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After reading TPM's interview with Clark, I Cannot Support Clark!

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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:32 PM
Original message
After reading TPM's interview with Clark, I Cannot Support Clark!
This man will never get my vote because he will not repudiate Free Trade.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/oct0301.html#1001031244pm

See his non-answers on NAFTA.

Unless he supports the following I cannot support him:

Outlaw corporate outsourcing,
Eliminate all L-1 and H-1b visas,
Promote "hire them here" and "build it here" policies,
Renegotiate NAFTA and WTO supporting Fair Trade not Free Trade.

Anything less is unacceptable!
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. So Who DO You Support, Kucinich?
Are you a "no one but Kucinich" voter?

DTH
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Straight ahead, mhr
amen.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Then prepare for
4 more years of Bush.

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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Dean will handle this problem.
Clark will be his VP.

Nuff said.

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StephNW4Clark Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. But Dean said Clark was a Republican?
Surely he wouldn't be able to tolerate that. Just listening to his interviews lately clearly demonstrates he thinks Clark is unworthy of the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. I wonder
what Paul Wellstone would have said about Dean using that phrase. Just wondering.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Actually..
...I fully expect that he will. We're going to need something of at least the appearance of a "unity ticket" to overturn the Bush regime and all the damage that they have done, and there's no doubt that Clark can appeal to moderate Republicans and encourage them to cross over, and sell them on why they should...
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I'd agree
a Dean/Clark team sounds great.
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Dean was a leading governor supporting NAFTA, says strongly supports
http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/plugin/template/gephardt/92/2121

Howard Dean was a leading governor supporting NAFTA, and attended the initial White House ceremony with Canadian and Mexican leaders in 1993.


"I was a very strong supporter of NAFTA. I believe it's going to create jobs in the United States of America."



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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #60
72. This is a Problem Then
Ross Perot was right about that sucking sound south of the border.

Clinton was wrong on this one, big time.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Then So Be It
My life is already over so I have nothing left to loose.

I have been unemployed for 38 months and am a refugee from the telecom industry.

My last job and others like it are gone due to outsourcing and unlimited free trade.

If Clark cannot openly promote America first policies, I have no assurance that he will be any better than the Republicans on this issue.

On this issue, until something changes, a vote Clark is a vote for Bush and vice versa.

I can only support those that support my needs. So far that is Dennis Kucinich.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Oh come now
Your life is hardly over.

People lived thru the Great Depression when things were far worse than they are now.

Are you saying you can't do what they did?

When you reach the end of your rope...tie a knot in it and hang on.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. At My Age, My Economic Life is Effectively Over
There are not enough years left to recover from three years of unemployment, lost wages, and spent retirement.

No home,
No family,
No savings.

Just a candidate for the glue factory now!
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Oh rubbish
You have the web right in front of you.

Start a business...sell on ebay...something.

It's more than anyone in the dirty thirties had, and many of them were your age.

Enough with the pity-party.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. No Pity, Just Facts
I look at my devastated bank account and savings and know how long it took to earn the little money I had.

No amount of small business success will generate enough income to replace what was lost.

Just the facts maple!
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. life is more than money
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Maybe So, But One Cannot Live On Air and Water Alone
Our society revolves around money. If you do not participate in the economy you are excluded from life.

Without money, you cannot ineract socially - no movies, no vacations, no plays, no theater, no symphony, no car, no home, no community, etc.

One can play the poverty card all they want to. However, unless everyone is similarly poor then it means little because you are still excluded form the game.

Those are the hard truths!
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. If you're already living on air and water
you'll be long gone by the time of the election, so I wouldn't worry about who to support.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. Once Again
Flip, Glib posts like that make an *** out of you and me!
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Flamebait posts
reveal their authors to be so much more than ***es and deserve nothing more than biting sarcasm or downright rude replies. I have now read more than enough of the Clark bashing posts to recognize the style and intent of the post. As I said, if you are really down to air and water right now, worrying about who will take office over a year from now wouldn't be at the top of my list.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Your Reply Was the Rude Reply
I give as good as I get.

I am not a timid Democrat.

You want to dish dirt, then let's have it!
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. I thought that we were already dishing it
One more time...your post is flamebait and I am obliging you by giving the type of replies you are really seeking. If you were really seeking answers, then you would have asked a valid question.
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
77. My mother started 2 new careers at 64
making mid-six figures in real estate. Also does web design on the side...
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Your mom buys and sell houses/land?
That requires alot of capital. Or does she work for a contractor/realitor that specializes in expensive (read: high mark-up) homes?
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. You're misrepresenting Clark
You can't judge Clark's economic stance from the TPM because it was never part of the interview.

As for Clark's position, he supports the fairness doctrine and finding ways to stop free trade from taking jobs away.
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joycep Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. I am so sorry you have been out of work so long
I know it must be so discouraging. I do hope you find something soon. You will certainly be in my prayers.
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StephNW4Clark Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Where was he asked about NAFTA?
If he avoided the questions, that's a legitimate concern. But I didn't see any questions about trade or NAFTA in particular. Could you please point out that out?

