Watching Today Show? FL has known about Rush's drugs for 5 months

[displacedtexan]

are you watching? that annoying little katie couric (Murphy Brown's description of her) reported nonchalantly that florida investigators have known about rush's drug trafficking since may.

looks to me as if 'investigators' were ignoring rush' illegal drug buys. wonder who made that decision. hhhhhhmmmmmmm...

wish you could see the shocked look on my face (NOT).

[TAH6988]

1. His drug "trafficking?"

Normally that means one was selling drugs, not just buying them. Is he accused of selling drugs as well?

[Kookaburra]

2. Probably not selling

I doubt he has the intestinal fortitude to do that. Katie Couric is just a dumb little twit. She makes these kinds of glaring errors all the time.

[bushisanidiot]

39. Dumb Little Twits Are On Faux News

Every see 'fox & friends'? Now THERE are some dumb little twits.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. I Call That Show "The Five Boobs"

I know there's only three of them. You can figure it out.
The Professor

[displacedtexan]

3. does 'trafficking' only apply to sellers?

if so, please forgive my use of the word. i don't know much about illegal drug vernacular.

[TAH6988]

5. Normally it is used

to mean supplying or purchasing (wholesale) and selling (at "retail"). Or in some cases, just selling. It's not normally used to mean only purchasing.

[sendero]

9. yes...

... the crime is generally called something "distribution" or even "intent to distribute" when the circumstances indicate (i.e. quantities) that the drugs could not possibly be for personal use, but no proof of distribution has been gathered.

Either is a serious crime. I really doubt Rush would be selling the stuff, my god that would be stupid - but if the quantity numbers that have been bandied about are true it staggers the mind to think that he could have taken that much of the stuff. Maybe he was hoarding it. If he was addicted (and it sure sounds like he was) he was probably wary of running out.

Also, a previous poster mentioned the toxicity factor. The hydrocodones do contain tylenol and that stuff is rough on the liver. But oxycontin does not, and it sounds like that was his drug of choice.

Oxy is very, very addictive, I have read and heard about a lot of people getting hooked on the stuff. Ironically, the company that created it apparently claimed to doctors (informally, since it is not true) that oxycontin was less addictive than hydrocodone and a safer prescribe. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Terran]

57. Oxycontin was designed to prevent abuse

The "contin" part indicates continuous release--supposed to be both a benefit to patients with chronic pain, and a disincentive for people to abuse them. But of course people have gotten around that by crushing the pills and otherwise altering its delivery system. They really did mean it to be less addictive, but they didn't count on people finding clever ways to get around the safeguards. Oxycodone (the generic name for the Class 2 drug in Oxycontin) is a highly addictive opiate, no matter what is done to it--that's why it's a Class 2 drug.

[hexola]

4. It's a quantity deal...volume = trafficer

I think when you are on either end of large quantity deals...you are considered a "trafficer"

[TAH6988]

8. Usually you have to have intent

to redistribute that which you purchase to be consider a trafficker I have no idea about being a trafficer, though). One who purchases for one's own use is not mormally called a trafficker.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. An attempt to solicit drugs is a criminal offense in Florida.

Section 777.04 of the Florida Statutes.

[TAH6988]

19. Of course

it is. Who said otherwise?

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. Read it quickly.

Sorry. Trying to cover lots of material here and read your post too quickly.

But, I think that defining intent to traffick may have to do with how much you purchase. Too much of the substance may be enough for the authorities to define intent.

[Brian Sweat]

52. Intent to redistribute is automatically imputed on anyone

caught in possession of an amount in excess of certain legal limits.

[OldSoldier]

54. There's an intent thing here too

//On edit: Yes, I originally put "quantity" in the subject line. Oops.//

They figure that anyone who's keeping a stash for personal use isn't going to have much on hand--too much fear of getting caught with it, I guess. Above a certain level, they assume you're selling the stuff.

Pharmacies don't keep this much OxyContin on hand--that would be inviting a break-in.

