I am dismayed!!!! I am dismayed!!!!

[BonjourUSA]

I had promised not speaking anymore about your elections, because I am
French and I know neither your candidates nor their policy.

But I just watch Arnold answering questions about his policy when he is Governor. I don't understand anything. The journalist said that Arnold is first in the polls !!??

A Barnum style campaign, empty answers to simple questions nothing else than stereotypes, no answers to more complex questions - a blank, "It's a very interesting problem (or question, I don't remember). Like we say in France "Avec moi demain on rase gratis" ("With me, everybody will be shaved free tomorrow"). The French TV just aired 4 or 5 minutes... A real nightmare !!

Perhaps you get into the habit of seeing Arnold, us not. What a chock !

[Mari333]

1. I am dismayed but not surprised anymore

I have come to expect very little , at this point, from many of the US citizenry....Their refusal to study the issues, their insatiable need to back a candidate who is a moron , their consistent justification in backing policies that destroy the world. Im just tired of living here and watching it destroy my country, daily.

[_NorCal_D_]

42. Yes, it is tragic.

Most of the people I know who are going to vote for Ah-nuld, are doing so because they believe the rhetoric about him 'being a champion of people'.

Most know that he is nothing more than a Neanderthal but think that he will 'surround himself with smart people'.

It's very reminiscent of the Bush campaign... :(

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. Arnold running and recieving support is an embarassment..i don't believe

he is as high in the polls as the republican control corporate news says he is....Arnold will NOT be Gov. unless these new computer voting machines are rigged as we believe they are...tell your countrymen to NOT allow Diebold or ES&S voting machines in your country!

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. You are so much more

intelligent that a lot of Americans! They are voting for a "movie star" because he's "cool". Nevermind the man idolizes Hitler, abuses women and knows NOTHING about running a state. This whole Ca. recall debacle is a disgusting republican power grab for the 2004 election. The republicans are EVIL!

[joycep]

4. It's a real downer for a lot of us

It is just beyond my comprehension that he is not laughed off the podium every time he shows his face. As far as I am concerned we have some weird people here.

[Jester_11218]

5. It is called a circus

You have to realize that running for office here is primarily based on advertising. If you have money and good PR peopple you can advertise your way into office!

Simple..but sad.

[Mari333]

7. I would also call it a CircleJerk and a ClusterF*ck

:bounce:

[demnan]

6. Please pity us

we have an idiot for President most of us did not elect, a media that only concentrates on the most simplistic issues and a school system that increasingly fails to teach even the fundamentals every civilized world citizen needs.

I hope this changes soon. If we have another revolution, can we call on you again?

Nancy

[TAH6988]

10. Hold on....

Just how well did Le Pen do in the last elections in France? As I recall he was just a few percentage points behind Chirac and he finished ahead of Jospin. It's not JUST california...

[charlie]

18. That wasn't the result of empty spectacle

and buffoonery, like so many of our elections.

[TAH6988]

20. Sure seems that way

to me.

[charlie]

23. No, it wasn't

If France had US-style elections without runoffs, Le Pen wouldn't have been a contender. It was the certainty that a marginal figure like him couldn't posssibly get traction that lead the French Left to believe their fractiousness wouldn't be harmful. It wasn't an embarassing circus like our Cali situation, just an embarassing outcome.

[TAH6988]

27. You made my point

it was embarassing.

[charlie]

32. No

There wasn't an empty suit poised to become President of France. There were real contenders with real issues to consider. Coalitions are tenuous, they fall apart all the time. In this instance, their inability to form a bloc caught them flat-footed. The sight of Le Pen in the runoff was embarrassing, but the French had no need to be ashamed of how their election was conducted, not like us.

[TAH6988]

37. We have no need to be ashamed

I don't even live in California, why would I be ashamed? Le Pen was a NATIONAL disgrace, Ahnold only a regional one.

[charlie]

40. George Bush is a NATIONAL disgrace

He's the result of the empty sloganeering and tailored marketing our elections, nationwide and local, have become. Schwarzenegger is just the latest example of how far we gone down the road of politics as stage-managed pageantry. Bush gained the presidency because he was a "compassionate conservative" and the sort of swell fella folks could imagine they'd shoot the shit with over a beer. His Pop thrashed Dukakis with a campaign concerned with Flag-burning, Scary Negroes Set Loose From Prison, and membership in the ACLU. The bulk of Americans aren't swayed by consideration of issues, but reaction to platitudes and stances designed to evoke emotional responses.