And as for the Fairness doctrine, he does support it. If you click on the link below redirecting you to the NH Town Hall meeting, he's asked a question about it and responds there.

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=clark+town+hall
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Exactly
Nafta wasn't even asked, so how can you say he won't repudiate it?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Had His Chance Right Here
and totally dismissed an important part of the question.

Bob Rubin is a certified Free Trader. If Bob Rubin is his advisor, you know he is a free trader. Case Closed!

From the TPM Interview

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/oct0301.html#1001031244pm

TPM: Obviously, President Bush has been in office for more than two years, and a lot of Democrats, at least, think he's governed in a very ideological, very conservative way. A lot of the divisions among Democrats have been pushed aside because there's unity created by being in the opposition--sort of a beleaguered opposition, some would say. But those differences are still there in the Democratic party, and they would certainly come to the fore with another Democratic president. You have -- just the most obvious one -- in the '90s, Clinton who had a more New Democrat, pro-free trade, fiscal discipline message; the people in congress were more traditional Democrats, more leaning to the left. So, especially since your experience is more on the foreign policy side, which advisors are you listening to? Who are you gravitating towards in the context of the Democratic party?

CLARK: I read books and I listen to a lot of different people who talk to me. Laura Tyson's been a friend. She's helped me. On the policy team with me now are guys like Ron Klain. These are people who've got a lot of experience, they've seen a lot of issues go by. Gene Sperling, Bob Rubin have participated. Some of the former speechwriters have helped me.

But when you run it all through, it's really me. It's my views that have been shaped by a lifetime of public service, traveling across this country, putting a child through school, worried about how much--or how little--money I made, how to survive on very middle wages while moving every two or three years. The wife would come in and say, "Ah, the towels don't match the bathroom and you've got to buy new bathroom mats. And now what are we going to do for curtains? The curtain rods don't fit in this kind of the house." You know, all these expenses of moving on top of not making very much money. It's just a question of who you are.

I have strong views. I have strong feelings about what's right and what's wrong in the way of policy. I taught economics at West Point, I taught political philosophy. I worked in the South Bronx in 1966 for three or four weeks in the neighborhood youth corps as part of the Johnson administration's anti-poverty program. So I had seen urban poverty. I worked as a counselor at the Little Rock Boys' Club back in the late '50s, early '60s, ended my last staff member position at the Little Rock Boys' Club in 1965, meeting kids from not the most affluent backgrounds. You get a certain feeling for America. And that's the feeling for the America I know. That's the America I want to-you know, I want to give everyone in America equal opportunity, including those people that are like I grew up with.

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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Just because Robert Rubin is a Free Trader does not automatically
mean that Clark is as well. Assuming that Clark believes everything Rubin believes just because he mentioned him in an interview is unrealistic and misguided, at best.

Dean has Republicans on his campaign staff. Does that make him a Republican?

Colin Powell is obviously much more than an "advisor" to Bush. Does that mean Bush believes everything Powell does? Obviously not.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Not only Bob Rubin but Mickey Kantor who was the U.S. Trade Rep.
Bob Rubin told Dean he wouldn't be able to sell Wall Street on him because of his ideas on trade.

Mickey Kantor:
As a former secretary of commerce and U.S. trade representative, Mickey Kantor has been an unflagging advocate for the creation of new rules to serve a new global economy. While in office Kantor lead the negotiations that created the WTO, NAFTA, the Asian Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum and was involved in the initial steps towards the Free Trade Area of the Americas. Under his leadership, the U.S. completed 200 trade agreements.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. When Nader Said There Was Little Difference Between
the Democrats and Republicans, this was the issue he was discussing.

And specifically, he was aiming his criticism at the DLC democrats that embraced unlimited Free Trade over any protection of workers.

The Republicans love this policy as well because it enables their profit at any cost imperative.

Until the DLCers are removed from power, the Democrats will continue to be weak on this issue.

From this narrow perspective, Clark can be seen as an extension of the DLC, Free Trade agenda i.e. pro big business with lip service to workers.

All gloss and no real substance concerning the protection of Good American Jobs and American Workers!
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. Dean mentions Rubin here. Dean disagrees with Rubin.

HOWARD DEAN: No. What I said-- Well, I'll tell you what I said in a minute. But I'll follow my train of thought here, most briefly. Free trade has benefited Vermont a great deal. Here's the problem with free trade, and here's why I support fair trade, and why I want to change all our trade agreements to include human rights with trade, as Jimmy Carter included human rights with foreign policy. I still think NAFTA was a good thing. I think the president did the right thing. But the problem now is that, 10 years into NAFTA, here's what we've done. We have shipped a lot of our industrial capacity to other countries. And the ownership pattern, and the ratio of reward between capital and labor in those other countries is what it was 100 years ago in this country.

