What is the big deal about closing the levees, draining the water

[DoYouEverWonder]

and letting the people go home or at least back to whatever is left of their homes?

Why are we treating a whole population like criminals rather then victims of a terrible disaster.

This is ridiculous.

Gov. Blanco needs to take back control from Rummie and kick his ass out of the way. Disaster relief is supposed to be an humanitarian operation not a military operation.

[Kni7es]

1. Definition Priority

With the right spin on the "vioent looting and anarchy," it turned into a security problem, which overrules a humanitarian problem.

The question that is asked and answered in this case is, "Does a straight beat a flush?"

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. The first words out of Bush's mouth about the Superdome

was that "We have secured the Superdome". WTF is that supposed to mean? Securing property was his first priority, he could care less about the people. Slimeball.

[Extend a Hand]

2. I think

they're worried about all the sh*t that leached into the water from God only knows where. No telling what type of contaminants were stored and flooded and could have permeated everything. I'd be afraid to move back in anytime soom.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Places flood all the time

and people always return as soon as the water recedes. Besides they've been exposed to a lot of these toxins all their lives. I'll worry about cancer after everyone gets settle down again.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. Most of the city is below sea level....it will take at least 3-6 months...

...to repair the levees and then drain the water in New Orleans.

Then, they will have to ascertain which structures are still usable, and which ones will have to be completely razed and rebuilt. That will take another 6 months to a year.

And finally, the reconstruction will take place. That will take about 3-5 years under the best of conditions.

[maine_raptor]

7. Sounds right

and don't forget toxic mold blooms once the water recedes and everything starts drying out.

A majority of homes condemned after a flood are declared such because of the mold.

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. All those houses already had mold

New Orleans has flooded before and a lot of those houses are still standing.

Give me a break.

[BootinUp]

3. Here's a thought

Its just about money and who is in control of spending it on the relief effort. I am starting to think that is what it comes down to. Its what drives repukes afterall.

[meganmonkey]

17. Which is maybe why they are hampering the aid efforts of nonprofits

- since there is no profit to be made by bush & his cronies if the nonprofits are doing the job...?

Interesting line of thought...

:shrug:

[Kenroy]

5. The big deal?!

Are you serious?

It will take at least another week (or more) to close the levees.

It will take 30 to 90 days to drain the city, after which it will be a toxic nightmare. The houses themselves, after sitting under water for all that time, will be severely unstable, and likely to collapse at the slightest bump.

It will be YEARS before the city is habitable.

On edit: There will also be no electricity, no clean water, no sanitation system.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Bull, we can do it a lot faster then that if we put our minds to it.

All we are doing is making a big pile of dirt and debris. We can make it look pretty later.

Getting the water out could be done a lot faster if we put our minds to it to. Once the levee is closed a certain amount of water will flow out anyway.

Please, we can do this. Quit trying to figure our reasons why we can't. It's not constructive.

[Kenroy]

14. Sorry

you're just wrong.

The very BEST estimates say it will take 30 days to drain the city.

Then... the toxic nightmare. You think we can fix that in a week?

Then... the houses will be unsafe. VERY VERY unsafe.

This is not a matter of just "putting our minds to it". The very BEST minds working on this are saying all of this.

Address the issues I raised and how they can be solved quickly - THAT would be constructive.

[maine_raptor]

15. WTF?????

"Once the levee is closed a certain amount of water will flow out anyway."

Ah, excuse me, but you do know that:

1) New Orleans is BELOW sea level and;

2) Water flows DOWNHILL.

[EST]

106. Good point. It does seem a bit strange to have to point that out,

doesn't it?
For the benefit of the hydraulitally challenged -- The five rules of plumbing --

1. The boss is a sumbitch
2. Payday's on Friday
3. Hot's on the left, cold's on the right
4. Shit runs downhill (wide applicability on this)
5. Don't bite your fingernails

[mondo joe]

25. Since when does water flow UP? Basic physics: put your mind to it. n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. Why are you posting this nonsense? Do you have ANY idea how....

...difficult reclaiming New Orleans will be?

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Yes

but its seems a lot of people like you don't want to.

BTW: Have you ever been to NO? NO has flooded before. The people went back to what was left of their homes and rebuilt. This is their land, it's up to them to figure out what to do.

[Kenroy]

48. It has never flooded like this

You simply do not understand the enormity of this problem.