Le Pen was the result of a strategic mistake on the Left, not because the French were fooled by his packaging. We do have much to be ashamed of.

[BonjourUSA]

41. Between 6 and 8% French people share Le Pen ideas.

Between 12 and 14% of the electors vote for him, often without understand what all that means.

In the last election, the left-voters only wished to afraid the Left and either they didn't vote or they voted for Le Pen (Nobody thought that Jospin could be swept at the first run). It was a success !

[TAH6988]

43. Le Pen received

17% of the votes...more than Jospin.

[charlie]

44. Because they split their votes

since they assumed that Jospin would be in the final runoff anyway, as our friend BonjourUSA explained.

[trigz]

49. Not correct...

Well, correct in the sense that Le Pen finished ahead of Jospin in the first round of the presidential elections, but that was solely because Jospin had f*cked up his entire campaign for months.

In the second round, though, Chirac beat Le Pen by a percentage of 81% to 19%. So he was, oooh well, some 30-35 million votes off. So it's a long stretch comparing France to California, or that election to anything that deals with Bush, I think, even though racism in southern France is rife.

[BJ]

8. Welcome to the U.S.A.

What is the attraction of someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger? Why does he get away with non-answers to non-questions (do you like my new-speak?).

Because, as fellow actor Rob Lowe said to Jon Stewart on last night's "The Daily Show", "(Schwarzenegger)'s a born leader."

Simple as that.

Arnold was born to lead, "geborener Führer."

[spooky3]

13. omigosh...what was Jon's reply? (eom)

[BJ]

15. As I recall, he really didn't have much to say.

He just had kind of an embarrassed smile(you'll have to watch the rebroadcast). I know I was shocked and began shouting "sieg heil" at Lowe as if he could hear me. I talk to the TV way too much.

[Drifter]

9. Please don't judge Americans ...

based on our embarrassing political situation.

Our pResident is an embarrassment
The Californias Recall is an embarrassment
The Iraq war is an embrassment

Most Americans agree with these statements, and I think that make them (us) decent people in general.

Cheers
Drifter

[bearfartinthewoods]

26. if most Americans agree why will Arnold be elected and why are we

sweating the 04'. it does us not good to think we are anymore than we are....hopefully 51%.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[haymaker]

52. One more thing, double O,

Arnold will not be "elected". He won't get more votes than people who vote against the recall, or for retaining Davis. So don't get confused, this ain't about Democracy at all, and it ain't no election.

[synthia]

58. baloney...d. nile

the country is split 50 50. pretending it isn't is beyond silly.
out of respect for the DUers who are working hard to stop him, i shouldn't have said he'll win but crap, i can read the polls and he is ahead.

on edit to say that i have AGAIN forgotten to log off she-bear before posting..........aaaaagh!!!!!!!!!!
bearfart

[DuctapeFatwa]

11. He has the most money, and he is famous. What he says doesnt matter

His movies are very popular.

[DarkPhenyx]

12. Bonjour mon ami Francais! Ca va bien?

Don't worry about your confusion. The rest of us here are just as confused. Unfortunately it does seem to be the way that American politics are going. Anyone willing to stand up and give the difficult answers, which are invariably unpopular with someone, dosen't get elected. The shallow bastards that don't answer get elected. Truly a sad state of affairs.

[IrateCitizen]

14. Welcome to American politics -- a reflection of American culture!

American culture has become completely shallow, unfulfilling and consumption-driven. It has nothing to do with SUBSTANCE, but is all about IMAGE.

American politics is just a reflection of that emptiness. Schwartzenegger's campaign is just an example. This is the country where some 48% of those who voted voted for Bush, remember? :puke:

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. substance/image...why does clark come to mind

before he even declared he was lauded because of his military image.

[Brucey]

16. In America,

politics and entertainment and news are all blurring together. This will happen to the rest of the world also. Celebrities are worshiped, smart people are teased. Americans are poorly educated, media-fed morons, overly zealous patriots (like jr. high school cheerleaders), and among the most conservative, wasteful, and unethical people on earth. Well, not all of us! There are many, many people in the US who are ashamed of what is happening and we are trying hard to change things. It is difficult when up against a macho celebrity.

[punpirate]

17. Okay, my understanding is...

... that Chirac is moderately right of the center in France, yes? But, the French voted for him, no?

Now, without changing a single opinion of Chirac's about governance, imagine him to be to the far left in this country.

Now, you can imagine how people here would vote (by our estimation) for a moderate center-right candidate such as Schwarzenegger without a single thought about his qualifications....