So the reason for NAFTA is not just trade. It's defense and foreign policy. That is, a middle class country where women fully participate in the economic and political decision making of that country is a country that doesn't harbor groups like Al-Qaeda, and it's a country that does not go to war. So that's in our intersect. That's why trade is really in our long term interest. What we've done so far in NAFTA is we've transferred industrial capacity, but we haven't transferred any of the elements that are needed to make a middle class. The truth is, the trade union movement in this country built America, not literally-- Well, they did do it literally with the Brooklyn Bridge and the Empire State Building, and things like that. But they built America because they allowed people who worked in factories and mines to become middle class people. And America was the strongest country on earth, and still is, because we have the largest middle class on earth, with democratic ideals. That is, working people in this country, by and large, feel that this is their country, and they have a piece of the pie, and it matters what they think.

Now, if you want trade to succeed, ultimately, we're going to have to create a climate in other countries that are beneficiaries of NAFTA where they can create a middle class with democratic ideals. That means we should not have any free trade agreements, and we should go back and tell the WTO that "you need also to include environmental standards and labor standards." Here's why. Today, if you run a factory in Iowa-- Let's suppose you spend a million dollars a year disposing of all the waste products that come out that are toxic. You can go to another country and dump all that stuff in the river and on the ground. So America, because we have environmental standards, and we're willing to trade, straight out, free trade, with countries that it's cheaper by a million dollars, before you even get to wages, to do business there, I think that's a big problem. We're essentially saying, "Our environmental laws are strict. It's cheaper for you to go into business someplace lese. Go ahead." That's the wrong thing to do.

The same with labor standards. I don't know why we should be shipping our jobs offshore when kids can work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for a small amount of wages. And isn't that what America fought against 100 years go? Wasn't that the victory of the trade union movement? So it seems to me that my position makes sense. We've gone through 10 years of free trade. We've gotten to a position where we now need to change our trade agreements.

HOWARD DEAN: What I would say is, we've gone the first mile. The first decade has worked, for exactly the reasons you say. I don't disagree with the premise of the free traders. I had this discussion with Bob Rubin, and I said, "Here's the problem. We need an emerging middle class in these countries, and we're not getting one. So now is the time to have labor and environmental standards attached to trade agreements." He said, "You're totally wrong. I can't disagree with you more." I said, "How would you address the problem?" I haven't heard back. You have to deal with this problem. It's a serious problem.

JOE KLEIN: What if they say no?

HOWARD DEAN: Then I'd say, "Fine, that's the end of free trade."

JOE KLEIN: What do you mean, that's the end of free trade? Then we slap tariffs on these countries?

HOWARD DEAN: Yes.

JOE KLEIN: So you'd be in favor of tariffs at that point.

HOWARD DEAN: If necessary. Look, Jimmy Carter did this in foreign policy. If you can't get people to observe human rights, and say that we're going to accept products from countries that have kids working no overtime, no time and a half, no reasonable safety precautions-- I don't think we ought to be buying those kinds of products in this country. We're enabling that to happen. I'm serious.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/forum_dean.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=46131&mesg_id=46131&page=
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Fine To A Point
But Dean does not address the loss of American jobs.

This is where I part company with Dean as well.

And this is the reason he is my second choice at this point in time.

If he would address an industrial policy that promotes American Wrokers he might be more appealing!

Once again, Clark does not even rate.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Dean: “I am tired of having…our best jobs…shifted elsewhere in the world”

While U.S. unemployment improved in June, Dean said it’s still at a nine-year high and ignores the underemployed, which he pegged at 6 percent.

“These are people who had $50,000 good jobs and now they are making $25,000 or $30,000, and they have two of them, in some cases,” Dean said. “I am tired of having an economy where our best jobs are shifted elsewhere in the world.’’

Dean fans made up a thick portion of the crowd, often turning Dean’s 25-minute stump speech into a rally of revival proportions with interrupted calls of “amen’’ and “yes, yes.’’

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=377&ArticleID=85948
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=11856&mesg_id=11856
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=124665&mesg_id=124665
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. Good Start, Now What is the Policy
I don't follow every word of all the candidates so I appreacite your pointing these statements out.

What I'd like to see now is his specific plan for addressing the issue.

At this point, I am a little tired of lip service or non lip service from the candidates.

However, in general, I like Dean with the exception of him being a bit too conservtiave for my tastes.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Speech: "More Jobs for America"
Text Prepared for Presentation by
Governor Howard Dean
July 30, 2003
Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 33
Des Moines, Iowa

Thank you very much. I am so proud to be in Des Moines with Plumbers and Steamfitters talking about the economy, about the concerns of working families and specifically about the issue I know is front and center for Iowans and Iowa’s union members: jobs.

