STOP CALLING THESE PEOPLE REFUGEES.

[seemslikeadream]

from habitual
asks the damn media to STOP CALLING THESE PEOPLE REFUGEES. Says they are working, tax paying citizens of the US, NOT REFUGEES.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4578701&mesg_id=4578701

[babylonsister]

1. Amen. They are all AMERICANS! nt

[Henny Penny]

41. They are American refugees!!!

Wake the fuck up!!!

[shance]

64. They ARE NOT REFUGEES... A refugee implies they come from another country.

How convenient then to treat them like "refugees".

It's a word born of prejudice.

Are you prejudiced? I hope not.

As Governor Dean said yesterday. "These are our people".

You're damned right they are.

[ikojo]

123. shance wrote....

"They ARE NOT REFUGEES... A refugee implies they come from another country."
Posted by shance

They do come from another America that is often ignored by the media and others in the US, that of poor America. For too many people it is a foreign land where people struggle under harsh conditions for little reward. What they hope for is a pie in the sky when they die as Utah Phillips has sung.

[Roland99]

141. You all are playing a game of semantics. IMO, they are.

They've been displaced from their home...that's all that matters.

[HEyHEY]

152. Um you don't have to leave a country to be a refugee

There are refugees from congo living in congo

[MODemocrat]

162. Someone seeking shelter and safety is a Refugee

Not necessarily from another country.

[Imagevision]

173. So, New Yorkers on 9-11 fleeing the city were also refugee's??

[seemslikeadream]

174. GREAT QUESTION!!

If you don't start a thread on this question I will.

Please let me know

[Avalux]

2. I agree. They are displaced US citizens.

I don't like that word either.

[jokerman93]

115. bingo

Displaced tax paying citizens that will vote next time around. We should see to that.

[Dissent Is Patriotic]

3. kicked...

let's not use language to make them foreign, let's not go down that slippery slope, let's own this language and think of our own verbiage to use

[Justyce]

4. I've been saying this for days too --

I could live with "evacuees" or something, but they are NOT refugees!

[wanpete]

5. just another way to desensitize people to the suffering of the NOLA poor

will not work...these people are not refugees...they are americans without homes, food, and water....

[seemslikeadream]

6. REFUGEES FOX NEWS????

http://img288.imageshack.us.nyud.net:8090/img288/5281/body3qz.jpg

[Connie_Corleone]

7. KICK

People locally here (Cincinnati) are complaining about that term too.

[Spazito]

8. They are victims not only of the fury of the hurricane but also,

more despicably, victims of federal government criminal negligence, inaction, you name it.

[earthside]

9. Oh, Brother! They ARE Refugees

Sorry ... these poor folks are seeking refuge from the effects of a natural disaster and total lack of assistance.

They are refugees ... what kind of 'politcal correctness' is this to say that they are not?

Imagine, only in George W. Bush's America have we seen refugees like this in our country ... what a commentary that is on where we have been taken.

[Just Me]

14. "Refugees" nominalizes their status as American citizens.

American citizens who DESERVE safety and protection. American citizens who have been abandoned by their government.

I see where you are coming from. However, I agree with the assessment that, calling American citizens in desparate need who are being abandoned by their government,...calling those American citizens, "refugees", minimizes both their status and the government's unacceptable lack of response.

[Occulus]

36. I see it in exactly the opposite way (not a flame post)

"refugees", to me, conjures an image of a class of survivor who is most in need of help, most lacking critical supplies, most desperate among all the affected. To me, using the word "refugees" says, "they need help yesterday.

I would also say that "refugees", when used over the long term, brings to me an image of a government MIA, one that either cannot be bothered or is too inept.

Using the word "homeless" would minimize their plight, but not "refugees", IMO.

[peacebuzzard]

54. Refugees request asylum from the horror they wish to escape

These New Orleans residents are victims of a disastrous event which caused suffering, displacement and loss of lives and living.

Refugees are fleeing political boundaries and leaving homes and lives behind. These citizens were subjected to a predictable natural phenomena that caused this nightmare.

It's just words call it whatever you want...
they need help, American residents and citizens that need help.

[Henny Penny]

44. It only minimizes their status in the minds of those who think

refugees don't matter.

And I'd really like to think that was nobody round here!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. Well said

Any refugee is someone in need. That doesn't make them any less worthy of attention as people - it makes them more so. Why some on DU have a problem with the term, I can't tell. If one associates the term with people from another country, then one should think about what that means for the state of American government.

[seemslikeadream]

53. It was a member of the Black Caucus that had a problem

with it. That's were the quote came from

[Henny Penny]

125. Well I guess they know the audience they are dealing with...

ie they think the term means people will switch off from the suffering, the same way they switch off from suffering in other parts of the world.

