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Am I the only one who understands why Democrats aren't blaming bush yet?

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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:34 PM
Original message
Am I the only one who understands why Democrats aren't blaming bush yet?
The way I see it now isn't the time to unlease the big bombs; first off no one is paying attention to the writing on the wall. The attention is on the victims of the Katrina how to take care of them ect.

If the Democrats were to be seen caring more about throwing the rightful blame on the bush admin as opposed to rounding up help they leave themselves wide open for the "so you care more about politics than the victims attack" which is a technique the repukes have mastered.

I would prefer to see the Democrats getting out there and putting on an all out effort to help (which is what we're seeing from a few prominent Democrats at least) and show that we care about helping the people before politics.

THEN when the last refugee is properly being cared for unlease the fire on the repukes for their arrogance and imcompetence. I'll be the first to admit the Democrats MUST point loudly every last fault of this administration, but the time has to be right, right now it could backfire.

And yes I will step up to criticising the Democrats if when the time is right they don't grow a pair and outright call out these punkass murderers for who they really are.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. it's the same old story - they don't wanna get blamed for playing politics
it's an old story round here :hi:

peace
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. That's why they always kick the Shit out of us...
We wait until the "Right Time"...by then they have spun the story against us....Fuck Them...let's move in now...we owe it to the victims!!!!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. Besides, we don't even have a body-count yet.
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clark4me Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
62. We don't need a body count to have Dem Leaders GO TO these
areas and try to help. To make announcements and/or pleas for help. To pledge funds from their state or thier piggy banks for God's sake and start showing some leadership and offering answers and solutions. It is time for Dem Leaders to roll up their sleeves and to get in there and start helping.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. You're exactly right.
Except maybe, this time, I don't fault them for their inaction. This is a first-rate tragedy, and all of Bush Co.'s wires are sticking out, for the whole world to see. Rove must have fallen asleep.

But, you can bet he won't be asleep in a couple of days or a week, and the first Hillary or John Kerry that steps up is going to give the noise machine their "in."
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. It is hard to blame him because
he is such a nit wit. I am sure Clinton got the Gov to hire Dewitt.
I am sure that gore is getting his plane load out. Quite a contrast. Red Cross should demand to be allowed in. That business about violence is just a lot of bull shit. Maybe some gun fire but they are allowing people to die from neglect. The red Cross has been is some worse places.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
80. Why are you sure of that?? n/t
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, you're not.
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 06:37 PM by Mass
All in me wants them to attack him, but right now, it is more urgent to find a way to help, which is some, at least, are doing.

In addition, most dems by now have somehow criticized the management of this crisis. FGS, even Lieberman and Nelson(both of them in fact) have.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
74. kick
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good persepective
Just curious, when is the time right? THings fall off the National map pretty quick these days - I'd say within the next month, less?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I would say as soon as we can be sure that all rescue operations are done
(so hopefully very soon) or if this does not improve very soon (hopefully not the case, but it seems plenty of people outside of NOLA and in MS are still unattended and the media are not reporting that.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. that's when I would say to do it hence "when the last refugee is safe"
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madame defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Agreed.
I was just talking about this with my sister. Now is not the time. But save the ammo 'cause we'll use it soon, very very soon...
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
71. Anyway, the opposite side is beginning to wake up and do it on their own.
Criticism is more effective right now coming from them than us. If we're the only ones or the loudest ones critical, it just raises others' hackles and puts them in defensive mode against us.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nope, you're not the only one; count me in too. They should take
a cue from Al Gore and do something on their own to actually help the people down there. There silence just makes it look like they really can't be bothered with all this mess and they don't want to upset the president. Bullshit - DO SOMETHING, DAMN IT.
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Qibing Zero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. The sentiment is much stronger now
..while we have to watch people in NO dying, out of our control.

A lot of the people out there are already shoving blame onto the mayor and governor, and we're supposed to be content with the democrats who offer political lip-service? Fuck that.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree with you.
n/t
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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nope I agree 100%
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. They don't need to blame him yet; people are doing it all by themselves
without the Dems saying it.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. they will, and it's won't be punitive
it won't be blaming, it will be attempting to assign accountability, and it will probably fail, based on the GOP's being in power and their past refusal to assign accountability.

The difference this time, however, might be the 2006 elections...
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yes...our Democrats have "a Plan" they are holding back waiting until
Bush implodes and then they will come in for the "Kill."