A little over a month ago, I announced my candidacy for President and spoke of the journey I have taken this past year. I began with a campaign aiming to put health care and early investment in kids back on the national agenda.

But I soon came to realize something larger was on the minds of Americans. Meeting and talking to thousands of people in living rooms, union halls, and diners across this country, I’ve heard anger and dismay about the direction our leaders have taken. And a yearning for a crusade to take back our country and our party.

So this campaign has become a powerful movement to take our country back. With over 200,000 Americans already signed up, we’re building the greatest grassroots campaign of the modern era on mouse pads, shoe leather and hope.

This campaign is about more than one political office. It is about putting the power of the people to work for change. It is about giving people a reason to get involved, to care about their community, to get active, and out there, and vote!

I am running for President because it is time to rebuild the American community, reclaim our democratic heritage, and restore our country to its rightful place as a moral leader among the nations of the world.

And I am running for President because it’s time that we stood up to this President, to the Republican Party, to their radical conservative agenda, and forced them out of office.

Today, our nation is in crisis. At home, this crisis manifests itself in this President’s destruction of the idea of community. This President pushes forward an agenda that divides us and economic polices that beleaguer the middle class and raise their property taxes so income taxes may be cut for those who ran Enron.

Our country’s founders feared that those with economic power would one day try to seize political power. And under this administration, that fear is becoming a reality.

The very ideal of American Community is under the biggest assault in our history by the radical agenda of those in power and a flood of special interest money.

I am running for President because we must reverse the course this President and the Republican Party have charted on the economy over the past two and a half years. We have to stop the steady erosion of good jobs. We have to stop the unrelenting attacks on the hard-working men and women and change the policies that favor corporate interests and those who have accumulated wealth through investment and inheritance. And we have to deal with the basic needs of our country -- for universal health care, better education, and stronger homeland security.

But in order to change America, we are first going to have to change the Democratic Party, and make it stand for its principles once again. Too many Democrats in Washington have become so afraid of losing that they have remained silent, or only half-heartedly fought the very agenda that is destroying the democratic dream of America.

When America has been threatened with a radical conservative agenda in the past, it has been the working people and unions that rose up to resist and take the country back from the special interests. It is time to do that again.

The special interests will be raising $300 million to keep this President in office. They have enlisted an army of lobbyists.

My campaign is building an army of individuals dedicated to restoring America. We need to enlist two or three million people, contributing $10-20-100 dollars each. Can we do it? We are well on our way. But no one knows how to organize like organized labor, and we need your help! If we win, working people win and America wins.

We became a great country because we built a strong middle class. All Americans, not just union members, owe a debt of gratitude to the men and women of America’s labor movement. They grew the roots of our prosperity, and built a nation with blood, sweat, and toil.

They struggled together to pass on to their children and grandchildren an America that was better than the one they inherited. The men and women of the labor movement joined together because they knew that they could accomplish more in unity than they could by going it alone. And if we are going to change America for the better, we must find in ourselves again that same sense of community and common cause.

It was this sense of community that was the foundation of the middle class and America’s shared prosperity. When companies did better, wages rose, and benefits kept pace. A strong labor union movement made sure that the factory worker and the sales clerk saw their real incomes rise.

At the same time, we created institutions that shared risks. Companies were offered incentives to provide health and pension benefits to their workers. Social Security and Medicare were founded to make sure that no Americans would end their lives in poverty or lack medical care. We built a strong public education system, and offered training and advancement through loans, grants, and the G.I. Bill.

But then came the election of George W. Bush -- the most conservative President this nation has seen since the time of the Robber Barons of the nineteenth century. He came to office promising a “compassionate” Administration.

Instead he’s brought a government in which truth is the victim of expediency. Credibility is sacrificed for temporary advantage. And trust is an afterthought.

In his first inaugural address, President Bush promised to reform Social Security and Medicare, sparing our children the consequences of inaction. What has he done? Nothing!

He promised to “recover the momentum of our economy….” What has he done? Nothing!

He pledged to “reward the effort and enterprise of working Americans.” What has he done? Nothing!

He said he would “reclaim America’s schools.” What has he done? Created a unfunded burden on states and communities. What’s the result? Nothing!

He said he would confront economic problems now, “instead of passing them on to future generations.” What has he done? Worse than nothing!

In 30 short months, President Bush has broken every promise to America. He has created a crisis for American workers and brought financial disaster to more and more American families.

They are the victims of an unfair, misguided economic policy.

Listen to the Bush economic record.

Since this Administration took office, over 3.1 million jobs have been lost the worst job creation record in over 60 years.

Unemployment has reached 6.4% the highest in nine years.

Over 9.3 million Americans looking for work; over two million Americans are suffering long-term unemployment.

For the first time in seven years, workers’ wages are growing slower than inflation.

Month after month, employers have laid off more workers than they have hired, and month after month, the manufacturing power of American industry declines.

Never has a President talked so much about jobs while doing so much to destroy them.