The bottom line is those people need help now and I guess we can all try and do or say whatever we think is going to get them that help.

[Pacifist Patriot]

56. Bravo!

I agree.

[electron_blue]

15. Yes, you're right, technically they are refugees from the storm

But in the context of how it's usually used in the news and in conversation, it's usually directed at people who are really totally screwed and usually not much is done to seriously help refugees. I don't like the term bcs I see it as the rest of the U.S. already giving up on them. It's an image more than anything.

[seemslikeadream]

a person seeking refuge (or asylum) in another country

Refugee

A refugee is a person seeking refuge (or asylum) in another country in order to escape persecution. Those who seek refugee status are sometimes known as asylum seekers and the practice of accepting such refugees is that of offering political asylum. The most common asylum claims are based upon political and religious grounds. The term has also been used to describe those fleeing the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, however they do not meet this defination.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee

[Ravenseye]

26. One who flees in search of refuge

Refugee

One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=refugee

Yes there are contexts of from one country to another but it's not the only context.

[Dora]

42. I agree. Denying this will accomplish NOTHING.

They ARE refugees. They are without refuge, and seeking it.

These are our brothers and sisters, our parents, our children, and they have been cast adrift by the greed and ineptitude of all our leaders, but most especially by the White House and its minions.

There is blood on the hands of these men. It will never wash clean.

[goodhue]

89. they are not, look it up . . .

they are not outside their country

[blueatheart]

10. peeved me off to..

until I looked refugee up.

Encarta:
ref·u·gee < rèffyə je`e > (plural ref·u·gees)
noun
Definitions:
somebody seeking safe place: somebody who seeks or takes refuge in a foreign country, especially to avoid war or persecution ( often used before a noun )


Webster:
Ref`u`gee´ Pronunciation: r?f`?`j?´
n. 1. One who flees to a shelter, or place of safety.
2. Especially, one who, in times of persecution or political commotion, flees to a foreign power or country for safety; as, the French refugees who left France after the revocation of the edict of Nantes

[electron_blue]

11. I agree. I find this term totally demeaning

There's some loss of respect there

[DistressedAmerican]

12. American Refugees! The Two Are Not Conflicting Terms!

These are American Refugees.

They look a lot like Sudanese refugees, Hatian refugees and Somali refugees.

That is tragic.

[shance]

68. It is a word veiled in some prejudice. They are AMERICANS PERIOD.

If you want to use terminology "refugee" to imply some sort of inferior status, then do it and know that is exactly what you're doing.

They are tax paying Americans that have lost EVERYTHING.

[The Magistrate]

113. As A Matter Of Curiousit, Sir

How do you conclude that people using the word mean to ascribe an inderior status to the people denominated by it?

That seems an unwarrantable assumption....

[dansolo]

163. It also smacks of a different kind of racism

People seem to be afraid of associating Americans with refugees from other countries, as if being American is somehow inherently better than being from another country, even if their plights are similar. Personally I think that refugees is the correct term, and perhaps if people see AMERICAN refugees, they won't be as eager to shut out thinking of other refugees from around the world.

[Liberal In Texas]

13. They are refugees, by definition.

refugee

n : an exile who flees for safety

[seemslikeadream]

19. not from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee

[Liberal In Texas]

23. Wikipedia is not always accurate. Use a dictionary.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. yes from a dictionary

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=refugee

subjectProdigal

[Liberal In Texas]

82. And that is EXACTLY where my post #23 came from. 3rd definition.

Just because the usage is not first definition, does not make it any less accurate.

[Lorien]

38. Last time I evacuated from a hurricane I was addressed

by hotel staff and others as a "refugee"; I certainly didn't take offense because I was indeed seeking shelter from a bad situation.

[seemslikeadream]

39. Are you black?

[Lorien]

48. Nope

I'm white. There were a lot of white and hispanic Floridians staying at the hotels along the evacuation route. Since a refugee is a person seeking safety, shelter or asylum, the term was correct.

[goodhue]

90. legal definition requires presence outside country of nationality

http://uscis.gov/text/services/refugees/Definition.htm

The Refugee Act formally incorporated into U.S. law the international definition of refugee contained in the 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol. A refugee is defined as a person outside of his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

[Imagevision]

171. an exile who flees for safety? - keep trying you'll get it right!

[OregonBlue]

16. Emailed CNN and Jesse Jackson Jr.

asked them to stop using the term and use "Victim" instead since that's what these poor people are. Emailed Jesse Jackson Jr. to ask him to comment on the use of the term by the MSM.

[onenote]

17. there is nothing inconsistent about being a refugee

and being a working, tax paying citizen of the US. They are refugees -- they have been driven from their homes and are seeking refuge.

onenote

[shance]

75. but there is something "separate but equal" in using it , or

prejudice.

