I am horrified by the rapes that are occurring in NOLA.

[Vektor]

Such an ugly horrific side of human nature, yet so common. It sickens me to my very core in ways that I cannot find the words to describe. I won't even try. Whenever there is lawlessness, upheaval, unrest, the rapes are an immediate side effect it seems, and that is horrifying.

It's used as a weapon of war, (as seen in Darfur) as a way to oppress and dehumanize women, (as seen worldwide, worse in areas where women are seen as second class citizens) and when disaster strikes, and police presence and law and order are diminished, it happens just because "it can."

Hearing about that poor girl who was raped by her "rescuer" during the Tsunami...and now hearing about bands of armed gangs preying upon the defenseless victims of this hurricane in this most grotesque and unthinkable way, it fills me with a sickness and a blinding rage that scares me. It makes me think about vigilantism and cruel retribution.

(Which is horrible.)

This is a horror that every woman lives in fear of and one in three suffer. Or perhaps more accurately, that's how many cases are reported.

For just one day, I'd like to NOT see rape on the news, in the hospital I work at, or as entertainment in movies and on TV.

For one day, I'd like to see it NOT happen. To anyone.

For starters.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Amen.

:-(

[fleabert]

2. Amen.

[Qibing Zero]

3. Yes... there are just so few words that explain the rage I have toward it.

Then you see murderers and rapists that get less time in jail than drug addicts and you wonder just where the world has gone wrong.

[Vektor]

4. I feel the same way...

And though I do have my reservations about the death penalty, there is a large part of me that can't help but want to see sex offenders put to death. I know this is an ugly, base reaction, but I can't help it. I have spent my entire life hearing about how unsafe the world really is for women, and it makes it difficult to ever feel truly safe and happy always knowing that you are vulnerable because of your gender.

It's no way to live.

[Qibing Zero]

24. That's a big moral problem for me as well.

I strongly feel that if it were my loved one, I would probably take the law into my own hands. I can't help that feeling, despite what my morality tells me.

[Vektor]

29. Agreed.

I'd be tempted to do the same.

[DanCa]

5. I can understand looting but this never (nt)

[bpilgrim]

6. i'm HORRIFIED by the people STARVING TO DEATH on teeVee

across multiple states, men and women, young and old, sick or able :puke:

the relatively few crimes being reported and rumored during this horror is really quite amazing to me.

why is our GOV leaving these people to DIE...


more...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=4

A despondent Nureka Jacobs of Louisiana and five children were turned away from the Astrodome on Wednesday, told it's open to bused-in refugees only.
...

"We have nowhere to go, nowhere to sleep," fumed Rhonda Calderon of New Orleans, still crammed in a Nissan Maxima with seven other people after a 14-hour drive. "We came to Houston seeking shelter."

:cry:

peace

[Vektor]

10. It's all just awful...

The violence, the starvation, the disease...

And the lack of aid.

[progressivebydesign]

7. I am deeply troubled by this..

This is why it is so important to restore law and order there. I know that many people here have been defending the lawlessness there because they feel that people are desperate for food, etc. But.. unfortunately it escalates. WHY is it the women are hunted when law goes out the window?

[Vektor]

11. I have always wondered that myself.

And hated that it is true.

[alarimer]

8. under our veneer of civilization people are animals

Crises tend to bring that out.

[expatriate]

9. I once read in a book

that only the man's skin hides the grinning ape underneath.

Combine the usual descent of virtue in some humans in a disaster situation and people with severe mental disorders now without medication, and a city that had a high crime rate to begin with - please, just get those people evacuated! It's insane that there is anyone still left in the city at this point.

[Vektor]

14. It's just so sad...

that not only do these people have to worry about starvation, dehydration, disease, and drowning, but also, that fellow sufferers of this tragedy, members of their own community, might also do them bodily harm.

[Der Blaue Engel]

12. I'm not sure I believe the report of "armed gangs"

It may be true; I haven't seen who's reporting it. But it smacks of the ongoing demonization of the people stuck in NO to make it easier to blame them and write them off.

But I hear you. I can't take hearing about one more. Some days it makes me suicidal. (Note to mods: please do not delete this post. I am not threatening suicide for heaven's sake.)