It's an interesting plan....except that they've had it for YEARS and it includes the 2000 "Selection."

But, never mind, here. Their "consultants" are telling them to "keep their powder dry." By doing "NOTHING" they can just wait it out...sit it out and let the "Black Caucus" take the heat.

It's a brilliant strategy, isn't it. If we are all patient...the rewards will be ours.

:eyes: :crazy: :nuke:
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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Just curious...
What do you think would happen if the Dems went on national television right now and started blasting Bush?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. I think...A DESPERATE AMERICA HELD CAPTIVE WOULD RALLY!
would be So Thankful for ANYONE speaking Truth to Power that it could be the ULTIMATE DOWNFALL OF BUSH.

We don't get many windows to go against the PNAC/NEOCONS and this Window IS OPEN...waiting for the FRESH AIR.

But...we Dems will Fall/and Fail..Once again. And the Think Tanks and Pundits and Bloggers will weep, wail and moan and look for a better "opportunity" to challenge Bush...who is the EMPEROR/KING of America...even though he's a FAILED/PUNY/WEAKLING with SYCOPHANTS who TRAIL HIM in his CODPIECE OF GLORY from his PAST SUCCESS....September 11th, 2001! :puke: there is no other word to describe the despotic madness we live under.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Yep
Keep their powder dry and feed him enough rope, so that....

...I dunno. So that the last Democrat standing will have dry powder and 20 miles of rope, I guess.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. How MUCH ROPE...has he already been given....by Daschle...even when
Jim Jeffords (Trent Lott and Asscroft's best Barber Shop Quartet gave him?) How much longer do we have to wait? Mid-terms...Repugs Won Big...2008 Repugs threw election for the third time since 2000 and WIN AGAIN.

How much more rope can we keep giving, here. Us "rope makers" are growing very weary and anxious...and some of us are even refusing to participate in weaving more rope.

At some point ...one has to just do "Tough Love" tactics against the "rope weavers" with their "pie in the sky...just hang on" culture of fantasy...

Sorry...if that offends you...but many of us have had enough. We held our nose and worked for Dem Candidates all these years...and where the hell are they. Without the House Black Caucus we might as well leave America for "parts unknown" for all the attention that's paid to us. And we WERE the "activists on the ground for Kerry/Edwards/Kucinich/Dean" ...and WE WERE the folks who gave the money we could and paid for our own copies and literature so as not to "tax the strained resources of the Campaigns...and WE WERE the people who KNEW ABOUT "SELECTION 2000" and that Al Gore is our REAL PRESIDENT and that it was stolen and Kerry/Edwards was stolen.

But in the end...Neither Gore/Lieberman nor Kerry/Edwards even believe in US who've fought for them on the ground in our Precincts in our Activism and in all our efforts.

I hope Howard Dean does still see this. I hope Dennis Kucinich remembers...Because if not...WHO will REMEMBER?

I guess we are told to "give up" and get on line for that "rope into nowhere...the "rope promise." :-(
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Offends me?
Hell, no. I've been as long disgusted as you. Those who coo "masterful" at every Democratic inaction, thinking they're just "feeding him enough rope" are annoying fools.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. Very nice KoKo! Very nice.
:eyes: :crazy: :nuke:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think you are confused.
In any other country in the world, the opposition would be teeing off on these bastards, and rightly so. The reason that the Democratic leadership is not teeing off on the Bushites is because they are a fake opposition. Do you really believe the Republicans would be holding back on a Democratic President?
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. I'm not confused I understand the enemy
I know the Democrats as of now don't have the will to put up a real firefight which is why if they tried now they'd go down in flames as the repukes display their mastery of smear "Democrats only care about politics now victims!" "Democrats blame America!"

Can you see it?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. No, but I will give you credit for a coherent argument.
It is at least true that they are craven and self-serving weasels,
and that that is much of the problem.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
60. But they're OUR craven and self-serving weasels
and they are our only solution.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. If "they" are our only solution....then God help us...because
we will have lost our own creativity and power of the people. :shrug:

Looking for hero's in these times...well, they are there, but they don't have the power yet to be what will propel us.

It's always the "people." It comes from us.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. If The People are the only solution
then the existence of an unsolved problem is the fault of The People, and therefore The People are the problem, and the problem can't be the solution, so The People can't be the solution.

