I am sick and FUCKING tired of all this "racism" talk.

[Redstone]

How many of the cops and firemen and National Guard troops down there do your think are black? Lots of them, that's how many.

And do you think the white ones are working any less hard because it's mostly black peoplestuck in the city? I doubt it.

And if you're talking about the "authorities," from the White Houe on down, just remember this: Those people are politicians, and they'd NEVER let their public image be sullied by anything that smacks of racism.

That cynicism doesn't forgive them for being soulless ratbags, but believe me, they are not letting people die because they're racist.

They're letting people die because they're incompetent. Pure and simple.

Enough of this crap. Please. It's foolish and disgraceful

Redstone

[Beaverhausen]

1. oh

:popcorn:

[liberalitch]

2. It has more to do with class....

it always has with this crew
Not saying the "good ol' boy factor" doesn't play in a little now

[slackmaster]

27. Yes, it's mainly rich vs. poor

:argh:

[Imagevision]

121. They're allowing people to die because these people are expendable to Bush

[etherealtruth]

89. I'm with you ...

Chimp and the evil cabal have NO concern for the poor in this country ... in that respect they are equal opportunity haters.

With that said, their policies have weakened the African American community, so (IMO) it ends up being racist.

[sonicx]

3. yeah right

<[Those people are politicians, and they'd NEVER let their public image be sullied by anything that smacks of racism.>]

Republicans have been doing it for decades.

[Redstone]

5. No. this is too public for ANY politician to get caught in.

Redstone

[sonicx]

10. Um, people have already caught on

CNN did a segment on how that race played into this tragedy. Most of the emailers said race was a factor.

[shraby]

37. MSNBC is joining in calling it racist too.

The media is on the pols asses.

[ezekiel333]

39. Really?

So I guess all availble resources are being brought in. I will sleep better now knowing that.

[ezekiel333]

65. Well Redstone?

We all are waiting for more words of wisdom. Please tell us! Oh BTW, where do you live? Just asking because I am wonder what color they sky is there.

[Redstone]

76. Like I said, it's because they're stupid.

Redstone

[sonicx]

79. Bush knows what he's doing

He did it on purpose.

[ezekiel333]

84. No

They are not stupid. Underestimation of the enemy is classic mistake in logic, guess again. And again you are from where?

[Just Me]

144. Bullshit. They are smart and calculative and heartless.

They are NOT stupid.

[txindy]

148. Not stupid. Evil. n/t

[billbuckhead]

If a 100 thousand white people were in this hell the Feds would get them

This is LIHOP ethnic cleansing.

[WCGreen]

53. Willie Horton.... Nuff Said.....

[Zhade]

71. Hey, why do you think they put people like Powell and Rice in power?

It's two-fold: show that they are "color-blind", BUT they also get a great way to play to the racist base if those individuals fuck up.

[xultar]

4. Some of the white ones are working less, Bush, Condi, FEMA, HS

that cover it?

[liberalitch]

7. they don't KNOW any of THOSE people

[drdtroit]

6. You betcha, just a bunch of good ole boys in the Big House.

[liberalitch]

12. Back slappin', hand pumpin'..... damn glad to meet ya.

[Stephanie]

8. they left the POOR to fend for themselves

we knew this on SUNDAY - there was NO assistance for those who had no car or money to get out of the city - you don't want to call it racism, call it what you will, just know it was WRONG

[peace4all]

66. that is correct

The poor were screwed as always.

[shance]

9. Your saying this has nothing to do with racism?

I'd say you're wrong Redstone.

I think others of a different color would say their experience would say you're wrong as well.

[goclark]

96. I am African American and I feel it is mainly@ Black

and poor.

There is surely a lot about politics mixed in there.
Notice how swiftly Bush rushed to hand out water in Texas with Jeb.


Let's see him give out water at the Super Dome and then we'll talk.

[belladonna]

11. I can agree that it's not necessarily about race

But it IS about class and the poor being fucked over once again, only this time it's being covered on national TV.

[Eloriel]

13. What is racism to you? Would you define it for us?

Cause I don't think you understand it, frankly -- but perhaps I'm wrong.

[Eloriel]

58. No response? Are you ignoring me or is the question too hard?

:evilgrin:

[LoZoccolo]

112. Why wouldn't you think he understands it? n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

14. Poverty and racism go hand in hand

And this regime has said fuck you to the poor over and over again. The poor (and coincidentally black) people in Florida were the ones targeted in the Florida 2000 election theft. The poor (and coincidentally black) people in Ohio were robbed this last time around. The poor (and coincidentally black) people in New Orleans are not garnering the same attention from this president as a dead white woman whose body kept moving for 14 years. Make your own conclusions. I'll grant you this: it certainly is foolish and disgraceful.

[Biased Liberal Media]

33. Exactly.

[Misunderestimator]

104. !

:thumbsup:

[roseBudd]

106. Median income for blacks in NO is 11,000, whites 20,000

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sonicx]

18. the factor of race is very easy to see in this tragedy

sorry you don't see it.

