Something that is, in my opinion, a big problem for DU

[BrutalEntropy]

Here is part of something I posted on a different thread:

People put far too much stock in the post counts here. I understand that it is essential to figure out when we have a freeper in our ranks, but you do no one any good by accusing people of being a neocon because they don't have a 1000+ posting record.

I, for example, am an EXTREMELY liberal person. I run a website, http://www.bePOOR.org, and a livejournal (http://brutalentropy.livejournal.com, although a lot of my posts are friends only due to some personal drama with my girlfriend's family). I post on DU occasionally, but read it EVERY DAY. I read a significant number of posts in the LBN, GD, and GDP forums... I don't post often, mainly because a lot of other people tend to say what I would say before I had a chance to say it.

Just because someone's view on a certain subject differs from you, and their post count is lower than yours, does NOT make them wrong/a freeper, nor does it detract from the validity of their comment (usually, although I will say I've seen some really stupid stuff posted on here from people that are obviously neocons in disguise).

To be honest, I'm getting REALLY sick of seeing stuff like this, bashing a person or what they're saying merely because they are new to the website. Do you remember when you first signed up for DU? Did you have 1000+ posts right off the bat? I didn't think so.

I've cut some of the post that wasn't really relevant to this discussion. This is a trend that I have noticed for some time on DU. I've been a member here since November 2004. Almost 10 months. I only have 37 posts total, mainly because I am active on a few other online communities (and try not to spend all of my time on the computer). Does that make me a freeper? Does it make whatever I'm saying less powerful or relevant? It really shouldn't.

I'd be interested to know what other DUers think about this. Also, this is the first thread I've ever created at DU, everything else has been responses to other posts... so, hi DU. :-)

[Gabi Hayes]

1. how DARE you come here with such a low post count and question

the wisdom of the elders????

ha, I kid because I love

looks to me like you're putting your money where your mouth is, which is more than many here do, I'd wager

a hearty handshake and a warm kudos for your paranoia puncturing

[Zensea]

2. I agree

It's been going on for a lot longer than since you've been here also.
DU is an interesting place but it can at times be unfriendly.

[Booster]

22. It can be unfriendly even if you've been here for 3 years. ha

[BrutalEntropy]

well...

I can understand... many people here on DU (myself included) are highly passionate about politics and the wrongs of this world. It's hard not to get overwhelmed at times, but I think one of the main problems with the left is in-fighting, whereas the right seems to have the capability to put aside their differences in most instances and focus on what they consider to be important (usually wedge issues).

I believe that this country would be better off with nationalized health care. Am I going to get all pissy and angry with someone if they don't agree with me? Maybe, but I make a concerted effort not to do so. It's just an example, but hopefully you get my point.

[RegexReader]

38. sometimes it feels like living in a red state

RegexReader
$USA =~ s/Republican/Democrat/ig;

[ContraBass Black]

3. I"m a quiet DUer.

I've been around for a while.

[SammyBlue]

7. Same here. . .3 years and I'm just over 300 posts.

[madrchsod]

4. your links don`t work

i`m not getting anything but check name

[charlie]

6. It's the commas

He left commas in the URLs. The sites are both active.

[BrutalEntropy]

30. oopsie!

yeah, I didn't use the URL tags, and it auto-formatted it with the commas.

Try these:

http://www.bepoor.org

http://brutalentropy.livejournal.com

[libhill]

5. "Neocons in disguise?"

Where? Get a rope - :)

[cally]

8. This drives me crazy about DU

I'm sorry you've felt unwelcomed. I'm not sure exactly why it happens, but it does. :hi: and welcome oldtimer to DU.

[BrutalEntropy]

33. clarification:

I don't feel unwelcomed necessarily. Hell, I'm still here and posting after 10 months... but I just think that it engenders a sense of hostility for some people that really shouldn't be there.

I just think that people should be judged on their message, not by how often they've posted.

[magellan]

9. Agreed, good post

I've been here the same amount of time. Never got this abuse myself but have seen others get it, and sometimes the attacks make me wince. Just because someone has a differing viewpoint does not automatically make them the enemy in my eyes.

