why nancy pelosi's speeches are so ineffectual...BOTOX

[ElsewheresDaughter]

i sure hope some of her advisors read DU ...she has no expression when she speaks....her eyebrows, forehead and cheeks are frozen like a death mask...it is such a shame because her words are good and truthful...always right on target...but they have no power because of botox....just my $0.02

what say you?

[dennis4868]

1. She is a terrible leader....

thats what bothers me even more about her....we need new blood and leadership in the Democratic Party!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. she is a good leader raises the most money for her party & speaks well..

just needs to stop botoxing...i tell you that if she lays off the injections for 5/6 months you will she a very GOOD speaker

[Rose Siding]

5. Yes

She gets good concensus in the Dem caucus but her public face is frozen. I agree, it makes her speaking ineffective although she does better in the small, slightly more cerebral press conferences.

[Flying_Pig]

3. I disagree (not about how she looks, but that her words are always

"on target". She has blindly, and without reservation, supported Sharon and Likud run Israel to the max. She counts AIPAC and the JDL as good friends, and has voted many times for PNAC (who are good "friends" of AIPAC and JDL) friendly proposals and bills.

She attacked Howard Dean for saying he preferred an "even-handed" approach to Middle East issues, and then led a drive to dis-credit him because of this. She supports the two-faced, pink-tutu wearing former House leader, Richard Gephardt. I could go on.... She may be "on target" sometimes, but she is not always on target.

[shance]

10. I agree Piggie. Pelosi is a disappointment - appears shes sold out

She just sent me a 'telegram'. Let me see....she wants my opinion on something?

Bottom line: her stance with Sharron and AIPAC is disturbing to me, very questionable and disrupts and attempt for objectivity.

[Former Republican]

Yes and no.

Her stance on Israel is disturbing, but I don't know where you get off calling Dick Gephardt two-faced and pink-tutu wearing. Gephardt is economically the most liberal and the boldest of all the major candidates.

[hlthe2b]

4. You might have a point, there... why not call her

offices and talk to one of her aids and make that suggestion-- seriously! I'll bet if they convey that constitutents are noticing, it might well have an impact.

Given that (currently) more women than men are using botox, I fear that this actually may bcome an issue. We are programmed as humans to look for certain visual cues to indicate sincerity, firmness of convictions and other emotions. Taking away those cues can only cause a loss in effectiveness, IMO.

[pippin]

6. not sure I agree about your statement . . .

"because her words are good and truthful...always right on target."

For me she comes across as yammering away without coming to the point. Feinstein and Boxer have far more presence and impact. Pelosi is really disappointing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

7. i agree that there are far better speakers.re: boxer and rangel but, my

point is really the botox thing...i need to read your face in order to see your sincerity.

[Fridays Child]

20. I think you may be right. Look at this, for example.

It's as if her eyes are flopped wide open and expressionless. If she's had botox injections around her eyes, it would explain the apparent paralysis of those muscles.

[amazona]

23. she looks fantastic for her age -- she is 63, people!!!

If you spend a lot of time with seniors, as I do, you would understand just how fantastic this grandmother of 5 looks for her age. Do you folks honestly not know what a pre-technological 63 year old looks like? She would not have wide eyes, smooth skin, or dark hair. She would be gray, lined, "squinty-eyed" -- and people would perceive her differently. Like it or not.

She can't look 21 again. We don't have that technology. But, damn, in this photo at least, she looks 20 years younger. I wouldn't mind knowing the name of her cosmetic surgeon or dermatologist, frankly.


this isn't your father's grandmother

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. i didn't say she didn't look good for her age..that is not the issue

[Iris]

27. dark hair, fine, but no wrinkles?

nope. Looks totally unnatural. How are we supposed to respect the authority of older women if they go around looking expressionless? I 'm 36 and I have tons of lines on my forehead, but people still think I'm in my early-mid 20s. (I even get carded sometimes.)

Couldn't she just wear bangs over her forhead - then at least part of her face would move.

[montanacowboy]

8. She is a loser

She is a mouthpiece for the DLC - everytime I see her on TV, I simply cringe - she needs to go as leader, so ineffective, so blah blah blah - her and Daschle make a fine pair - keep losing elections for the Dems

[davidinalameda]

12. LOL

Pelosi is a mouthpiece for the DLC?

whatever

Pelosi has consistantly been one of the most progressive/leftie/liberal voices we have in the House.