[-..__...]

52. Uhhhh....

Maybe the reason I don't see it is because it's not there.

What I do see is an issue of...

Incompetence.

Stupidity.

Unpreparedness.

Incompetence.

Lack of available resources (because the men and equipment are elsewhere).

Panic.

Incompetence.


Lets just say that for the sake of argument, that there are some racial factors that come into play?

That doesn't excuse or justify people here dismissing or explaining away even the most petty news stories as having racial undertones.

There's too much crying wolf here.

[sonicx]

61. Forget the news stories

I'm talking about the government response that is allowing people to die. No, i am not willing to blame it on simple incompetence (Bush is dumb, but he's not retarded). It is intentional negligence.

[-..__...]

113. Here's where the real problem lies.

After 9/11 we (meaning the American people), were so fearful of more terrorists attacks here that all other concerns that we forgot about what disasters could befall us.

Money was spent on the war in Iraq.

Money was spent on Homeland Security.

National Guard troops and equipment were sent overseas.

Nothing was done to prepare for non-terrorist related matters.

Once again, the asshats in the Oval Office got caught with their pants down, went into full panic mode and didn't know WTF to do.

They would have fucked it up one way or another if a similar disater happened in Beverly Hills.

Whatever the reasons for the cluster-fuck response in NOLA is, racism isn't one of them (at least to the shameful degree that many here claim it is).

As it relates to DU?

There is no reason for this sort of shit...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4559189

Or this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4538505#4539031

The tools that forment this kind of shit is what makes makes us all look bad.

[sonicx]

125. Again, bush isn't retarded

Stop letting him off the hook with "incompetence." He knows what he's doing and he's a racist. I don't care what other DUers are doing.

[-..__...]

146. "Letting him off the hook"?

Dude, he's about to be used as the fish bait on the hook.

If "incompetence" isn't good enough, well then the race angle isn't going to work either.

I don't care what other DUers are doing.

I thought what other DU'ers are doing (or saying), was the point of the OP's message?

:shrug:

[sonicx]

149. the OP cares about being up race, i don't.

other posters have mentioned that even some RWers see the race issue (Jack Cafferty for example).

<<If "incompetence" isn't good enough, well then the race angle isn't going to work either.>>

That doesn't make any sense.

[-..__...]

154. "That doesn't make any sense"

the OP cares about being up race, i don't.

You win... I lose.

Satisfied?

[Der Blaue Engel]

21. Can we save insults for the freeps and neocons during this disaster?

That would be refreshing. I happen to have a different opinion from yours, and I'm not going to call you a narrow minded fool.

[-..__...]

120. Okay. Sorry for the insults.

I just have a tendency to be abrasive sometimes (actually... i can be much, much worse).

:P

[Junkdrawer]

29. What a coincidence! Limbaugh said the same thing today...

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_090105/content/cutting_edge.guest.html

[-..__...]

73. And so it goes...

you have sheeple on both sides creating a controversy that isn't there.

What better way to fuel even even more dissent?

The "race baiters" here are no better than Limbaughs bile.

I make no apologies for my viewpoints on this WRT the lack of response (or reporting), to the NOLA crisis.

Our Government, president and response system fucked-up big time... plain and simple.

[sonicx]

77. Bush didn't fuck up. He did it on purpose.

Incompetence is not an acceptable excuse.

[-..__...]

137. The buck stops here.

See, that's the sort of opinion that makes DU and Democrats look bad.

Think about it?

No one said "Incompetence is not an acceptable excuse".

It's not an excuse at all; just an explanation... and one that is vulnerable.

Saying that Bush did it "on purpose" is pure conjecture and a bit over the top.

Tell me, which would sound more reasonable in a political debate:

"Bush did it on purpose"

Or

"Bush was incompetent to handle the situation".

You show me one serious Democratic candidate for Congress or President
that will say "Bush ignored New Orleans on purpose because there were poor blacks living there" and I'll eat cat shit out of a litter box with a knitting needle.

[sonicx]

145. Last time I checked, i'm not running for Congress or a media pundit

so who cares?

It may 'sound unreasonable,' but it's true, and you know it.

I'll keep telling the truth and looking bad, thank you.

[The Wielding Truth]

87. He physically makes me sick. His piggish ways make me RUSH to

throw up.How is he still on the air? Someone should put him down in NO right now and see if he can survive without food or water. Now scavengers don't need tv's or jewelry, but even he would go in an open store for nourishment.These people are fighting for their lives and some are druggies doing anything for a fix.Some are probably so down without rescue they don't care anymore. Yea LIMP had to have his drugs at one time.He needs to get into reality. Put Karl in there with him,too.

[Biased Liberal Media]

44. No need to start with your insults.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. No Redstone it's both.

They are indeed racist..from numbnuts "do they have blacks in Brazil?" Bush, to Haley Barbour..honorary member of the CCC formerly known as KKK...to the newscasters that called black people looters when FOOD was the only apparent thing in their hands (not commenting on the Wal Mart incident.)