We all talk about how much money Rush has and how, because he makes millions lying to America, he couldn't be dealing. Hang on for a second, here: The guy's married. It doesn't matter whether you have fifty dollars or fifty million in the bank, a wife knows when more money is flowing out of the account than is supposed to. And OxyContin--especially illicit OxyContin--isn't an inexpensive form of entertainment. We know he's a bullshit artist, we know he's hooked on OxyContin and we know he doesn't want his spouse to know what he does for fun. Add 'em together...Rush is probably dealing to support his habit.

No way he's doing 100 pills of OxyContin a day. Tolerance doesn't build up that high, and in the grand scheme of things Rush Limbaugh never was that fat. He'd have to weigh 600 pounds, and be a rhinocerus, to survive 100 OxyContins a day.

Prison for ninety-eight and a year and we'll call it even, Pigboy ninety-nine.

[hexola]

59. I'm picturing a "group buy"...

Still probably "dealing" by the law...but I'm picturing his order being split amongst a few friends...What about Marta...is she a user...?

[0007]

83. Yeah, I think your on to something

Maybe Rush was dealing to Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity and a few other motormouths.

[Brian Sweat]

61. I have heard of vicodin addicts taking over 40 pills a day.

At that rate, 4,350 would last a little over 100 days. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that he was just hoarding.



Here is a page that claims that some Vicodin abusers have taken over 100 pills a day.

http://www.oxyabusekills.com/Vicodin.html

[Frodo]

63. Not possible.

At least not in this situation. He may be addicted, but he does a daily radio program four hours a day. While his points are not always "intelligible" and lacking "clarity of thought", it is clearly due to wrong-headed thinking, not painkillers.

If the story is true, he must take a bunch at night, or on weekends (though I understand that he is out quite a bit). He couldn't possibly be taking dozens a day without serious side affects ebing evident to everyone. Junkies who take the amount you describe just don't get seen/heard in public that much.

[Braden]

11. if you have enough on hand you can be considered

to be trafficking.

[TAH6988]

13. Only if the intent

to distribute can be established.

[hexola]

21. Isn't that done in court - not at the bust...

...and are you sure? I'd say if I got caught with 25 pounds of Pot - I'd be charged with trafficking...even if I planned to smoke it all myself...

Thats why they call it "trafficking" - you are invovled in the flow of "drug traffic" as buyer or seller.

I think there are seperate laws for "intent to distribute"

[TAH6988]

23. Like I said

NORMALLY trafficking is a term used to mean "distributing" not just buying. People with large amounts of drugs, beyond that which a reasonable DA might consider for "personal use," are often charged with trafficking. They still have to prove it.

[hexola]

27. Yeah - see post #4

[TAH6988]

28. Still

gotta prove it.

[hexola]

29. Well of course...

I cant be called a murderer until I am convicted of murder...

I figured this thread was dealing with potential charges against him...not eventual conviction...

[TAH6988]

31. True, you make a valid point

But he has not been accused of trafficking, only buying.

[OneTwentyoNine]

34. No but if you or me were arrested...

With the amount that Limbaugh has supposedly been buying you and I would be charged with trafficking plain and simple.

The police,feds whoever take a look at your stash and determine you have more than what you could use and charge you accordingly. But of course all the rules are out when you make $20 million per year.

David

[drdigi420]

72. Doesnt matter if he was actually selling

The silly drug laws are based on amount.

He had enough that they would charge him with 'intent to distribute', if he werent rich, white, and rebuplican.

Over 4,000 pills can also be charged as trafficking, which has a mandatory minimum (supported by Rush) of 25 years.

[Deja Q]

82. If software "piracy" can mean more than just SELLING software illegally

Then the use of the word "trafficking" can be perverted as well.

[realFedUp]

6. He can't be taking the thousands of pills he purchased

himself....

[TAH6988]

10. Not sure

Can't tell over what period these "thousands of pills" were purchased. Somehow I doubt even Rush was selling that crap. But time will tell.

[charlie]

14. 4350 pills over 47 days

was one purchasing binge alleged by his housekeeper.