Simple logic.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #60
72. They aren't mine. nt
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. I never mentioned you or "yours". I said OUR.
The only pronouns that count in politics are plural.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. go to www.jameswolcott.com and read his part one and two, the
top two parts of his blog and see if you feel that way. The dems don't have a pair because they NEVER had one. If we don't speak up now when people are FURIOUS, then it will be buried like 9/11 was.
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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'd appreciate it if someone else other than Wes Clark was on television..
And saying everything they are doing to save these people, talk about the destruction here and talking about what their policies can do to help stop this from happening. IMO they should be all over NO doing this, and they aren't.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'd say about Tuesday the shit will hit the fan...
Once EVERYTHING being said is on the congressional record! I can't wait to hear my senator rip into them...Bobby Byrd will be about a Cat 5 over this.
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. they don't have to
that only galvanizes the right to defend Bush even if they know he fucked up. Instead, you just stand back and let them turn on each other. There is a long trail of documented evidence pointing to them having prior knowledge and doing nothing about it - and even cutting programs that could have provided more help.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. The best thing you can do this weekend is write your
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 06:49 PM by Cleita
elected politicians both Democratic and Republican expressing your disgust over the way this was handled and asking for an independent investigation. I have already written mine. If they don't get deluged with mail from us, they will not do anything.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. Soon. Not right now, but soon. And we must encourage them
Next week, or the next one. Don't let them off the hook, start a massive campaign, or continue to campaign to the Dems and the Repubs to do so. Soon.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. The repukes will try to deflect a.nd blame the dems no matter what we do
This is the same old tired crap - like a broken record.

We're still waiting for the "proper time" to criticize 911, aren't we?

And you still fall for that crap?

No, we need to do it NOW while the anger and disgust is SEETHING in us all!

Build the anger. Feel the anger. Live the anger. Never forget - so we can be sure to use it to get rid of these criminals once and for all!

We are, after all, still being told it's not the "proper time" to criticize 911, are we not?

For the guilty, exposed in front of us all, it will NEVER be the proper time!

And, just as luck would have it - again - "tomorrow" never comes, does it!
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. More bad advice for the party that was in the majority for 40 years...
...until the mealy-mouthed, triangulators took over and turned our once proud party into an irrelevant minority.

They waited...and then did nothing about the blatantly stolen 2000 election.

They waited...and the Bushies used 9-11 against us...while escaping scrutiny and accountability for doing NOTHING while terrorists attacked our country.

The 2004 election was a repeat of 2000. Again they waited and then did little or nothing.

Bush will once again get away with crimes against the state and humanity. Why? Because there is no loyal opposition in America and the voters know it.

Shame on every Democratic leader that won't stand up like the Congressional Black Caucus and call Bush on his FAILURES.

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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Simple. They don't have to.
And they shouldn't anyway. The people know what happened here.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. At some point, they will have too, or there will be a scapegoat.
However, right now, we should not do something that is going to allow the media to change the subject away from the disaster.

There are plenty of lives to save and attacking Bush will do nothing for that, I am afraid.
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Hearings, articles of impeachment, etc.
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 07:24 PM by longship
That's when it will all be settled.

Actually, there's no way that the locals can be pinned with this. FEMA declared emergency on Saturday. The Gov sent the proper requests for fed assistance through Dept Hometown Security to Bush on Sunday. FEMA even said in 2001 that this very scenerio was one of three top tragedies that could befall the USA.

The problem with Chimpy and Company trying to pin the blame on the local Dems is that it will not stick. Everybody knows what happened here. It all happened right before our very eyes. Fortunately, the whorish media was not so whorish this week. There was excellent documentation for the complete and total Chimpy incompetence. CuckooBananas has nowhere to run. He's stuck.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. The people DON'T know what happened here.
They may know that it is 'bad down there' and 'help has been slow to arrive' -- but beyond that they DON'T know that FEMA is lying; that the Red Cross is not in NO (and is headed by a freeper asshat); that citizen volunteers have been turned away from NO at gunpoint -- they DON'T know. I just took my dogs for a walk and talked with a lefty neighbor who DID NOT know. Unless people are getting their news from DU or Buzzflash - they don't know.

:rant:
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OETKB Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. An engine runs better when it's hot.
Anger at such corrupt, destructive government needs the full wrath of the people as we, at the same time, help our fellow citizens. Doesn't anyone realize, there but for fortune go any one of us? This view of governance must be expunged from public life. We're talking criminality here. It is not the time to look the other way.