Would you yourself like to be called a refugee?

[CarbonDate]

80. I woudn't want to be a refugee.

If I was, I wouldn't much care what people were calling me; all I'd want is some damn help.

[goodhue]

94. legal definition of refugee is someone outside country of nationality

http://uscis.gov/text/services/refugees/Definition.htm

The Refugee Act formally incorporated into U.S. law the international definition of refugee contained in the 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol. A refugee is defined as a person outside of his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

[Barack_America]

18. They ARE refugees...

...and they are refugees by any definition you care to use. They might not be fleeing from their government's persecution, but they are fleeing from it's incompetence... And to tell you what, I don't see much of a difference...

[seemslikeadream]

21. There is a big difference

They are not foreigners they are American citizens

[Barack_America]

30. Webster's says from home OR country...

...nothing to do with citizenship. That may be included in the common use of the word, but it's not in its true definition.

[MADem]

32. Shit, we are all refugees, if being persecuted by a cruel government

is the criteria...

[Pacifist Patriot]

51. Nope, you have to be fleeing to safety from the persecution and

unable to return to your home.

[shance]

72. THANK YOU MA DEM.

Well put***

[goodhue]

97. not refugees under legal international definition

http://uscis.gov/text/services/refugees/Definition.htm

The Refugee Act formally incorporated into U.S. law the international definition of refugee contained in the 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol. A refugee is defined as a person outside of his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

[jeffrey_X]

20. But they are! Maybe that will wake people the fuck up about

what is going on in this fucking country!!!

ref·u·gee (rĕf'yʊ-jç')
n.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.


I think we can fit these folks in the political oppression category.

[charlie]

22. No, they're refugees

Refugees in their own damn country, which makes their plight all the more trenchant.

[Zen Democrat]

24. I disagree. They are refugees. American refugees in America.

That's as damning to this government as anything can be.

And to be more to the point, the lucky ones are refugees. The people in the Astrodome are refugees. The people in the Superdome and Convention Center and on the highways have no refuge.

[peacebuzzard]

63. This may open up a new explanation for refugee.

Unbelievable that it has come to this.

So, in a sense, because these survivor citizens are being transported or, can be subject to displacement transfer to the fricking astrodome or superdome or other makeshift shelters we are now entering a new phrase into the American dictionary.....the American refugee.

Oh god, what a deplorable era in current events we are witnessing.

[goodhue]

99. not refugees under legal definition because not outside country

http://uscis.gov/text/services/refugees/Definition.htm

[peacebuzzard]

140. Legal terminology holds over Webster.

I was having trouble with the concept American refugee in our own country.
Good research.

[nonconformist]

27. It really hammers home the 3rd world nature of all this. nt

[Marr]

28. Thay are refugees- and they should be described that way.

If people are struck by the term and can't believe we could have refugees in the US, then they need to wake up. That's how bad things are.

[goodhue]

100. not refugees under legal definition because not outside country

http://uscis.gov/text/services/refugees/Definition.htm

[Taxloss]

29. They are refugees.

The majority of refugees worldwide are internal refugees, it doesn't lessen their plight or cheapen their status. The USA now has an internal refugee problem.

[Ravenseye]

31. No They Are Refugees and we NEED to use that word

You say some kind of BS like 'Displaced Americans' and most people will start blankly.

They are by defininition Refugees. They are seeking refuge. They aren't getting it. There is no negative stigma on a refugee and it doesn't automatically mean they aren't americans.

[shance]

84. No sir, they are VICTIMS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION is what they are.

Lets get the facts and the terminology straight.

[seemslikeadream]

33. To everyone that disagrees with this statement

It was a statement from of one of the members of the Black Caucus during the press conference on CSPAN this morning. When I watch the rerun I will be back to give credit where credit is do.

The connotation of the word refugee is the problem here. The problem is what Rush Limpballs Americans think the word means.

I will differ to the member of the Black Caucus

[CarbonDate]

60. I think you meant "defer"....

...but I will "differ" from the member of the Black Caucus.

I see where he's coming from, but I disagree. They are refugees, and I will continue calling them that.

[LoZoccolo]

34. Like we can't tell the difference between poltical and storm refugees.

More condescension from the "language is a virus" crowd.

[seemslikeadream]

35. Yea the Black Caucus crowd

[intheflow]

37. Displaced persons become refugees b/c of how long it will take to recover.

This folks may never have a home to go back to, meaning NOLA. As a nation I refuse to send them back into a toxic swamp after 6 months, if that's FEMA's plan. :eyes: I think we're talking a year, minimum. Not many local governments can absorb that many people. That's a crossing of borders, that's a refugee situation.

[dave502d]

40. Thank you seemslikeadream,I hate that to.

These people our CITIZENS of our country.