And the people you're watching on TV right now, for the most part, do not own any land in New Orleans.

[DoYouEverWonder]

63. That is the real answer

the people we are seeing on TV don't own that land. They are renters and they are never going to be allowed back.

But you would be surprised. A lot of people do own their own shootgun shacks and us white folks don't want to give them back. That is what this is all about.

[Kenroy]

67. no

it's about the largest reclamation effort in human history, and you think it can be done in a week. You do not understand the problem.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

77. Yes. I've been to New Orleans...the last time was this past January....

...and yes, the city has flooded before but not nearly to this extent. Haven't you heard the phrase "worst-case scenario" being used about the current situation?

Based on the content of the rest of your posts in this thread, it's clear to me and many others that you have no clue what's really going on in that city, and what it's going to take to rebuild it so people can live in it.

[rustydad]

118. Agreed

Most of NO is stick frame wood construction. Ever see what happened to the homes flooded in the big flood on the upper Mississippi back a few years. The houses, if they can be saved, have to be gutted up to at least the highest level of flooding. The have to be dried out and in the NO humidity it is a huge problem. Then there is the infrastructure, plumbing, wiring, gas, phone, etc. My guess is that it will be years before any normalcy returns. Thousands of homes will be razed. Just imagine dealing with all the vehicles destroyed, all the putrefied food, the rotten furniture, the dead bodies of humans and animals. It might have been better if the town had burned to the ground, at least the cleanup would be easier. Only in Holland has such a flooding ever occurred to a modern city. Bob

[jmowreader]

121. Drying out and rebuilding these homes will, in many instances...

be the wrong thing to do.

Let's assume you wanted to save the house you live in. If it's a wood-frame home, you'll need to tear off all the drywall, tear out all the insulation, remove the siding and sheathing, tear off the roof deck and the shingles, tear up the flooring right down to the joists, and of course remove and haul away all the items in the home. Then let it sit for a year and a half (wood dries at the rate of one year per inch of thickness, and framing lumber has been 1-1/2" thick ever since the end of World War II) to get back to equilibrium moisture content, kill all the mold and mildew that's collected on the lumber in that 18-month period, and finally reinstall new everything.

It will be cheaper, quicker and easier to bulldoze the homes, load them into dump trucks with front-end loaders, and start from scratch.

If you know how to build a house and want to make a LOT of money, wait five months and get to Louisiana.

[kittykitty]

8. Old wood houses standing in sewage contaminated water up to the roof

--water full of chemicals and who knows what toxic waste. Wood swells when wet. The houses will be full of rotted sludge, and will be structurally unsound.

[newblewtoo]

110. YUM

Thanks for that image <...not...>

[meisje]

9. Anything build out of wood will have to be removed-

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. A falling down shack

is better then nothing at the moment. You should see how people live in the 3rd world. Everntually we can tear down stuff and rebuild. People have been living under blue tarps in FL for over a year. It sucks but at least it's your home.

[Kenroy]

18. No, it's not

a toxic, collapsing house with no sewage, no water, no services, is NOT better than being sheltered elsewhere.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. I lived on a boat for a time

and I've camped out plenty. We can let the people go home and figure out how to take care of their needs.

Once the water goes away, the toxins go into the ground and yes we will have problems but they can be dealt with.

More excuses.

[Kenroy]

21. To die

of cholera, typhoid, dehydration, starvation?

No, an offsite shelter is better.

Sorry, but the notion that New Orleans will be habitable any time soon is ludicrous.

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. They're going to die anyway

after the conditions they've been exposed to for the last week. Once the water is gone the danger of waterbornce contaminants will be greatly reduced. They'll have to drink bottled water for a long time but so do most of us at this point.

[Kenroy]

70. Odd...

you think getting cholera and typhus in a toxic cesspool is preferable to a clean shelter.

This is all a joke, right?

[mondo joe]

76. If they're going to die anyway why move them back home?

Karl Rove, is that you?

[DoYouEverWonder]

84. You don't get it

They are hyping this like they hyped the looting.

This is called stealing not rescuing.

[mondo joe]

90. Stealing? Stealing what?

[DoYouEverWonder]

89. Shouldn't that be up to the victims to decide?

Whether or not they want to go home? This use to be a free country. If I want to go back to my hurricane ravaged flooded house, then I should be allowed to.