The police and emergency workers are exhausted (those on the scene since Monday)

But the Republicans are indeed racist. Haley KNEW those people didn't have a means out of Miss...but to raise a Bob Barr quote that repubs love to shove up our ass...the fact that they are racist doesn't mean they don't regard some whites as n_______'s.

[theHandpuppet]

17. I think it might behoove you...

To do a little research on just how many of Bush's appointees and colleagues are associated with groups like the Southern Partisan. The rot starts at the top, not with the cops on the street.

[Cleita]

19. Well why don't we just put a lace tablecloth over the

elephant in the living room and a vase of flowers on top, then it shouldn't bother anyone.

[shance]

105. Very good Cleita.

You always come up with good posts and valid points.

[Just Me]

20. "Incompetence" simply is not an accurate characterization.

I have been in a major flood, a major hurricane and a major earthquake. Assistance was mobilized IMMEDIATELY.

The danger of this happening in NO and surrounding areas has been on the radar for decades.

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for delay or hesitation. There was most certainly a DECISION to to "wait and see" rather than mobilize and deploy. And it is blatantly clear WHO HAS BEEN LEFT BEHIND: the poor and the minorities.

[sonicx]

24. i agree. several countries have offered help and Bush has dragged his...

feet in accepting it. that's not incompetence, he just doesn't care about the people there.

[Don Claybrook]

22. Oh, Bush is certainly incompetent

But I'm certain he's also an elitist and a racist. After all, poor minorities vote for the other party. There's no way the state of Louisiana will elect a Democrat for a long time to come. He just flooded all of the "blue" out of the state. It's his lucky day--he hit the trifecta.

[Chovexani]

23. LOL, are you new here?

Willful blindness is foolish and disgraceful, kthnx.

[Chovexani]

25. BTW, you might want to turn MSNBC on right now

Keith Olbermann is busy spelling it out for you atm.

[slackmaster]

26. You're right Redstone

The real division between people who got out of NO and people who couldn't is economic, not racial. Rich and middle class people got out early.

Among poor people some got out, some tried and couldn't, some are incapable of getting themselves out.

Within all classes exist people who could have gotten out but foolishly chose to stay.

There are three kinds of people who are engaged in looting: Some who lost everything and inspite of their best preparations were left with nothing; some who failed to prepare; and some predators who are taking advantage of the situation to enrich themselves.

[SmokingJacket]

28. I'm not going to argue with you, but I disagree.

Would this happen in Grosse Pointe Michigan?

NO.

[JanMichael]

30. The fucking COUNTRY is RACIST, OK?

The FACT that cops and emergency workers may be Black too doesn't prevent the obvious poverty that most Blacks in most big cities and most of the country live under.

Jesus.

What about the photos calling white people taking food from a store "FINDING" and the Black guy "LOOTING" wtf is that?

What's this photo show?

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050901/480/msrc10109012315

And is this Apartied South Africa or Norway?

?x=380&y=282&sig=2TRbOc1KtsacJaEOOJ.59Q--

Edit: Wow the photo of the all white SWAT team driving throw the crowd of mostly Black folks won't link, what gives?

[Just Me]

56. Parts,...not all,...not the whole country.

I just HAVE to interject on your conviction of ALL of us.

Yes, rascism still exists. But, the whole country is not racist. Frankly, we are being melted into a classism that has been suffered by minorities,...including minorities like me, a woman.

Here's the thing, we "minorities" are actually the majority of the population.

Don't separate us by color. Please.

[JanMichael]

155. Wait up. The whole country IS Classist, period.

The racism, IMHO, is a very big part of it but as a so many have said in the past: When the poor Blacks and the poor Whites finally figure out who's wearing the boot that's kicking them both in the ass, and they aren't enemies but comrades, there will be hell to pay.

But back to the Racism issue, it's Institutional and everywhere and part of our socio-economic fabric.

However the Class issue is the biggest but in order to address the OP I hit on the intertwined equivalent Racism issue.

ok?

[kdmorris]

64. The picture of the white people "finding" is gone as well

But you can still pull up the picture of the black boy "looting". Luckily I saved the .jpg last night, so I have it to send around.

[bpilgrim]

114. here's a link ----------- ------------- --------------- > LINK

more...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=94&pos=1

peace

[Inland]

31. "Racism" would imply Bush gives them any thought at all.

The dying (let's just call them that until things improve) don't impinge on his conscious thought processes sufficiently for him to hate them.

He couldn't hate them any more than he hates Pluto or argon gas.

[Zhade]

82. So, he's racist (established in the past, see "blacks in Brazil?")...

...but not necessarily racist toward the people in NO, because he'd have to actually think about them to allow his racism to have an impact?

I can go with that theory.