[seemslikeadream]

46. Using that word creates an image to bush's America

No one can tell me this is not the image lots of people see when the word refugee is used.




google it people see what you get, a picture is worth a thousand words

[satireV]

43. Should they be called "evacuees" instead?

I first saw this discussed on TV on Tuesday.

The reporter was flying high over New Orleans. He said he was going to use the term "refugee" because the scene reminded him more of a war zone from internecine conflicts in Africa than an "evacuee" scene from a hurricane ravaged Florida.

Side bar: If I had my druthers, I would give refugee status to Bush and Hastert and send them to Pitcairn Island. Then elect Kinky Friedman and Jim Hightower as POTUS and VEEP.

[Pacifist Patriot]

52. It's a simple distinction in my mind...

though I understand others disagree.

An evacuee can return home.

A refugee cannot.

[satireV]

77. And if Dennis Hastert had HIS way . . . .

. . . They could NOT return home.

thus they would be refugees.. :(

[xultar]

45. AMEN!

[iamjoy]

47. They ARE Refugees

but I don't associate any negative connotation with the refugee his/her self, I associate refugee with the country/area from which they came. It is a country/area that is unable or unwilling to provide the basic necessities for life for its people.

I call them refugees not to attach any shame to them, but to attach it to us.

[goodhue]

88. they are not, look it up . . .

they are not outside their county

[Roland99]

142. A refugee does NOT have to be fleeing from a country:

http://www.m-w.com

Main Entry: ref·u·gee
Pronunciation: "re-fyu-'jE, 're-fyu-"
Function: noun
Etymology: French réfugié, past participle of (se) réfugier to take refuge, from Latin refugium
: one that flees; especially : a person who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution

"especially"...meaning, more commonly. That doesn't mean 100% of the time.


They have fled their home and are seeking refuge elsewhere. This country is large and isn't like the small countries of Europe where a disaster can render a large portion of a single country a hazard zone requiring someone to flee to another country. Not so here.

[Pacifist Patriot]

50. The term refugee and citizen is not mutually exclusive although

conventional use a la the Geneva Convention would seem to imply otherwise. Refugees are people who flee to safety and cannot return home. It also connotes a group of people who are not being adequately cared for by their government. I can't imagine a more appropriate use of the term than what we are seeing now.

I use the term refugee to distinguish between those who have homes to which they can return (evacuees) and those who do not (refugees). It has nothing to do with demeaning them or denying them status, human rights or civil liberties. If anything it should highlight the desparation of the situation.

I'm comfortable with the way I am using language so I'd appreciate it if you would respect that.

[PittLib]

55. After reading all the responses to the OP ...

I think we can conclude that those who object to refugee are concerned with how the conservatives/Republicans or general public will interpret that word - what mental images it will conjure and if it will diminish the value and/or citizenship of these people. Those who feel that refugee is appropriate are considering the liberal response to the word - people who sympathize and believe in aiding those in need, and who do not see the word as denigrating. When I hear the word, I think of African people fleeing war lords, oppression and even genocide. It is my first experience with the word and has stuck, though I've learned of many other refugees since. I do understand both sides ... but we are arguing semantics.

[Pacifist Patriot]

58. True, but I'm finding the use of the word refugee is generating

a very powerful shift in thinking with my conservative and Republican contacts. It is jarring and thus far none have interpreted it to mean anything other than people who have lost everything, have nowhere to go and have a government too incompetent to assist them. It has a painful connotation that "evacuee" just cannot reach. I found it a helpful way to get the clueless to distinguish between what we went through in Florida last year and what the people of LA are facing now.

[goodhue]

102. I'm concerned with accuracy - they are not legally refugees

Because they are not outside their country of nationality.

[ray of light]

57. refugees or U.S. taxpayers works but don't let them just call them homeles

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. I've been thinking about that.

Technically, they are homeless and the statistics should realistically reflect that. But given the government's tendency to sweep homelessness under the rug....

[Alpharetta]

67. I don't have a problem with them being called homeless

I want to call Trent Lott homeless. Didn't his home get knocked down?

[Pacifist Patriot]

79. Doesn't count if you have vacation property somewhere else.

(I don't know if he does. It's just a guess.)

[seemslikeadream]

61. A member of the Black Caucus objected to the term refugee

I believe they should be shown some deference after all they were right about Haiti

[CarbonDate]

76. Words are words.

You can defer to one person's interpretation of those words if you like, but I will choose to defer to the dictionary definition.

Refugee stays.

[seemslikeadream]

87. You defer to FOX NEWS

and their imagery

[Liberal In Texas]

96. No. We defer to the English language.

[CarbonDate]

101. Get over yourself.

I think the imagery is wholly appropriate given how desperate their situation is. Are you implying that African refugees are somehow sub-human?