How many times have we rebuild other flooded communities along the Mississippi and other rivers.

This is just a blatant land grab.

[mondo joe]

92. A land grab? From renters?

[Xithras]

119. There is a HUGE difference between this flood and other floods.

Not the least of which is the fact that we've NEVER had a major urban area flood like this. In most floods, you can hop in your car, drive 30 minutes, and be in a neighboring town to get supplies to help you rebuild. That's not the case this time around.

There are also huge differences in the way buildings react after being flooded for a few days, and the way they react after sitting below water for weeks. Many of these structures are simply going to fall over when the water is pumped out. The ones that don't will be on the verge of doing so.

The sturdier buildings will have at least a foot of toxic muck on the floor. The interior walls and ceiling will have completely disintegrated, there will be no insulation, and both the wind and structural flexing during the flood will have broken many windows.
It will take months to get the water works up and running again, and then to flush out every single line in the city to remove contaminants. Even worse, it will take LONGER to flush the sewer pipes, because they're likely plugged with dirt and silt. Electricity will have to be turned on HOUSE BY HOUSE, because all of the electrical boxes will have to be checked for corrosion. If there's muck in the plugs and switches, the houses won't have electricity until after they've been completely rewired. Gas heaters, hot water heaters, and major appliances are going to have to be replaced because they've been destroyed by the floodwaters.

You also have to remember that it's not JUST HOMES that will have these problems. Grocery stores will be closed until they're rebuilt and repaired, people won't be able to go back to work until after the businesses are reconstructed.

New Orleans has no liveable homes, no economy, no infrastructure, and no food. Do you REALLY want to send people back in there when the water is pumped out?

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDem]

26. THEY DO NOT WANT THE POOR PEOPLE BACK

That's why they are sending them all over the place.. The "NEW" New Orleans will be a Stepford-Disneyland with high end shops & boutiques & fancy hotels & restaurants..

They are happy to be rid of the poor folks that only "used" services..

Katrina did in one day, what republican politicians have been praying for for DECADES.. New Orleans just turned Blood Red.. No more democratic bastion..

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. And that is why we must do what we can to stop it

New Orleans belongs to these people. This is their home. They have a right to return to their homes. This isn't Palestine is it?

[SoCalDem]

43. Unfortunately a LOT of these displaced people did not OWN

the places they lived, and all their personal belongings are gone. If they had jobs, they too, are gone.. They probably would not go bacvk anyway..

The places that get rebuilt will NOT be low-income housing.:(

[daleo]

54. The rich need the poor - they need their labor

I agree that there may be an effort to rebuild a "Disney" New Orleans, but even that will need inexpensive labor. In a capitalist society the rich need the poor nearby, even if they try to ignore and avoid them most of the time.

I think the current Republican power elites will just want to let New Orleans be taken back by the sea, because they think it will be cheaper. But, just as the ocean can't be left in New Orleans, New Orleans can't be left in the ocean. It would be an environmental catastrophe that even Republicans couldn't ignore (I think). So, given that New Orleans has to be salvaged one way or another, it would probably be better to rebuild on that land, with a levee system like the Dutch use.

But it may be that the Republicans will have to go first. I think catastrophes of this magnitude almost always indicate a governing elite has forfeited their right to govern, historically.

[mondo joe]

31. The toxins will "go into the ground"? Are you a Bush science advisor?

If not, I think you have what it takes.

[stray cat]

23. Maybe we should just leave people on the house's roof then?

No clean water, no gas/electricity, civil order. Picture FL with no outside help and no way out of the area.

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. That's why we have to get rid of the water

as quickly as possible. Most neighborhood could be drained relatively fast. You'll have pockets that will hold water but that can be dealt with second.

All I am hearing are reason for never allowing these people to go back. There is a reason for this.

[Kenroy]

36. Tell us

how to drain the water quickly.

Seriously... tell us.

The existing pumps are under water, and useless.

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Bring in pumps on barges.

Hang hoses over the edge and suck.

At key points you can put holes through the levee and let water out that way. I wish I could draw a picture but it would be like putting a straw through the side of a glass of water and letting the water run into the sink.


In regards to the toxin issues, you are already dealing with one of the most polluted bodies of water in the country. What's a little more pollution now?

[Kenroy]

45. good god

you keep talking about putting holes in levees.

Levees are NOT keeping water in the city. They keep water OUT of the city.