[TAH6988]

18. That's a lot

of painkillers! Will be interesting to see what the actual truth is. Looks like ole Rush will soon have a conviction to contend with. Would this be considered a felony?

[Frodo]

60. Oh yes.

If true, it would certainly be a felony in Florida.

I do have to keep in mind, however, that the woman in question is likely cutting a deal to avoid prosecution/jail time. While the thrust of the story may be true, I'd count it likely that this part is a lie to juice up her story for the cops/media, or to avoid potential tax ramifications to her.

I can't see any human being able to consume that many painkillers (you should have seen what one did to my wife), and multi-multi millionaires don't sell drugs.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. You are right he can not be using all those pills himself

he was obviously selling or supplying someone for whatever reason. I thought about this yesterday and could not imagine why he would do that when he is so rich anyway. So I thought he must be stockpiling, however that made no sense. If you stockpile that many pills you must admit you are planning on using for a long long time. I imagine Rush always though he would quit soon.

I think someone less wealthy found out he was doing this and was blackmailing him, forcing him to supply them enough to resell.

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. i doubt it

when i was using, especially near the end when i was paranoid, i'd buy as much as i could lay my hands on because getting it was just too damn hard and scarey. no way would i have sold any of it because that would just mean i'd have to go out and find more sooner.

i peg rush as a hoarder like me.

[Zero Gravitas]

44. hoarding

Someone in another thread pointed out that he could be hoarding the pills. If he's an addict he might be worried about the supply drying up for some reason and stockpiled extra supply when it was available. Afterall its not like he'd need the money from selling them.

Although... judging by some of he descisions being made by Neocons in the Bush* regime, maybe he's been giving pills to von Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz of Arabia for free...

[Junkdrawer]

15. Rush - supplier to the BushCo inner circle???

Hmmmm.....

[Fridays Child]

76. If he were taking them all, it would have been 90/day at one point.

Someone here figured that out yesterday, based on how pills many the housekeeper got for him in one 40-day period.

[charlie]

7. Could be they were waiting

for Rush to Really Step In It before reeling him in. It's not unheard of for the law to hold off if they think their target is going to do something that'll seal their legal fate.

Or maybe Rush wasn't the prime target. Could be they were after the dealers and dimbulb was a happy side catch.

[Brian Sweat]

53. To be honest, I hope Rush was not the primary target.

I seriously doubt he was selling to anyone, so it doesn't do much good to target him. The supplier (or the supplier's supplier) should be the real target.

What probably happened was that they caught his house keeper and when she said she could get them Rush, they jumped at the chance for some easy publicity.

[hexola]

71. I doubt that...

I think the Fla legal system would be VERY eager to overlook the "big fat fly" caught in their web...

I think the maid did this herself...I'm picturing her as a narc. She perhaps knew, or realized that Rush was not going to get busted - but all the other people she narced-out did. She did some quick thinking...and figured a way to have a few million in the can when she gets out of jail...

NOTE: in this post "narc" = user turned police informant

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. I spoke to a former prosecutor yesterday...

I laid out the situation with Pigboy and the numbers involved. He said that considering the numbers, he would bring Intent to Distribute and Trafficking charges against him in a New York Second.

5100+ highly abusable and highly trafficable pills ain't no personal stash. Period.

Keep in mind: People get Intent to Distribute charges laid against them for a lot, lot less.

[sendero]

20. I agree with you...

But I wonder if the decision as to whether or not to press "intent to distribute" charges is up to the prosecution or a grand jury. Even if a grand jury orders an indictment, I'm pretty sure the prosecution can either drop it or simply not make the case at trial.

Bottom line, I *really* doubt they will get him for that. And unless he was actually distributing, IMHO it would be wrong to convict him of it.

[bearfartinthewoods]

22. did you get into whether the tapes and emails would be admissable

as evidence? thanks

[TAH6988]

26. Good point

Not sure what the laws are in Florida...are you allowed to wear a wire and tape any one you wish to? And, since she was not an agent of "the Gov't," why would the tapes not be admissable? The cops did nothing wrong, right?