[Vektor]

17. I did see a few accounts

of a particular group of young men who were armed and committing sexual assaults. By all means, not all the men were being blamed. There are more likely a few "bad apples", but it's still scary.

[Nikki Stone 1]

22. I do. I could see this exact same thing happening in Los Angeles

in the event of a bad earthquake. There are many gangs in the streets--very violent and well organized. I could see this easily happening.

[Tyranny_R_US]

13. Its called propaganda don't believe it

not everyone is toting weapons and raping.

[beam me up scottie]

18. No, YOU'RE spouting propaganda.

You think this is something new?

It was "invented" by bushco to cover their tracks?

I got news for you, bubba, women are ALWAYS the first victims.

Get over your agenda and open your eyes.

[Tyranny_R_US]

31. hmmm....

It is propaganda they are trying to paint all of the people stranded there as ruthless armed packs of wild "thugs" so they can save their own asses, they know they are in deep shit over letting these people just sit and die.

In the coming days you will see less stories about how this admin failed these people and more stories which will attempt to fuel anger and hate against the real victims.

(eom)

[Vektor]

36. Again, I never said "all."

I would never say that, and I don't think it. Nor did the news say that. they, and eyewitnesses, said there are some groups of people committing crimes. Most of the citizens trapped there are just helpless and stranded. Not criminals. We know that. It sickens me that ANY rapes could occur, anywhere. I don't think I am out of line by saying I feel it is tragic and horrible that this is happening.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Don't worry about it.

This is SOP for some posters.
NONE of the crimes actually happened.
It's the current meme.

[Tyranny_R_US]

47. whos meme scottie?

[beam me up scottie]

72. That'd be anybody who says this:"Its called propaganda don't believe it"

Unless you're god, which is the only way you can be sure that no crimes are being committed.

In which case, I'd like to apologize for my lack of belief in you and take back everything I've said my entire life.

[beam me up scottie]

37. Who is this "they" you keep going on about?

The op was very specific about the crime and the numbers.

Stop insulting us by trying to make this about politics.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

49. Oh, that happens too.

It certainly isn't as if the Bush admin hasn't raped the black community in their own special way.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

98. Horse shit.

Just because I spoke about the horrors of rape and many others agreed does NOT mean that ANY ONE is giving the admin. a free pass.

These acts of violence that I am talking about are yet another symptom of the Bush regime's neglect and incompetence in dealing with the hurricane. No one ever downplayed the suffering of the masses, the lack of food, the water. We are just talking about one particular thing.

Where the hell do you even get off suggesting that because someone is concerned about rape they are NOT concerned about the other issues. That's absurd.

[beam me up scottie]

100. It was only a matter of time before the bat signal went out

and they showed up.

EVERYTHING is about politics and conspiracy theories with some people.
If it's bad for the current theory, it's rejected.
Like the rapes.
Bad for the theory that all crimes are manufactured to cover for this administration's evil intentions.
Bad for the fantasy that all of the people in NO are innocent victims and there are no criminals among them.
Hurts the liberals, you know.
So they didn't happen.

It must be nice to have such a narrow world view.
No thinking necessary.
No gray areas.
Sympathy is only afforded to those who pre-qualify.

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

127. No you ARE blaming the victims..

By saying these rapes never occurred.


NEWS FLASH: The women and girls being raped are the victims. Not the rapists you are defending.

If you sincerely believe that my empathy toward the victims of this hurricane is not intact you are not playing with a full deck and cannot be reasoned with. Get real. I blamed ONLY the men committing these acts.

You are downplaying the suffering of these women by pretending this isn't happening.

It's sickening.

[stickdog]

115. Because it's like a broken record.

People typically post most about what they care most about.

But since my previous post was deleted, I guess it must somehow be insane to suggest such a thing.

[Vektor]

116. Oh woe is me!!

"My downplaying of the evils of rape is not appreciated by most of the civilized world!"

Get over yourself. You attempted to hijack this thread with an off topic rant. Sorry it wasn't well received.

[stickdog]

124. Yeah, I'm downplaying the evils of rape.

:eyes:

I'm also in favor of the complete nuclear destruction of our entire ecosystem. Kudos to you for exposing my transparent inhumanity for all to see!

[The Magistrate]

125. Actually, Sir

That is what you are you are doing.

