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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:04 AM
Original message
How "Battle Hardened" Nation Guard are responding: gun point
I am grateful to and thank all the first responders, NG and military who are in NO. But the atmosphere is so poisoned at this point, and the militarization of the NG has gone so far, that I fear that the NG is no longer able to respond to the citizens of NO as civilians.

Here is a first hand report from NO by a blogger trying to survive in that city. He was on the phone with someone at the convention center, where bodies are piling up, and the victims of the disaster are being treated not unlike Iraqi prisoners:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

"Bigfoot" is a bar manager and DJ on Bourbon Street, and is a local personality and icon in the city. He is a lifelong resident of the city, born and raised. He rode out the storm itself in the Iberville Projects because he knew he would be above any flood waters. Here is his story as told to me moments ago. I took notes while he talked and then I asked some questions:

Three days ago, police and national guard troops told citizens to head toward the Crescent City Connection Bridge to await transportation out of the area. The citizens trekked over to the Convention Center and waited for the buses which they were told would take them to Houston or Alabama or somewhere else, out of this area.

It's been 3 days, and the buses have yet to appear.

Although obviously he has no exact count, he estimates more than 10,000 people are packed into and around and outside the convention center still waiting for the buses. They had no food, no water, and no medicine for the last three days, until today, when the National Guard drove over the bridge above them, and tossed out supplies over the side crashing down to the ground below. Much of the supplies were destroyed from the drop. Many people tried to catch the supplies to protect them before they hit the ground. Some offered to walk all the way around up the bridge and bring the supplies down, but any attempt to approach the police or national guard resulted in weapons being aimed at them.

There are many infants and elderly people among them, as well as many people who were injured jumping out of windows to escape flood water and the like -- all of them in dire straights.

Any attempt to flag down police results in being told to get away at gunpoint. Hour after hour they watch buses pass by filled with people from other areas. Tensions are very high, and there has been at least one murder and several fights. 8 or 9 dead people have been stored in a freezer in the area, and 2 of these dead people are kids.

The people are so desperate that they're doing anything they can think of to impress the authorities enough to bring some buses. These things include standing in single file lines with the eldery in front, women and children next; sweeping up the area and cleaning the windows and anything else that would show the people are not barbarians.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bush said today they had to 'secure the area"--this is past scary. He
had been talking about the Convention center which he said he had been briefed on. it is clear to me that the military is treating this like a war zone. while the people just want someone to CARE.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. kick
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Also LA governor Blanco has been saying ...
she wants a shoot to kill policy.

Democracy Now just reported that bush was asked whether shoot to kill applies to people trying to get food and water, and he basically said yes. That the government was the proper way to get food and water.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Stupid, hateful, SOB. The loser has NEVER been in a situation where....
...he has suffered hardship of any kind, nor has he been in a situation where he was forced to make certain decisions just to survive.

He is less than worthless.
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Barrymores Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Still trying to prove his manhood to Poppy...
...and suffering from pre-senile dementia and a God complex to boot.

Boy, we got ourselves a real live one with Smirky, didn't we? A dry-drunk, coke-addled, self-styled dictator who hasn't a clue that he's really just a sock-puppet for a bunch of crazed Utopian neo-fascists.

God Bless America.....PLEASE.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
40. My god. Shoot to kill those getting water and food for their families who
are dying.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. kick
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. I can't imagine waiting all that time for buses to take them away
from the horror over there and then seeing buses filled with other people passing them by. I really think I'd lose it.:-(
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. And the horror of being trapped in that situation yet denied the chance
to walk away to try to get water or food from a store.
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Have the guardians of our nations security been corrupted
by this administration?
Someone has turned the NGs attitude of servitude into one of antagonism.
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You dont remember the NG during Vietnam. I do. They shot to kill.
they have always been a force AGAINST the citizen, not to help. they are used for civil unrest.
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Oh I do remember Kent State
Edited on Fri Sep-02-05 09:32 AM by randr
But I also have many other memories of disasters where the NG immediately responded to the benefit of us all. Also have friends serving for very patriotic reasons.
Additon on edit:
The orders come from above as in: the fish rots from the head down.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Funny everyone remembers Kent State but how about Jackson State?
Happened at about the same time as Kent State.

"There was screaming and cries of terror and pain mingled with the noise of sustained gunfire as the
students struggled en masse to get through glass double doors. A few students were trampled.
Others, struck by buckshot pellets or bullets, fell only to be dragged inside or left moaning in the grass.