I'm moving back to San Francisco early next year and there is no one else I would rather have represent me in Congress

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. i like her too...and think she does a fine job, but some here have mis-

understood me....sorry if anyone was offended...it was not my intent

[E Pluribus Unum]

19. She is just plain boring.

[ShaneGR]

9. Dennis Kucinich looks like a little boy

Does that make him a bad leader? I don't really think that about Kucinich, but I thought I'd throw out a right-wing talking point for you.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

34. Actually, he's a good example for this argument

To me, he looks like the type of person who is unusual looking and not conventionally handsome, yet something about his personality makes up for it and makes him have an appealing look.

I agree with those who think plastic surgery makes people look worse, it takes away their character and individuality. People should be confident in themselves growing older and appreciate their individualiy. The things we see in the mirror as terrible flaws are usually what other people like about us.

For example, Bobbie Brown, one of the best make-up artists in the country, always says women compain to her about the feature that she thinks makes them look most beautiful and unique - like their hooded eyelids or distinctive noses etc.

We all know people with good personalities that we think are not conventionally good-looking, but their character makes them attractive.

[amazona]

11. sigh

You are telling a woman to just give up and look old, when we have the technology to remove those lines and wrinkles.

While a vocal minority may complain of frozen face, in the real world, on the ground, the people you meet in public and private life will respond to you better if you look younger -- if, in other words, your face is smoother. That is just the way of the wicked world. I want this option for myself, so how can I deny it for Pelosi?

I vote "yes" on Botox. The alternatives are generally far more invasive and cause distracting blotches. The Resident's face peels for "pre-cancerous conditions" haven't done much for his wrinkles, they've just made his skin more uneven -- he needs to sit down for some damn Botox.

So say I.

[maggrwaggr]

13. Give up and look old?? NO! Embrace your age, wisdom, experience

Quit trying to look like a 35 year old when you're not.

It's stupid, it doesn't work, and makes you look worse rather than better.

American women REALLY need to figure this out. Nothing uglier than a 40 year old trying to look like a 20 year old.

Yet there are plenty of sexy 40 year olds. Just roll with it, don't fight it, and make it work for you.

[amazona]

24. she ain't 43, she's 63 -- she just LOOKS 43...

...sort of proves my point, doesn't it?


nancy looks great and this just doesn't happen by accident after age 35

[Skittles]

29. SHE DOESN'T LOOK 43

SHE LOOKS 63 WITH A LOT OF PLASTIC SURGERY.

[bearfartinthewoods]

38. why are you linking to a pic of a goose? n/t

[HootieMcBoob]

15. Oh my god!!

How about growing old gracefully?

I was talking with some friends about this recently. Do you know how much is communicated through subtle facial movement? When the muscles are frozen, people don't know what to think about what the person is saying. You can't pick up the subtle, almost unconscious signals that are sent.

Infants pick up on this really well. Babies scream and cry when botoxed out people talk to them. It's frightening to them.

This whole trying to look young thing is a weird product of corporate marketing. I hate it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. HootieMcBoob i have read some of these studies and agree with

their findings...thank you for making my point

[amazona]

22. i am an older woman so i have to live in the real world

Grow old gracefully? No effin' way! Nature has programmed us to respond positively to youthful, smooth faces which communicate a message of health and fertility. Women who let themselves go are not perceived as powerful; they are perceived as depressed and powerless.

You have a question of, should Pelosi (or any other woman) reclaim her wrinkles in order to appeal to a minority that prefers wrinkles or to appeal to the majority (the HUGE number of people who actually prefer smoother faces to wrinkled "expressive" ones).

I would assume that it makes more sense to appeal to the widest number of people. Looking younger and fresher is better than looking tired and wrinkled. We can't delay it forever but for heaven's sake, we shouldn't just passively allow "nature to take its course!"

Living beyond peri-menopause is an unnatural act. Let's embrace the improvements that technology has given us. Most people want to look young and feel young. No one is jumping all over the MALE candidates who get Botox'd and face peeled. Even the Resident mostly gets a pass on his face peels, although when he has a fresh one we get a chuckle at looking at the blotchy aftermath. Somehow, when a man gets a face peel, it is fighting cancer; when a woman gets a face peel or other treatment, she is fake?

I can't agree. Yes to Botox. Yes to all of it. If it works even halfway, it is better than nothing at all.