[seemslikeadream]

104. Now now no need to get personal CarbonDate

and you just proved my point, thanks! That's exactly how george bush thinks of African refugees


BUSH'S PLAN FOR PEACE IS THE PEACE OF THE COMMON GRAVE

EVERY DEATH CREATES NEW ENEMIES

MORE TERRORISTS

MORE DANGER

MORE DEATH

AND REMEMBER...

HE IS JUST GETTING STARTED...

BUSH'S PLAN FOR PEACE

IS THE PEACE OF THE COMMON GRAVE

http://www.bushflash.com/pax.html WATCH THIS VIDEO

"The George W. Bush Legacy"


Wumpscut
Totmacher

sie ahnten nichts von mir
von meiner wilden gier
doch als du kamst zu mir
da wurde ich ein tier
kein gedanke an danach
als ich dir die knochen brach

tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot

tot

fuer mein naechstes leben
schoepfe ich neue kraft
ich bin dem toeten ergeben
in der einzelhaft

tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot
tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot

ein dahinsichen
von gottes hand
ich kann dich riechen
und das denken verschwand

tot tot tot tot tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot tot tot tot tot

ich mache dich tot ich mache dich tot
ich mache dich tot ich mache dich tot

sag mir was du willst
dass du meine sehnsucht stillst
ich mache dich tot fuer immerdar
von blut alles rot auf gottes altar

tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot

ich mache dich tot fuer immerdar
ich mache dich tot glaub mir es ist wahr
ich mache dich tot fuer immerdar
ich mache dich tot auf gottes altar

[Octafish]

176. How telling.

Here's one of many posts indicating how seemslikeadream reacted when Aristide was overthrown for the second time, by people working for the second Bush:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1275185

Now THAT's profound.

[seemslikeadream]

177. Thank you so much

:hi:

[Carni]

62. Actually I think CNN is now calling them "Evacuees"

At least Miles O'Brien was all morning.

I also agree it is offensive to call these poor souls *refugees*

[CarbonDate]

86. It's offensive to *not* call them refugees.

It's what they are. To state otherwise is to sugar-coat how bad their situation is.

[Alpharetta]

65. I call B.S. Refugee is not a bad word

If they need refuge, they are refugees. They are not "displaced", "outstormed" or "de-NewOrleansed".

[shance]

93. Would you like to be called a refugee? It doesnt fit, does it?

Nor does it with New Orleans residents.

That is their home.

and they are not from another country. which the terminology has come to imply.

[Alpharetta]

109. I can picture myself as needing refuge

That would be a refugee

[spunky]

66. To say they are not refugees is to imply America is too good to have

refugees.

We shouldn't have refugees, but Americans are no more valuable or better than any other human life on the planet. I fail to see how displaced people in Niger, who fled their homes due to a natural disaster (famine/drought) are any different than Americans who must flee their homes due to a natural disaster (hurricane/flooding). We called them refugees. But oh, Americans are too precious to be called what any other person in any other country would be called. BS.

Quite honestly, this is not the place I expect to see people acting like American lives are more valuable than the lives of any desperate people anywhere in the world.

They are refugees. They may not be seeking refuge in other nations, but they are asking other states to take them in. They have nowhere to go. What else can you call them?



refugee

n : an exile who flees for safety

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

[seemslikeadream]

71. This is the picture Americans have of refugees

Fox is using the word refugee CNN is using the word evacuees

[CarbonDate]

91. You're right, these people apparently have food.

The people in New Orleans don't. Other than that, I don't see a difference.

[seemslikeadream]

105. I wonder where that food came from?

Another country, maybe?

Google image refugee

If ya see anyone from Louisiana let me know, will ya please?

[jus_the_facts]

128. here's one for ya.....

.....put whatever fuckin' lable on it you want...it still is what it is regardless of what word you would like to use to discribe it.



"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."
Friday, September 2, 2005; 7:23 AM

NEW ORLEANS -- An explosion jolted residents awake early Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over the city where corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts.

Congress was rushing through a $10.5 billion aid package, the Pentagon promised 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting and President Bush planned to visit the region. But city officials were seething with anger about what they called a slow federal response following the devastation left by Hurricane Katrina.



A SWAT team drives past flood victims waiting at the Convention Center in New Orleans, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005. Officials called for a mandatory evacuation of the city, but many resident remained in the city and had to be rescued from flooded homes and hotels and remain in the city awaiting a way out. (AP Photo/Eric Gay) (Eric Gay - AP)
"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

[sadiesworld]

124. "Americans" may not be "more valuable or better than any other

human life on the planet", but as taxpaying citizens we have every right to expect that our elected representatives put us at the top of their list of priorities. It's a pretty fundamental democratic concept. Of course, those who prefer global corporate rule regularly seek to blur these distinctions.