[laureloak]

32. Agreed. Thank you for your post, Redstone. n/t

[Zuni]

34. They might be personally racist and bigoted

but I don't think they have told anyone to stand down and not rescue blacks because of it. I also think lack of planning and general incompetence at doing anything is more to blame

You are right---this is FAR too big and far too much in the public eye to be overtly racist. Bush is doing his best right now to repair the damage his inaction has caused until today, but it is too little, too late---and often poorly coordinated at the top

And no matter what Bush does, there are thousands and thousands of good people, on the ground at the scene working night and day to save as many people as possible. To claim they are not working hard enough is wrong. They have an enormous task at hand

[sonicx]

40. and why would they be incompetent?

Racism doesn't have to be overt. Simply dragging your feet, like Bush has done, gives the message loud and clear.

As i said above, many people already see the racial factors in the situation. CNN did a story on this.

[Zuni]

48. Bush wants to save the situation ASAP and that includes blacks

because any further death, suffering and mayhem will hurt him and the GOP really bad at the polls. This is the kind of shit people remember. Bush barely won in 2004 because some people remembered his big show after 9-11. If he fails here, this will be the image left in the publics mind---even among many Bush voters

He needs to save this rapidly deteroriating situation for his own personal best interest, and because his party depends on it

[sonicx]

54. ASAP?

You're kidding right? Have you paid attention to anything Bush has done in the last week?

[niallmac]

35. I respectfully disagree. n/t

[tlsmith1963]

36. I Disagree

It certainly seems like racism & classism to me. You can bet that if this had happened to rich white people, there would be a very different result. I'm sorry, but after reading about all the horrible things that have happened over there, I am not inclined to defend Bush. He cut the funding, & the Gulf region is dealing with the result. It's disgusting. I not only want Bush gone, I want all the neocons & the do-nothing Democratic Party leadership gone, too. I am sick of what my country has become.

Tammy

[Biased Liberal Media]

38. No, it's foolish to think it's just incompetence. You want to talk about

ignorance?? Chalking up the actions of our politicians to "incompetence" only is wrong.

It's about class, race, and status.

[ispeculate]

63. Youre on the right track here...

its about all of these things and when you get right down to it, it's about the value of lives. Some people value money more than lives. Especially if skin is darker. Stop lying to yourself red.

[beetbox]

41. It's a matter of what group of people are in the position

of suffering and dying in these catastrophes. It is always the poor. Who are these poor people? They are primarily people of color.

Racism is an institutional disease and has been so internalized and deeply embedded in the fabric of our society. Usually it works in slow motion and isn't quite so stark as what we see in NOLA.

When the death toll is known it will be mostly blacks who perished. Why?

This horrific disaster in NOLA magnifies what is already in place.

One of the great African American communities in the world has been destroyed. 

Chris Floyd:
But as culpable, criminal and loathsome as the Bush Administration is, it is only the apotheosis of an overarching trend in American society that has been gathering force for decades: the destruction of the idea of a common good, a public sector whose benefits and responsibilities are shared by all, and directed by the consent of the governed. For more than 30 years, the corporate Right has waged a relentless and highly focused campaign against the common good, seeking to atomize individuals into isolated 'consumer units' whose political energies kept deliberately underinformed by the ubiquitous corporate media can be diverted into emotionalized 'hot button' issues (gay marriage, school prayer, intelligent design, flag burning, welfare queens, drugs, porn, abortion, teen sex, commie subversion, terrorist threats, etc., etc.) that never threaten Big Money's bottom line.

[scottxyz]

42. Then it's classism

Whatever it is - it's murder.

Day five after a major hurricane - 80,000 people trapped on roofs and overpasses - and NO AIRDROPS OF WATER AND SANDWICHES from their government.

I don't know what the fucking reason behind Bush's and Chertoff's foot-dragging is - but the motives behind murder don't matter.

[liberalitch]

108. NO question.... Kill, kill, kill, kill the poor

[seabeyond]

43. i dont think they are saying people helping are racist, but..... that

new olrleans wasnt helped, and not helped fast enough cause it was poor black. not the people there helping were racists. no one is saying that. i saw white rescue swimmers, so grab onto anyone, and help all and no racism, that was a beautiful picture.

but lootin and black. did you see the two pictures, white the found stuff, black they loot. that shit. and why there isnt a faster effort in rescuing these people

[RBHam]

45. Are you joking?

Watch your TV - 90 percent of the refugees left behind are poor and black.

Even Right Winger from Hell Jack Cafferty commented on this "elephant in the room"...

My God. Get a clue.

[RBHam]

46. Look at 4th place in Conservative Idiots.

Racism is institutional in the USA.

[incapsulated]

47. So you honestly believe...

That there would be this hysteria about "looting" and "lawlessness" to the point of halting buses and rescue crews "for their safety" as old people and children literally die in the streets if they weren't black?

[Jon8503]

49. Bull Shit -- This is racism and it is also give a dam about the poor

What the hell do you have to see to get your eyes open. Do you honestly think this situation would have gotten to the extent it is if this was Bush's voters or one of our rich zip codes. You know the one the senate is going to vote on next week for the Estate Tax which is one trillion dollars. They just might have had some help a little sooner.