This is the anniversary of the Watergate break-in. The failure to impeach and imprison Mr. Nixon paved the way for what we have today. There was no ultimated responsibility for trashing of our rights perpetrated by this former president. It is time to put an end to it. Benjamin Franklin on being asked what was going on behind the closed doors of the Constitutional Convention: "Making a republic, if you can keep it." How many crossroads do we have to come to before it is obvious to everyone that what has happened during this administration is wrong.
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bribri16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. I think you make a great point. n/t
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. You are correct sir. If Dems bleat, they are against rescue & for politics
Thay had best hunker down, believe me, Rove is looking for any crack to wedge into. There will be time enough...

I am talking about the "official" dems, elected and party officials. Anyone and everyone who does nor speak with an official (Democratic Party) nametag should wail to the skies!
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. They never blame him for anything...why start now?
I am sure they will all be lined up, save the CBC, to take turns kissing his butt and giving him a reach around. He piddled while NOLA drowned. I don't care right now in what political party politicians are. They are in the pro-genocide party or they are in the anti-genocide party. The time has come for action; the time has past for cowering. I have been hearing for YEARS that "now isn't the time to unlease the big bombs." If not now, when? After 2 or 3 more cities full of poor dark skinned people die? After the corporate masters no longer have interest in them? After 75% of America is in poverty because of draconian legislation? After they haul a third of us off to camps? Please do tell...if not now, when? The time is right...they "don't have a pair," and they will not "call out these punkass murderers for who they really are." Nancy Pelosi yesterday all but genuflected before the Imperial Masters yesterday. The time for this to stop is now. The buck stops on Baby George's desk.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. I agree- and the ones who have standing *are* taking their shots
There's Nagler and the entire CBC, of course, Landreiu just busted bush for pulling the entire staging area from yesterday's photo op, and she teamed with Reid, -standing as ranking dem- to use official channels with bush (that'll establish his specific refusals to help)

Few probably know that it was Pelosi who dogged hastert into an emergency session (he officially refused, then announced it as his idea the next day)

Reid's also attacking Rs for even THINKING of an estate tax repeal this week.

When EVEN Geraldo Rivera is freaking out over govt's unthinkably inadequate response, waiting for the living (and the dead) to be collected isn't eating at me, yet.

When the excuses begin to flow, then we'd better be hearing some real noise.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
37. I've been thinking about this. Just not mid-crisis.
People are dying. The thing to do now is not to beat up on the person who fucked up the situation so badly, much as you may want to. The thing to do now is to save those people.

And I'm sorry, but fantasies of someone riding in on a white horse, knocking Bush out of the way to take charge just isn't going to happen. So I suspect that many of the Dems are doing what Boxer is doing, which is to find ways to help that don't involve Bush or his approval.

Things like Gore flying down to take critically ill people to Tennessee. Now is not the time to play politics. Now is the time to save folks.

After everyone is safe and relatively stable... well, saying that is the time to play politics doesn't hit the mark either.

Then will be the time to let all your pent up anger just burst through. How effective have the reporters on the scene been as they broke through their normal spin and were practically in tears over the situation.

People know real emotion from playing politics. I'm hoping for some real emotion from our leaders in the days to come.

But not now. I want productivity. Work! No bitching. No blaming. WORK!!!
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. Sit on y/our safe, sanctimonious asses&wait 4 magic "balls" 2save the day?
Bullshit. Fuck Strategery. IT IS UP TO US.

What we WILL be doing, NOW is prepare for the time the Democrats are ready to focus on the administration's failed repsonsibilities:

1. LTTE
2. Letters, emails, etc. TO THE DEMOCRATS EXPRESSING OUR OUTRAGE, INSISTING THAT THEY REPRESENT US
3. Community outreach to channel that rage and bear witness with others to this WAKE UP CALL
4. Aid to the hurricane victims
5. Solidarity with our brothers and sisters in SHOUTING DOWN DU DENIAL THAT RACE MATTERS.

"I would prefer to see the Democrats getting out there and putting on an all out effort to help (which is what we're seeing from a few prominent Democrats at least) and show that we care about helping the people before politics."

It's up to us to "get out there" in whatever way we can and insist that Dems represent us and expose this WH administration for the venal, irresponsible private-profit-making machine that it has been turned into.

Please don't think sitting on our thumbs and waiting for Dems or anyone else to make a difference will DO anything.

