rather than heLping you.

[Karenina]

33. Racism always works in Amurikkka...

The *CM$M is guilty of sensationalizing their reports in such a way that a) they have contributed to the rapid deterioration and b) the latent white fear of "NIGRAS RUNNIN' WILD AND LOOSE IN THE STREETS" has overtaken common sense.

Win-win for *TPTB who are truly DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for this horror.
Trash NO and whip up fervor where shooting black folks on sight seems reasonable.

[Judi Lynn]

36. They were no doubt so disappointed when they learned Susan Smith

had lied about who took her car and rolled it into the lake, drowning her two little boys.

[1932]

60. Do you remember the artists rendering of the person she alleged

did that?

It was Spike Lee.

She described Spike Lee.

[ultraist]

41. Exactly!

What heyday for the racist M$M. Fuckers.

[greekspeak]

47. Thank you! This race baiting crap is making things even WORSE

It is time for the MSM and its ilk to stop this deliberate attempt to instill fear in all Americans about race. My GOD people, living HUMAN BEINGS are dying and they are exploiting the situation for ratings and propeganda purposes.

Katrina is NOT a black/white, gay/straight, Christian/athiest, republican/democrat, male/female issure. It is a heinous natural disaster. While people are dying in mass numbers, living in squalor most of us cannot imagine, dealing with unfathomable grief what is the media doing? Turning the camera on dark skinned looters. What is the leader of the free world doing? Setting up a photo-op for Friday, while skipping around the country like a merry mad cap, making his debut with a pet goat look like a sane reaction.

To the original poster...I certainly hope that you never have had to, nor ever will, go through something like this. If you do, the last thing you will probably be thinking about is that guy carting the ruined TV set out of the Wal Mart. What matters is that human beings are suffering, and are so full of pain and despiration that they are not behaving rationally.

[JuniperLea]

22. Since you are in the minority, perhaps it's you that needs to get a point?

You seem more interested in saving material goods than saving human life. Get a mirror, quick.

[LostinVA]

56. What is with this nastiness on DU about this?

She is saying people ARE more important than material goods -- looters are creating lawlessness down there. YOU are the one that doesn't get it.

And, I have been in an extremely similar situation, and people do NOT act like that. Criminals act like that. People trying to survive are too busy to become looters.

[sniffa]

58. i thought you were putting this thread on ignore

you're a hero, and daphne is brave.

[JuniperLea]

63. There is not much that can be done about criminals

when the real need is saving human life. There are not enough resources to go around and they should be concentrating on saving life. It's called Marshall Law people. Get used to it.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alarimer]

15. Oh that's a good answer

Let's just shoot everybody that isn't doing what we think they are supposed to. :sarcasm:
How fucking judgmental.

[JuniperLea]

17. Oh good God!

This is sure bringing out the worst in people! Even people here!

Disgusting lack of priorities I say. Shoot 'em? I'm sure your buddy The Shrubbery is behind you 110% there, kiddo.

I'm through with this board for the day. Too many sickos with no sense of human kindness and priorities for the sick and dying.

I'm going to go hurl now. Thanks heaps.

[jus_the_facts]

20. only the materialistic minded would give a flyin' fuck thru a flamin'

...hoola hoop about that at this point...THINGS are just THINGS...those PEOLE are in a "Lord of the Flies" mentality in their desperation...they are dying and nobody really gives a fuck about them except that they're STEALING....Jesus Christ on the half shell...the self righteous indignation defending STUFF instead of people is sickening.

[JuniperLea]

26. You nailed it

Well said.

[jus_the_facts]

42. Well I'm living it up here in Northeast Louisiana...the refugees here...

...are bein' taken care of to the best of our area's capabilities...I'm sure when some who've been well enough off for the time being in hotels will revert to some of the same desperate tendencies when the system here fails to be able to give the support needed to give them the basic necessities to survive...we're in uncharted territory and I'm convinced this is just the beginning of what's to befall our entire country because the funds aren't there to rectify this for a very long time...and we *humans* will fall back on our animalistic nature's regardless of any semblence of *civilization*...untill you have to walk or swim in their shoes or bare feet for that matter...then in my humble opinion...nobody should be making assumptions on how anyone else should be acting.