The topic of this thread is concern for the victims of this crime. It is not ypur [personal belief that reports of the crime are propagandas, that are part of a widespresad plot to move public opinion to some nefarious end. Thread hijacking is a violation of the forum rules.

[stickdog]

137. You are mischaracterizing my views to the extreme.

And the topic of this thread isn't concern but outrage.

Comments like "capital punishment isn't good enough for those people" are allowed to be expressed, but concerns that, under the circumstances (you know, thousands of corpses littering the streets and all) such statements may be a tad misguided are not?

[Vektor]

145. And you are doing the same to me.

Outrage over rape is more than appropriate. Someone who DOESN'T feel outrage knowing that women are being raped might quite likely be a sex offender themselves, at worst, and horribly ignorant and misogynistic at best.

And this has nothing to do with, nor does it detract from concern over the other issues.

ONCE AGAIN.

Get off your high horse. You are creating drama when there needn't be any. You are way outside the scope of rationality with this nonsense.

[stickdog]

148. I'm not on any high horse. You are. I'm not questioning your

ethics or sincerity, just the SEEMING focus of your righteous anger.

In contrast, you are impugning both my motivations and my ethics simply because I dare to question your SEEMING focus.

[Vektor]

152. What do I smell? AH! it's MORE HORSE SHIT. Ok, you've bypassed irrational.

And are now successfully drowning in complete absurdity. Have all the cyclic arguments with yourself that you want. I'm quite over you and your disgusting defense of rape.
:hi:

[Vektor]

128. You did that, actually.

I didn't need to help at all.

[fleabert]

32. damn right. we are.

the first to be victimized and subjugated, the first to be abused when men in groups feel they have been marginalized- makes them feel strong to rape and torture women.

I has happened throughout history, and the US is not immune, obviously.

it is also very reasonable and absolutely true to say that EVERY man is not doing this, but it is stupid to think it isn't happening at all.

[Der Blaue Engel]

35. Oy. Again, who's saying they think it's not happening at all?

I think I should go to bed; I'm just getting cranky.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Post #13.

[fleabert]

44. perhaps I am cranky too.

It's a sore subject that I don't react rationally to sometimes. I think I jumped the gun a bit, towards the poster at least, not to the subject at hand.

:hug:

[Nikki Stone 1]

19. ABC had a young father who got to Houston from NO and he was talking

about all the rapes he saw leaving the city. This man was African American and his daughter had brain cancer. THe mother and daughter had been airlifted to a Houston hospital because of the daughter's cancer and condition.

I didn't get the impression he was lying.

[Vektor]

20. No, of course not everyone.

I should have clarified. There have been a few accounts of some of that, definitely not EVERYONE. There were a few stories on various news sites, not sensational propaganda like stories - but just reports of rapes on women and girls. And I do believe that is very possible. That happens even when there hasn't been a disaster. It's a very common crime that happens often.

[Nikki Stone 1]

15. It makes me want to go out and get firearms training

There will always be a certain percentage of men who use a natural diaster to rape. Can you imagine how awful it is to live through a horrific hurricane, get to safety and then be raped?

[Vektor]

26. I'd rather die.

I have always been sure of this.

[Nikki Stone 1]

56. Than be raped or than get firearms training?

?

[Vektor]

64. No, I would LOVE firearms training.

[silverojo]

16. Rape is even worse when people should be uniting

The trauma of a natural disaster is bad enough, but WTF is the point of raping someone? I mean, OK, maybe fights would break out over food and other necessities, but rape? Shooting at rescue vehicles?

Call me what you will, but IMHO the death penalty is too good for people who perpetrate such horrible crimes.

[Vektor]

27. I'm inclined to agree.

Such a sick and inexcusable crime.

[beam me up scottie]

21. Wow, a sane thread.

I knew it couldn't continue without one of the denial wizards showing up.

Still, nice to see that others recognize the plight of all of the victims.

Thanks for posting this.

[Vektor]

28. You're welcome.

It's been one of the most upsetting aspects of the whole disaster to me. I had to mention it, because it was really upsetting me. I'm glad to see others have realized the plight of these women at this vulnerable time.

[beam me up scottie]

34. By denying the crimes,

people are assaulting these women all over again.

People should know about this.