[Timefortruth]

35. It is hearsay, and I think an exception to the hearsay rule

is an “admission against interest.” Assuming that it is legal to tape someone in Florida if only one party knows about the recording, which is a typical statute, the tape may be admissible. Rush told her something which amounts to a confession to a crime, or an admission against his own interest and this is normally allowed in a trial. I think.

That also assumes that the housekeeper was acting on her own and not as an agent of the police. I think that even if she were acting under police direction it would still be admissible, but there may be the issue of entrapment.

[Frodo]

62. I'd assume the opposite

I think in Florida it is illegal to tape the conversation herself (remember the couple in FL who "accidentaly" taped that Gingritch conference call that leant the lie to something they were claiming? They were charged with illegal recording) (I think they got off).

But I can't imagine why it would be illegal for her to do it for the cops... presuming there was some sort of warrant.

[Timefortruth]

66. The distinction may be that one party to the conversation

knew it was being recorded. Everything changes when neither party knows. And I do agree that if she were acting as an agent for the police different standards would apply and the recording would likely be legal, even if it otherwise would not be admissible. My suggestion is that he has the possibility of the defense of entrapment (it is doubtful that this defense would fly unless the jury was a bunch of dittoheads) might be available if she were acting as an agent for the authorities.

[dmr]

84. In Florida it is illegal to audio record without consent.

Anyone remember the Willets in Broward County? The husband hiding in the closet video/audio taping the wife's johns as they had sex in their bedroom? When it came time for the videos in court, they were inadmisable because it is illegal to audio tape.

[Brian Sweat]

56. Probably need more information.

If the tapes were made in a situation were Rush has a reasonable expectation of privacy, then they would be inadmissable unless they were obtaines with a warrant.

If the tapes were made in a public location, then there can be no expectation of privacy and no laws were broken in making the tapes.

[hexola]

64. Buys made in a parking lot

sounds pretty public to me...now only if that parking lot was only within 100 years of a school...(Drug Free School Zone - stiffer sentences)

...this maid may have had a clue...

I.E. She may have known how to inflict the most legal damage...

[Frodo]

69. I think HER buys were in a parknig lot

There's some confusion about exactly what is on those tapes. Some stories imply it's a tape of the parking lot buy, some say it's Rush at home when she delivers it.

What seems clear is that the parking lot is where SHE got (some of?) the drugs. Why would he meet his own maid in a parking lot to commit a crime when she worked in his house?

[hexola]

73. She was fired as maid...not drug dealer...

But - you are correct - I did dectect some confusion yesterday...

But some of the accounts I've heard include stories of Limbaugh in his Mercedes trading cigar boxes in parking lots...something about this sounds a bit made up...

[Frodo]

86. She was fired???? That changes things some

If she was fired some time ago, it calls the whole story into question. Why would he keep buying drugs from someone he had fired? Conversely, she has every reason to lie (1. she was investigated over the drug deals and tried to shift blame to a bigger fish? 2. She was a "disgruntled" former employee who made it all up?)

[Brian Sweat]

70. I'm pretty sure that the parking lot was within

100 years of a school. :)

[hexola]

77. Drug Free School Zone

To be honest - I'm not sure of the distance...but I know they exist and result in more severe sentencing.

If this was a DFSZ - they the maid (or whoever) knew exactly what they were doing in this sting...

In college, my roomate got setup this way. The narc made a point of having the deal go down on campus...(seems it even applies to collleges)

[Timefortruth]

75. Wouldn’t the reasonable expectation of privacy apply only

if the maid were acting as an agent for the police? In other words, (if you believe the maid’s version) she acted on her own when recording Rush, it wasn’t a police action, therefore no warrant is necessary.

Even if the recording itself were illegal to be made by a private citizen its contents may still be evidence if there was no state action in the creation of the tape. She could be prosecuted a la Linda Tripp for the crime, but the content of the tape could still be used. The prohibition against hearsay wouldn’t prevent the admission because the exception to the rule allowing admissions against interest would apply.