And yes, I'm sure they will bring barges and pumps, and the best estimates say it will take months.

Then, it's still a toxic wasteland, with uninhabitable houses.

[mondo joe]

55. I'm starting to think this is just a comedy act to distract us from what's

really going on in NO.

Really.

[Kenroy]

58. It has to be

nobody who has watched 10 minutes of this catastrophe could possibly believe what he's saying.

[MissB]

71. That must be it.

Because all through this thread, I've been laughing.

Put holes in the levees? What part of this do people not understand? :rofl:

[mondo joe]

74. The truth is it's not only the Bush team who are science illiterates.

But this one is pretty far out.

[Ms. Toad]

115. Teenager?

My teenager posts here occasionally, and it tests my parental protective instincts to not watch over her shoulder to make sure her teenage enthusiasm for what she knows is the correct solution doesn't butt heads too hard with adults (with a few more years life experience and a bit more education) who don't realize they are arguing with a teenager.

[Ms. Toad]

96. Water cannot run uphill.

New Orleans is the sink into which the water has already run. You cannot make it run back up into the faucet (or multiple straws into the glass, to use your analogy). That takes the intricate system of pumps which have no power, and which are likely non-functional.

There is no place lower into which to drain the water.

Although it was a tad crass, the cartoon posted yesterday of Lake Pontchartrain being the tank and New Orleans being the toilet bowl is a fairly accurate picture of where the water came from and how difficult it will be to get it back there.

[mondo joe]

104. Not with that negative attitude it can't! ;-)

[Ms. Toad]

109. And all that toxic sludge ain't helping the attitude.

:silly:

[mondo joe]

112. Sludge? I thought this was my microwaved coffee left over from this AM.

[Ms. Toad]

114. Microwaved how many times?

Only once doesn't count as sludge.

[SoCalDem]

12. water does not drain uphill

The places where water is standing is BELOW the river and lake.. The lake only quit flooding, because it had equalized in level with what spilled into the city..

they must pump it up and over:(

pumps are submerged, and probably full of gunk and debris..and the people who will have to do the work, are probably not that eager to enter the bowl of toxic soup:(

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. They also talked about putting in holes in certain parts of the levee

to let the water out. A lot of places would require pumps but you could take back a large part of the city pretty quickly using a combination of holes and pumps.

[Kenroy]

38. You don't understand something basic...

a hole in the levy will only let water BACK into the city.

The city is BELOW the lake, and BELOW the river.

Water doesn't flow uphill. Really, it doesn't.

[daleo]

60. I recall hearing talk about this too (the Army Corps of Engineers)

I couldn't see exactly what they were getting at. Perhaps there are areas where the water level in the city is now higher than outside the city.

[Kenroy]

94. That's impossible

water finds its own level.

As long as the levees are open, the water in the city will be at the same level as the lake.

I learned this in elementary school.

[daleo]

101. I agree, but I recall they talked about this.

They said that they could "punch holes in the levee to let gravity do some of the work". I didn't know exactly what he meant at the time. I will see if I can find it in the archives.

[daleo]

105. Here is the reference:

Draining New Orleans Could Take a Month

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-525...

Draining New Orleans Could Take a Month

WASHINGTON (AP) - It's too early to predict how long it will take to remove the floodwater from New Orleans because the Army Corps of Engineers is still planning how to accomplish the feat, its commander said Friday.

``We're certainly talking weeks,'' Lt. Gen. Carl Strock told reporters at the Pentagon.

He said the engineers are developing a plan to make new breaches in the levees in New Orleans - from hundreds of feet wide to 3,000 feet - so that a combination of pumping and the effects of gravity will move the water out of the city.

``The real focus now is saving lives and sustaining lives,'' he said.

[Kenroy]

107. Perhaps by "effects of gravity"

they mean siphoning?

I don't know.

But it doesn't make sense. The water is at the level of the lake.

[mondo joe]

108. From NEW SCIENTIST

"By late on Wednesday the lake had dropped low enough that water had stopped flowing into New Orleans. The Army Corps of Engineers says some flood water should flow back out of the city as the lake drops to its normal level. It is likely to take weeks to pump out the remaining water. Only after order is restored and most of the water removed can the city start assessing the damage."


http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7940

[Kenroy]

111. ah, I see now...

the lake's level was higher last week.

So we're both right... the level of water in the city is the same as the level of the lake. But the lake's level will drop slightly.