When the order to cease fire was given and the gunfire ceased, Phillip Lafayette Gibbs, 21, a junior pre-law major and father of an 18-month-old son, lay dead 50 feet east of the west wing door of Alexander Hall. Two Double-0 buckshot pellets had punched into his head while a third pellet entered just beneath his left eye and a fourth just under his left armpit.

Across the street, behind the line of police and highway patrolmen, James Earl Green, 17, was sprawled dead in front of B. F. Roberts Dining Hall. Green, a senior at Jim Hill High School in Jackson, was walking home from work at a local grocery store when he stopped to watch the action. He was standing in front of B. F. Roberts Hall when a single buckshot blast slammed into the right side of his chest. The police later claimed that they had taken fire from the direction of B. F. Roberts Hall.

Twelve other Jackson State students were struck by gunfire, including at least one who was sitting in the dormitory lobby at the time of the shooting. Several students required treatment for hysteria and injuries from shattered glass. Injured and carried to University Hospital for treatment were Fonzie Coleman, Redd Wilson Jr. , Leroy Kenter, Vernon Steve Weakley, Gloria Mayhorn, Patricia Ann Sanders , Willie Woodard, Andrea Reese, Stella Spinks, Climmie Johnson, Tuwaine Davis and Lonzie Thompson.

The five-story dormitory was riddled by gunfire. FBI investigators estimated that more than 460 rounds struck the building, shattering every window facing the street on each floor. Investigators counted at least 160 bullet holes in the outer walls of the stairwell alone -- bullet holes that can still be seen today"

These were black students and no one seems to remember them....
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AverageJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I knew about Jackson State
but not the details. Just awful.

What was the date?
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Mid May 1970 ~ one week after Kent State.
:shrug:
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arenar Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. this all seems race related IMHO...
If the people in the city were not mostly African American, they would be treated differently. We've always been warned of (and have seen) the terrible things racism can bring. There might be other factors contributing to the situation, like the criminal acts and the incompetence in leadership, but the racism is also a problem.
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wildflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. They're trying to "impress the authorities" just to get help...
How awful...how sad.

The people are so desperate that they're doing anything they can think of to impress the authorities enough to bring some buses. These things include standing in single file lines with the eldery in front, women and children next; sweeping up the area and cleaning the windows and anything else that would show the people are not barbarians.
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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. that part kills me too.
god, why do they have to prove anything? Just rescue them!!
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defiant1 Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. What kind of ridiculous logic is that?
So these people have no food, and no water. When the supplies finally get to them, the NG decides to toss them over a bridge???

:wtf:

And then there are people willing to walk around the bridge so the supplies don't get smashed from impact.

So they point their guns at them, and tell them to get back.

:wtf:

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. The survivors of this will emerge with a bitterness unlike any other.
Bad enough their ancestors were brought here to serve white men and their families. Bad enough they've been treated as second-class citizens in the employment arena. Now the thin veneer of racial equality is stripped away and the truth lies there, ugly and monstrous and rabid, for all the world to see.

This would not be happening if the majority of those stranded were white. It simply would not be happening.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. Also, would not be happening if another Bush kid
were the governor....
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
13. I don't think it's race related, just toal incompetence
I do not believe for one minute that the military or the police want to kill our own people in a situation like that. Yes, it has happened in the past. That does not mean they are trigger happy. Don't think the police and guard presence are necessarily for the so-called looters. Think it's to stop the serious criminal elements they say is obviously going on.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Pointing weapons at people that are hungry, thirsty, and seeking help....
...is not a real good indicator that the NG and police want to be helpful. Tossing food from a bridge doesn't show me very much, either.

The longer this situation is allowed to continue, the angrier the victims are going to get. If I were in the same situation, and my family was hungry, thirsty, and in danger of dying, I would NOT be a very happy camper.
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Barrymores Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. If you don't think it's race-related...
...you should read some of the neo-con posters in Slate's Ballot Box. They love to muse that this is how "those people" behave - that one need only look at the inordinately high percentage of blacks in the nation's prison system as proof of this theory. Of course, the fact that abject poverty, not race, is the impetus for most violent crime seems to escape this crowd.

I don't ascribe racism to the entirety of the NG, but I don't think Smirky McMurderer is getting his lace panties in a twist over a bunch of dead darkies. Where he comes from, they're dragged behind trucks for sport.
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smurfygirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. officially starting the stream of tears today with this heartbreaking
story.

I have no other words at this point. I'm am seriously trembling.
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Barrymores Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. I woke up today and this was the first thing I read...
...and I haven't words to express the sadness and rage I feel. My wife and I both tried to read this aloud to each other, and couldn't get through it all. The thought of human beings, citizens of this nation, being regarded and treated as animals in the wake of such a horrendous disaster as this is too much for me to take.