I think if the facts are as they are reported there is a good chance the tapes are evidence. The part that doesn’t pass the smell test is thatthe maid wired herself, but Roy Black will get the details about that. If the police did help the maid with the wiring and warrant may have been required then Rush gets off on that much maligned “technically” known as the constitution.

[hexola]

24. Intent to distribute...

If I have a 1/4 ounce of weed in my pocket...and they raid my house and find 2 more bagged 1/4 ounces - You could be charged with intent to distribute...all for less than 1 ounce of weed...

[bleedingheart]

25. Maybe he is the Bush Family drug connection

5000 pills? That's a lot more than one man or woman would need in a few months.

Perhaps he's the connection for all the right wing shills...

[Cheswick2.0]

30. was he selling to Nicole Bush?

We know he was selling or supplying someone.

[NicoleM]

42. Noelle

not Nicole. Please don't give Nicoles a bad name by associating us with the BFEE. :)

[quaker bill]

32. Beat me to the punch

I doubt it is true, but it is an amusing concept.

[Melinda]

36. So why now? Why NOW?

Quick, look over -------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

[zeemike]

40. My answer is

To through the liberals some red meat to chew on so they won’t see what is going on

[DemNoir]

37. Lets be realistic

What are the chances that Florida law enforcement is going to come down hard on a conservative Icon? They are slim and none I think.

[Brian Sweat]

58. South Florida DA's love headlines.

[jmanjman]

38. Before we start hoping that Rush will be going to jail for a long time...

keep a couple of things in mind. A.) The housekeeper was PAID by the NATIONAL ENQUIRER to spill details of the story. As long as she was buying pills for Rush, any amount of pills, Rush really has no case for slander even if the figure is exaggerated. I would not put it past the Enquirer to pump up the numbers to make it a bigger scandel and sell more papers. Lets face it, the Enquirer is only a step above the Globe and the other supermarket rags. B.) The housekeeper supposedly kept track of the purchases in a ledger. Doesn't anyone else find this odd? She'd have to be completely bat-shit crazy to keep written records of illegal drug purchases. Why would anyone do that? Its a completely irrational thing to do. All this being said, I do think that there is something to the story and he probably was abusing pills. He'll probably get charged with buying but I don't think there's really any credible evidence out there right now that points to him selling. Just stop and think about it.

[charlie]

43. Nixon kept tapes

Irrational, but there you go.

She may have done it as insurance against the day the law got wise to them and Limbaugh, with his flying wedge of lawyers she could never afford, tried to leave her hanging.

[NicoleM]

46. The Enquirer usually gets this stuff right.

Truth is a defense against slander. He could still sue if they make this look worse than it really is.

I don't find it at all odd that she kept a ledger. She didn't want to go down with the ship. If they bust her, she can give 'em a much bigger fish to fry if she's got some documentation.

I don't think he was selling, but as somebody said before, most people would be charged with trafficking in this situation, if the quantities are accurately reported.

[charlie]

55. As Agent K said about the hotsheets

"They're the best investigative reporting on the planet" :)

[hexola]

47. Ok, I thought about it...

The Enquierer has more crediblity than you think...As Jerry Nachman put it..."They are almost never wrong about this kind of story"...They do their homework...They risk major lawsuits, so they have to cover their asses. Why would they blow this scoop by fudging the numbers(sort of a minor detail, really)...makes no sense to me.

As for the "ledger"...I think you could call any "owe list" (dealers often front drugs) a "ledger" And once you are selling alot - it becomes hard to keep track of the cash...so like any good business might do - a record is kept...

If he split his "order" with 2 or 3 other friends - that would bring his consumption down to realistic levels...but that would also be "dealing"...

[ProfessorGAC]

49. One Caveat To Your Doubts

CNN has indeed confirmed that the authorities in Florida are investigating Limbaugh, and have been for months.

So, the whole evidentiary bundle is not based on the housekeepers Enquirer story. This is just what brought it public. The facts that the cops were investigating it would be true whether this woman sold the story or not.