"And yes I will step up to criticising the Democrats if when the time is right they don't grow a pair and outright call out these punkass murderers for who they really are. "

If you think criticizing is the answer, rather than direct efforts on your part to communicate effectively within your community and with your representatives, then step aside.

And in case you haven't heard:

BALLS ARE NOT THE ANSWER.

Geez, we have to deal with the racism around these events and the fucking sexism still TOO?

:hi:
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
40. Because they're waiting for CLinton + Gov. Blanco + Ray Nagin to be blamed
FIRST, and then when that happens, they'll very quickly conclude that because they seized the initiative, the Republicans have erected an impenetrable cover story deflecting blame away from themselves, and conclude furthermore that it's not worth the effort of trying to pierce the Republican Reality Distortion Field with the facts since they waited so long to begin countering the tide of elephant shit.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
45. you dont either lol. guess what - they want lives saved. nt
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
46. Everyone knows that bush fucked up,,,,D'uh!
Its as plain as the nose on their face.

Dem leadership cant tell them something they already dont know
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RSchewe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
48. So when do you think they are going to start this "help the people" thing?
Also, who is going to do it? Bush snatched up Clinton to raise money. I would possibly agree if that seemed likely. So far I don't see any signs of the Democratic party participating at all. Are they STILL on vacation or am I missing something? The only Dems I have seen are the Congressional Black Caucus.

On the other hand, it's probably just me.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
50. The fact that they should not yet politicize
the deaths of thousands is not merely politically astute, it's just good manners.
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RSchewe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. So with that position I guess Bush using 9/11 should not have helped
him politically. Not that I think it was right...
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. No, it "should" not have helped
but it did. It would not work nearly as well when blaming an American, especially a sitting president.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
51. I understand too
and I agree.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
53. The Dem's shouldn't
be pointing any fingers right now, but goddamn it, they should be stoking the fire.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. Yeah, that strategy worked so well for Kerry
against the Swift Boat Vets for Lies.

Nuf said.
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Greylyn58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
55. As mad as I am, I think I agree with you
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 07:37 PM by Greylyn58
I think if more prominent Democrats step forward and help--like Al Gore did today--it will show the rest of the country that Democrats don't just spout rhetoric--they jump in, roll up their sleeves and take care of the people who need them.

Right now the GOP are already trying to place the blame on the Mayor of NO and on the Governor of LA. We need to defend them, but at the same time we need to show the country and the rest of the world what the Democratic party is made of. That it's not always about politics, that when we say we care about the least among us, we mean it and want to do everything within our power to help the people of LA, MS and AL rebuild their shattered lives.

Just my opinion.





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RSchewe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Hopefully some Democrats surrently serving can do something as well
instead of just some retired Dems. Don't get me wrong, it is great to see Gore there, but where are the Democratic Senators and Representatives now in office?
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
57. We must wait till Tuesday
Finally TODAY we are beginning to see pictures the kind of mobilization WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SEEING starting last TUESDAY. THAT was the day our leaders should have started bitching. Now its appropriate to wait until everyone has made it to safety. Hopefully that will only take another day or two. THEN we can vigorously take up the issue, including what we can do with the dispossessed.

* We must demand an investigation into the lack of response by the federal govt. We must identify all the failures in the chain of command so that we can learn from and avoid the same mistakes. We must hold people accountable. I think we'll find the plan was good, it just wasn't executed.

* We must plan broadly on resettlement and reconstruction
* rebuild the city of New Orleans
* resettle all the victims who lost everything
* protect our energy supply

Our response to this crisis can influence the way a generation of voters view the Democratic party. It can be THE THING that sets us apart from Republicans in their minds.

Will it be a missed opportunity or will it springboard liberalism back into the American majority??

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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
59. I WANT them to play politics. They're fucking politicians!
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 07:46 PM by Marr
I understand what you're saying, but I've heard it a hundred times before. By the time the "right moment" arrives, the Republicans have already defined the debate, changed the subject, or actually BLAMED THE DEMOCRATS.

They should not be sitting around waiting for a "right moment" that may never come. They should get out there and bark. That's their job- and if they can't take the criticism and angry responses from the opposition, they should get out of politics.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
61. The Democratic Leaders Can Be Silent...
...but I won't be! I want Bush & the neocons *gone*!

Tammy
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. We've heard from Clark, Kucinich,
Kerry, and Dean(that I know about) on "Where's the Leadership?"..but I think you're right on the rest of them.