And it has nothing to do with race or class or politics.

How dare anyone try to politicize this?

[Der Blaue Engel]

33. Being skeptical isn't a reverse conspiracy

It doesn't mean I don't recognize the horror, either. I just wondered whether there was some exaggeration involved.

Geez.

[beam me up scottie]

40. Sorry !!! I wasn't referring to you!!! See post 13!

:blush:

[Vektor]

42. DBE -maybe I didn't state clearly

that I meant a particular few gangs, not most everyone. Some of the victims interviewed were saying that there had been rapes by some groups of young men. The news didn't "catapult the propaganda" so to speak - the actual victims talked about what they had seen, and the news just aired those accounts.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Yep..pretty disgusting ain't it?

You would think we didn't have from Friday night to Monday to set up something more viable and to insure the peace would be kept.

[applegrove]

25. Yes. Now finally the government is using psy-ops on the rare & true

criminal preditors. Hopefully they will be running scared tonight and ditching their guns and leaving the city.

[Vektor]

30. What are they doing applegrove?

I haven't heard about the psy-ops.

[The Magistrate]

41. What He Means, Ma'am

Is the announcement that armed troops are going in tomorrow, and the occassional patrols of S.W.A.T. teams on vehicles today. Such a show of force can often cow the sort of opportunistic fellows misbehaving currently, by showing them they are no where near the top of the vciolence chain anymore.

"There is always someone out there bigger and meaner than you."

[Vektor]

46. Ah thank you.

I do hope that the presence of those troops quells the urges of those that actually are victimizing others.

[applegrove]

50. And allows the rescuers to get back in control of their fears so they

will go and hang out of a helicopter going 40 miles an hour all day long and be able to rescue those thousands who need rescue.

[applegrove]

52. Thank you - you said it better than me. n/t

[applegrove]

48. Shoot to kill order is psy-ops.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

51. You cannot be serious.

Oddly enough, YES there are sickos out there who will always find the energy to harm others.

I cannot even fathom that you are not joking right now.

[shance]

55. Where are your sources Vector?

Why are you promoting something that there hasn't been proof of?

Perhaps it is happening, however, Im hearing about alot of things happening. Im particularly worried about the military forces and the lack of humanitarian forces like BASIC food and water.

Why are the residents of New Orleans being allowed to starve to death and die without water?

Im a female by the way.

[applegrove]

59. Do you think the average number of rapes in NO has gone up or

down.. now that the place has been lawless for a few days and all the predators stayed behind and some even drove in on Sunday night?

[shance]

62. Who are these predators you keep mentioning??

Are they the ones with the guns or the ones without the guns that are starving and just want to eat and have water?

[Vektor]

66. Ok you aren't even being rational.

Get real.

[Vektor]

75. The last thing I expected when I posted this

was that trolls would sink so low as to appear and deny that rape happens. YES I'm making it up. A rape would never occur in a disaster area in the throes of utter lawlessness.

:sarcasm:

[beam me up scottie]

81. This is why we fought so hard for the Feminists group.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY.

How fucking (excuse the language-old Marine Corps habit) pathetic that we cannot discuss this subject in the main forum of a supposedly progressive liberal internet political forum without some misogynist claiming the charges are manufactured for (how convenient) political reasons.

[applegrove]

I am not talking about people getting food & water from stores. Nobody is.

It is the psychological domination of the city by a few criminals (CNN said that some predators were driving in as the city was being evacuated on Sunday night). In the average night in NO.. how many people are murdered or are raped. All those predators stayed behind to exploit the situation too.

There may be 100. They may have been shooting to signal each other. They stopped the rescuers cold.

Thousands will die.

The psychological control of the city is the first thing that needs to be done.

[Vektor]

61. Here's one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/ Many others out there too. Look around.

Look - rape happens. Everywhere. It is hardly unthinkable that is a state of lawlessness it wouldn't happen there too. I'm astounded that you are skeptical that there wouldn't be predators out there preying on the vulnerable.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

69. So we are required to prove to YOUR satisfaction that rapes occurred?

Wow.

You've come a long way baby.

[Vektor]

70. Sick isn't it?

Wow.

[stickdog]

107. Yes, it's sick that thousands of people are DEAD because

our government has proven itself to be far less competent than a third world nation.