I have to agree with previous posters who wonder if the response would not have been far better-coordinated, had this been a city full of rich white folk.

God damn this "administration." God damn them all.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. nominated.... RED FLAG!!
major danger ahead
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. My nephew's guard unit leaves for LA or MS today!
He's not sure where he's going but he knows that his GA guard unit is joining up with a Florida unit to join the MPs. My guess if he's joining the MPs he's going to NO.
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mixedview Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
22. it's not their job to be compassionate, but to show force/authority
how do they know who is who ? the guard and the police have been fired on and attacked and they are probably pissed and afraid also.

first and foremost, it is their job to maintain order

they are not caregivers.

focus your rage elsewhere, not on the first responders, who have a very difficult job ahead of them.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. And here's another "Law and Order/Shoot to Kill" Advocate
Right here on DU.


Your compassion is lacking.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. Fuck off you filthy troll --- enjoy your tombstone
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HoosierClarkie Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. wow.
Harry Connick Jr. Looked really scared when he was there too.
Please.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
24. military assault instead of disaster relief... this is genocide n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. So they think they've brainwashed the Guard so that they can be part of
their dreamed-of fascist Pentagon-directed military domestic "police" force.

Read this thread and see the bigger picture:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4519574
Thread title: DU- Think about the implications of this: Nat'l Guard in Iraq, NorthCom HERE.

Read the whole thread. This is part of the truth they are hiding, and it will chill you. NorthCom is a MAJOR piece. It was initially headed by the same general who was the NORAD chief who oversaw the amazing string of "coincidences" by which interceptor fighter jets were called off during the very long flights of the hijacked planes on 9/11. Read about the horror of NorthCom here in an article written by a Canadian:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411C.html

Don't be put off by the title. Read the NorthCom article and that thread and you will understand more.

Guess I was partly wrong - I thought they sent the Guard to Iraq to use them up and destroy them so that NorthCom could take over as they work toward martial law in the US. As the Chinese discovered during the student protests in Beijing some years ago, local troops just don't want to shoot their familiar fellow citizens. So the Chinese imported troops from thousands of miles away, people who had a totally different cultural background. It worked. The protest was most brutally crushed by hardened soldiers without any compunction. Dissent was stifled.

Looks like turning OUR National Guard into hardened soldiers without any compunction was part of the goal after all. Besides, they don't want to unveil NorthCom as a military domestic enforcer cadre until they have to.

I suspect the drowning of New Orleans and the Administration abandonment without relief of the hurricane-devastated areas of the South WERE DELIBERATE steps toward this. Bush wanted a military domestic police force, and he's getting it. I call what happened to New Orleans LIWOP - let it worsen on purpose. To read why I think so, work through this thread and see how the pieces fit together:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4523783
Thread title: CNN/New Orleans:"Mayor blasts failure to patch levee breeches" and that's {only the beginning}:

Orwell would understand. And we need to ask: Dick Cheney is still on "vacation." What's he REALLY doing?


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cordelia106 Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. It has been a week...
Edited on Fri Sep-02-05 10:26 AM by cordelia106
It has been a week since this hurricane hit the Gulf coast,and

I still can not look at the photos, or read the stories without

tears.Until Tuesday afternoon I really did not pay attention to the

to the story of the storm,I thought it to be just more weather news

that the mainstream media loves to report rather than actual news.

Now I can not tear myself away. I am shocked at the level of

incompetence and depraved indifference that marks a new low for

even this administration.Is it due to racism ? I do not think that

they think enough of the citizens of this country to even consider

the race of the people. It is a sink or swim mentality that for

too many people this week has become the literal truth.

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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. well, the more people who die
or are shot by bushista storm troopers

the easier it gets to solve the refugee problem

:sarcasm:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
32. My heart is just breaking.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
33. Total incompetence
this is what happens with cronyism, he picks friends that are not qualified to run these departments and cabinet positions, then they are not able to do their job when needed...


SOMEONE HAS TO SAY THIS IS NOT A GAME...THESE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS pushed into desperation by an incompetent administration that is as usual a day late and a dollar short...Much of this would not have been happening if they had evacuated all the people, or if they had gotten feet on the ground immediately...
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HoosierClarkie Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
35. No words.
There are just no words. :cry:
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. Just imagine those guns pointed at YOU.
That might be happening sooner than you think. With the country descending into a form of economic and political chaos, with citizens openly revolting, I do believe that many people, no matter their race, will be facing down troops with arms aimed at them.

We might actually thank our lucky stars that much of the guardsmen are in Iraq... so we can take back our country with little federal resistance.
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. That's why we have a second amendment - so we can point back
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