Growing old gracefully is not appropriate for someone who doesn't feel old and doesn't live old. There will be time enough to grow old gracefully when I am actually old. To let myself go is, in a sense, lying about who I am.



i've had a tragic face peel myself on occasion so i could almost sympathize with the whistle ass, well, not really

[maggrwaggr]

26. botox makes you look worse, not better.

listen to the men of the world. They'll all agree.

Why do you insist on doing something that makes you look worse rather than better, when you admit you want to look better?

Quit reading COSMO

[Skittles]

30. I feel sorry for you

I really do

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. the "real world"?...botox is the FAKE WORLD!!!

[shanti]

21. i earned every last one of my wrinkles

by god, and i'm not letting them go! i vote for the natural look!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. "The Look"

Every mother knows the importance of 'the look'.

THE LOOK

You know, the one that causes kids to wither at 30 paces.

Just one look from mummy and they stop whatever naughty thing they are doing.

Instantly.

My children can almost feel me looking at them, even from a distance.

One look at my face, and they know what I want them to do.

A slight movement of my eyes, and they know whether to put something down or move away from something.

Or, for that matter, to simply stop talking.

Would I give all this up to look younger?

It is a thought.

Botox injections help smoothen out wrinkles temporarily.

But because they act on the facial nerves, your face loses some of its expressiveness.

As I study my wrinkles in the mirror, Botox seems a viable alternative.

WHEN I WAS 18...

There are not many wrinkles, except when I frown or smile.

But the wrinkles are there all the same.

And they will increase in number and depth with time.

Like many women, I do care about how I look.

And I did love the smooth skin of my youth.

Botox could be a solution. Quick, simple, temporary, and almost painless.

But at what price?

And there certainly is a price.

I value every muscle twitch that delivers subtle messages - surprise, dismay, disbelief.

A slight raise of the eyebrow, the merest twitch of the lip can say so much.

And, realistically, I can never be an 18-year-old beauty now.

In fact, I wasn't an 18-year-old beauty when I was 18!

But I think my face has character.

And that has increased with age.

And while I wish wrinkles were not a part of that, I know that expressiveness definitely is.

If I can't have one without the other, then I guess I'd rather stick with wrinkles along with expressiveness.

That way, I can express a million different things.

Rather than look young. Perhaps pretty. But blank.

Let's be honest, after all.

At my age, life is no longer a blank slate.

So my face shouldn't be either.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. excuse me...SuffragetteSal...i didn't personally attack you nor nancy

and the moderators have been alerted...."everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten"...manners and how to play well with others and how to respect their rights to their own opinion without calling them names :7...were you to smart and just skipped ahead to first grade?

[Skittles]

28. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

she has a PERMANENT LOOK OF SURPRISE going and it is EXTREMELY DISTRACTING. Nancy, ENOUGH plastic surgery already. You're starting to look VERY VERY SCARY.

[Blue_Roses]

33. I thought the same thing while I was watching her

speak at the DNC meeting yesterday. She has no passion in her voice.

She actually comes across as someone who has stage fright when she speaks. Maybe that's it.

[LittleApple81]

35. No. It is the frozen look that does it. n/t

[salin]

36. What say I? I thought she looked great when I met her a year ago

And I think this thread is silly.

Somehow I don't think we have many of these conversations about male politicians, and it makes me a tad queasy.

I do not always agree with her, but I think she is doing well as majority leader. The issues above about her stance on ME issues, is shared by many on the hill. Many who would replace her would be the same or perhaps worse.

I never thought I would see a woman with the top leadership position in the House. I think she is doing at least as well as the past leader. May the cracks in the extreme GOP continue to grow and may the backlash hit congress. May she become our first female Speaker.

May folks in the future talk about her effectiveness (good or bad) and positions (good or bad), and not the presence of wrinkles nor presumption of plastic surgery.

[grasswire]

37. I always have been distracted....

....when watching her speak by something strange in her expressions. Now I know what it is. I thought maybe she had some kind of paralysis. But you must be right.

[DemNoir]

39. Botox or not

When I listen to Ms Pelosi I get the impression that she is just not all that bright. She isnt GW dumb, but I think more than half of house Dems could do better.

She really came to prominance due to her fund raising prowess, which I think has more to do with the fact that her district has more wealthy progressives than just about anywhere in the country.