In every major city in this nation there are at least several horrific rapes occurring every day. But in how many of these cities are thousands upon thousands of people currently abandoned to soon die of thirst and hunger?

Considering the overall context of the NOLA disaster, don't you find the media's intense focus on the rumored misdeeds of a tiny percentage of the abandoned victims disconcerting? Sure, I'm always furious at any rapist, any time and anywhere. I'm not denying that rape occurs nor that there is PROBABLY a scary and horrific amount of lawlessness in NO right now.

But under the circumstances, isn't it misguided to FOCUS your anger on a tiny percentage of those who have been abandoned to fend for themselves in a submerged city?

[The Magistrate]

110. But You Have Been Denying It, Sir

It would be wisest to give this matter a rest, and cease attenmpting to hijack this thread.

I am, by the way, a confirmed insomniac.

[stickdog]

130. What?

Please explain further.

Somehow I'm "hijacking" this thread because I'm expressing the fact that I have a problem with the media's current focus on the rumored misdeeds of a small percentage of the folks our federal government abandoned to DIE in NOLA?

Please explain.

[Vektor]

131. Off topic, inflammatory, and totally out of line.

And you know it.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

143. He's accusing the op of choosing one crime to focus on over another.

Which is not only insulting but disingenuous.

But that's obvious to anyone who has read ALL of the posts instead of just cherry picking and skimming the ones they agreed with.

[stickdog]

151. I'm concerned about the MSM's focus and was simply relating

my concern for the purposes of discussion.

Furthermore, I directed my initial post to you, not the op.

[beam me up scottie]

158. Really ? Which post was that? So many have been deleted, I lost track.

[Vektor]

146. But not that bad, apparently.

Denying the plight of these rapists' victims probably doesn't meet with anyone's approval.

Even one rape is too many and no amount of outrage is ever enough.

[beam me up scottie]

150. Not only do they ration their sympathy,

they qualify their outrage as well.

How one dimensional.

I have houseplants that are more compassionate.

Dead ones.

[Vektor]

154. I suspect it's rooted...

in good old fashioned misogyny coupled with a possible propensity for violence against women. How else could one defend such sick acts?

[beam me up scottie]

164. I USED to think some just loved to play devil's advocate.

My dad does that and it never fails to infuriate me.

But you're right about the perversity of this particular argument.

I'm finding it hard to justify the intensity and single-mindedness of the objection to being outraged at rape.

[Vektor]

165. Exactly.

This goes beyond simple rabble rousing, and into something far more sinister. It seems I have flushed out some unsavory game. Maybe I should ask the mods to lock.

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

112. Get off it.

I'm focusing on the crime, not the "tiny percentage." Sorry buddy, ONE RAPE IS TOO FUCKING MANY.

And your defense of it is sickening.

[beam me up scottie]

118. Funny, we have plenty of sympathy and compassion for ALL of the victims.

How nice you are able to pick and choose which ones are deserving of yours.

And how sad.

[stickdog]

144. And plenty of outrage for all of the awful (assumed) perps, right?

I'm 100% with you on the compassion part.

[Vektor]

147. You are freaking everyone out.

No one defends rape quite this staunchly. It's frightening.

Yes it is happening, and YES the perps do deserve the worst possible punishment.

Anyone who is not a rapist pretty much gets that.

[stickdog]

153. Like being boiled alive or something?

I'd have to love rapists if I didn't embrace something like that. Right?

[Vektor]

156. Well, actually, yeah.

Either that, or have no real grasp of how horrifying the crime is.

[The Magistrate]

157. Rather Beside The Point Of Distress At The Occurance, Sir

The penalties for rape are not the topic set here....

[beam me up scottie]

155. Really ? Then why are you interrogating the op?

And questioning her "focus" ?

Ask a father whose daughter was raped if he is wrong to FOCUS on that crime and feel outraged.

See how long you keep your teeth.

[Vektor]

159. Or his other parts.

I find anyone who goes on for this long, aggressively defending the perverts a little shady.

Don't you?

[beam me up scottie]

161. I would have to question

their alleged "outrage" over the crime.

Remember, some of us are at fault if we "let" ourselves get raped.

You wouldn't BELIEVE how many times I've come up against that one.