[BrutalEntropy]

35. same here...

I've never actually been the recipient of this, it's just been an observation. As I said, I'm borderline insane when it comes to how progressive I am, so I think most of the things I post on DU are considered "acceptable", but if we automatically close our minds to dissenting opinions, we are no better than the republitards.

[Cocoa]

10. the DU rules recognize the problem

the mods will delete such accusations.

edit: one thing the rules don't, and really can't, address is the sloppy use of the word neocon. It's such an important word, it really means something, but it's thrown around so loosely it looses* some of its meaning.

*and the misspelling of lose is another problem.

[BrutalEntropy]

36. indeed

True, I should have used my other tried and true word: republitards. ;-)

[DistressedAmerican]

11. Posting Such A Thing Woith Only 37 Posts Can Mean Only One Thing...

You are a newbie!:toast:
Welcome!

[BrutalEntropy]

37. thanks! nt

[HEyHEY]

12. Hey I was constantly insulted today for daring to point out

If people shoot at the army, the army is within their rights to shoot back.

[Zynx]

13. My brother registered re: Katrina and was promptly banned for no reason.

He's most certainly a Democrat, and got banned after a day's worth of posts without violating any of the TOS, probably because he got into a theory dispute with a couple of the "anarchists" here in Pitt's thread and was advocating harsh measures for dealing with the more violent criminal elements in New Orleans - rapists, murderers, arsonists, etc. Neither position violates TOS.

Emails haven't been returned, and he's not very happy that he got kicked from a place he's lurked for a couple years at and donated money to because he wasn't "toeing the line."

It was my understanding that DU didn't have a "line."

[libhill]

20. I've done some pretty foul mouthed

ranting in here, because the Repukes and neocons drive me nuts - but I have yet to be banned. Maybe they thought he was advocating violence. ??? Not finger pointing, just speculation.

[The Magistrate]

14. Forum Rules, Sir, Forbid Disparragement Of Members Owing To Post Count

Please use the alert function in such an instance, and we will deal with it.

[Pobeka]

19. I didn't know that. That's great! n/t

[BrutalEntropy]

24. awesome

That's really good to know... I'll be honest, I've never even read the rules. Like I said, I mainly just read the posts, and occasionally will respond to someone elses post if I feel I have something constructive to add to the discussion. I figured reading the rules was pointless because I know that reading posts and replying to them with (ideally) useful information wasn't against the rules ;-)

*goes to take a look at the rules now*

[BrutalEntropy]

39. addendum:

Once again, thanks for letting me know that... I think one of the problems is that a lot of times it is subtle. For instance, a DUer made a comment on a post that had a listing of the post counts of every person in the thread, broken down by which side of the issue they were supporting. The implication was, at least in my mind, that the side that had more of the people posting with less than 1000 posts was "wrong" or less applicable.

[lildreamer316]

45. THANK you.

I was really offended there. 'Preciate you noticing.

[spuddonna]

15. Excellent point, and I did exactly the same thing for months...

Believe it or not, my first posts (not just responses) were THIS WEEK!!

I've seen people accused of being trolls just because they point out a differing view than the poster...

Thought we were the open minded ones? :)

[Pobeka]

16. It takes some "thick skin" with 75,000 possible repliers.

Repliers, is that a plural noun?

Anyway, I think the key is not to let it put you off. I've been hanging out here for almost 3 years now, and sometimes people just get a little too personal, and forget to debate the facts, not the poster.

In general I think you'll find most of the people here pretty good and treat you with respect, and if they don't, use the ignore feature.

But also realize, there are times when DU has more than the usual number of trolls hanging about, and having a low post count does make you look suspicious, but have a heart because that's just a form of racial profiling that liberals would never get caught doing at DU.

:yoiks:

[libhill]

32. Actually

it's moran profiling - :)

[BrutalEntropy]

40. oh yeah

I understand that trolls are an issue... especially given such a large user base. I've been a member of http://slashdot.org for over 7 years, and they have over 800,000 members or so, so I'm quite used to seeing trolls and flamewars.