And, yes, in actuality, Schwarzenegger is our LePin. Blustering, ignorant and playing to people's emotions.

At least he hasn't invoked God, as has Bush.... *smile* But, that's his only saving grace thus far.

Yes, the sensible among us are embarrassed by this electoral circus going on, but, then, we've been embarrassed by such for some number of years now.

In truth, Schwarzenegger is this California generation's Ronald Reagan. And the nation loved Ronald Reagan....

Yup, we are all crazy as fucking loons.... Imagine your whole country spouting the wisdom of LePin. That is where we are now in our political history.

Cheers.

[BonjourUSA]

25. I don't agree with you

Le Pen is a real fascist (xenophobe, militarist....) I don't beleive Arnold shares these same polical values. I hope so, or if I am wrong do as we did, walk by millions in the streets.

[punpirate]

33. He supports the people who do....

He employs the same methods to get elected as they do. He seeks power for power's sake--that is the essence of his admiration for Hitler's political gifts.

He's a fascist, and a well-groomed and wealthy one, too.

That's why he has the fascination of the people of California.

Millions in the streets do not mean anything, when the image on the television tells the average voter something else entirely. The gift of the right in this country is to ignore protest, to see it as meaningless.

Le Pen is an older version of Schwarzenegger, and Le Pen does not make movies with himself as a powerful figure. Image is everything, these days.

I know it's difficult to understand from the French perspective, but many Americans do not _think_ about politicians and their aims. They _watch_ them on television and form their opinions from what they see.

Cheers.

[Buns_of_Fire]

19. You have an excellent grasp of the situation

Most of us are onlookers, too, not being California residents. The good people of that state are going to have to sort this one out themselves.

[liberalmuse]

21. How do you think Bush got where he is?

After successfuly installing one stupid, vacuous man into power, the Republicans aren't going to stop there. They don't need intelligent leaders--only someone who is easily manipulated and willing to tow the party line. The more stupid and politically green, the better. For some reason, many Americans prefer a brand name over substance these days. It's very disappointing.

[Iverson]

22. alors ...

Le gens n'est pas tres intelligent. Rien n'aime pas l'ecole, mais ils aiment le television. Vous reconnaissez Nixon, Reagan, etc.. C'est tout la meme chose, mais Bush II est tres stupide, et les fous qui aiment Bush 2 et le television aiment Arnold Schwarzenmerdetete aussi.

Pardonnez-moi pour le pauvre Francis.

[BonjourUSA]

30. L'important est de se comprendre.

And your French is better than my English. Some time I am afraid to irk you when I butcher English :toast:

[Iverson]

34. sante

:toast:

[zeemike]

36. your English is fine

You must remember that not all Americans are good at English either.
And I like hearing from people in other countries, so please post here whenever you like.

[Brian Sweat]

56. You're afraid to irk us?

We who expect the rest of the world to speak english. Your english as almost as good as the average American's and far better than the average American (including myself) can do with any other language.

[ewagner]

24. I am also confused

I cannot see how anyone can possibly support Schwarzeneger!

I have come to the conclusion that what is happening in California has nothing to do with politics but is rather some kind of wierd social phenonomen closely akin to mass hysteria

Worse yet, the media, who should ABSOLUTELY KNOW BETTER, took this guy seriously from the start and continue to give him credibility he doesn't deserve. Just like they did with Bush in the debates against Gore. (When Bush didn't actually drool in the debate, they proclaimed him the winner)

[punpirate]

38. What was Hitler's effect on Germany...

... but to create mass hysteria?

[janekat]

29. Help! If we have another Revolutionary War will you help us again?

You helped us overthrow ONE King George.

[BonjourUSA]

35. If we aren't being "americanized" soon !

The law rules the account of the campaign funds of each French candidate. If they spend over this account their election is cancelled. We can't see a Barnum style campaign but the debates are becoming lower.

[trof]

31. America has lost its collective mind.

And the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
I have no explanation.
"chock": typo? crock? or shock?
As far as I am concerned you are welcome here to comment on anything you like. A fresh, "outside" point of view is what we need.
Merci.
:hi:

[dofus]

39. A friend of mine who lives in California said

"It's a scary prospect. It may be that there are more people who would prefer an outrageous person than a dull person."

[tom_paine]

45. "A Barnum style campaign" -- damn that was well said!

Yes, Imperial Amerika is moving away from what a Free Nation should look like.

Also, Kalifornia has electronic touchscreen "voting" (I like to call them Stalin Machines, after his old comment "He who casts the vote decides nothing; he who counts the votes decides everything") which means that Arnold may "win" no matter what.