[Vektor]

162. They aren't outraged, though.

The trolls we are getting seem to have a completely cavalier attitude about rape.

Which is scary.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

58. Coming forth to what?

A nice safe police station? A cozy hospital? THERE'S NOTHING LEFT.

Also, shame and fear keeps most women silent.

[shance]

60. Where is the water, where is the food, where is the shelter?

those are valid questions.

[Vektor]

63. Um, yes they are.

Did anyone say they were not?

[applegrove]

68. They are nowhere until the rescuers feel psychologically safe enough

to do their jobs properly. Why the psyops as the the military arrives tomorrow. To start the anxiety stirring amongst the rare predators. So they drop their guns.

So the rescues can start again.

How many people are stuck in building - perhaps destroyed rubble - that need to be found and rescued by dogs. They need water too. But first they need the rescuers. The rescuers need psychological control of the city. The calvary is 4 days late. If they are flying in tomorrow and didn't start with the psychological domination of the violence food chain right now "we are the biggest, meanest, assholes you have ever seen" .. I would scream. Psychology will go by word of mouth and doesn't need television or a flight to get there. It should be the first thing to arrive in any operation. It arrived on the night of DAY 4.

[shance]

74. Have you considered the pyschology of losing everything you have?

That's pretty huge AG.

[beam me up scottie]

85. And of course, it excuses rape, if indeed, rape did occur, which is

highly suspect considering the fact that there aren't LEGIONS of women coming forth and testifying in front of the cameras that, Yes, they were indeed raped and I'm POSITIVE that they would feel completely safe in making such public accusations considering the safe and secure position they find themselves in.

Does that about cover it?

[applegrove]

90. Yes - tis terrible. And I am the first to say if I had no insurance I

would have been tempted to stay with what little I owned and take care of it - especially if I didn't have a car.

Nobody is talking about the looters. They are fine. We make the distinction between looters or people looking for food & air mattresses (who by law are not breaking the law - cause there are statues). We are talking about the few predators, some of whom drove into town the night the evacuation order was issued, and planned to take advantage of the situation. The were predators before. They killed and raped people all the time. Now - perhaps as few as 25 - have psychologically stopped the rescue work and committed violent crime.

Day for and the army finally arrives. They don't have a week to show muscle to get psychological control of the predators. The psychological battle starts tonight where the Army & Swat teams announce they are coming and they are big, & mean, and they will shoot to kill, and as the moderator so beautifully put it: the army is now the biggest player on the violence food chain. Nobody is any match for them.

If we are very lucky - this psyops will work anxiety into the predators and turn them into mush and the rescue work will continue tomorrow. If we are lucky.

You put the psy-ops out first. That is a common a tool of the military as a gun. Why would they leave it at home tonight? It is free. It is effective. It is necessary. It is 4 days to late but that is better than the troops who it seems will be arriving in adequate numbers on day 5.

[beam me up scottie]

76. Off topic.

Get a grip.

[Qibing Zero]

78. See there's your first mistake.

Trying to believe logic has anything to do with rape.

[applegrove]

54. Yes! If he is an opportunistic predator. And a woman and a girl were

raped in the dome. Don't you think the danger would be even greater outside since there are already some bullet ridden bodies floating around?

[RagingInMiami]

95. "but no woman has come forth and said so"

What do you expect her to do, call a press conference? Call 911? I wonder what their response time will be?

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beausoir]

57. Do you have a link?

Where is this happening?

I know there were rampant rumors within the SuperDome about different "levels" of the structure. Supposedly, the higher up you went in the structure, the more heinous the crimes. Except...there was no evidence of that actually occurring.

I don't doubt the possibility...but I need a link..or something.

Why are we so quick to cast these poor people as criminals?

[beam me up scottie]

65. Some of these "poor people" ARE criminals.

You think they got saved by jesus overnight?

[Beausoir]

73. Do you have a link? ANY link?

I don't believe in Jesus, for what it's worth.

I need more information on these rapes. Where are they being reported?

[applegrove]

80. CNN reported that when the evacuation order came - criminal elements

from outside of the Gulf Coast were driving in. It was an opportunity for predators.