As far as being put off, well... I'm still here :-D

[lildreamer316]

47. BTW Welcome.

and great post. Good to have you!

[nookiemonster]

17. Welcome to DU, brutalentropy!

:)

eom

[Drum]

18. For what it's worth,

I as a new member haven't encountered this.

I discovered the DU only in mid-August, and joined as a contributor immediately, so I could see that pledge-drive boxing glove knock Junior's block off. And that was only the beginning of the fun.

Very glad to be here, 2 weeks and 100+ posts later, and I will keep going as this is a unique site in my opinion. I'm especially grateful to have discovered DU during these trying times, and find great comfort in hearing other voices like mine, not to mention the wealth of information such a large web can lead one to.

Everyone has been terrifically welcoming, and I have not yet seen nor encountered any rancor on low-post-counts.

That said, it is still a pleasure to see those with longer investments here who are attentive to the tone and tenor of the community.

From NYC, I salute you!

[BrutalEntropy]

43. just to make sure I was clear...

I *LOVE* DU.

It is easily my favorite website, and I check it every day... multiple times a day.

Also, I've never been on the receiving end of this treatment, it's just something I've noticed happening to other people

Welcome to DU!

[Drum]

49. you were absolutely clear. enjoy the community!

[cynatnite]

21. It still goes on with high post counts

I've gotten accused of being rw or freeper for not having the same views as the majority.

These days, I just blow it off and move on.

[BeFree]

23. Hey,

This board is full of differing viewpoints, has been for the 4 years I've been reading it. Hell, some folks even disagree with me! lol

But there have been a lot, A LOT of freepers come in here, in disguise, trying to disrupt us. We have a keen eye for them and sometimes new posters raise our suspicions.

Besides that, there is also a lot of misunderstanding of feelings since the written word is so hard to decipher and in my case hard to express clearly.

If you ain't a freeper ya got nothinng to worry about.

And ya know, I'm sure I came close to being tombstoned once or twice. LOL

[instantkarma]

25. 3 1/2 years here.

over three years having DU as my homepage. And as of today, BBC is my new homepage. I also have deleted DU from my bookmarks. I've gotten a lot of good information here, information I'm not sure I would have gotten anywhere else. Nonetheless, I've gotten tired of wading through the seemingly ever-increasing amount of (IMO) bullshit posts to get to the small percentage of useful information. I give up. May God have mercy on my soul.

[Palladin]

26. Freepers

Freepers generally aren't bright or subtle enough to be really effective trolls. If you suspect someone of being a false-flag freeper, the best thing would be not to start flaming her but instead start punching a few Free Republic hotbuttons. Ask the suspect what she thinks about President Bush for example, or Islamofascists, or undocumented immigrants. A well-placed slur on redneck Christian fundamentalists from red states will also do the job.

[gemlake]

27. You just got your post count up!

Congratulations. And so have I.

I've never had any trouble here, love DU.

[melody]

28. Amen

I agree completely. I've three times been accused of being a freeper simply because I disagree with something and (my heavens!) think the US is overall a good thing (minus the monsters now in office...meaning all the way back to Reagan, with Clinton the only slightly variant speed bump between). I "only" have 200+ posts, but I've been reading and posting here (under two different IDs - I lost the first one because my email address was dead) since DU's inception.

[housewolf]

29. Thanks for your post

I had the same thoughts and feelings here at times. Thanks for bringing it out into the open for discussion.

[BrutalEntropy]

44. no prob

I felt that it was a necessary thing to bring up...

I am glad that it's been well received, I definitely wasn't try to be antagonistic or anything... just trying to bring the subject up for discussion

[BQueen]

31. Sad, but true....

been here so long that I'm over 1000, but I didn't post much for a loooong time (if I had nothing to add, I don't post to "see" myself talk)

Have been told I'm not liberal enough (and in the context, unethical and borderline criminal) to be here simply because I once worked for the prosecutor's office (what, liberals can't be in law enforcement? I figure they need a few of us to rein the rest in...)

