Anyone Hear About A 6 AM Appearance By Bush? Suspended Some Laws?

[DistressedAmerican]

My sister just called and said Bush came on TV at 6AM and announced that he was suspending the laws that prevented the military from engaging in police activities here in the states!

Did anyone else hear this? I do not thing she saw it. Just a report on it.

I have not heard anything on the Sun morning shows.

What do you know?

[NMDemDist2]

1. yes he suspended posse comitatis (sp?) so the marines and army

can help with the disaster

[DistressedAmerican]

5. Yeah That Is What She Said Posse Comitatus! Exactly.

Why break of dawn? Weird!

Why not being reported? Also weird.

[goforit]

31. Why???......So that no one knows about it (all rights gone)

[Darkhawk32]

6. "Did you just call me a PUSSY COMMUNIST?" ... see inside...

High-fives to anyone that can tell me where that quote is from...

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. The Watergate tapes?

(just kidding)

(sorta)

[Darkhawk32]

13. Nope... it's from a movie. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

20. I think it's from

the movie Tank w/ James Garner?

[Darkhawk32]

24. We have a WINNAR!!!

:bounce:

[kliljedahl]

38. From "Tank"

I cheated though, I googled the quote.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. nothing

in the newspaper (NY Times), but it comes online around 2 am. Haven't seen any mention of it here before your post.

[Jawja]

3. No, but they just pushed him to

make a long statement just in time for the Sunday talk shows.

[blurp]

4. Posse Comitatus prevents the use of the US military to enforce laws

In fact, the commanding 3 star general in the evacuation answers to the governor and not the president.

Read about the Posse Comitatus Act. It basically says US military can't be used domestically (usually a good thing).

[kath]

7. I think they can be used to HELP people (which they are NOT doing) such as

giving out food/water, search and rescue, etc. What the U.S. military is NOT supposed to be used for is *police* activity.

Posse comitatus is a Real Good Idea. Any suspension of it should make us really scared. :scared: :scared:

[blurp]

9. No. They can't help. It's not legal.

Posse comitatus goes further. It basically says the military can't be used for anything but that authorized by the constitution or specifically by congress.

That's why the national guard is used for these things, because they answer to the governors. In a sense they are the state "army" so posse comitatus doesn't apply to them.

[woodsprite]

8. Is this just for the hurricane area, or all states?

Sounds like were screwed big time here.

[MadeinOhio]

11. If this is true his coup is going to backfire. Good way to burn the rest!

What a way to burn the rest of his entire political image!!! :evilgrin:

Pound that point home, if the fucker sends troops into the cities he's going to fall fast and hard because there's not even enough for crowds, and the military is the worst trained anyone's seen.

:mad:

[peacetalksforall]

12. This is really important. Flying under the radar? Nationwide? For those

of you watching Sunday morning stuff - can you figure out if the press is hiding this? If they mention it, are they explaining it clearly enough? Was there a time limit for this exemption?

This is a very important development?

Besides admitting that they don't have enough Natl Guard personnel, this could be the start of very fancy death by state of the art guns and toys.

[unrepuke]

14. Bush hasn't got his civil war, yet, in Iraq - looks like he wants

one here.

:scared:

[ThomWV]

15. It May Astound You To Learn - Bush Has No Authority

To suspend any law what so ever at any time for any reason.

He is the head of the Executive branch, that is the branch which is charged with executing the laws that are properly passed by the Congress and enacted by the President's signature. The Court, and there is only one court mandated by the Constitution, has the ability to nullify any law or any part of any law should it prove to be in conflict with the Constitution, The President, on the other hand, doesn't have the ability to either create or redact laws - only to enforce them or to ignore that duty if the people will let him.

[lonestarnot]

16. What about emergency powers?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

22. I would think Congress would still have to grant him emergency powers.

[earth mom]

17. Can you elaborate more on what this all means? TIA! nt

[leeroysphitz]

27. It would astound me

since it isn't true.

[auracat]

18. has anyone confirmed this story? n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. Who has the authority to suspend such a law?

[PsychoDad]

21. As I understand it...

Only congress.