Still, it's maybe 1 foot of water. It's a very shallow lake.

[mondo joe]

113. Yes. And in any case it would be dependant on the natural level of the

lake - not something that could be rushed with positive thinking. ;-)

[daleo]

117. A foot is better than nothing.

But they had best be careful, as there is a lot of rainwater upriver that has to flow back down, so water levels could be going up again. Plus, weakening the levees (even if they plan to reconstruct the section) might not be a good idea. I fear the levees may have many potential weak spots - it is just the nature of things that when one part of a structure goes, others often follow soon enough, since they will have been built at about the same time.

[DoYouEverWonder]

120. Yes that is true

but once the water in the lake and the river return to normal levels which they probably are getting to at this point, those two bodies of water are normally much lower then the top of the levees. Remember the storm surge and tons of rain from the hurricane caused those two bodies to rise and finally the 3 levees were breached). So what you end up with is a bowl full to the top of water but the water outside of it gets lower. Then you can put a hole through the parts of the levee, that are above the water line of the river (you don't want to go back to the lake, you want the water to go the sea) and the water goes out and the level inside the bowl goes down some. Eventually you reach the same level as the river and then only pumps will do. However, NO already has pumps and more pumps could be brought in.

Note: (this is a general request, not just to Kenroy) Can we have a discussion without put downs and name calling? I do have some knowledge about how water works and pumping things out of places and I'm just trying to come up with solutions. If you are never willing to try crazy things then how can you ever solve seemingly impossible problems? None of the officials are trying to claim that the water can't be pumped out, it just a question of how long will it take. If your throw enough resources at a problem like this, it is not that hard to solve it.

[SoCalDem]

13. duperoo

oops

[liberal43110]

16. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?????????????

Sorry, but your question is completely out of the realm of reason and misses the entire point about the enormity of the catastrophe.

The levee is severely breached in 3 places. If you drain the city, the water has to go into the lake, but the levees are still breached, so the water would drain right back into the city. Also, there is no power. The pumps aren't working even if the levees were sound. The electrical utility infrastructure is so badly crippled that the local utility, Entergy, said that restoring power would require a complete "rebuilding" of the entire infrastructure. There are reports that every single telephone pole in New Orleans has fallen or snapped in two.

Your question is hands-down the most ridiculous thing I've seen here, moreso than people who think that Karl Rove tried to control the weather to solidify the Republican base in the south.

[maine_raptor]

19. Damm another illusion shattered, liberal43110

"Karl Rove tried to control the weather to solidify the Republican base in the south."

You mean he didn't?????? :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

29. And let's float to the moon by holding a bunch of balloons!

Let's be creative!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Are you saying that's not possible??? Darn!.........

....I saved all of those balloons for nothing!!

[mondo joe]

42. It IS possible to float to the moon w/ balloons - if we just put our

minds to it and have a can-do attittude!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. LOL!! Maybe if we drill a few holes in space! :-))

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. You really don't want people to ever go home?

do you?

Water engineering is not that big a deal. We move water all the time.

[Kenroy]

50. You don't understand the problem

[mondo joe]

51. I want people to be safe using real science rather than fantasy.

Your notion of engineering and safety is worse than Bush's.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberal43110]

30. Can-do attitude?

Of course we can DO this, but it will take time and can't be done with thousands of people stranded throughout the city and suburbs.

Your original post asked why we couldn't simply drain the water, as if it could disappear in a couple days if only we would try.

Sorry, your post shows no clue about the situation. Frankly, I thought you had stumbled into the discussion from nowhere: your complete and utter lack of the situation was surprising.

[DoYouEverWonder]

52. I think it could be done in a couple of weeks

In the meantime has more and more neighborhoods are reclaimed people could start to go back. You do it a section at a time.

In the meantime every gym and large empty buildings in the surrounding states could be used to temporarily house people. We housed people in shelters in Florida for months last year.

[liberal43110]

61. OK, fine

There's nothing remotely intelligible about your position, sorry. We will have to agree to disagree.

[Kenroy]

64. OK...

you need a huge education on the problem at hand before it's even worth discussing it further.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. LOL!! Incredible!

[dave502d]

32. There must be oil under the city.n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. No just prime waterfront real estate.

Funny how most of the French Quarter is still dry (yes I know it is higher) but still they can have their new and improved French Quarter and then upscale everything else.