Post counts are BS -- click any profile and you can see if they've racked them up quickly, which the "baddies" know to do by trolling the Lounge and answering all the "what's your favorite....?" queries.

Beyond that, it troubles me that some treat liberal newbies who have just discovered the site badly, AND that some also may turn off people who are finally waking up. We need all the converts we can get.

[Cleita]

34. Well, there are those with 1000+ counts who have been here

for years, who definitely aren't liberals. They are predictable in the threads they show up in to post carefully worded RW points and then they disappear. So you are right, post counts aren't a reliable indicator of a freeper.

[fishnfla]

41. Freepers and trollers and disrupters, OH MY!!!

It does not matter what your post count is, if you post something that runs against the group think, you are suspect.

No other opinions need apply.

even if you have a link. :hi:

[KerryOn]

42. I'm with you...

I to have been bashed for the low post count. It really burns me up inside, but for the most part I ignore it.

I probably hung out here for several months before making my first post. I found it to be a great way to keep up on the latest news, and it gave me a place to cry after Kerry lost the election.

I wounder how many of those 1,000+ posts are simply kicks, or just one or two words, with n/t?

[BrutalEntropy]

46. .

I've often wondered the exact same thing.

It's really easy to just say "kick" or post a simple agreement (hell, even I'm guilty of that sometimes)

[really annoyed]

48. I've been lurking since late 2001...

I just started posting before the 2004 election. I finally decided to get involved with the community.

I lurk at most message boards just looking for news and commentary. I got banned at another board because I wasn't snobby enough for them - it was a fashion board.

Love this board though.

[applegrove]

50. Why not hang around for a while and see how it works. Freepers

log on - have low posts and then get booted off. We welcome all new DUers. But we have a right to be wary.

I don't know what you are talking about - I pointed out today the really low post count of the pro gun thread. I've noticed that is a pattern of pro-gun threads. I know nothing about the people who posted..just that like always - a good portion of the people who posted for the guns had very low thread histories.

Freepers, like anyone, hang in groups. I don't think it is in-appropriate to point out the "newbie" posters on certain topics. The rates of newbies to non newbies... when it is already an established pattern that certain posts show this pattern. With Gun threads..the low post history DUers are usually "for the gun". Often someone with 15 posts will be leading the thread.

Nobody says you cannot do that. But - we'd have to be fools not to be wary of people until they have invested a bit of time at the DU. And then they can come up with rules.

We also welcome new DUers all the time.

Hang around for a while and you'll get the ebb and flow of freepers, low post count DUers, welcomes to low poster DUers. ETc.

What is the link to the post where you were so questioned by the way?

[bloom]

51. well

I don't bash people because of low post counts - though I am more suspicious - especially when people with low post counts are critical of DU.

[Redstone]

52. Christ, I don't even know what my OWN post count is,

(and don't anyone DARE look up my profile and tell me, because I don't want to know), so I don't notice what anyone else's is.

Unless they're a pretty obvious troll, in which case I'll look and factor that into my suspicion.

PS: Your "first thread created here" is pretty damned good. Especially compared with whatever lame thing I probably first started, I can't remember what it was.

Redstone

[Orrex]

53. If this is your first thread, you're clearly a freeper 8^)

Your points are excellent. I don't know that my post-count has ever been a factor, but I've repeatedly been accused of not being "liberal enough" or "a real liberal." I've also been accused of being part of big pharma and of having a hidden far-right agenda.

There are, sadly, elements of DU that are every bit the kneejerk attackers that we commonly perceive freepers to be. It would be nice if those posters could furnish a list of criteria defining what a "real" liberal is and how a false liberal like me might go about becoming more real.

[PatriotGames]

54. I agree. Some DUers are VERY quick to trun on their own.

It's a shame.

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. It just makes you

too quiet. *g*

Low post counts can get you some rough treatment from a few people.. so can not being a member of the DNC. ;) But, it's still a good place to hang out.

-----------------------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
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