[philosophie_en_rose]

50. Really?

I think allegations of racism are the least of the worries.

And, can you really see Bush avoiding to help the citizens of Kennebunkport? If the Bush complex was under the sea level - or if a place like Liberty University - was under the sea level, would really think that the administration would have been as incompetent.

It's amazing how competency can be based on interest and how interest can be based upon racism.

I'm not at all talking about the goverment workers on the street --the police, etc. -- but the overall government (especially the feds) are disproportionately incompetent towards minorities.

[Bluerthanblue]

51. DENIAL

is killing poor people, of whom the VAST majority are black-
i'm FUCKING SICK OF RACISM and people pretending it doesn't exist-
as a poor white trash mother with a black son- i've not only seen it-
i've lived it- and i ache for the people of NO who are paying for this with their lives-

We agree on this point- it IS disgraceful.
America as it exists a a 'political entity' is an incredible disgrace.

[sniffa]

55. i have to disagree to an extent

the fact that they were Left to die is gLaring racism in my mind. i don't think i couLd not see that as anything other. :(

[zippy890]

57. sorry your tired of 'racism talk'

But I see 10s of 1000s of black people in New Orleans whose lives were devastated and have been abandoned with no food or water by a government that represents white people who have money.

This is racism in action, its ugly and disturbing, its our country under bush. Sorry you don't want to hear about it. But my sympathies are with the people in NO and the horror they are enduring.

[ecoflame]

59. It's absolutely about class and decidedly about racism (n/t)

n/t

[democracyindanger]

60. OK, so you don't understand institutional racism

Thanks for letting everybody know.

[donheld]

62. It's racism/classism pure and simple

You just have to face it. like it or not.

[Zhade]

67. You're sick and tired of people pointing it out?

Cry me a fucking river.

[bpilgrim]

80. that is the only argument the apologist got left "Don't bring it up"

and it will hurt our 'image' :puke:


peace

[Window]

68. And I am sick and FUCKING tired of all this racism!

It has EVERYTHING to do with race.

[BronxBoy]

69. Hey

F**K you. I usually have much respect for your posts. But you know, me and my wife were looking at all of the images on CNN tonight and the overwhelming majority of people who are being traumatized by this are Black. You hear me. BLACK!!!!!! People are dying in the fucking Superdome. Old Noble Black people and I get to hear about there is no racism involved in this situation.

Don't give me this no racism crap. I was also in NY for 911 and I know how white people in lower manhattan had money thrown at them by FEMA while asian shopkeepers and residents of the lower east side were basically told to eat shit.

If the majority of people in the images you are seeing were white, do you even think for a minute that people wouldn't have water. That old people would be left to die?????

Yeah they are incompetent. But they are also a bunch or fucking racists!!

Why do you need to see it as mutually exclusive?

[Zenlitened]

70. Just saw a montage of interviews on MSNBC...

... people sending videotaped messages to loved ones who may be watching.

A dozen or more, saying, "Everything is fine, we're okay."

And just one brown face in the whole crowd.

Now, I'm so white I practically shine like chrome in the sun. But I know damned well that there's a racial aspect to ALL of this, from the poverty that preceded the disaster to the suffering that's been permitted to persist in the aftermath.

It's all of a piece. There's no way to separate out race and class, economics and access to help in times of crisis. No way to divorce the present from the past.

We SHOULD be talking about race right now. And we should be ashamed of the gross, grotesque inequities that persist in our society to this very day. It's a disgrace.

[babylonsister]

72. I voiced that same opinion about this earlier today,

Redstone. They are thoroughly incompetent, but that could have been combined with a give-a-shit attitude because these poor, black people didn't risk a second thought.
When McCaffrey on CNN is of the same opinion, that's food for thought.
I am just so grateful for the level of outrage against the admin, and deservedly so. Perhaps now things will get done.

[sundog]

74. this country has a long legacy of oppression & genocide

i have a hard time believing right now anything much has changed...

just ask the natives... reservation is a candy coated name for concentration camp...

every effort will be made to "contain" whoever survives this disaster, and the declaration of martial law will be the first step toward that "goal"

the worst nightmare of the politicians & privileged has come true: the walls of the inner city have been broken... the inner city after all is not much more than a concentration camp of its own...

why the dragging of the feet?

"where will we put them? i don't know, so long as it's not my town" right?

this contributes to the paranoia of white america... fears of bands of renegade "looters" & "rapers" running rampant across the land (better get yer guns & defend merka)

looter in my books is code for the ugly of uglies: n******

right now, when i see or hear it, i have an idea where the person is coming from

eom

[mattclearing]

75. I hereby declare this thread lame, and flamebait, too.

The only thing foolish and disgraceful is your unwillingness to see this for what it is:

People Bush doesn't care about getting their just desserts.

"They didn't vote for me. Fuck 'em."

I bet I know the big joke around the White House today:

"Louisiana - A swing state no more."