[CabalPowered]

23. MACDIS would probably suffice in this case

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html2/d302512x.htm

One of the first things that Bush(Cheney) did in 2001 was redirect money in the DoD to review (I think they used a differnt verb) posse comitatus. I used to have a .gov link for this request but I can't find it right now. Then in 2002, the WH publicly stated it wanted to reexamine the posse comitatus but Congress didn't play along. They brought it up again last month

Here's part of an editorial from the Plain Dealer, 8/15/2005. I got it out of LexisNexis so no link.. sorry.


The U.S. military is said to have plans for some very unlikely scenarios — among them, for instance, the invasion of London. So there should be little surprise when the Washington Post reports that the Northern Command headquarters, responsible for the continental United States, has drawn up plans for the armed forces to take charge in case of a catastrophic terrorist attack.

Little surprise, but some proper concern, nonetheless. Although the words “martial law” were not used in the account, that’s almost certainly what would result. Should a president assert his or her commander-in-chief authority under Article 2 of the Constitution to set aside the post-Civil War Posse Comitatus Act and bring in troops to preserve the order, Americans would live, in whatever numbers and for whatever time frame, under rules foreign to their unregimented ways.

Among those rules would be restrictions on travel and the distribution of food, water and fuel, and — depending on the extent of the attack — quite possibly some attempts to control communications: television, radio, newspapers and even the Internet.

[ThomWV]

40. No One Does

However, as has happened many times in the past and certainly goes ont today as well, all laws may not be enforced.

It is a far different thing to suspend a law than it is to simply not enforce one.

[Karmakaze]

25. Posse Comitatus Act:

Here are some links that can provide some more information on the Act:

http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm

The interesting point is made in the second link:

Federal military personnel may also be used pursuant to the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C., section 5121, in times of natural disaster upon request from a state governor. In such an instance, the Stafford Act permits the president to declare a major disaster and send in military forces on an emergency basis for up to ten days to preserve life and property. While the Stafford Act authority is still subject to the criteria of active versus passive, it represents a significant exception to the Posse Comitatus Act’s underlying principle that the military is not a domestic police force auxiliary.

The only reason I can see for Bush to "suspend" Posse Comitatus is the duration that military forces are allowed to be employed - 10 days.

Something is brewing folks...

[lonestarnot]

28. I am afraid you are right! Something could be brewing! And it's not just

my coffee!:donut:

[DS1]

32. mmmm

coffee

GOOD IDEA

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. Can someone please post a link when available? n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

29. Not Getting Covered Kicker! Please Keep Kicked. I'm Taking Off!

[Oilwellian]

30. What's wrong with this picture?

We have the National Guard in Iraq and Northcom in an american city.

[Spazito]

33. Combat troops are entering NO now, according to another thread

It looks like bush couldn't get the Governor to voluntarily take the hit for this mess, he has now taken it anyway! This is so totally unbelievable to think it is going on in the United States.

[G_j]

42. 7,000 active duty troops

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/KKEE-6FVQZA?OpenDocument

Active duty troops due to arrive in New Orleans late Saturday: general

WASHINGTON - The first of the additional 7,000 active duty troops that President George W. Bush ordered to help hurricane relief operations will begin arriving in New Orleans Saturday, a general said.

"I think you can expect to see the first plane land in New Orleans before sundown today," said Major General Joseph Inge, deputy commander of the US Northern Command. "I would estimate that the main part of the force will close within 72 hours."

Inge said the active duty troops will be used to reinforce National Guard troops that have been sent in to secure the city but will not be used for law enforcement operations.

<snip>
"Their purpose is to contribute to the effort to bring about a more stable environment," Inge said.

<snip>
Inge said there had been no discussion about waiving Posse Comitatus.

[earth mom]

34. Can someone PLEASE explain this in language we commoners can understand?

TIA!

[CabalPowered]

35. Kick for links!

Someone must've been TiVoing this morning..

[goclark]

36. He could be getting ready to use this tactic

when we try to march on his sorry ass.

Believe me, he knows his shit stinks and he is preparing to bring this country to Civil War and leave it to the Red States and FOR RED STATE white people only.