Nobody is including people looting anything in the mix. Nobody claims someone stealing water or food or an air mattress is stealing. There are laws that allow that. Nobody is claiming that people who stole TVs or DVDs or clothes are the problem. The problem is the psychological control of the city by people with guns and the violent crimes they are committing and the rescue work they have stopped.

[shance]

77. We have a few rich folks that are criminals too BMUS.

Why the immediate conviction on those who have just lost everything they had and are having a difficult enough time getting water and anything to eat.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Of course, it's all made up by the rich dudes!

Crime doesn't occur in NO, especially now that there is no law.

What were we thinking, of COURSE the criminals would behave and not take advantage of this opportunity.

You are exploiting this tragedy, knock it off.
Rape has nothing to do with your political agenda, stop using it.

I can't believe I have had to repeat that more than once tonight.

[Vektor]

92. I'm shocked too.

Astounded, really.

[Beausoir]

94. What are you talking about?

What political agenda?

I am just asking for more information. Please elaborate on how that is exploiting the tragedy.

[beam me up scottie]

103. My reply was to post 77.

Others are more than happy to use the misery and devastation in NO to promote their belief in MIHOP or LIHOP.

Look at GD tonight.

I was in a thread where a poster wanted to bet MONEY on whether or not any NO survivors will be shot and killed by NGsmen tomorrow.

Sounds like some people are having a little too much fun with this.

[Vektor]

67. Sure...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4571377&mesg_id=4572305

Check this post. You can also do a little research yourself.

[Beausoir]

79. Vektor..you are linking to this very same thread.

Did you intend to do that?

[Vektor]

82. Yes - click on the link, it takes you to an article

Sorry - I just went back to the source that I gave another poster.

[Beausoir]

86. Ok. I read your link...you are right.

"Police Chief Eddie Compass said he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.

“We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten,” Compass said."


Thank you for providing that information.

[Vektor]

91. Thank you.

There are many articles about this, some with eyewitness accounts. I am not going to look them all a up for everyone, but you get the picture.

[beam me up scottie]

97. You want a movie of the week?

Maybe some bloody clothes?
Signed affidavits?
:banghead:

[Beausoir]

99. Uhhh..no thanks. Really. I was just looking for some facts.

And I found them, thanks to Vektor.

Bloody clothes???? Very strange.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

87. I have posted them twice already.

Read the thread, and do a little research.

[mixedview]

89. for men, sex is a scarce resource, just like food, money or any other

Men rape men in prison every day.

When authority is lacking and order breaks down, the more agressive, dominant, bullies will always take as much as they could from the weaker individuals.

For the most part, rape has little to do with any specific dislike of women IMO, just like, for the most part, theft has little to do with any specific dislike of property owners.

[Vektor]

93. Good point.

Yes, prison rape is NOT ok either. I think all rape is about power aggression and degradation. Whether the victim is male or female.

[beam me up scottie]

Yes, except it has nothing to do with sex.

It has to do with power and domination.
You are exactly right about the bullies.

Sex is just a tool that's used, IMO, to shame the women who are victimized (and the men too, now that I think about it).

[Vektor]

102. Yes - I think that's accurate.

Sad, but accurate.

[Pallas180]

106. If you were a man who had not eaten in three days or had any water

would you be interested in or able or desirous of raping???

[beam me up scottie]

109. And you know for a fact they're not ?

Wow, another deity.
Two in one night.

[Vektor]

111. We've already dodged this sick, deceptive bullet.

And the person that said it originally got deleted.

In case you missed this sorry, disgusting attempt the first time, the answer is YES, apparently some folks are indeed capable of rape even when hungry and thirsty.

And rape has nothing to do with desire.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

126. A woman who knows what a man is thinking.

And a criminal one at that.
You must be psychic.
Or god.

[Vektor]

129. Riiight.

You're a woman AND you defend rape. What a neat combo.

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

160. We know that's not the case.

There are multiple eyewitness accounts.

PAY ATTENTION.

[incapsulated]

163. "rumor mongoring"

Sure, I consider eye-witness reports from the people who were trapped inside the Dome or the Center to be wild gossips. They have nothing better to do, right?

Please. Statistics alone would mean a certain amount of crime for so many thousands of people. Throw in total chaos, lack of authority and plenty of people with little to defend themselves and you are guaranteed it.

