Rush's criminal liability: possible sentencing

[Stupdworld]

Ok. Rush was attempting to buy potentially thousands of pills of Oxycontin. Oxycontin is Oxycodone Hydrochloride.

FL Stat. 893.135(1)(c) states:

Any person who knowingly sells, purchases, manufactures, delivers, or brings into this state, or who is knowingly in actual or constructive possession of, 4 grams or more of any morphine, opium, oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, or any salt, derivative, isomer, or salt of an isomer thereof, including heroin, as described in s. 893.03(1)(b), (2)(a), (3)(c)3., or (3)(c)4., or 4 grams or more of any mixture containing any such substance, but less than 30 kilograms of such substance or mixture, commits a felony of the first degree, which felony shall be known as "trafficking in illegal drugs," punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. If the quantity involved:

a. Is 4 grams or more, but less than 14 grams, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 3 years, and the defendant shall be ordered to pay a fine of $ 50,000.

b. Is 14 grams or more, but less than 28 grams, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 15 years, and the defendant shall be ordered to pay a fine of $ 100,000.

c. Is 28 grams or more, but less than 30 kilograms, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 25 calendar years and pay a fine of $ 500,000.


This applies to illicit trafficking, not obtaining from a licensed pharmacist. I don't know how many mg each pill contains. But if Rush has bought "thousands" of them, he might qualify for subsection b.

These are mandatory minimums meaning Rush MUST get at least 3 years if convicted. Although we all know about Noelle Bush getting special treatment, this is what the law says.

the 50 thousand is nothing to him. the three years will more than likely end his radio program. I am a fairly moderate guy, but as an aspiring prosecutor, the law is the law. I would recommend any first time conviction for trafficking without resale include some type of rehab. But Rush has rumored to have visited rehab many times. Maybe prison time will serve him better.

[wuushew]

1. Was he in Florida at the time?

Good luck with the Florida justice system

[Stupdworld]

2. WPB

I believe it was at his home in West Palm

[TroubleMan]

4. Same town as me

West Palm Beach, FL

Except he lives in the really rich part...Palm Beach. He broadcasts his show from his house (maybe he was high on the show too?).

Also, isn't possession of a large amount considered intent to distribute?

[Stupdworld]

6. heh

ill be in west palm tomorrow actually. Get to see the Marlins game tomorrow night, and Radiohead (!) the night after. Helluva weekend. Then I gotta truck on back to tampa and finish law school

but while im in wpb ill keep an eye out for a wild eyed balding ridiculous white male "hepped up on goofballs"

[hexola]

19. Just like a junkie...

Stay at home...avoid scrutiny/contact with society...I never thought of that angle - he did the show at home because he was a junkie...

[Anus Retainus]

3. Didn't Johnny A$$croft just start toughing up enforcement of MMS?

Mandatory Minimum Sentencing?

[E_Zapata]

5. Surely Rush stands by his former statements - "lock 'em up"

The gram amount should be easy.

Let's say he got 100 pills at 20 mg each in one delivery (cause it isn't a total over time; it's the actual possession at one time). That's 2000 mg OR 2 grams.

So, if Rush got 4000 pills over 47 days -- that's about 85 pills a day

"OxyContin comes in 10mg, 20mg, 40mg, and 80mg tablets. Eighty milligram tablets are only recommended for opioid tolerant patients."

So, what dosage do you think Rush was getting? 10, 20, 80 mg? I bet most street stuff is in the lower dosages since those getting it for the black market would probably get lower dosages easier than higher dosages. I guess.


-----It just dawned on me. If Rush were to get McNabbed by law enforcement, this 'leak' of the story absolutely nullified criminal consequences. The cops would have had to raid his house and find the drugs.

I think someone basically got Rush off the hook.

-- but an GOOD consequence is the fact that Rush is now unexpectedly unable to get and use the drugs. He is in for some pretty fierce detox days. If you are taking anything over 60mg per day, you are supposed to taper off the stuff.

He is going to have to go into treatment just to survive this -- or go out to the streets to get his own drugs. Maybe that's why he was in Philadelphia?

[TroubleMan]

7. Not really

Both "Intent To Commit" and "Conspiracy to Commit" carry the same penalty as if you actually did it. You can just plan a crime with somebody and not do it, but if you're on tape, then you can (and often do) get as much jail time.

And they are much easier to prove.

[E_Zapata]

10. Good!!!

Well, Rush can just tell us about the need for prison and sentence reform for poor addicts when he gets out, if he gets out.

[Stupdworld]

11. More the merrier - more counts, double the fun!

multiple counts. Hey why not go for the actual charge, and include the conspiracy with intent stuff? Get as many charges and see what sticks!

[TroubleMan]

13. In reality, that's what they do to poor people who face these charges...

They hit them with doing it, conspiracy of doing it, and making a false statement (when you told the cops you didn't do it).