As they say in Texas, the President is all hat and no cattle.

This is also the most anti-union administration in history.

Under cover of national security, he stripped 170,000 workers of collective bargaining rights.

While he’s pulling back on his original plan to privatize 850,000 government jobs, his objective remains the same.

He bailed out the airlines with $15 billion without one penny for 100,000 laid off workers.

He invoked Taft-Hartley against the longshore workers when they were locked out not striking, but locked out.

He reversed ergonomic standards.

He increased funds to investigate unions but slashed funding for enforcement of health and safety laws, child labor protection and violations of the minimum wage.

And when you talk to workers trying to join unions, and to union organizers, as I have, you find that the Bush appointees to the Labor Relations Board are making it almost impossible to join a union today.

I will reverse every one of these policies, and I will defend, support, and expand the rights of American unions to organize as an essential prerequisite to the prosperity of our nation.

All this past week, the President and his Cabinet members have been traveling the country touting the benefits of their economic program. Just today, Secretary Snow is in Minnesota on what the White House is calling their “Jobs and Growth Tour.”

I’ll tell you with the record they have on jobs and growth this must be one mighty short tour.

We cannot allow ourselves to simply pursue a defensive agenda. We have to do more than protect what’s already been won. We need to reform our labor laws to let workers join unions if they freely choose to sign a union card. We need card check legislation, so that unions can organize companies that have abused labor laws.

We need a fresh start, a new beginning with a new administration and a new economic plan -- a program that opens up opportunity, creates more good jobs, and saves the ones we have.

Let me say a few things about my approach to the economy.

First, I have a well-deserved reputation as a fiscal conservative. Vermont is the only state that does not require a balanced budget, but I balanced the budget every year of my 11 years as Governor. I’m a thrifty person, and I hate to waste and inefficiency. So I’m not afraid to say “no” to spending plans that don’t make sense.

I cut some taxes both income taxes and sales taxes -- but when we had good fiscal years, I set up a rainy day fund, and put money away against the hard times sure to come. The banks and investment houses liked Vermont’s fiscal situation so much that they raised our credit rating and reduced the cost of our borrowing.

I’m fond of saying that you really can’t trust Republicans with your money. That may seem like a funny notion, but the truth is that Republicans don’t seem to understand the simple notion that a government, like a family, must eventually live within its means. Since the days of President Reagan and the first President Bush, Republican administrations have run up more than $3 trillion in deficits. It took President Clinton without the support of a single Republican in Congress to adopt an economic program that brought the budget into balance and set the stage for the unprecedented expansion of the '90s.

But balancing the budget is not the be-all and end-all of an economic program. The central economic goal of a President must be to speak to the core concerns of America's workers and their families -- adequate health care, an excellent education, the assurance that every American who wants one has a decent job at a living wage, and the confidence that they will be secure in their retirement and be able to maintain a reasonable quality of life in their senior years.

This President has failed to address these core concerns. With an economic agenda that consists of little more than irresponsible tax cuts, he offers little comfort to our country's working families.

The average working American would much rather have guaranteed health care than a $400 tax rebate. Working Americans worry about the security of their current jobs. They are worried about the financial future of their children. They are concerned about the security of their retirement either that Social Security will not be there for them, or that their savings will be wiped out through another collapse of the stock market.

And the answer this President offers to each of these concerns is to cut taxes. Well, let’s be clear. The tax cuts this President is offering are not about giving a family an extra $400. And I don’t even believe that they’re really about giving far larger amounts to millionaires or corporations though they do that as well.

These tax cuts are the centerpiece of a radical agenda to destroy Social Security, Medicare, our public schools, and our public services through privatization and starvation.

The actions of this President and this Administration are threatening the soundness of our Social Security system and of our private pension systems as well. By creating the largest deficits in history and adding irresponsibly to the federal debt, he has given Americans worried about their retirement even more cause for concern.

As President, I will be committed to preserving the integrity and long-term stability of the Social Security Trust Fund. I will oppose privatizing the Social Security System. And I will pursue a responsible economic agenda, and under my plan we will never have to consider raising the retirement age.

The long-term future of Social Security and financial security for all of us in our retirement years depends on ensuring a healthy rate of economic growth over the next several decades. Even a modest increase in long-term growth rates will ease the burden on the Social Security Trust Fund. If we do need to bring more money into Social Security, then I’m prepared to look at reasonable options for expanding the ceiling on payroll taxes.

The best guarantee for our Social Security, therefore, is an economic plan with three basic principles:

First, we must create economic growth and jobs new jobs, more jobs, and better jobs for Americans;

Second, we must return to fiscal sanity, for the sake of future generations, yes but also for the sake of our very national security. We cannot be a world-class country if we are the world’s largest debtor;

Finally, we must reform our tax system. When I am President, I will work to repeal the top heavy Bush tax cuts, and replace them with a system that is fairer, and simpler, and places less of a burden on working Americans who live off their paychecks.