[goodhue]

69. Amen. They are VICTIMS!

[Taxloss]

83. And other refugees aren't? nt

[proud patriot]

70. They are Our people they are Americans

They are survivors

[Swede]

73. What is wrong with calling refugees refugees?

I don't think there is a negative context to this term.

[goodhue]

81. dignity

http://blogs.chron.com/domeblog/

In the midst of all this, Bryant says, the evacuees are trying to keep their dignity. Many object to the term "refugee," including 52-year-old Ina Duncan:

"We are only victims of Hurricane Katrina. I was born at Charity Hospital. We are not refugees. We are taxpayers. We are victims of the hurricane and we are having a crisis."

[goodhue]

85. definition

http://uscis.gov/text/services/refugees/Definition.htm

The Refugee Act formally incorporated into U.S. law the international definition of refugee contained in the 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol. A refugee is defined as a person outside of his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

[Sgent]

74. Probably the best

word is the Louisiana Disporia.

Unfortunately, many don't know what disporia means...

[Alpharetta]

117. Or how to spell it

:)
diaspora
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=diaspora

[seemslikeadream]

78. FOX NEWS - REFUGEES ******* CNN - EVACUEES

I wonder why?

IMAGE?

[CarbonDate]

95. Your thinking is too simplistic.

CNN is no better than FOX.

[seemslikeadream]

108. Simplistic is the word CarbonDate

keep it simple for the masses REFUGEE

[Cleita]

92. They are refugees whether citizens, taxpayers or not.

They have lost their homes and have had to leave to go to other places. They don't have anything but the clothes on their backs and are dependent on the kindness of strangers. That, my friend, is a refugee.

[Swamp Rat]

98. I sure feel like a refugee

But I understand your point. :hug:

[RandomKoolzip]

103. Who gives a shit?

Does this even matter?

How very "Mid-90's Campus Identity Politics" of us to be arguing semantics in a time of crisis.

[seemslikeadream]

106. A member of The Black Caucus said this not

"Mid-90's Campus Identity Politics

[goodhue]

107. They do

http://blogs.chron.com/domeblog/

In the midst of all this, Bryant says, the evacuees are trying to keep their dignity. Many object to the term "refugee," including 52-year-old Ina Duncan:

"We are only victims of Hurricane Katrina. I was born at Charity Hospital. We are not refugees. We are taxpayers. We are victims of the hurricane and we are having a crisis."

[Alpharetta]

110. When dissent is outlawed, I'll be a refugee

[BiggJawn]

111. Oh, go get another Latte Grande...

You sound like a "Limosine Liberal".

[seemslikeadream]

112. Too bad because it was a member of the Black Caucus that said it

Are you calling a member of the Black Caucus a "Limosine Liberal"

[goodhue]

116. Indeed

Here is a link to account . . .

http://www.startribune.com/stories/125/5593643.html

Last update: September 2, 2005 at 12:39 PM

Black lawmakers angry about federal response to disaster

Associated Press

September 2, 2005

WASHINGTON — Black members of Congress expressed anger Friday at what they said was a slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

"It looks dysfunctional to me right now,'' said Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif.

* * *

Watson and others also took issue with the word "refugee'' being used to describe hurricane victims.

"'Refugee' calls up to mind people that come from different lands and have to be taken care of. These are American citizens,'' Watson said.

Added Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md.: "They are not refugees. I hate that word.''

[seemslikeadream]

118. THANK YOU SO MUCH

I was looking for a link


:hi:

[goodhue]

126. no problem

[goodhue]

136. Here is another link with quote from Rep. Kilpatrick

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9176113/

Attack of use of the term 'refugees'

“The people are not ‘refugees’ — they are American citizens, they pay taxes, they raise their families... and I wish the media would call them American citizens and not refugees which relegates them to another whole status,” said Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, D-Mich.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9176113/

[seemslikeadream]

139. Thanks again goodhue

The Black Caucus are such incredible people, I love them all so much.

[LibertyorDeath]

144. Bravo Kilpatrick

"The people are not ‘refugees’ — they are American citizens, they pay taxes, they raise their families... and I wish the media would call them American citizens and not refugees which relegates them to another whole status,” said Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, D-Mich.

To those here who do not understand the negative connotation
that goes with the term refugees all I can say is WTF

[seemslikeadream]

120. Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md.: "They are not refugees. I hate that word.

Here is a link to account . . .

http://www.startribune.com/stories/125/5593643.html

Last update: September 2, 2005 at 12:39 PM

Black lawmakers angry about federal response to disaster

Associated Press

September 2, 2005

WASHINGTON — Black members of Congress expressed anger Friday at what they said was a slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

"It looks dysfunctional to me right now,'' said Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif.

* * *

Watson and others also took issue with the word "refugee'' being used to describe hurricane victims.

