A question for parents only...Please respond

[KaraokeKarlton]

What would you think of the government making it mandatory for your child to have to work for free doing community service type work in order to receive their highschool diploma? Also, for kids between the ages of 13 and 17 to have to spend one entire summer working for free and being encouraged to join the military? Would you support these things or do you view such mandates as a violation of the civil and human rights of your child/ren and an infringement upon your rights as a parent? I'm not talking about offering this as an option, I'm talking about forced labor or NO DIPLOMA.

[goobergunch]

1. I'm a student

but let's just say that anybody that proposed this would NOT have my support.

[KaraokeKarlton]

8. Then you should see this link

http://www.geocities.com/hatredsucks/johnkerry.html

I didn't realize one of our candidates wanted to do this. As a parent, I have to say that if he gets the nomination I WON'T vote for him. There are other reasons I don't like him, but this one just takes the cake. The day the government forces my children to work for free or otherwise will be over my dead body. This makes me SO angry!

[tjdee]

15. What about when your kid has an internship?

I interned with a Fortune 500 company while I was in college, a pretty wealthy company, and you know how much I got paid?

Zip.

But it was a college graduation requirement.

So would that upset you as well? Was I (and everyone else who went to my school) forced to work?

[KaraokeKarlton]

22. Not on a college level

Because the person is an adult and no one forced them to choose a course of study that would require that. The same can't be said of minors. It's entirely different.

[tjdee]

26. It was for all majors.

So no one could opt out of it. If you went to the school, you had to do an internship.

(But, your argument would still work here, as we *chose* to go to the school--but then, some of us weren't 18 when we applied and went to the school, I certainly wasn't.)

I see your point, but then couldn't you say that about a lot of things? I was "forced" to do a science project in public (government)high school. I was "forced" to read Julius Caesar. Etc. etc. etc.

I dunno, I guess we'll disagree.

[populistmom]

49. But you still chose the school, correct.

Public school school should not follow theses types of guidelines IMHO.

[goobergunch]

25. I've posted to the P/C thread on this (n/t)

[blondeatlast]

33. I would like a link to an objective site about this.

I'll be willing to discuss it if one can be provided.

edit: from his own site:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/service.html

I think the idea of earning college tuition for community service is a great one.

The HS thing I'm unsure about; if he is asking a week, I think that it's a good idea; a month or more, no.

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. Go to Kerry's web site and look at his issues pages

He has it all listed on his site.

[goobergunch]

39. Here's a couple links

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/johnkerry_service_fact_sheet.pdf

The P/C (calmer) thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=52679&mesg_id=52679&page=

[Jacobin]

2. Do they get to wear a uniform with a brown shirt?

I was draft age during the Vietnam debacle.

I vote NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO and NO

[VermontDem2004]

3. I am not a parent

But I am 100% against this.

[blackcat77]

4. It's unconstitutional and denies parental rights nt

[Cheswick2.0]

5. I beleive that it is wrong

I think if parents want to encourage children to do volunteer work that is great. But you are right, It is forced labor.

[Shrek]

6. Public schools only? Or all schools?

It wouldn't bother me too much if it applied only to public schools. After all, if the public is funding it then the public has a right to decide what requirements have to be met for graduation.

But I'd be against it for home-schooled kids, or for schools that receive no public funding.

[JohnKleeb]

7. It should be choice related I agree with you on that

Also another problem is forcing kids, if you cant pass the standarlized test thats too bad you cant move on. Whos guilty of this? my fucking state.

[KaraokeKarlton]

12. That's what I'm mad about...it being forced

That's just plain wrong, and as you just pointed out, there are enough problems with state education requirements as it is.

[JohnKleeb]

16. Standarilzed testing is something we must get rid of

Call me nutty but I think all you should do to pass school is get the required grade. Youre right about that, it shouldnt be forced.

[Yupster]

47. Okay - you're nutty

My local paper had a story that last year 75 % of the grades given out in 6th grade were 'A's'. Obviously in my district grades don't mean a thing. We need something more than that until we get the grade inflation under control. I've heard colleges are even worse and Ivy League schools are the worst when it comes to grade inflation.

[Pastiche423]

9. I would be absolutely against it

[CityDem]

10. What about the old folks

Should we force them to work in sweatshops to earn their medicare benefits? I think every family should be allowed to make decisions regarding the well being of their children. I encourage my 2 children to work and participate in socially benefical ventures. But, I would not send them off to come forced labor camp.

[tjdee]

11. I would support that, it could be like an internship-not the military.

Not a whole summer though, and not the military.

The thing is, they study for grades and don't get paid for it, and in college you do internships for no money. On edit--as to this being "forced"...are graduation requirements "forced"?