Today, I want to spend a few minutes talking with you about the first of my priorities economic growth and job creation. About how we do go about creating jobs and economic growth.

First, we need to put more money in the pockets of people who will spend it, not only wealthy investors whose needs are well taken care of. We can do this by taking several simple steps.

We should begin by raising the minimum wage. At a time when nine million Americans are out of work, let’s at least help those who are still working. When I was Governor, I raised the minimum wage. It’s now $6.75 an hour, compared to the federal minimum of $5.15. We’re the richest nation in the world. We can do better!

We should expand unemployment insurance to cover more low-wage and part-time workers. Less than 1 in 5 of them are covered today and I know we can do better!

We need to provide help to the states and communities who are laying off firefighters and police officers, closing schools early, reducing highway assistance, and even releasing prisoners from jail. And we should double the Community Development Block Grant Program.

Just this week, we’ve seen new data that shows that as states and local governments are raising taxes and cutting spending, they’re slowing the economy by as much a half a percentage point. By increasing assistance to them, we’re pumping money directly into the economy and more importantly creating more jobs!

We must increase our investments for growth. Too many of our schools are obsolete and decrepit. Your own Senator Harkin has been a real leader in pushing creative federal investments in new and better schools. That not only helps education it creates jobs. And tax cuts, as the President has proved, do not create jobs.

We need a national program to expand access to broadband in our inner cities and in rural America in order to allow those parts of America who have been left out of the new economy to participate in it.

We must bridge the digital divide between young and old, white and black, and rich and poor. Expanding the broadband network provides new employment opportunities and stimulates demand for information technology, creating more jobs in our vital high-tech industries.

No economic plan can ignore the issue of health care. My plan will reduce the cost of health insurance to employers, take a contentious issue off the bargaining table, and permit more money to be used to compensate employees and create new jobs!

We must re-examine our trade policies. In an era of globalization, multi-national corporations chase the lowest wages and the most permissive regulations. Fair trade is good for America and the world, but the playing field needs to be level. We can’t allow some countries to subsidize exports, manipulate their currencies, or erect barriers to imports from the United States.

We need to remember that the purpose of trade must be to improve the standard of living for us as well as our partners. Trade can only build strong and stable societies in developing countries if it is conducted under clear rules that are continually improved. Solid labor standards in our trade agreements are essential if we are to help create a strong middle class in the developing countries and creating strong middle classes in developing countries should be an essential goal of our trade policy. Middle-class economies create the basis for strong democracies and for strong demand for U.S. goods and services.

Those who deny that problems exist in our trading system are not helping the cause of trade. When I am President, I will insist that every new trade agreement include strict and enforceable labor and environmental provisions.

As for existing agreements, I will not hesitate to renegotiate provisions that can be improved for the benefit of both working Americans and our trading partners. I will make sure the interests of working Americans are represented at the negotiating table by giving labor a role on the advisory teams. We have to protect middle-class jobs in the United States with the same enthusiasm and vigor that we apply to protecting intellectual property rights, capital, and the interests of investors.

I am running for President because we can do better. We need to do better. The American people deserve a better deal.

Our country is built on the notion that we are all in this together. We are a community. We share in our prosperity and we take care of each other when times get tough. We must not lose that precious gift. We cannot allow a widening gap between the richest and the poorest among us.

I am tired of seeing a nation divided whether by race, or gender, or sexual orientation, or economic status. We need a government that works with the people and for the people that unites us in a common vision for the common good.

I know we can do better. You have the power to make it happen. You have the power in your hands to take back our country and bring about a better deal for all Americans.

I need your help. I ask for your help. Let’s work together to build a better nation, where work is honored and rewarded; where people are united in a common cause and dreams are matched to opportunities.

Let’s take back America and take our country forward!
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_speech_economy_morejobsforamerica
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Good Top Level Rhetoric
I will keep an open mind until I see more specifics.

This go around, I want to know what I am voting for specifically.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Here is the section of Dean's website on Labor.
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 06:55 PM by w4rma
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. double post (n/t)
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 06:25 PM by w4rma
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
71. The question was
So, especially since your experience is more on the foreign policy side, which advisors are you listening to? Who are you gravitating towards in the context of the Democratic party?

Prior was a statement!




CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. The Fairness Doctrine is Not My Concern
Jobs are!

eom
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StephNW4Clark Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. "Renegotiate NAFTA and WTO supporting Fair Trade not Free Trade."
Then why did you mention it as a key issue for you?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. This Has Nothing to do with the Fairness Doctrine
The fairness doctrine is about media ownership and responsibility not free trade.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. NAFTA Isn't Mentioned
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 04:40 PM by cryingshame
But why don't you extract the information from the interview that YOU think supports your contention about Clark so we can debate?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. Done, See Above
eom
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
53. I doubt that "debate" is what he/she wants
This is just the new meme for attacking Clark.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Let's Debate
I am looking for a candidate that will take on America's problems.