In this particular Disaster..People can see for themselves on national tv with the mainstream reporters pointing it out..just how much the bushwa FUBARED without any help from anyone else..RIGHT NOW.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
64. We don't have the full scope yet. The murder of ? people.
Unlike the NOLA levee. These blanks will fill themselves in with time. So let this levee fill. Then it's war! But it won't be a real war. The chikenhawks will run off to Canada. Cheney's already there.
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
65. I disagree and I'm surprised at myself
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 08:02 PM by nuxvomica
I was thinking, yes, the Democrats should focus on being helpful until people are reasonably safe. That they shouldn't appear to be playing the blame game and politicizing this tragedy. But I realized after seeing all the pictures of people stranded and helpless and saw how incredibly inept people like Brown and Chertoff and their leaders were -- absolutely dangerously inept -- that there wasn't any daylight between my politics and my outrage. Insuring that the full resources of this government and nation are put to use to save its citizens in harms way is at the core of my political beliefs. It is one of the reasons why I am a Democrat. It is part of the values of being a Democrat. This is actually a chance to show the voters what the Party stands for but more than that it is what the Party must stand for now if it is to stand for anything ever.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
66. Conversely, if "our DEM leaders wait, the moment will have passed.
Repukes will say..."Look, they are doing better now". Now is the time for rage...comtroled, focused rage for the deadly delays, the staged photo ops, the intentional, systematic destruction of our infrastructure,all of it. Keep them on the defensive and angrily demand that each evacuee gets what they need. These idiots only responded when they were humiliated into action. Otherwise, the Idiot would still be playing golf.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
67. Plus, Bush/ Congress holds the purse strings.
I understand trying to have tact, but there's a difference between that and ass-kissing.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
68. I've been saying this all week.
People who aren't directly involved in the rescue efforts (Blanco, Nagin, Landrieu, and Gore, at last count) really should be promoting the Red Cross and saying no more.

The media is already rightfully blaming Bush.

The other Dems seem to be avoiding interfering with their opponent while he is in the process of destroying himself.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
70. Washington Democrats are actually Republicans.
THAT'S why they won't knock w. Defending him at all costs is their job.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
73. You are SO right.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
77. He's holding New Orleans and its scattered citizens hostage.
Any official attacks from Democrats will be answered by a host of punishment "trickling down" in a storm of outrageous, inhuman treatment from his administration.

We already know what kind of man he is. He hasn't hid it very well, has he?
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
78. I am sick of the "lay in the weeds" attitude
I've been told that about the Roberts nomination. We have to lay in the weeds and pick our spots. If NOLA isn't the spot to make our stand - where the fuck is it?
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dxstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
79. Am I the only one who thinks both can be done simultaneously?
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 02:53 AM by dxstone
It is VERY important to show REAL take-charge leadership, while also keeping the fires of outrage STOKED TO THE MAX... and the BEST way for them to do that is to get off their asses and make VERY visible efforts to alleviate the suffering of the trapped victims, while at the SAME TIME taking a break each time they airlift another helicopter load of survivors to safety (are you listening, Al?) to totally REAM Butch out for the shit job all his new and innovative organizations are doing; to call attention to the stuff they're experiencing first-hand on these missions of mercy, and to marvel openly at the fact that the united states is acting with such incredibly shameful incompetence that it doesn't even deserve to be capitalized anymore (haha, pretty subtle, eh?)... then say, "Hate to cut this short, but I gotta go pick up another load of desperate people the administration has left to drown like rats. Stick around; I'm sure I'll have more horror stories when I return." Then go out and do it again; rest and repeat as necessary.

In THIS way, the people doing the criticizing would wield a greater authority in their claims of Butchian incompetence and dereliction of duty; if they themselves are on the front lines, doing the work neglected by the neocon asshats, won't they present the STARKEST and most OBVIOUS contrast of Dem's passionate and determined capability, vs. Republican casual indifference, rather transparent racist tendencies and total cluelessness?

ONLY problem is: Some Dems have already come forward, but most remain strangely silent. I have to assume that these are the Dems who have been corrupted to the Dark Side, or who have awakened in their beds absoluted SURROUNDED by severed horse heads at one time or another, or who are controlled by blackmail, probably most of it sexual or dealing with knowledge of their own past mistakes or corruptions, large or small... for even the smallest mistake can become an impeachable offense, when the entire corrupt newsmedia stands behind the ridiculous allegations and confabulations of disciplined Repub smearing of those they wish to silence or render completely without credibility (just ask Clinton.)