[bpilgrim]

78. bwahahahaha "they'd NEVER let their public image be sullied by anything...

they'd NEVER let their public image be sullied by anything that smacks of racism.

only the very top could effectively delay aid.

you are living in a fantasy land if you actually believe the elite running the show care about the poor and colored and why don't they cause they know they don't have to.

we are turning down aid from around the world out the generosity of their hearts and they know we got it covered. :eyes:

peace

[Malikshah]

81. What's disgraceful is the way citizens of NO are being treated

67% are black

The imagery of white soldiers w/ weapons surrounding black refugees who've been deprived of food water and shelter is disgraceful

There's a gestalt in the region that cannot be ignored.

So get over yourself.

[Field Of Dreams]

83. This one is easy

The poor are always left behind. Many black people are poor. It has always been so in this country. Call it whatever you want.

[rodWA]

85. Bull Fucking Shit It's Not Racism

Brian Williams has fled the restless. I can count on one hand the number of white refugees I've seen that are still there.

[Biased Liberal Media]

90. That doesn't mean crap

Majority of the place is black and poor. It's not just a race issue, it's a status/class issue, as well.

If you deny that, then you're blind.

[Misunderestimator]

86. How "incompetent" do you think they'd be if a bunch of rich, white...

privileged people were sitting on their roofs pleeding for their lives? This is racist incompetence, and it started last weekend before the hurricane struck. Enough of this crap. Indeed.

[no name no slogan]

88. Those rescuers are also working class

I don't blame them one bit-- it's the damned-fool politicians who have fuX0r3d this one up-- particularly the Chimp-In-Chief in DC.

I find it very hard to believe that ANYBODY in this country is intentionally letting people die. Yes, they may be incompetent, ignorant morons, but they are NOT evil.

Jeebus, it's thinking like this that makes us no better than the Freepers. When we deny the basic humanity of our fellow woman/man, we're on a slippery slope that leads nowhere but down.

[sonicx]

91. Bush is letting people die right now...

Yes, he is evil. It is not incompetence.

[walldude]

92. They are not evil?

Uh.. I don't want to be "freeper like" but has your fucking head been in the sand for the last 5 years? These people have the blood of thousands of women and children on their hands. Evil is too kind a word for these bastards.

[no name no slogan]

98. Hitler was evil. Pol Pot was evil. Dubya is just an idiot.

Until you show me a documented plot to murder poor people in NOLA, I will reserve the "evil" label for those who truly deserve it.

We now return to your regularly scheduled circular firing squad :eyes:

[sonicx]

102. intentional negligence doesn't require a plan or document

[no name no slogan]

111. seriously, think about what you're saying

NOBODY, not even the most cold-hearted Freeper, intentionally leaves thousands of people to die.

Dubya's and the neoCons' problem is that they can't see past the end of their own noses. If it's not in their face, it doesn't affect them.

There was no intentional "cosnpiracy" to kill the residents of NOLA, REGARDLESS of how they vote (given the demographics, most of them probably don't even vote AT ALL). It's just gross incompetence and the lack of centralized, federal oversight over disaster recovery efforts. It is NOT some master plan for genocide.

Making irrational statements such as yours give our side absolutely no creedence with anybody outside of a small, paranoid cadré of conspiracy-theorist-whackjobs who spend their nights tracking black helicopters over their houses.

[sonicx]

117. who said anything about a conspiracy?

Negligence only requires one person to do nothing. That's what Bush is doing. He can do it without the help of anyone. Who cares if his intentions are "sinister." He's doing it.

[walldude]

141. A couple days ago I would have agreed

with you. But here we are 5 days later and people are starving. You trying to say this is pure incompetence? Bush managed to cut short a vacation to try to pass legislation for Terry Schiavo but he's hanging out at a baseball game after the hurricane? Condi is shoe shopping? This goes beyond negligence. Lemme put my tin foil hat on. :tinfoilhat: They have left these people to starve. These people are starting to get desperate. What do you think is going to happen when they drop food now? Can you say food riots? Martial Law is in effect. A news blackout is next. You are a DU'er with over a thousand posts, you telling me you think these guys are just incompetent? No there is something more going on here. Maybe this is a test. Remember what Bush said about hitting the trifecta? Maybe they have been waiting on a, to quote the PNAC, "Pearl Harbor type disaster" to test out a little martial law...

[drdtroit]

129. He de-funded the levee project

so he could play soldier boy in Iraq (vicariously of course through the deaths of others). Basically committed negligent homicide in NOLA. Negligent, not Incompetent.

[Misunderestimator]

109. No one is calling the rescuers racist. That would be idiotic.

And... I do deny the basic humanity of our current leaders... I truly do. I don't think that people who can casually murder tens of thousands of strangers in a foreign country for their own monetary profit and power are above letting thousands of their own citizens die because of their lack of regard for them. I truly don't.

[liberalpragmatist]

93. It's classism - maybe not intentional, but the result of indifference

New Orleans in 2/3 Black and 1/3 of the city lives in poverty. Those are the people that couldn't get out.

What were are seeing is disastrous incompetence and the effects of complacency.