All of them.

I have no use for a candidate that will not address a severe underlying problem that is underminig our economy.

Why is this an attack instead of a serious look at a man and what he represents!
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. A very simple answer
No candidate can answer a question that hasn't been asked of him. Why don't you come back when Clark actually talks about the subject or posts his position on his website? Until then, I'd advise you to spend your time more constructively instead of making up positions from thin air.
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. I hope you enjoy your four more years of Busy.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
66. This suggests that Clark is the only one capable of beating Bush
He's not.
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clark supports FAIR trade
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. How would Clark be any different than Clinton?
Clark comes across as nothing more than a moderately conservative war hawk who has made a ton of money working for co's in the military industrial complex.

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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Not exactly
His view is extremely multilateralistic and in favor of diplomatic pressure over the use of force, thus hardly a war hawk. If he wanted to be part of the military industrial complex, he could very easily have by becoming a lobbyist for weapons firms. He chose not to. Instead, he focused on the environment and joined a company working on pollution-free electric devices. His views are more liberal than those of Dean, despite the portrayal of Dean being more liberal. And his support of the Fairness Doctrine is the same one that Kucinich is supporting to change the rules of Free trade to the benefit of American workers.

If you're looking for someone more liberal than Kucinich, Clark is not it, nor is Dean. But Clark is has an amazing ability to analyze and solve problems, liberal viewpoints of pro-choice, pro-environment, anti-school privatization, etc.

And you can tell that Clark isn't just winging it and spouting poll-tested answers, because if you examine all his answers in the TPM interview, you'll see that they are are indepth, complex, and commonsense. Note that fact that this was an impromptu interview in the backseat of a car. Each answer is an analysis of the strategic foundations of the problem -- that's his trademark. He is using his military strategist training on domestic affairs. This type of strategic analysis runs through all his answers, so you know it's really him, and not a horde of pollsters and issue advisers telling him to give whatever the answer it is that people want.

In the military, he has a reputation of micromanagement. If he doesn't know something, he'll learn it until he can deconstruct and reconstruct it backwards and forwards. That's why his answers are so detailed, he actually knows every nook and cranny.

For example, look at how he answered the Iraq problem. He could have said he was against it b/c we shouldn't attack, no WMD, etc, etc...all the stuff the other candidates say. But he went into deep detail, telling how using military force is stupid because the Bush administration is following an outmoded geopolitical strategy, and pointing out the reason geopolitical strategy can't solve terrorism. And how Iran and Syria now have a vested interest in promoting low level violence to keep us pinned down there so we can't attack them. That's a lot of deep thinking. And that's why he doesn't favor a military solution.

This type of strategic thinking is also used to craft a 100 yr vision, as you can see in his other speeches. This is his signature. The ability to think strategically. Whether it's foreign affairs, domestic affairs, or whatnot. Clinton never had the vision to articulate a 100 yr roadmap for peace and prosperity for America. Clark does.
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. 'Diplomatic pressure'-- NAFTA, FTAA, WTO economic violence??
Why not just pave a yellow-brick road for radical corporatists right into the legislature of every 3rd world country?

Oh and lock THIS country down with his TIA-corporate pals (1984 wasn't very violent either).


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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. TIA?
He opposes the Patriot Act. Did you see his NH townhall meeting?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Fancy Jingoistic Sloganeering
You know maybe everything you say is true.

But if a candidate cannot relate to me and my problems then all you have is a bunch of political pablum.

I truly wish the Clark people would get off the high horse and come walk a mile in my shoes.

Collectively, you folks are living in the clouds.

My feet pond the pavement everyday and they tell me that we need a jobs policy in this country.

Mind you not guaranteed jobs or government jobs, but a jobs policy that looks at our industrial base to insure we create jobs to support our people - not corporations hell bent on maximizing profit by outsourcing our jobs overseas and undermining our domestic industries.

In an odd way, the Clark crowd reminds one of the Greens, high on idealism but short on pragmatics!

You folks need to get real!
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. It's because I don't want to walk in your shoes that I
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 06:03 PM by BillyBunter
support Clark.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. And What Is That Supposed to Mean
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 06:19 PM by mhr
My CV

BSEE
MBA
Commercial Pilot
Veteran with DD 214 to prove it

1,426 resumes out the door
resume posted on 105 job boards

Not one inquiry on employment received in the last 18 months.

Are you impuning my character? Are you saying that I have not worked hard enough? Are you saying that belief in fiction like the republicans will save me?

What are you saying?

Be specific!
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. I was plenty of specific.
I'm not interested in seeing the country ruined by protectionism so you'll feel you have a better chance at a job. How you twisted that into an attack on your character will simply have to remain one of life's great mysteries to me. You have my sympathies, but my political support is determined by my mind, not my heart or your anger.
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Good one!
n/t
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. Take a walk in mine
Only child of elderly parents, single parent of two in college

Mother diagnosed with cancer Nov 1997, died 8 months later, able to work only part time due to the fact that they live 250 miles from me.