That is one of the difficulties with being Overlorded by Liars and Third-World stye voting (even if the machines are "the latest technology"), is that one cannot trust ANYTHING.

If Arnold "wins", how could we tell if that was real? We can't. Just like the Old Soviet Union.

But I also agree that the condition of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika are much closer to pampered house slaves than Free People (which technically, we are not anymore).

[kentuck]

46. A perfect example of a good education system...

and vice-versa..

[Le Taz Hot]

47. As a Californian

let me just say that you have every right to have an opinion on any election AND to express that opinion.

I can tell you that Democrats all over California have been working non-stop walking precincts, attending anti-Republican events and pro-Democrat events ("No on Recall," "Yes on Bustamante" and "No on 54"), phoning registered Democrats to ensure they get out and vote and doing massive e-mail campaigns -- to name just a few of our activities. Remember, all those efforts, being held all over the state, have gotten ZERO publicity.

Don't let the reich wing press and dubious polls (that swing wildly) convince you that all Californians are that stupid. The stupidity lies only in the California Republicans and those who are star struck by some overrated "actor" who obviously has NO respect for the female of the species.

And, if by some fluke, he DOES make it into the governor's mansion, I assure you he will not have a moment's peace. He will STILL have a Democratic Lt. Governor, Attorney General, two Senators, and a state legislature to deal with. In other words, he'll be a lame duck unable to pass ANYTHING. Not to mention the 24/7 vigils outside the state house and governor's mansion.

Don't lose hope yet.

[shance]

48. Hi Le Taz *** Thanks for the upbeat post.

Im in LA and going to a NO ON RECALL in the Palisades at 12:30.

Thanks for your words. Needed them today. There is an article in the LA Times where a GOP operative says Schwartzenegger is not fit for Governor (like that is a surprise**). Check out the Times if you get a chance.

take care***

[carolinayellowdog]

50. Always look on the bright side

Bonjour, ami!

An anecdote from Maxine Hong Kingston's new memoir, reviewed this week in the New York Times Book Review: Kingston returned home from her father's funeral to find her house engulfed in flames, and her just-completed manuscript of a novel, the only copy, detroyed. Her mother, who always looked on the bright side, found something positive to say about the events of that horrendous day. It sure was a good thing Daddy died before the house burned down, so he wouldn't have to worry about his daughter's misfortunes.

When the SCOTUS gang of five installed * in the White House, it felt to me and many of us that our democracy had just gone up in flames. If Schwarzenegger succeeds, sane Californians will feel the same way about their state. The silver lining in this scenario is that the level of outrage among Democrats will intensify so much that we will be much more determined to save this country from those who are destroying it. Not that I'm buying the Naderite line that it's actually good that Ralph helped * into the WH so that things could get terribly worse, in order that they can get better eventually. An Arnold victory will be a disaster. But it will be such a huge disaster that it will mark a turning point in the resurgence of Democrats (and democracy) in 2004.

Let's hope it doesn't happen, but if it does the Republicans may come to regret it.

CYD

[BonjourUSA]

53. We're watching an absolute "American pardoxe".

What is the American's familiar speech : "We are the defenders of the Liberty", "The USA are the model of democracy", "The rest (without to define what "the rest" is) of the world doesn't like us because it' jealous of our democracy and our economical power".... OK, let's imagine all that is true and the great majority of American believes "hard as iron" in these affirmations.

So... With many friends, we ask ourselves some questions. Why does this majority accepts, defends and even condones such an evil Patriot Act which destroys its freedom ?

To live in democracy needs critiquing the leaders. Why is this majority so often candid ? Shouldn't people be the most skeptical and the most "waggling" in the greatest democracy of the world ? (Schwarzy is only an illustration)

Of course I don't include my friends of DU who ask themselves the same questions than us but, maybe, who can answer because they live in this country.

[Brian Sweat]

54. "empty answers to simple questions"

Welcome to politics American Style.

[rini]

55. You are not the only one

We are, also dismayed.

[chadm]

57. You have to understand..its a cultural thing

A lot of Americans are really stupid...and in this election it only takes 30% to win.

[Ladyhawk]

59. My mother and brother are voting for Schwarzenegger. :(

I voted "no" on the recall and did not vote for the groping Hitler-lover.

Talking to people like my brother and mother is pointless because they themselves are fascists and don't even realize it. It's OK to hate homosexuals, invade other countries, cut social programs. They want it that way. They like it that way.

Can I move to a different country, please?