Did you hear what they said about the MPs coming in?

[Not_Giving_Up]

CNN said (a while ago) that MPs were being brought in with shoot to kill orders "to end the reign of terror".

[Child_Of_Isis]

1. Blacks will now be associated with terrorism.

Right up there with Muslims.

[Not_Giving_Up]

2. How long before they are called insurgents instead of looters?

Gotta change the language around, the people feel sympathy for the victims and not the government!

[AtomicKitten]

4. or terrorists

Oh, God. This isn't going to end well.

[Child_Of_Isis]

5. No more than three days. eom.

[wli]

3. smells like death squads, ethnic cleansing, etc. to me. n/t

[The Magistrate]

6. No One Will Be Shot, Sir

[wli]

7. A very reassuring thought. I hope beyond hope it's true. n/t

[RummyTheDummy]

8. We have one poster here who is borderline giddy at the prospect

Shooting at people who are shooting at rescure workers is one thing, shooting at unarmed people who are mobbing supply trucks desperate for food and water is another entirely. It's real easy to see how this could get out of hand really, really quickly. Or at least it's easy for anyone with half a brain.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I am not glad, but realize why they need to do this

by the way, here is the SOP for trucks, you come in, SECURE the area, then move in with trucks and distribute the goods. Or the mob scene will get troops to shoot and people trampled, I guess you want that.

[RummyTheDummy]

19. I want law and order

The same way you do. The difference is, you see it as a clean scenario that has no discernable drawbacks. I see it as a whole,something that could bring law and order, but also something that carries inherent risks that could make the situation even more volatile. I suppose it's up to our wonderful, effective, Johnny on the Spot govt. officials to make that call.

Now I guess is the part where you say I said something I didn't say.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Excuse me, I never said this was going to be tidy

I don't expect this to be tidy, for those troops SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE from zero hour.

As to Johny on the spot government, you have no idea how much I am fuming at every error and mistake made so far that has compounded this, including NOT sending in the armed troops when the winds stopped, aka zero hour.. that is in ANY plan anywhere in the world, except apparently FEMA's.

As to the situation more volatile, it is already to the breaking point, when you have gangs running around with AK-47s... and other weapons, IT IS ALREADY THERE... and unfortunately, they will have to do what they will need to do... will some people get killed? Probably and I do hope it is only the ones causing the trouble, and not the kid and grand ma... (pen values are a whole different matter by the way) but what is the alternative? What do you want them to do? What is your option? Tell us, because apparently what is SOP around the world in a disaster situation is not good enough for you... oh and droping aide from planes, though will alleviate some of the problem will also get these thugs what they need, some more goods to strong arm a hungry and battered population with. We are close to the Lord of the Flies situation here, so tell us...

Oh and for the record the number of thugs is very small, as usual... very small, if they reach 5% I will be amazed.

[RummyTheDummy]

23. What do I want?

For once in this completely FUBAR situation for someone to think something through -- thoroughly. If this is the best they can do then it's the best they can do. But pardon me if I question whether or not the orders these soldiers have been given have been thought through. The performance of all of the govt. officials involved this week has not been particularly encouraging.

[Qibing Zero]

28. It's really too bad this didn't happen days and days ago.

Now that it is this late, I fear more people are going to die - ones that may be deserving (if you can ever say that) and ones not.

[applegrove]

9. It is psychological. There is the odd criminal predator who have

stopped the rescue operation. This is just the US government psychologically getting control. The violence food chain is a changing and the Army units are now the big bad guys. The criminals will drop their guns and try to evade detection. People will not longer be victimized or not rescued.

This psychological control should have happened on day one.

[Qibing Zero]

30. Most of the people with TVs and computers probably don't know...

..about this shoot to kill deal. How do you expect the people inside the city to - especially those roaming the streets?!

[applegrove]

34. Rumours like than don't need an airport to fly. Trust me. The people

looting or searching for food or a way out or the odd predators hurting people and the rescue effort will have all heard by now. No telephone needed.

[Not_Giving_Up]

10. They just showed it again

It's actually "end the reign of terror and anarchy". Even better.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Ok maybe some of you have missed this

but some good folks who have nothing better to do have OPENED FIRE on ambulance personnel and rescue teams... so you want the Guard to go in and give them candy now?

Look folks every disaster, and I mean EVERY disaster around the world gets both the best and the worst in people. Some are amazingly good, some are not... and unfortunately every DISASTER PLAN includes the use of ARMED TROOPS, who have live ammo in the tube. Usually they go in ASAP, this has been over 100 hours, so exactly what do you want them to do? Yes if I sound like business as usual have worked disasters, and I have seen both the best and the worst, I also know the first order is to secure the area so the rescue teams can continue to work in relative safety. This is not ethnic cleansing, this is SOP for a disaster zone... anywhere in the world.

[Xtreme]

12. Shoot to kill, does not mean

Shoot anyone you feel like shooting, these guys are going in to fix the rampant violence. No matter what happens, if the thugs boil over we are looking at something unimaginable on a scope none of us could handle.

[Not_Giving_Up]

15. MPs, fresh from Iraq, likely with PTSD

Throw them in with the chaos in New Orleans, the outcome will not likely be pretty.

[applegrove]

18. NO will be nothing like Iraq. This shoot to kill is psychological warfare.

The right thing to do. Let the predators who are committing violent crime panic and drop their guns and get out of dodge. Then the rescues can start tomorrow asap.

This psychological control should have occurred on Monday. It is normal and predictable that things would get out of control and predators would take advantage of the situation. Completely foreseeable. Unconscionably not acted up. Until day 5.