Father unable to drive, do shopping, laundry or suddenly assume handling financial affairs since my mother took care of everything. He is still sound of mind and refuses to move from his home....means hitting the road at least every other week. Cannot sell my home because we lost over $50k equity in the first 8 years due to unplanned and unbridled development.

Three months after I return to work, I finish blowing 3 discs in my neck, requiring 22 months of treatment/surgery/recuperation. There goes whatever is left of savings. Fired from job for exhausting FMLA. No health care. Only able to work part time after return to work because of family obligations. Several months behind on mortgage but cannot get a job near my dad.

Yeah, I have a job. Wanna trade?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. So Why Would You Support a Candidate
That does not support American Workers and American Industry above all else?

Clark is a moderate corporate candidate. He will support his corpoarte crowd long before he will support people like you and me.
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SWPAdem Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. Please link
to statements that Clark has ACTUALLY made that support your view of him....not something an advisor said. Cite specific actions.
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
75. Name a President
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 06:54 PM by retyred
better than Clinton, if what we get is another Clinton, I can accept and live with that.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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Cappurr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Don't you just love it when Democrats
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 04:52 PM by Cappurr
Who have the most corrupt president (R) in history in power, who have a minority in the house and the senate, still can't avoid distorting another democrats record......a democratic canditate who just might beat the Bush regime. I truly don't understand the logic

You can check every one of my posts and I have NEVER beat up on a single candidate. I've listed concerns....like Lieberman is a sweetie but too conservative for me. But I've never distorted any candidate's words or record.

It is so destructive and so very transparent.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. No Distortion
Edited on Thu Oct-02-03 04:57 PM by mhr
See extract above from the interview.
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. What does Clark's last-minute party affiliation have to do with it?
Don't give us that "one of our own" BS. He is a 'Total Information Awareness' repuke who was turned down for a job by Rove.

Clark was a lobbyist in Congress, selling his companie's "consumer information" to the likes of Ashcroft and Poindexter. He is a corporatist, one of the worst kind... right up there with the DBT/Choicepoint people from Florida 2000.

And like anyone with ACTIONS like that just during the past 2 years, his WORDS mean diddly-squat. He is the DLC version of Exxon's ad showing a brown baby running through a field of flowers. It's nothing.

Just imagine donating money to a Bush-era GOP fundraiser, someone who is still a non-Democrat.

No, no NO!!
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Wow, Talk About a Shrill Post
The Ignore list is humming along nicely, btw.

DTH
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
59. Clark's deeds set the tone well enough
There must be some pretty good company on that ignore list.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. You were "not supporting" him way before that. n/t
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. True, But I Did Take The Time To Read The Interview
It only confirmed my suspicions that he is a corporate candidate that will promote a softened corporate agenda.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. I won't support him because he won't repudiate Free Speech!
And Free Ice Cream!
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. As They Say Posts Like That
make an *** out you and me!
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
47. Single issue litmus tests! WTG!
:eyes:

Again: Party Politics is NOT a religion. There is no dogma. It is not a judgement on moral character if someone has a varying opinion. No matter how bad the republicans want it to be so.

Expand your mind and join us.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. My Mind Is Expanded to Homelessness
Can You Comprehend That!

I am college educated with two degress, a commercial pilot, and like Clark served as an officer in the military.

There are no bloody jobs!

Don't you read the papers. Many middle class jobs have been moved overseas and they are not, Not, NOT coming back!

Clark's charisma does not pay my bills!

Nor Does his "starpower."

The illusion of goodness is what has gotten us into this mess and it is time we start vetting the candidates critically.

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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
81. wow
So much negativity, Moriarity, you're really bringing me down.

You've obviously destined yourself to hell on earth and your post is just an excuse for you to seek help for what you see as helplessness.

Please don't take this the wrong way...but buh-by
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
63. After getting much milage from the single issue of Iraq
...I'd say it's about time to start measuring him against liberal politics.

Clark could drown in the wake of Cancun.

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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. I Think All Candidates Should be Reviewed
on how they stack up on the issues.

Glitz and Glamor may spark the imagination but what they believe and what they publically support will rule the day.

Just look at the Republicans, they were so desperate to believe in anyone but Clinton that they got hoodwinked by Bush.

Had anyone bothered to scrutinze Bush closely, many of the problems we see today could have been anticipated and prevented.

Maybe Clark is the best true blue democrat in the field.

If so, he needs to prove it!
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #67
79. I hope he gets out more on CNN, etc. once you see him
he blows your socks off. VERY intelligent, thoughtful, measured.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
48. Well, since I'm for free trade, this is great news.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Well As They Say
Great minds think alike:

George Bush
Bill Clinton
Brian *****
etc.
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