[JuniperLea]

55. Again, very well said!

My boyfriend, howardx on DU, said the same thing last night... almost verbatim. Civilization as we know it is but a thin veneer... strip that off and there is no way to know how people will react. We can assume NOTHING!

[annabanana]

67. thank you.... people should be as good as they can...

and should cut some slack for the suffering

[SmokingJacket]

34. Nobody should be shot for stealing.

Sorry, an iPod is not worth a human life, I don't care whose life.

And I'm sickened by the idea.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackieO]

38. Who should be shot?

What are you talking about?

[WEagle]

44. "Those people should just be shot."

are 'we' also calling for the gasoline price gougers, the oil company CEOs etc. to be shot?
:sarcasm:

[bluestateguy]

46. I am in favor of the death penalty for white collar coporate crime

I always have been.

[WEagle]

49. at least that is consistant

though I **strongly** disagree

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

21. and NONE of that will happen since vandalism escalated PREDICATABLY

into shooting at helicopters, buses,relief efforts and evacuees.

[Wickerman]

18. Its my sincere hope that when Bush*'s friends start their looting

(which in a fell swoop will make all the non-working TV set boosts look even more rediculous (sic) than they already are) folks are as up in arms and as indignant as these countless threads I have seen condemning looters of all stripes and of late condemning those who have some empathy for them.

peace, and may all of us be well and not ever be placed in a situation where we have to face the loot or no decision.

[KittyWampus]

28. noone... not ONE person has condemned looters of all stripes. rather

some DU'ers seem intent on apologising for vandalism from the get go even though it PREDICTABLY would escalate into increasing violence.

THEY STOPPED EVACUATING BECAUSE OF GUNFIRE ON EVACUEES AND TRANSPORT VEHICLES.

[tjdee]

32. This is not the time. Honestly, it's not the time.

Obviously people who have become violent present a problem.

Stealing a gun and shooting it is different than stealing a television. DUHHHHH.

And I can guarantee you that some of these people had guns BEFORE the hurricane.

[Wickerman]

61. I beg to differ

from my vantage point I have seen several posts in which looters of all stripes and am amazed at the amount of energy wasted by DU on the discussion of this topic.

And, I offer that shooting at helicopters is a much different animal than looting, but I assume you know that.

[JuniperLea]

65. Isn't that a rumor?

Or do you have facts to back that up?

I'm sure there are a lot of people there who are disgusted with the lack of help and hope. People do weird things in a situation like that. Adding to the death toll by shooting looters is asinine. Things might simmer down if there were a sense of someone actually caring!

[Career Prole]

35. The shrubbite looting's been ongoing.

I mentioned a couple of days ago the fact that Tiffany's raked in an extra $7 million dollars last quarter off a tax break given them under the "American Jobs Act of 2004". Tiffany's!

Apparently if you wear a nice suit and contribute to the proper politician you may loot at will. No need for a gun because permission is granted.

[ultraist]

77. Bush and his cronies are already looting our country and Iraq.

The poverty rate has increased, the income gap has increased, median income is stagnant all while the rich are getting richer.

USCB Aug 2005 Report on Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage: http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf

[ColonelTom]

23. lives > material possessions

Sure, criminals will take advantage of the situation, and that's bad. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the fact that our federal government sat on its hands for too long while thousands are dehydrating, starving, and drowning. While some steps are being taken now, it's too little, too late for many people who needed the assistance days ago. As a result, the government has lost its legitimacy to many of those who are trapped in this disaster. It's going to have to earn it back by taking massive, visible steps to address the basic needs of those stranded in the city NOW.

[CTyankee]

40. Thank you, Colonel Tom!

Looting and banditry is a given when there is chaos of this magnitude. But you are right on about the government's responsibility to see to it that people can live decent lives. This disaster has revealed the other, underlying, huge disaster: people living in such abject poverty that they simply couldn't get out and many died. THAT is criminal!