[mcscajun]

56. Duh! The French Quarter is the ONLY 'high ground' (*and we use

the term very loosely here*) IN the whole freakin' place.

Nobody here (at least nobody I've read posting here) is making this a 'we get them in tomorrow or we never do' except you.

I want the folks who've lived there to be able to go back (if they want to) as much as anyone. I want to see New Orleans back in action.

No matter how much we excoriate Bush, and FEMA, and anyone else who's responsible for this, some things are STILL true and all the "can-do" attitude and wishful thinking in the world won't make them false.

It will take months after the levee breaks are repaired to drain all the water in N.O. It will be necessary to inspect every bloody building, residential, commercial, industrial, for structural integrity and hazardous waste conditions. It will take more than a few months to rebuild the bridges that span Lake Ponchartrain and that carried (until nearly a week ago) not only people and goods, but vital communications lines.

Not everything in the world is simple, and all the simplistic posturing won't make it so.

(Edited to remove thoughtless remark violating DU rules.)

[Sgent]

40. Initially

this was the #1 thing to do because shoring up the #17 street canal would have prevented most of the flooding throughout the city.

Now, it is part of the restoration effort. That being said, the Corp of Engineers aren't going to be used in the rescue efforts anyway, and this is the single most important thing that must be done before the restoration efforts can be done.

[DoYouEverWonder]

44. So why is it taking so long?

They being bringing sand in by helicopter a bag at a time. Like we don't have 100's of barges already around NO that we could load up with sand and dump? They could even sink a few derelict barges to block things.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

59. The vast majority of the barges were SUNK in the river by Katrina....

...and the river is currently impassable in and around New Orleans.

FYI....there is only room for one helidopter at a time to drop those sandbags into the gap in the levee.

95% of the remaining helicopters are being used to rescue people, drop supplies, and bring in rescue personnel/military personnel.

[mcscajun]

62. In addition, the river ports aren't really set up for that kind of

loading/unloading. New Orleans is/was the major port for barge traffic.

[DoYouEverWonder]

66. They reopened the river to shipping two days ago

They can move boats around. Even if it has to be on fishing boats or other smaller boats they can still carry loads to dump.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

65. Please allow me to help you out here:

Before any of New Orleans can be rebuilt, millions of gallons of toxic sludge and millions of tons of wreckage into which the toxins have been soaking will have to be removed.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/01/Worldandnation/Hurricane_QA.shtml

Then there is the toxic stew that has literally flooded the landscape -- a foul mixture of petroleum from nearby refineries, industrial pollutants and human waste.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucas/20050903/cm_ucas/neworleansuniquecharmmaybeforeverlost

[DoYouEverWonder]

69. These people have been living on that sludge

all their lives. Once it's in the ground as long as you don't touch or eat it, it shouldn't be any worse then what they had before.

[mondo joe]

72. No, they haven't. The soil of NO was not TOXIC.

I can't think how you can keep posting such erroneous information.

[DoYouEverWonder]

75. I bet half of New Orleans

would qualify has a superfund site before the storm.

Bad water travels and the industrial areas dumped stuff for decades.

[mondo joe]

81. Thank you for again posting fantasies in place of facts. n/t

[xmas74]

68. I hate the way that they have been treated.

Yet I can understand not allowing everyone to go back home until everything is safe. The structures will have to be checked for safety before they can go back to them.
I do suspect that most of them won't make it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

73. Those structure weren't safe to begin with

So what. Even a tarp or a tent on your own land is better then a shelter three states away.

Why does every one want 500,000 new homeless people in this country? Let them go home.

[Kenroy]

80. LOL

OK... very funny. I get it now.

[mondo joe]

83. Have you considered giving each person in NO a bunch of helium balloons

so they could float over the water and be safe?