So this is a good idea, IMO. Just because there's a brownshirts/Hitler youth ooga booga thing about the military, I believe some other countries have mandatory military service and seem to be okay--though I personally have a big problem with it.

Community service, definitely.

I think that many young people *don't* do enough for the community, because their parents don't. I think it would be a good learning experience for them, plus the obvious bonus of service to the community. The length of time, though, is questionable. Maybe a few hours a week, or per semester, or something. An entire summer? No way.

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. I'm all for encouraging it, but NOT forcing it

It's the "mandatory" thing I have a real problem with.

[tjdee]

18. What about internships and graduation requirements?

To graduate, you *are* "forced" to do things in high school.

"Forced" to get above an F.

"Forced" to take certain classes.

I don't see this as any different.

Oh--and I should say, I'm a parent. My kid is way too small for this stuff though.

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. I have 4 kids

I work full time, am a single parent, have endless band practices, concerts, sports practices, games, and numerous other things that I am already struggling to schedule around my job. One toddler is a breeze to take care of and juggle other requirements of your own around. Add three more kids, all of them active teenagers to the mix and see how it works for you.

It's VERY different. I'd have 3 different kids who I'd have to cart around for this community service program. My boss is already at his wit's end that he has to check my kids's schedules to know when he can put me on the work schedule. If I had to add more times I had to be off from work I'd get fired.

[tjdee]

42. This isn't "I have more work than you so your opinion doesn't count" is it

??

NOW we're getting to it. Your problem isn't really community service, it's that you would have more work and shuttling to do (which you would, and that would suck, and I wouldn't pretend that having one kid is as much work as three. I'm a single parent too).

I mean, you haven't even seen how it would be implemented yet (or even passed through Congress), but you're ready to accuse John Kerry's proposal of possibly costing you your job??

[KaraokeKarlton]

43. Not at all

I'm simply reminding you that there are families who this would cause real problems for...including mine. And yes, if I were to have to tell my boss yet again that I can't work "such and such hours" because I have to drive my kids to mandatory community service I risk being fired. I have already had to arrange to leave early and causing him scheduling headaches Monday thru Friday because I have to pick up one of my kids from sports practice at a set time and transport him to games every day they don't have practice. This one son has NO free time at all to do any kind of community service. As it is he's so tired he falls asleep before dinner more often than not. He's in the toughest classes in his school, advanced placement and plays sports all year long, plays both the trumpet and the drums and there is no way he can handle anything else. It's like this for him all year. Summer is the only time he sees his father, who lives in another state. The other two aren't quite as busy, but have activities, hobbies and jobs to save for college. All of my kids have volunteered in the past and will in the future...as THEY see fit and have time for...and on THEIR terms, NOT on John Kerry's.

[Pale Blue Dot]

13. I'm fine with the community service, NOT with the military

I think I would definatly vote AGAINST anyone who proposed that my son be made to serve in military.

I really like the community service part, though.

[dofus]

17. The independent (read private) school my kids go to

requires a certain amount of community service to graduate. They actually withhold diplomas from kids who don't complete it. But we're talking a total of 50 hours over the four years.

I kind of want to know how much community service would be required before I say yay or nay. But an entire summer? Excuse me? My current high school junior (older one is in college) also works at a paid job 10-20 hours per week. As do LOTS of high school students. For a lot of kids it's the part time during the school year, full time in the summer employment that pays for college. They'd be expected to give that up?

And here's another thing to consider: A lot of businesses out there depend on teen labor to stay in business. Lots of fast food restaurants. Theme parks during the summer. A lot of retail. Restaurants and fast food. Take all of those kids away from those jobs and businesses would have to close.

The motive behind such thinking is a good one, if not well thought out.

[tjdee]

20. I agree.

An entire summer is not the time...plus, a kid wants to relax a little, geez!

Anyone know, now that I'm looking through the thread, this is about Kerry (nice stealth attack, LOL)-- does Kerry have any kids?

[KaraokeKarlton]

40. I would feel the same way regardless of who called for this

It would have a VERY negative impact on my life. It could even cost me my job.

[Iverson]

19. I am a parent.

I think that that proposal stinks.

[On the Road]

21. I Would Not Support This for My Daughter

certainly not as a condition of getting a high school diploma.

Kids are too busy these days. They really don't need another set of mandatory activities. I understand the intention is to inspire civic feelings and give back to the community -- I just don't think it is likely to have that effect. There has to be a better way.

[radwriter0555]

23. No way.

Absolutely not.

[Maple]

24. Then you all wonder

why you can't have a 'kinder gentler nation' and one that cares about other people.

You have to teach it first.

It's a credit requirement here.

And a great blessing to the elderly and disabled.