In a way, the bought-and-paid-for MSM is perhaps the greatest evil of all; were it not for their happy complicity, ButchCo could NEVER have gotten away with even their first three attempts at subverting and totally fucking up what America is all about... and we're on #77 or so at this point...

HOWEVER... many of the newslackeys themselves are proving not to have the strong stomach for wholesale slaughter that their Dark Masters seem to enjoy... there HAS been a partial turnabout in terms of news coverage, but look for those honest people to be dismissed, or reassigned to cover Iceland, or suddenly quit (the Repubs have an immense supply of severed horse heads on ice for such contingencies, I'm quite sure)... that is, if we can't begin to turn things around RIGHT NOW! We may NEVER have another chance like this; we CAN'T afford to let that heat and that outrage flag and fade in memory...

Let those Dems who still serve democratic ideals and values concentrate for now on helping, but taking every small break and opportunity for face-time to blast out the msg that this was the biggest relief-effort fuck-up in all human history. Let them point out that HALLIBURTON was awarded the fucking contract to do most of the cleanup--the same HALLIBURTON that has been doing such a totally laughable job of rebuilding Iraq and feeding and arming and outfitting our troops with the tools they need simply to defend themselves in a foreign land.

Let them keep repeating "WHY FIVE DAYS? WHY DIDN'T THEY AIRDROP WATER AND FOOD IN RIGHT AWAY? WHY DIDN'T FEMA KNOW THERE WERE 20,000 PEOPLE TRAPPED IN THE SUPERDOME UNTIL 3 DAYS AFTER EVERYONE ELSE KNEW? IS THIS THEIR IDEA OF SMART AND EFFICIENT LEADERSHIP? WHY WOULDN'T THEY LET THE STARVING PEOPLE SIMPLY WALK OUT ON WEDNESDAY AND GO TO WHERE FOOD AND FRESH WATER WAS? HOW CAN ANYONE FEEL SAFE WITH THESE INCOMPETENTS IN CHARGE?"

Then, AFTER the MAJOR crisis is over in a week or so, they can begin to present the EVIDENCE: timelines, lists of all the national and international help that was denied by the Feds, the fake relief effort photo-ops and the ringers Butch embraced and the choice audio and video stuff from Geraldo and Mayor Nagin, the films and pics of the worst of it... and in this next week, while we are still waiting for the relief effort to move forward, WE here at DU can ALL be instrumental in assembling that documentation, then media-blasting it everywhere; we can provide our elected officials ready-made documents to back up their questioning of the WH and fema responses... and then let the brave Dems out there REALLY crank up that criticism, while WE find ways to blog the info out to, AMAZINGLY, the STILL-sleeping masses out there who may otherwise miss out on ALL the details...
And we'll have to hammer those brave Dems ourselves too, and any others we think may be swayed now...

Unique opportunities lie ahead in the coming weeks; MANY of those who have up til now fallen in line with Butch and his boys may just find the cajones to speak up and turn on him, if we show them enough support...

To be perfectly honest, I hate politics. I hate writing politicians and asking them "Will you PLEASE do your motherfucking jobs, assholes???"
But that's what we're gonna hafta do.

And it wouldn't hurt either, for our leaders to point out that the neocons are using this whole thing to foment racist tensions. From where I'm sitting, as a white American in suburbia, it's my opinion that the fires are igniting not amongst black people so much, though I'm sure it's there... what's more disturbing is the sadly racist reactions from uninformed white Americans who seem to think this whole thing is going to be a tremendous windfall for blacks, another opportunity for them to "ride they system"...

THAT'S where the real fomenting is taking place. The very act of suggesting that there are racist elements to this horrifying spectacle brings out the ugly defensiveness of the common white racist, who is often latently racist, and thus is so angered by being called out for it that they immediately begin to blame the victims, and to revel in the suffering of those they profess to hold no hatred for at all.
It's a subtle fucking game these neo-nazis are playing. We have to be smarter than that.

There is NO reason I can think of that we can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, keep the fires good and hot... and when the work is done, turn on the true culprits of this clusterfuck and go after 'em with everything we've got.
Should be an interesting time in DC come the 24th.
d
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
81. sure, sure. and Kerry is still biding his time too.
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