I don't think its overt or intentional racism or classism. Instead it's a heady combination of general incompetence and earlier indifference to the possibility of a hurricane, coupled with ignorance about the ability of poor (mostly Black) people to escape such a catastrophe. Those in charge just assume people have cars or will find a way out without understanding that lots of people don't have the money, the resources, the transportation, or the connections to escape. And now that they're trapped, poor planning and lack of foresight has completely led to thousands - possibly tens of thousands - being dead.

[sonicx]

97. it's not incompetence!

how is it "incompetent" to reject aid from other countries handed to you on a silver platter?

intentional negligence!

[liberalpragmatist]

119. Fine, how about "criminal incompetence"

It's a debate over semantics. it is a thorough fuck-up and the arrogance of not admitting mistakes or correcting mistakes.

[Tinoire]

94. Lol. So sorry to inconvenience you with such an uncomfortable subject

This country is as racist as racist gets. You don't see it because from birth the media brainwashes Americans to either not notice or to excuse this.


Black people loot. White people find.

[G_j]

110. LOL

yes racism is more American than apple pie.

just one shining example: the prison industrial complex

[Bluebear]

95. I am sick and tired of all the racism.

Actually.

[Misunderestimator]

100. I am too!

Actually.

[rodWA]

103. Even If 67% of Residents Are Black

Then a full third of the refugees would be white. Right? You could see that shit from space. Sorry, I'm new here.

[Bluebear]

115. Not necessarily.

Even if 1/3 of the population is a certain race, that does not take into account areas where certain races might tend to live.

[ck4829]

99. I wanted to slap the guy (in another board) who said the rescuers were...

all white.

This is why Racism needs to be eradicated, because it still exists BTW, lives are hanging in the balance.

[hedgehog]

101. It's the kind of racism that kills people by ignoring them.

It didn't start with Katrina, either. Why did New Orleans have so many poor people? Could it have been that poor black people ar somehow held responsible for their poverty? Where was the concern for schools, for housing for health care for New Orleans' citizens last week? Depending on how all this plays out, this flood might be the best thing to ever happen for the people left behind when the hurricane hit.

[brentspeak]

107. This is DU -- some people here have whole decks of race cards

up their sleeves.

[democracyindanger]

122. This is DU--some people are racial minorities themselves

and can smell the stink of racism at levels you apparently could never hope to.

[brentspeak]

127. While others can smell

the undeniable scent of false accusations and self-righteousness.

[democracyindanger]

130. Congratulations.

You just expressed what wingnuts use to make claims of "liberal plantation mentality." Way to go.

[brentspeak]

134. I don't know what that means

So I'll just forget about it.

[democracyindanger]

143. Apparently

that works for you. So good luck.

[Miss Chybil]

116. It's not the color of their skin but the lack of green in their pockets

and the fact it's not an election year. Think about it. Bush was handing out water to hurricane victims in Florida before the election. He just did a fly over in NO. Where's he been all week? Where's Congress been all week? One vegetable in Florida seems to have been of more national importance than an entire city - an entire coastline of people. Bush and Congress flew right in to pass legislation for her. I don't get it.

This is probably not overt racism on their part. At least, they don't think they're being racist, but they are. Their actions betray them. Brown people are not that important to a lot of people in charge of things. That's why it's so easy for them to bomb them in other countries, or to not rush to help them when they're in need. If they had money, they wouldn't be so brown.

[boston bean]

118. You live in a dream world and you couldn't be more mistaken. nt

[Onlooker]

123. You're wrong

The Republican Party gained its majority by appealing to Southern racists. Reagan launched his first campaign in Philadelphia, MS, only known at the time for the murder of several civil rights activists. Racism is very much part of the Republican Party, and it's leaders have far more trouble getting motivated if it's people of color who need to be helped. There's plenty of evidence of their racism, such as the intent behind the Patriot Act, their massive cuts to programs that help the urban poor, their failures in Africa, their rabid anti-affirmative action stance, their support for churches that are historically racist, and so on. Bush et al. are racists.

[I Have A Dream]

124. I think that B* would have been more proactive in reference to...

dealing with the situation if the potential victims had been non-poor white people. (i.e., if it involved his base.) I don't know whether this is racism, but I think that it's more than incompetence.

Additionally, I think that he was relying on the media to cover for him as it always had in the past. This didn't happen this time.

[bertha katzenengel]

126. You're right, Redstone. It's bullshit. And I'll quote you and double it:

"They're letting people die because they're incompetent."
"They're letting people die because they're incompetent."

Evil, ignorant, incompetent fucks.

[Misunderestimator]

131. Evil, ignorant, incompetent racist fucks.

[bpilgrim]

140. yeah, they are incompetent in mind numbing stop-motion, over 5 days, sure

not a racist bone in their bodies, it's just the blacks and their 'VICTIM MENTALITY'... IT'S ALL IN THEIR HEADS!

and us bleeding heart libs are making it WORSE!