Lastly, the your question about the ledger isn't as mysterious as you make it. She could have wanted proof of a big fish, in case she got caught. She might have been planning extortion and wanted proof to get $. She might have even been a plant. There are many reasons why this is completely logical.
The Professor

[Junkdrawer]

50. The Florida Statute doesn't require "selling" to define "trafficking"

Florida Law

Florida Statutes

893.135 Trafficking; mandatory sentences;
(c)1. Any person who knowingly sells, purchases, manufactures, delivers, or brings into this state, or who is knowingly in actual or constructive possession of, 4 grams or more of oxycodone, or 4 grams or more of any mixture containing any such substance, but less than 30 kilograms of such substance or mixture, commits a felony of the first degree, which felony shall be known as "trafficking in illegal drugs," punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. If the quantity involved:
a. Is 4 grams or more, but less than 14 grams, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 3 years, and the defendant shall be ordered to pay a fine of $50,000.
b. Is 14 grams or more, but less than 28 grams, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 15 years, and the defendant shall be ordered to pay a fine of $100,000.
c. Is 28 grams or more, but less than 30 kilograms, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 25 calendar years and pay a fine of $500,000.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

And his attorney is letting this guy speak for 3 HOURS today before the state presents its case??? Talk about self will run riot.

[hexola]

51. As I suspected...

Thanks for the reference...

[pschoeb]

65. Ledger makes perfect sense with that many purchases

Also it is no risk to keep, it's not likely she was writing Oxycontin 500 pills, she most likely had a nomenclature or even just a symbol for each type. It would be hard to use this against her unless she divulged what each thing meant, since she is aiding the investigation I assume she divulged it.

Patrick Schoeb

[hexola]

67. The Ledger

EIB - 4000 @ $8000

[rocktivity]

85. I was going to say that we only have her word for what's in the ledger

as well as only her word for Rush's ordering 43K pills over 47 days. But her keeping a ledger makes it sound more credible, combined with Rush's lawyer paying her a "debt" of $80,000. How do you end up owing a housekeeper THAT kind of money?


rocknation

[bushisanidiot]

48. Boil Ass's Ego Probably Had Him Convinced

that he couldn't get caught in a 'Bush' state.. what with his buddy as governor and all. Apparently too many people know about it now and Jeb can't save his boil covered ass. :) :)

[kathee]

68. My neighbor

is at this moment in a county jail for getting prescription drugs illegally. She was somehow getting scripts filled without a doc's prescription, and this is her second bust this year. She screwed up her probation, and is bound to be locked up for a really long time.

She wasn't distributing, but she was falsifying information to get em. Her bf is fairly sure it was Vicodin and perhaps Hydrocodone. It wasn't even that much, but she will be gone for a long time.

I never did figure out how she did it. Im guessing she must have stolen precription pads and forged a doc's sig? Called it in? Wonder how Rush did it?

[Catherine Vincent]

74. I don't know guys...

Rush may be a pompous windbagged asshole, but he is not dumb. There is no way he would be stupid enough to hoard all those drugs.

[hexola]

79. The Drugs take control...

of the intellect...stupidity has nothing to do with it...

the human mind can RATIONALIZE anyting...

Opiates - If you've ever known a junkie...the want to do it...they think they can do it...they think its ok, and that they can maintain balance. They love it...but finally the consumption and preoccupation takes over. And they do stupid stuff...make bad decisions, take chances, hang out with strange people...just to get the drugs...

[Fridays Child]

78. The war on drugs is really a war on the poor and minorities.

He'll get off with little, if any, punishment.

[janekat]

80. link to Florida Drug Statutes

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0893/SEC135.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0893->Section%20135

[Junkdrawer]

81. Drudge: NAT. ENQUIRER held back reporting on Limbaugh & pills for 2 yrs.

The NATIONAL ENQUIRER held back reporting on Limbaugh and pills for nearly two years, a publishing source tells the DRUDGE REPORT.

The tabloid's editors felt more confidence reporting the pill charge after police began an investigation.