[blondeatlast]

68. Had federal funds to municipalities not been drastically cut,

there would have been far more first responders available to keep control of this situation.

People are desperate, sick, and dying--I don't care if they streal a Lexus or a bag of bread at this point--both items have been rendered useless anyway.

Thanks for having a reasonable perspective, it's nice to know we are gaining some of you recently! Welcome to DU :toast:

[baldguy]

25. Looters should be shot.

Lets start with the oil company executives:

A woman walks past a sign displaying gas prices in San Francisco, California, August 31, 2005. To make more fuel available in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration said Wednesday it will waive certain air pollution regulations for gasoline and diesel in all 50 states. REUTERS/Kimberly White

&cap=A%20woman%20walks%20past%20a%20sign%20displaying%20gas%20prices%20in%20San%20Francisco,%20California,%20August%2031,%202005.%20To%20make%20more%20fuel%20available%20in%20the%20wake%20of%20Hurricane%20Katrina,%20the%20Bush%20administration%20said%20Wednesday%20it%20will%20waive%20certain%20air%20pollution%20regulations%20for%20gasoline%20and%20diesel%20in%20all%2050%20states.%20REUTERS/Kimberly%20White

[blondeatlast]

72. Let's just shoot them with DAy-Glo paint on their BB suits to make

them easily identifiable, then set them out on streetcorners in major thoroughfares.

Let the citizens express their opinions about looting publicly.

Shrub wanted to be a "uniter," he can't do much better than this!

[mike_c]

27. good lord-- the callousness of your remarks absolutely appalls me....

eom

[mattclearing]

30. Anyone who cares more about the looters than the suffering gets no love.

I'm tired of hearing about the looting. It is the absolute least of anyone's problems. Nobody else is going to airlift the electronics out of these stores.

I'm not condoning the looters' actions.

I'm just saying that if you're that concerned about the looting in the face of such a broad human tragedy, then your priorities need some serious adjusting.

[tjdee]

31. People are STARVING AND DYING. Who the fuck cares about a television!

I don't think you people get it.

This is not the time to boo hoo about ATM machines and televisions and whatever.

People have been without water and food for days. They DO NOT KNOW what is going on in the outside world. This is very much a "28 Days" scenario. Drug addicts are dealing with withdrawal. The criminal element didn't just disappear. I'm sure some of the gang members (and others) had guns BEFORE this.

LEAVE THE GUY WHO'S STEALING A TELEVISION ALONE FOR NOW.

Get the people out of there. Get them water. Deal with those who have stolen guns and ammo (because they are dangerous). And maybe, just maybe, guns and ammo should have been REMOVED from the area/protected better. Isn't there looting after many disasters like this?

Then we can fucking cry and boo hoo over the guy who stole a fucking iPod and jewelry.

[buddysmellgood]

39. They can't get any of that shit out of the city anyway. The food will all

spoil. We need to focus on the violent asses that are compromising the rescue effort.

[niallmac]

43. Does anyone have a problem sitting in comfort sipping coffee

and spouting forth about people who come from poverty now up to their necks in not just metaphorical republican crap but real crap and how they should be shot?
Feed the poor, fair distribution of wealth and education and HEALTH? Too boring, too yesterday. Shoot shoot shoot. War, police, guns, blow it up.
I know that the people who post so broadly about shooting other people because they are stealing stereos to take to nowhere...I know these accusers behaved much differently when they were neck deep in contaminated water with bodies floating by and a society that seems nowhere in sight. I know these self appointed moralists when crammed in a giant dome
without sewage facilities would be knitting sweaters that say "God How I Love Being Privileged." But some just aren't that brave I guess.
It's why I participate in this board...the vast majority of DUers seem fed up with that pompous non christian bellicose hypocritical selfish BS.

[sniffa]

50. ....

:applause:

[PowerToThePeople]

45. Divide and conquer.

I think there may be trouble ahead for DU. We need to get back in check. Had a heated discussion with my mother the other day about these types of issues. You can not condemn everyone on the actions of a select few. Who gives a rip about the ones taking TVs and shit that won't even be able to work anymore due to water damage. But those taking food, water, and other necessities NEED them to live. So, unless helicopters start dropping crates of supplies, there is nothing wrong with these people surviving however they must.