"'Refugee' calls up to mind people that come from different lands and have to be taken care of. These are American citizens,'' Watson said.

Added Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md.: "They are not refugees. I hate that word.''

[Alpharetta]

114. The problem is not a word. The problem is the way they've been treated

It's sad.

They are so sick of being treated like 2nd class citizens, they don't want any label that is also applied to non-citizens.

It's completely understandable. But that doesn't mean they're not refugees.

[Igel]

119. I suggest people stop handing their language over to lawyers.

It's a very poor practice.

They want refuge. They are refugees. That we've had so few in recent decades may allow us to abduce that the term properly only refers to non-Americans; that the term has acquired a technical definition in some areas of the law may entice some people to presume that the term must, therefore, only allow that meaning.

They're idiots.

Oops. Can't call them that: it implies they fall in a specific interval in IQ, which is itself a dangerous term to use.

Morons? Nope, that also has a technical definition.

Maybe jerks? But 'jerk' has a specific meaning wrt food. So that's ruled out.

Damn. "Rule out" may have a specific legal meaning somewhere. Gotta check to make sure I'm speaking my own native language and some Congressperson 20 years ago didn't define the term out from under me.

Language fascists. They keep showing up, and they keep ignoring linguists.

[seemslikeadream]

121. You are calling Rep. Elijah Cummings a language fascist?

[Igel]

165. If he is commanding me to ignore

the last few hundred years of English language usage because he has his personal definition, yes: he's as much an authority on English, at best, as I am.

He was not elected to be the Royal Prescriptivist; he has usurped that role, unfilled for the most part in English since the 1600s (save for some benighted grammarians who confused English with Latin for a while, and whose edicts modern day grammarians have labored long and hard to remove from the grammar books).

[seemslikeadream]

167. He speaks for the Black people of this country

I don't think the people watching Fox News would have a clue as to what your are talking about

[goodhue]

122. You seem to ignore the racial prejudice at play

The folks complaining are black folks improperly labeled. Calling them idiots, morons, jerks, and facists certainly doesn't help.

[Igel]

166. The black people, and the white people, and the yellow people,

and any people that for reasons of chemical contamination are green or purple and which have fled Katrina, are refugees.

I am not calling the blacks refugees any more than I am calling the whites refugees.

We have over 200k refugees from Katrina in Texas. Most fled in their own vehicles. Some did not.

I am not calling the people trapped in NOLA idiots or fascists. I am calling those who presume to unilaterally dictate a linguistic change to the English speaking community fascists and idiots.

I wrote this before I knew the race of those involved with the promulgation of the edict. I see no reason, on the basis of knowing their race now, to change my mind. Perhaps if I had known their race ahead of time I would have been more sensitive to it; but altering what I think of them based upon knowledge of their race would seem a bit hypocritical.

[seemslikeadream]

169. Are you saying you did not know the race of the people of New Orleans?

[Igel]

178. Yes, it's 67% black,

and about 32% white.

With a smattering of Asian and Latino.

And all of those that have left are refugees.

Explain how that means 'refugee' is applied only to blacks. I count a good 130k (or so) whites in the mix.

And I find no word to replace it that isn't bureaucratic legalese.

[seemslikeadream]

179. Jesse Jackson said on Lou Dobbs tonight

They are American citizens NOT refugees

[ElectroPrincess]

129. We all KNOW what image the term "refugee" conjures up ...

No, it's not wrong to insist that we call these people what they are = Fellow AMERICANS!

[Igel]

168. It calls up images of people seeking refuge.

Does it uniquely call up brown-skinned folk for you?

Why would that be?

[mshasta]

127. A Refugee is a political prisoner.

maybe is correct they are running away from a tyranny.....

[rob10000]

132. Splitting hairs.

While most definaions include a referance to being outside your country, many plainly omit that requirement..

type "define:refugee" into google...

...one who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, environmental destruction, or religious persecution...

...A person who flees for safety or refuge, especially to a foreign country....

[Malikshah]

130. Good god, folks-- get over your damn selves

with this bs over semantics.

folks are dying.

And you all argue over what to call them?

is it any wonder that the neocons deride us?

[seemslikeadream]

133. I'll send your regards to the Black Caucus

[jus_the_facts]

131. mere fucking words are moot at this point wouldn't you agree...

.....put whatever fuckin' lable on it you want...it still is what it is regardless of what word you would like to use to discribe it.



"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."
Friday, September 2, 2005; 7:23 AM

NEW ORLEANS -- An explosion jolted residents awake early Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over the city where corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts.

Congress was rushing through a $10.5 billion aid package, the Pentagon promised 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting and President Bush planned to visit the region. But city officials were seething with anger about what they called a slow federal response following the devastation left by Hurricane Katrina.