[JohnKleeb]

28. You mean like volunteer work at retirement homes, etc

I dont mind this idea, maybe it shouldnt be forced but encouraged much like the Peace Corps were.

[tjdee]

29. I know!

Then people wonder why no one cares about anyone else.

Man, Canada really is cool, isn't it!

[JohnKleeb]

32. I do see the good points in this

but mandatory kind of makes me a little :shrug: but if we wanna be a peaceful nation maybe things like this are ok, I would prefer it be encouraged. I dont know.

[Snow]

27. Well, the National Honor Society and such

already require that. My daughter at age 15 had been volunteering at a university medical center based center for developmentally diasbled. She enjoyed the work, they liked her, and when she hit 16 they said, we can pay you, now, and we'd like to. So she said sure, and suddenly the work doesn't count anymore. So she went next door and volunteered in the emergency room on Saturday afternoons.

However, as an old Peace Corps volunteer, I remember when there was discussion of offering Peace Corps as an alternate service to draft. We in Peace Corps were pretty solidly against it, on the grounds that we would be swamped with unwilling 'volunteers'. This could have the same result.

[JohnKleeb]

30. lightbulb thats it I remember now

No I was never a member.

[leftofthedial]

31. I would not support this

although, it *would* get them out of reform school for an entire summer, so . . . .

[Ryk6]

38. When I lived in Maine

my kids had to perform a certain number of hours of community service in order to graduate high school. It pissed me off at first, but I think my son learned a little about life working in a soup kitchen there. If his rights were violated, I would have to say it was a minor infraction overall.

[proud patriot]

35. it would piss me off if it was mandatory

I do however think it should be given as an option
for possibly elective, social study credits ,
or summer school.

[goobergunch]

41. I concur.

I'm all for voluntary service. But I'm not big on requirements.

[BiggJawn]

36. I'm against it.

Smacks of the "Hitler Youth" to me.

Like everything else the BFEE has come up with, there's be a whole lot of kids just sitting around in the sun all day because there's no work for them to do. In the meantime, the "traditional" summer jobs, like working the Dog n' Suds or being a "Maize Reproductive Control Engineer" (tassel plucker) go un-done.

Sure glad my kid's out of school!

BTW, I not only did NOT sign the "voluntary consent" form to allow them to force her to piss in a cup, but I wrote the Principal of her school an informative letter on the ins and outs of "Probable Cause", too.

[SWPAdem]

44. Before this goes any further

Go to Kerry's site and read his plan. For all you know, this link goes to a site that is owned by a right wing moran. NOWHERE in the PDF on this subject, did I see the words mandatory, forced labor, etc. Good Grief!

BTW I am a parent of two, that were required to do community service to get their HS diploma, and I was a single parent.

[KaraokeKarlton]

45. Kerry's site does call for it being mandatory

someone put the link to the page further up on the thread. It clearly states right on his issues page that he would require mandatory service for kids to graduate. It clearly says kids aged 13 to 17 would spend an entire summer doing "service" and that his plan would encourage kids to join the military. I take serious issue with anyone FORCING my children to do work, free or otherwise. They are minors and MY responsibility. They all volunteer now and then, at their own choosing. The government has NO right to mandate that my children work for them for free or even paid. Republicans will eventually be in power again if this is put into place. They'd use it as a foundation to reinstate the draft and abuse it. It's also a violation of the rights of the kids.

[SWPAdem]

46. Encourage

v. to give support, to be favorable to; to give hope, confidence or embolden

That is a far cry from forcing anyone into the military, which I am firmly against.

The kinds of things that my kids did were all community service, like Special Olympics, visiting nursing homes, after school programs. It broadened their horizons, considerably. They are not hauling trash or doing manual labor. THAT would be a very different issue.

[latebloomer]

48. Blech!

I just skimmed the thing and it sounds like some community service would be mandatory for graduation, but the summer service would be optional, in return for $500 tuition assistance.

Nothing wrong with encouraging community service, but I'm not crazy about the feds making it mandatory, even in small doses, and I'm definitely not happy with the military flavor of the whole thing-- eg., colleges that accept federal aid MUST accept ROTC.

[sal]

50. This is already manadtory in many schools

in Texas.

Personally, I do not believe in work for no pay. It is called slavery.

[LevChernyi]

51. community service I could see..

nothing draconian but I could see it as part of a required civics class.

All the rest can go straight in trash, especially that bit about turning them into para-militaries or whatever.

[populistmom]

52. As a parent, I am completely against this

Volunteering is not volunteering when forced. If an effort is being made to get kids more involved in community service, it needs to be either initiated by the parents or it needs to be truly voluntary (and perhaps little incentives to go along with it).