I am the first one to say that this has been overblown by the media and the authorities to give an excuse for their lack of action. It is no excuse to stop helping people either or to stay out of the city. I believe much of the hysteria around "lawlessness" is racist in nature. But I don't deny reality, bad things are happening in NOLA and the extremes of behavior, good and bad, are always most evident in a crisis.

[The Magistrate]

113. Ever Met Many Men?

[incapsulated]

133. I would imagine...

The type of scum who would rape women in this situation is also the type that would hit anyone over the head and take what provisions they needed.

Christ.

[Vektor]

134. Ahh...maybe they aren't so hungry after all.

And yes, that makes sense.

[mixedview]

138. no. but i'm a regular man. bullies are not, although they may appear

to be normal.

bullies delight in abusing others against their will, and will take any opportuntity to do so when authority is lacking. ex: bully in high school who bullies when teacher is not there; prison rapist who rapes when guards not looking; men who rape women.

this is the same thing as what is going on here - the only thing keeping the bullies behaved - regardless of age, class or race - is authority.

this is why the average man tends to be very pro-self defense, pro-gun rights, pro-military, pro-force. Because we grow up seeing bullies in action and experiencing bullying from day one - we know the only thing keeping them in line is authority/force.

[Vektor]

142. Very well said...

And yes, I have a staunch pro-gun rights side even though I'm a total lib.

[Vektor]

101. Thanks for participating, and let me clarify for those that aren't sure...

No, I NEVER meant to say that all the victims of Katrina are criminals, or that the lack of food, water, and shelter are not significant. I'm not sure how anyone got that impression but it seems a few did. I was bringing up a totally independent topic, not at the expense of any other concern.

Thanks, guys. I feel relieved that there are a lot of others out there who understand how frustrating and upsetting it is to watch this quagmire unfold...

:pals:

[beam me up scottie]

105. You are to be commended for posting this thread.

And for keeping it from getting locked in a disastrous flamewar.
I would never have been brave enough to broach this subject in GD.

Really outstanding, Vektor.
:applause:

[Vektor]

114. We are all pretty much in unity.

Only a few sickies have reared their ugly heads to pretend rape doesn't happen.

[REP]

120. I Understand and Agree

There is so much to be upset, disturbed and angered by. The miserable repsonse by the government. Those attacking people in the same miserable situation they are in, and those taking out their anger on the bodies of women. To name just a few.

If just one woman or one child was raped during this disaster, it would be an unspeakably vile thing.

[Vektor]

121. Thanks...

and that's really all I was trying to say. One tragedy does not undermine another. All of it is horrible, and all of it related.

[TreasonousBastard]

132. What most of us are seeing...

are just snippets of the reality down there. The tragedy is so enormous that we can't see the whole, but we see a few small pictures that illuminate and symbolize the whole.

In such a disaster, there are tales of hope and despair. Those that show the best and worst of our humanity.

Of course there are scum taking advantage of the situation, and the most horrific acts imaginable will take place, as they do in any holocaust. It would be as foolish to believe they don't happen as it would to believe every sordid rumor.

Maybe we would like to believe that when disaster strikes the world is full of heroes. Heroes there are, but the scum are still out there, too. When order breaks down, both find their way.

Perhaps the news of crime is simply indicative of just how bad things really are-- hope and heroes are lost in the sea of hunger and despair. Once again, the richest nation in history is a land of refugees in search of a meal and a roof.

[incapsulated]

135. Well said

When conditions are extreme and dire, much like a war, you will see the best and the worst of humanity. To ignore that is an insult to the victims. Just as to ignore the criminal neglect of the government that put them in this situation is an insult to their victims.

[Vektor]

136. Great post, and very true.

We will see heroes emerge from this tragedy just as we will see miscreants.

[BlueIris]

117. It's one of the most vile things I've heard come out of this mess.

Apart from all the death.

[Vektor]

119. Yes, it's all ugly.

The whole sordid thing.

[Vektor]

166. Mods, you may as well put a lock on this one.

The "rapist sympathizers" are freaking everyone out.

I was trying to draw attention to the plight of some of the hurricane's most unfortunate victims. I had no intention of creating a sounding board for misogynists.

They don't deserve the bandwidth.

[Moderator]

167. Locking

As requested