:eyes:

peace

[ezekiel333]

128. Hmmm...

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3949027&mesg_id=3949027>

[Autonomy]

132. I think you're wrong to say race has nothing to do with it

When the lack of federal assistance is largely based on reports of "gang violence and looting", the pictures of black people go a long way toward convincing the general public the the lack of government response is justified. Every time a Rush Limbaugh or someone blames the victims in this tragedy, he's using a racial subtext, and every knows what he means without his having to say it. The fact that this whole thing is too public is circumvented by this blaming of the victims, or by drawing inordinant attention to a small group of lawless individuals as an excuse not to help the overwhelming majority of law-abiding folks.

The reason why they are not helping is another discussion. Quick suggestion, tho: their incompetence is not mutually exclusive with their racism. BOTH are true.

[buff2]

133. I watch TV

What I have seen going on has been RACISM pure and simple. Why is it bu$h rushed back from Crawford to sign that bill about Terri Schivo? Why was SHE so damned important to all those repuke politicians? Why was HER life so important she had to be saved.....one white woman....and here we have thousands of blacks starving to death and dying of thirst.....old people,young people,babies?....I have cried on and off since this happened. It makes me sick seeing these people crying and begging for help and bu$h and his phucked up mis-administration taking their good ole time getting these people help. If that would have been thousands of Terri Schivos you can bet they would have all been taken care of.BTW.....I am white. And I am outraged. God bless and be with those people suffering so much. I wish I could be there to help them,but thanks to that phucking moron presidunce I can't afford the gas to go anywhere to help anyone. :grr:

[Bluebear]

135. If this was Houston's River Oaks area?

Please, every National Guard and Navy SEAL (kc: they rock!!) would have been there day before yesterday.

[alittlelark]

136. If ppl in my upper class white neighborhood were waving flags

on their roofs.......... guess what would have happened?

I understand what you are trying to say - but you need to re-evaluate.

[Teaser]

138. Who cares if your sick and tired of it?

I sure as hell don't.

[Bluerthanblue]

139. REDSTONE- go here, then see if you

can support your childlike innocence that helps you to believe there is no 'racism'-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2052496

i hate it with every ounce of my being- but you gotta call it what it is-

Denial is the most populated state in this fucked up union.

[iamjoy]

142. They Deserve It

Oh, the religious nuts say NOLA was a wicked city.

The non religious ones say the smart ones got out of NOLA before the storm, and if you were too stupid to evacuate, it is your own fault and why should the government bail you out now. These are people either born with a silver spoon in their mouth (born on third base & think they hit a triple so why does everyone think the game is so hard) or they had exceptional luck, skill or combination and clawed their way out of poverty so they now have no sympathy for anyone who can't do the same.

This is darwinism to many. God's will to others.

[txindy]

147. You are in denial and highly offensive.

Even Jack Cafferty, RW tool, has seen through the fog and calls it what it is. You might want to try doing the same.

"Enough of this crap. Please. It's foolish and disgraceful."

You're right, there. So knock it off.

[Prism]

150. I agree

*dons flame retardant suit*

The fact of the matter is New Orleans is a majority black area. I believe I read 68% as of the last census. As blacks tend to be disproportionately poor in this country, suffice to say that seeing so many black people suffering from Katrina is not about racism, but about demographics and geography. A devastating storm - or any disaster, really - will take its toll mostly on the impoverished.

Going back to a quote I used earlier, "Never assign to malice that which is best explained by incompetence."

I don't think people realize the scope of the devastation right now. An area the size of the state of Minnesota is in total ruins. This isn't like 9-11, where the damage was relatively localized. In New York, trucks and relief could be directed to small areas where it was needed. The roads were clear, and transportation wasn't an issue. Not only that, but hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people weren't immediately affected in such a horrific way. 9-11 was a cake-walk compared to this.

In this instance, there are no roads. All relief and aid must be air-lifted. Even boats are a problem with all of the debris and the varying depths of the floodwaters. All that air-traffic has to be controlled, scheduled, monitored. Landing places must be utilized in an orderly way.

I don't think the government was equipped to handle a disaster of this magnitude. It's sheer lack of planning, because we all certainly knew New Orleans was screwed if a Category 4 or 5 hit.

What we're seeing is the absolute incompetence of an ineffectual bureaucracy.

I think so many people fishing for racism is shameful. As if now is the perfect time to play these parlor games of identity politics.

I turn on the TV and see people who need as much help as we can possibly give them. Others turn on the TV and see black people. Who's the racist?

[sonicx]

153. you don't have to fish for it when it's smacking you over the head

You can keep denying the Elephant in the room if you want.

btw, ever think about why blacks are disproportionately poor?

[Vincardog]

151. Right it is not because they are Black i is because hey are poor

Social Darwinisms at work. If they had tried harder they would not be poor right? Get over it it is racism.

[MellowOne]

152. Maybe there's a bright side to all of this

Maybe America will really realize what Bush is really all about! I know many people who are angry with Bush because of the disaster.

[The Magistrate]

156. Locking

This thing has run its course to the end.