[H2O Man]

48. It might be of interest

to step back and view what is occuring in a strickly objective, sociological sense. I'm not suggesting you suspend your sense of right & wrong. Rather, look at it in a historical context: this is what always happens at the margins of a large society when some event -- be it natural or man-made -- eliminates all structure.

I have heard some people express doubt about if reports of "organized" gang activity are actually true. One can look at the margins of the Roman Empire at the times when the Germanic tribes were eliminating the structure, and the exact same bahaviors were found.

The debate on DU, as closely as I can tell, isn't so much about "is stealing okay?", as it is about what type of structure is needed now? Should "rescue efforts" concentrate on saving people or property? That seems a loaded question, I know, but the sad truth is that it is the question of the day. By this weekend, we will all see that the rift in values -- human versus property -- will become more pronounced.

[Wickerman]

64. excellent analysis

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

74. Thank you.

It is important that we find unity now, not divisions. It is a difficult time.

[annabanana]

71. right, as usual.

I am surprised to find that rift so evident here, however.

[H2O Man]

75. It is a difficult time.

And people are responding to strong emotions. Ben Franklin used to advise that "when passions drive, let reason hold the reins."

[mondo joe]

73. No, it's not the real question of the day. Looters don't impact PROPERTY,

they impact PEOPLE.

And as was reported yesterday there are armed looters, and there are armed people trying to protect their homes and families.

Does it sound like a recipe for success to you?

People have to be saved but they also have to be protected.

And Daphne's post is about the DEFENSE of looters of non-essentials. And that defense is there.

[LostinVA]

51. Daphne, you're 100% right

I can't understand it either. People taking food and water and medicine aren't looters. But the others? Come on! Many here don't understand it's also a safety issue -- law enforcement is having to protect PEOPLE against thugs. Thugs trying to break into hospitals, who have stolen firearms and wiped out pharmacies. It's crazy.

The definition of looting:

1. spoils or plunder taken by pillaging, as in war.
2. anything taken by dishonesty, force, stealth, etc.: a burglar's loot.
3. a collection of valued objects: The children shouted and laughed as they opened their Christmas loot.
4. Slang.money: You'll have a fine time spending all that loot.
5. act of looting or plundering: to take part in the loot of a conquered city.


Notice the definition is not talking about survival, like the people getting food, diapers, etc. It';s talking about the people who are raping and pillaging NO and it's people.

I've lived through sometimes almost as bad a as this, and have run face-0to-face with looters. It's scary, and one more stressor these people do NOT need.

Brave girl, Daphne.

[1932]

57. Who? Price gougers?

Politically connected construction companies?

[FreedomAngel82]

62. And who else is helping them huh?

Who else is giving them food? Water? Toliet paper? Give me a freakin break.

[mondo joe]

70. Do you even READ the posts? Did you see that the thread is NOT about

people taking food?

[sniffa]

76. this thread IS about tearing down our compassion

what wouLd you do if you were abandoned in such a situation?

peopLe keep cLaiming moraL high ground, and stating that in the same situation, they wouLd act a certain way... but truth is, you don't know how you'd react. i'd venture you might be angry; you might be scared; you might turn to cannibaLism; you might commit suicide.

i'm judging the peopLe who abandoned them more so.

and for the person who cLaimed on here, "hey, i survived a hurricane once, so i can judge" - :wtf:

[tazkcmo]

66. The real criminals

are the ones that dragged their feet in preparing for this disaster. Bush and his entire administration should have been energized and mobilized days ago, BEFORE the hurricane hit. The looting is disgusting but they aren't the only "criminals" and it's a distraction for the poor, no, INEPT response by Bush and FEMA. Gosh, if only there was some way to predict hurricanes so they could have been ready to move in with emergency aid such as drinking water, food, shelters, evacuation vehicles, etc.....

[Moderator]

78. Locking....

This is flamebait.