[autorank]

14. I'm so jaded, I see the "looter/safety" issue as a variation of WMD

Why the hell weren't these people deployed on day 1?

Why did it take so long?

Are they going to shoot people "stealing" water?

What is the value of the "property" being protected?

I submit that there is very, very little of value left in NOLA.

Is this the real issue?

Will they arrest those who sought to break into hotels to get to higher ground because they thought more flooding was on the way?

Nah, it's just more Bush Bull Shit. They cover their stupidity, they think, by blaming it on some looters, many of whom need food.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. those are the questions that needed to be asked

why they were nto there on day one?

Quick answer, the units are in Iraq

[applegrove]

17. Oh - come on. I think the Pentagon & the WH know about the cycle

of escalating violence in a law-less situation. They should have been there on day one. To pretent they didn't know is a lie.

[autorank]

22. Sure they know about it. I think it is exaggerated without any doubt.

I was struck by the "myth making"...100 extremely violent thugs in the Super Dome...switch channels...someone in the Dome talking about the filth and suffering but no 100 violent thugs.

And since you're so smart, how is it going down: shoot all looters?

Shoot people taking diapers?

Shoot people taking water?

Shoot people taking medicine?

Shoot the seriously mentally ill who are delusional after three days without medicine?

It is so screwed up, I am positive that they will shoot lots of innocent people.

And, No I think the people in the White House are truly stupid, beyond any words any of us could come up with.

Now my original point was, they are such liars, it's hard to believe anything they say; not hard to believe that there is looting in this situation like there is on other disasters...but the WH is exploring territories of incompetence rarely seen on the planet.

And my fucking favorite, well, it's much better than the Tsunami response...oh, great, now we're measuring ourselves against Indonesia!

These are crimes. Everybody involved at an executive level should be investigated and charged with the Watergate crime: defrauding the US Government, meaning doing such a lousy job so poorly that you took your pay without earning it. It's their worst nightmare and the charge that sent away a bunch of Watergate folks.

[applegrove]

25. Oh I believe there are dangerous criminals and the "shoot to kill" order

is to get psychological control of the city. So rescue work can begin again in earnest.

If any band of criminals shoots at a hospital..they know they will be hunted down. So the violence food chain has changed one more time (as one moderator put it so eloquently) and the army are now the big, bad, violent dogs in the city. Criminals drop their guns and try and get away.

That is how psychological domination works. It should have happened on Monday. It is happening tonight. And nobody who is looting is going to be shot because some people (the ones who are taking rafts & water, & food are behaving lawfully) and nobody wants to shoot a looter. But they should be off the streets because it is dangerous. And tomorrow - once the military shows up in numbers finally..the rescue work can begin again and perhaps they will find 500 people trapped in attics and under second floor rubble.

Psychological domination is a simple military tool. Same as a humvee. And a good way to save lives by making the few violent criminals that there are..morph into little boys and move on (if they don't get arrested).

I wouldn't want the army to leave that tool at home..since it will work overnight to calm things down.

This is only about saving lives. It is not about shooting looters. It is about getting psychological control so the rescuers can get back out into the dangers they understand and do their jobs.

[autorank]

31. We don't disagree on the need to regain order quickly...it's too late

to do it cleanly and these people in charge are both stupid and the worst pack of liars ever.

Here's how fucked it is:

NOLA=Kosovo Bush Administration=The Serbs

[autorank]

26. And another thing, Landrieu and the Gov of LA are pathetic idiots...

...they are pulling the "race" card southern Democrats just can't resist. Remember Clinton stopping his campaign to attend the execution of a mentally retarded man...or the pics with the troopers, all white, in their stetsons. These are tried and true signals to southern whites that the Democrat "is down with the basic program." Well, Blanco was up there blabbing her stupid face about, "we're tough, and these troops are just back from Iraq" ... pathetic. Haley Barbour was very revealing, he used a phrase like we'll deal with this in an "extremely ruthless way" (sounds like the way the Government treats its citizens in this country).

Nothing will be the same in this country. People have seen the suffering lies, neglect and they'll ask am I next?

FEMA guy on live saying "it's under control" that people asking for food "really have it" and are just gripers not kidding...he's so fucking craxy...he needs to be in jail now. "We learned about the convention center today"(Thur). FUCKING LIAR

[RummyTheDummy]

27. Yeah, I can't wait to see the troops "fresh from Iraq"

Having a Falujah flashback or two carrying loaded automatic weapons on the streets of New Orleans. And am I the only one that noticed Landrieu's southern accent got a little bit thicker this week?

[autorank]

29. Maybe they'll identify with their fellow citizens. Hope so but

holy shit they're finished and then come back to a worse scene. How stupid are the people in charge? Dumb enough to do this!

[mogster]

21. It's Iraq II

The troops coming in from Iraq would not 'hesitate' to kill, if I'm to believe the translations into Norwegian.

*rabbit ears*

OK. What's happening to the US right now?

[autorank]

32. Two stolen elections a 'tranced-out' public religious zealotry and

an oppositoin party that looks like Quislings (nice huh)...dats it!

On edit: We dressed Mayhem up, in suits and put them in charge.

[Drum]

24. and the Big Easy goes Gitmo nt

[brentspeak]

33. Took 'em long enough to get down there

Who know how much chaos and death could've been prevented if law and order (in addition to food and water) had been in place a couple of days ago.

[applegrove]

35. Yup!

[no_hypocrisy]

36. Doug Niedermeyer taking a furlough from Faber College.

There are lots of guys with that mentality who are armed and authorized to use weapons in the military. Just give them permission and they will shoot to kill for almost any reason. Animal House was not necessarily hyperbole.