That way you have a maximum sentence of like 100 years. Not only does it make it tough for you to post bail (more years facing = higher bail), but it makes them look better when they try to plea bargain with you.

Prosecutors intentionally do this to get poor people to plea bargain. A lot of guys in jail won't risk going in with a public defender versus that many years. Therefore they plea to one lesser sentence (even when it's obvious they were innocent). Not only that this makes the bail so high, that they can't meet it. So they if they plead not guilty, they have to sit in jail for months waiting on the trial (sometimes over a year).

That's one of the tricks of the justice system - you're guilty until proven rich.

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. but will they? this article says

"Whether State Attorney Barry Krischer is interested in prosecuting Limbaugh isn't known. But prosecutors rarely pursue drug addicts unless they catch them with drugs. "

so it could be a matter of prosecutorial discretion. it would be interesting to see arrest stats for similar conditions, as in the defendant is not 'caught with the goods".

i just heard someone on a call in show say FL law calls wiretapping a felony and it includes taping face to face conversations so that means the tapes themselves and maybe anything learned as a result of the tapes (fruit of the poisoned tree)would be inadmissable in court.

i think that means the prosecutor would have to somehow prove that they would have acquired evidence on rush without the tapes. that's a toughie.

i think i'm going to listen to rush today. i doubt he'll deal with it though. i'll be surpised if he isn't in rehab on lawyer's advice.

[Stupdworld]

9. admittedly

the cops may actually have to find more evidence than a wiretap, but the leak of the story means nothing. The wiretap was more than likely part of an investigation.

Im going on the "maid was nabbed and flipped on rush" angle.
She is caught or arrested selling drugs. She agrees to name purchasers and sellers. big names. hey, cops love getting big name perps right? or has lenny briscoe taught me wrong all these years?
They set her up with a wire, she gets rush on tape. they probably end up with prob cause to get a warrant to search his house.
Rush might flush the pills, or maybe it is possible to find other evidence of excessive spending (indicating an expensive habit)

All I am saying is that this is part of an ongoing investigation. Wait and see. The situation is rife with possibilities!


PS thx for the lowdown on Oxycontin dosages

[hexola]

25. The problem with that is...

They have not explicity said the maid was working for the police...

They have said "she turned the tapes over to the authourities..." - which says to me that she was working on her own...

Picture this scenario:

Maid gets caught in non-Limbaugh drug bust.
Maid asks Limbaugh to help with legal fees.
Limbaugh refuses.
Maid spitefully sets Limbaugh up - sells story to National Enquirer.

[Abe Linkman]

8. Why prison? Why should what you eat be a crime?

Go ahead, prosecutor. (no dodging by saying "it's the law ... the question is a simple one.)

[Stupdworld]

12. Simple - separation of powers

I would be simply enforcing the laws as promulgated by the legislature. As a prosecutor, I charge offenders, and try to make it stick.


But to get at what youre really saying, I think the government has a legitimate state interest to control dangerous substances. Oxycontin is an oxycodone derivative, and is not only habit forming, but very dangerous. It isnt like marijuana. MJ can be smoked and eaten and ingested in all sorts of ways, with very little medical consequences. Oxycontin should only be acquired by legitimate means (doctor's prescription + licenses pharmacist) Its unchecked consumption has been documented to have fatal results.

[Abe Linkman]

14. Lots of things are potentially "dangerous"

That's no reason to criminalize them. White bread, fried foods, sugar, shopping, cars, knives, clorox, greed, resentment, sloth, and on and on.

"Oxycontin should only be acquired by legitimate means" ... that's your opinion. I think prosecutors should only be allowed in court after they've sworn to only seek justice, not convictions. Besides, once you know the facts about Oxycontin, you find that it's really a stretch to call it dangerous. Nearly every single death supposedly attributed to it was found to have been caused by a combination of things; not just Oxycontin.

Besides all of which - why would you want to lock someone up for something they ate? Using that reasoning, a more enlightened law might forbid watching TV or listening to hate radio, or playing violent video games, or reading certain books, or having a car that can go more than 3o miles an hour, or owning a kitchen knife, or alcohol, cigars, caffeine, or even NOT exercising regularly.

It's a very slippery slope when you decide to criminalize anything that doesn't cause harm to another person or property.

[TroubleMan]

15. I believe in the decriminalization of drugs....but

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?hypocr01.wav=hypocrisy

I also don't believe in hypocrisy. They do now, and always have slammed the poor as hard as they can on any drug charges, but if you're rich, you often get a pass.

Therefore, I believe Rush should be slammed just as hard. Especially since he's a vocal promoter of these laws and has a large audience.