[xmas74]

116. I don't want all those people to be homeless.

What I wonder about is the small towns in places like KS, the Dakotas, etc who are rapidly losing their populations. More than a few small towns have in the past couple of years advertised free housing for anyone who is interested in relocating (especially people w/ young families). Why aren't we using these resources instead? We have thousands of houses lying dormant in small towns all across the US, gathering dust and decaying.
Why aren't we using these resourses? It would be a solution for the town who is losing their youthful populations and a solution for those who currently do not have homes. Yes, some will choose to go back to NO and other areas when rebuilding has been completed. But not all. Some will become used to their small town lives and choose to settle down in a community that accepted them in their time of need.
We have small towns like this all over the US. Small towns that are losing their schools because they no longer have enough children to attend them. Small towns whose Main Streets are dying as we speak. Why can't we match some of the temporarily displaced to some of these open homes? Some of the small towns w/ churches would probably even have a fundraiser to earn the money to bring a family to their town. And they would make sure that they had furniture, clothing and assistance (some shopowner, restaurant or farmer would probably try to find the family employment. Until then, Social Services would be able to file for aid).

I can think of a few towns here in MO who would gladly do it, if they thought someone would accept. They'd drive a van down to pick them up and the local churches would scrounge up furniture, clothing and food for the people.

[WCGreen]

122. Youngstown Ohio has already said bring em on....

They have so much empty housing stock that they don't knwo what to do....

So XMas74, your solution should be part of the mix....

[HysteryDiagnosis]

78. Ooooooh... Rummy must be sporting a big one right about now.

[DoYouEverWonder]

79. So are a few other people

around here. I think I need to go throw up soon.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

93. Read a few of your posts....that should hasten your trip to the toilet.

[mondo joe]

85. If on a really hot day everyone turned on their air conditioning AND

opened their wondows, would the city cool down?

[Kenroy]

98. If they give every person a metal cup and a bic lighter

they could take a cup of water, hold the lighter under it and boil it away.

You just gotta THINK about the problem, dammit.

[mondo joe]

102. Damn, I wish I thought of boiling the water away. But instead of your

wasteful metal cup and bic lighters, they should just make a big magnifying glass and hold it out over the flood waters on a sunny day.

[Kenroy]

103. Or...

drop a zillion balloons, and have a huge water-balloon fight between New Orleans and Metairie. Eventually, most of the water would end up back in the lake.

Just THINK about the problem.

[Zynx]

87. Millions of gallons of toxic waste

[DoYouEverWonder]

91. Like Rivers never flooded before ?

Like Levees never break?

All the tsuami victims were allowed to return home after the got rid of the debris and the water.

[mondo joe]

95. How long did the Tsunami water sit there mixing with petroleum, corpses

and other toxins?

[Zynx]

99. Most floods are QUITE toxic and dangerous. NO is worse by far.

Both because of the nature of this flood - not going anywhere, so the stuff doesn't dilute - and because of how New Orleans stored all its gasoline and oil ABOVE GROUND, anything that has been underwater needs to be surveyed for contamination, then almost certainly bulldozed as uninhabitable.

The tsunami didn't sit there for any length of time, just like the surge in Mississippi. In and gone very quickly.

The NO water just gets dirtier and nastier the longer it sits there. Not to mention that standing water EATS structures.

[gkhouston]

97. too much damage has been done. The water is already

contaminated and becoming more so by the day. Gas lines are ruptured, the water supply system is compromised, the electric grid is toast, and the wooden structures are probably not going to be habitable. Once the water has been pumped out, they're going to have to decontaminate Lake Ponchartrain somehow, and probably raze the city to the ground and start over from scratch. It's that bad. New Orleans can be re-built, but it's not going to be fast, cheap, or easy. Unfortunately, we have an administration that doesn't have the patience or capacity for solving hard problems. On the plus side, I think there are a lot of Americans, many of whom have never set foot in New Orleans, who do.

[Sgent]

100. My brother,

a white, middle-class homeowner with (god forbid) a trust fund, was planning to see his house Monday.

Equipment included....

A 15 chamber 12 gauge shotgun
40 gallons of feul
40 gallons of water
A dozen MRE's
An airboat
A 4WD SUV
Is uptodate in Yellow fever vaccinations, anthrax, and a host of others
Quinine for Malaria.

All this, and he was only planing to stay one day...

Of course, he's also a former Marine Infantryman and has been trained in non-lethal warfare as well.

He even called it off after speaking to some people about the soup that currently exists. He is currently living in his girlfriend's parents' barn -- not exactly a comfortable existance.

[DoYouEverWonder]

123. Apparently his house is still underwater

I'm talking about letting the people back to their homes after the water is gone and how do we find a way to get rid of that water as soon as possible?

BTW: Apparently your brother is being allowed to go back to his property. Most people aren't even being allowed that.

[Moderator]

124. Locked.

Thanks for your understanding.