A SWAT team drives past flood victims waiting at the Convention Center in New Orleans, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005. Officials called for a mandatory evacuation of the city, but many resident remained in the city and had to be rescued from flooded homes and hotels and remain in the city awaiting a way out. (AP Photo/Eric Gay) (Eric Gay - AP)
"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20 ...

[LaPera]

134. Kick!

[goodhue]

135. kick

[allalone]

137. a refugee is someone seeking refuge

what dictionary describes them as foreign? these are people seeking refuge from the storm. Orphans of the storm as it were.

[goodhue]

138. Dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=refugee

3 entries found for refugee.

***********************************************************

ref·u·gee ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rfy-j)
n.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

***********************************************************

Main Entry: ref·u·gee
Pronunciation: "re-fyu-'jE
Function: noun
: an individual seeking refuge or asylum; especially : an individual who has left his or her native country and is unwilling or unable to return to it because of persecution or fear of persecution (as because of race, religion, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion)

Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

*************************************************************

refugee

n : an exile who flees for safety

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

[LibertyorDeath]

143. Hi I was all over this the millisecond I heard the term used

I email blasted to no avail.

America has experienced many natural disasters
and I can not recall from personal memory every hearing
this term used in reference to those who survive the disaster.

Victims- Yes
Survivors-Yes
Displaced-Yes

REFUGEES- Never have I heard this term used in reference to American
disaster survivors.

It's for a very calculated reason.

Good catch & good post

[beetbox]

145. kicked

Looters had been wandering the area, and her eyes were wide with fear. She stopped near a boarded-up house with graffiti that read: "Looters will be shot. Bush sucks. Where's FEMA!"

"I feel the end has come," Boza said. "The end of the world, the end of decency and integrity. I'm terrified. I really am. I feel like the whole world has gone nuts."

[cynatnite]

146. Scream it from the rooftops: They are refugees!

It goes to the sad state of affairs in this country and if it helps wake more people up the better. This should never have happened and everyone knows it.

Refugees were always people in a foriegn country. But now, we have them here. Thanks, Georgie.

[zwielicht]

147. I think it's alarming that "refugee" seems to have become an insult

i mean, :wtf:

[HEyHEY]

153. I think the OP could be considered arrogant

The message seems to be "Americans are to good to be called refugees"

[zwielicht]

155. self-deleted

:silly:²

and 'm really concerned about whats going on in your great(sic) "nation", more than most "politics" in "mine"

I feel with you all, especially the harmed, hard times ahead :pals:

[seemslikeadream]

156. Then you are calling the Black Caucus arrogant

It's their words, their feeling

posts 116 and 136

[HEyHEY]

159. No I'm not...I said it could be considered arrogant

And again... are americans too good to be refugees? You're shitting on refugees when you do this.

[seemslikeadream]

160. It is the opinion of the Black Caucus

and I agree with them

[HEyHEY]

161. Fair enough

[clover]

148. anyone for SURVIVORS? nt

[zwielicht]

158. Subject field must not be blank

[Imagevision]

170. Try American residents from New Orleans...!

[countingbluecars]

149. I heard both Stephanie Tubbs Jones

and Jesse Jackson object to the media's use of the word "refugee" today while they were being interviewed. I think they speak for many people, and I think the media should respect that.

[NorthernSpy]

150. they ARE refugees! Bush and Blanco made them that!

They ARE refugees, like millions of other people around the globe. All of them screwed over by some shitty government.

[HEyHEY]

151. They are fleeing a terrible circumstance - calling refugees

Can be debated as often you don't hear that term used to describe victims of natural disaster abroad. But on the other hand they are fleeing a dangerous circumstance and seeking refuge. I think the press is just trying to add drama to it.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DistressedAmerican]

157. No! They Are American Refugees. Not Mutually Exclusive.

Claims that they are mutually exclusive concepts seem to have no such problem refering to Haitian and Sudanese refugeees. I suspect that is a severe case of ETHNOCENTRISM!

This whole argument is fucking stupid! Spend your time dealing with the situation instead of arguing semantics. Fucking pointless!

[Guaranteed]

180. That's right.

And totally agreed that this whole thing is ridiculous.

[seemslikeadream]

164. The former mayor of New Orleans feels the same way

Meet The Press Sunday Marc Morial


President and CEO of National Urban League


"They are not refugees, these are not refugees lets not refer to them as refugees"

[Igel]

172. So he's saying the the 400k people that fled

NOLA aren't refugees. That means they're not seeking refuge. If they don't ask, why should we offer it?

Those that left Saturday are survivors? Of what? Bad traffic? Airport congestion?

Black Caucus says 'boo!' concerning something beyond their ken, and everybody jumps in lockstep.

[seemslikeadream]

175. I hardly think everybody is jumping to lockstep