[Stupdworld]

16. hm

but manufactured drugs, illegitimately acquired, in the hands of anyone who wants them and may in fact be addicted to them, is quite more imminently dangerous than white bread or steak or beer.
The dangerousness of oxycontin lies in the potential for overdose, etc. esp. for those who are addicted to it.
why do you think these things are controlled?
we are not locking them up for something they ate, we are locking them up because they are part of an illicit process that allows for potentially dangerous substances to be distributed irresponsibly.

to use your analogies, should we therefore not criminalize the unlicensed possession of radioactive materials? how are these things acquired?

ah. to compare oxycodone derivatives to radioactive material is excessive, but in the same vein, so is comparing sloth and greed to oxycodone as well.


as per "enlightenment"
if you can outlaw listening to "hate radio" under the constitution as it exists today, more power to you. I don't believe in telling people what they should be allowed to listen to. And yes, there is a much more direct causality and much greater danger than allowing the unlicensed consumption of manufactured medicines than listening to Rush Limbaugh, et al.

btw the canons guide prosecutor conduct i do believe. if you can get the supreme court of your jurisdiction to add an oath to uphold "justice" and not be concerned about win totals, go for it. Also if you want to decriminalize everything that people "eat," go ahead and get elected to the legislature of your state. If you can get the people of your jurisdiction to go along with your reasoning, I owe you a coke. (drink)

[Caution]

22. more dangerous than beer?

Check your facts. Alcohol kills nearly 100,000 people in this country each year. ALL illegal drugs kill 3,000 people each year. Which is more dangerous? Don't even get me started on tobacco (300,000).

[Junkdrawer]

17. Try 25 years...

He had, by reports, thousands if not tens of thousands of these pills in his possession. Any other human being on the planet would be in rehab now on the advice of attorney. But Rusty is going to do THREE HOURS LIVE??? :wtf:

[TAH6988]

24. Did they actually

see them in his possession, or arrest him with them in his possession. Was this evidence seized? Rush is gonna walk.

[Junkdrawer]

27. That's just it - no one except the authorities knows what "they" have....

There was a statement that said "they're investigating traffickers, not users" and everyone assumed that left El Rushbo off the hook. -- BUT under Florida law, if he bought at the level he's rumored to, he is a trafficker.

[TAH6988]

32. Seems that way

But we still don't know the facts. I'm willing to bet he walks.

[GinaMaria]

18. Manditory Minimums

will it be in a Florida state prison or a Federal prison? Who's investigation was it? Will they seize his home like they do to pot smokers? I'm curious to see how the law gets applied to Rush as opposed to you or me. I don't see him doing well in prison.

[Caution]

23. most likely state

unless they can show inter-state trafficking in this case it will stay in the hands of the locals

[TAH6988]

26. If he got rid

of the pills, he won't be going to prison. No pills, no evidence, no conviction.

[GinaMaria]

28. Didn't they seize

all drugs? Did they give him a chance to destroy evidence?

[TAH6988]

30. Don't know...

Have not read anything about them seizing anything, yet. Have you?

[bearfartinthewoods]

35. nothing at all.

they may have planned a raid but the maid selling the story to the paper has cetainly tipped him off. i'm sur[rised he hasn't dried up the aquifer with all that flushing.

[NoKingGeorge]

34. States Attorney General and free passes

They gave Jebs' daughter a pass, how many does the AG have left to hand out?
The amount of the drugs (who takes 85 pills a day?), the police setting the maid up with a wire, priors (Jeff Chritie?), He was not the target but swept up in a huge sweep (indicates other low lifes with knowledge), indicate that he will lose everything and do time.
Even Clear Channel cannot afford the association, sponsers ? forgetabouit, Assman, the puppet masters are sliming and denying at full speed so they will not risk lending some shadow support.

Bye bye ignorant,anti-American scum bag.

[Blue_Chill]

20. Can I get a link to this story?

I haven't seen ANYTHING about this anywhere. Hook me up!

[rocktivity]

33. Here's a link to the New York Daily News Story

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kr/20031002/lo_krnewyork/rushlimbaughinpillprobe


rocknation

[Terran]

29. It sounds like his violation

is much more extensive than Noelle Bush's, and so he should receive a commensurately harsher punishment. All she did was forge a couple of prescriptions, and they were for a Class 4 drug, Xanax. This is a Class 2 (the most strictly rtegulated class next to Class 1 illegals (marijuana, LSD, etc.). He must have initiated multiple buys to have gotten so many, and was in possession of far more than he could personally use. The circumstances are much more serious than they were in Noelle Bush's case.

[bearfartinthewoods]

36. errrr.....has anyone considered that he hasn't actually been "caught" .

unless they find drugs on him, how has he been caught, in the legal sense? i don't get it. maybe a case for conspriacy to buy but i don't see any other charges possible with no possession proved.

[Bandit]

31. So far as I know he hasn't been caught with anything in his possession

It is all accusations so far. Any good lawyer should be able to shred this case to pieces without any drugs as evidence. Just my $.02 worth.