[Gabi Hayes]

37. somebody else needs to recommend this.....this is what they WANT!

total control.....military, if necessary

think it's tinfoil time?

think they're not capable of ANYthing?

how many elections have they stolen?

how many wars/incursions/wetops have they started?

how many other 'events' have been staged to consolidate their power?

[MADem]

39. I heard this yesterday on MSNBC

No one believed me when I posted it...

[mopinko]

41. the other shoe drops

now we know why the guard was sent to iraq. to create a vacuum.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. There is NOTHING on this so far on Google News or Yahoo News

The stories that even mention posse comitatus are all from yesterday and all say that the active military's role will be limited specifically to **conform** to the law. The National Guard, however, is more open. The state's own Gurad is able to operate with police powers if the state's governor grants them that authority.

[Nictuku]

44. The Governor Refused

I saw somewhere that the Governor of Louisiana had refused the President's bid to 'take total control' of the area with military, (I keep hoping to find more info on that with some links somewhere), but it might explain the delay.

There is more to this story, we need to be vigilant.

[Nictuku]

45. Rumsfeld Denies

I also just saw a press conference, where a reporter asked Rumsfeld about the 'Troops begin Combat Operations', he backpedaled and said in no uncertain terms that the American Military is not on a combat mission, that they are in New Orleans only to assist with the rescue and cleanup.

But here, on the Army Times website:
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.php
**********************************************************
September 02, 2005

Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans

By Joseph R. Chenelly
Times staff writer

NEW ORLEANS — Combat operations are underway on the streets “to take this city back” in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

“This place is going to look like Little Somalia,” Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard’s Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome. “We’re going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control.”

***********************************************

So, it is the National Guard, but what is the Joint Task Force? Does it include Active Duty military?

This is just amazing to me. And Haliburton .. are they going to be building concentration camps to keep the displaced american citizens in?

[nonny]

50. Somewhere is Here

Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting
White House Shifts Blame to State and Local Officials

By Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 4, 2005; Page A01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

snip--

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.
The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.
Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.
Bush, who has been criticized, even by supporters, for the delayed response to the disaster, used his weekly radio address to put responsibility for the failure on lower levels of government. The magnitude of the crisis "has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities," he said. "The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable."

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

46. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

This article is about a United States statute prohibiting the use of the armed forces for law enforcement. For the sheriff's powers of law enforcement at common law, see posse comitatus. For the terrorist organization, see The Posse Comitatus.
The Posse Comitatus Act is a federal law of the United States (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, and was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states. It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The original act only referred to the Army, but the Air Force was added in 1956 and the Navy and Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is mentioned whenever it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances.

There are a number of exceptions to the act. These include:

National Guard units while under the authority of the governor of a state;
Troops when used pursuant to the Federal authority to quell domestic violence as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots;
The President of the United States can waive this law in an emergency;
In December 1981 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies—including the Coast Guard—especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews.
Under 18 USC 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threat involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a Nuclear or Radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect US military preparedness.
The relevant legislation is as follows:

Sec. 1385. - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

[dxstone]

47. JESUS CHRIST ON CRACK! WHAT NEXT???

K&N!

[CabalPowered]

48. kick again. no links yet?

[Mnemosyne]

49. kick n/t

[Land Shark]

51. kick; clarifications?

[Xenotime]

52. That's so they can shoot more people walking on bridges...

Gotta keep those bridges clear! <sigh>

[stevietheman]

53. I have yet to see *any* evidence that Posse Comitatus has...

been suspended. All the news accounts I've seen is that military is engaging in relief activities, not policing, but some things they do might come razor-close to policing, such as crowd control.

[amandabeech]

54. Today I saw an article discussion Nagin's desire to send the

police officers on a paid vacation to Vegas. I also seem to recall reading that Nagin said that all police, firefighters, EMS and other first responders would be evacuated from NO to Baton Rouge on Tuesday for R&R and counseling. I would then expect the military to move in on Tuesday as the NO folks moved out, that is if there is any truth to either my memory or the story. That would mean 10 days of shoot-em ups.

[amandabeech]

55. Knight-Ridder is reporting that all cops and ems will leave today.

Here's the story from the Seattle Times, a Knight-Ridder paper:



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002472840_katrina05.html

Bush is coming to NO tomorrow at the head of the U.S. Army!