Calling katrina survivors "refugees".

[bee]

Does it bother anyone else? Or is it just me.. :shrug:

[bpilgrim]

1. i prefer evacuees or SURVIVORS n/t

peace

[Igel]

9. Because for many of us, evacuate is a transitive verb,

and surviving bad traffic is not sufficient grounds for a label.

Nearly 500k survivors from NOLA? That's ridiculous.

[oldtime dfl_er]

2. Jesse Jackson said that earlier today

Rita Cosby was interviewing him and I beleive she called them evacuees, but he said "I want people to stop calling these people refugees, they are CITIZENS." Loved it.

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/801334

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Yes that is disgusting

but they are mainly poor brown skinned people. So who cares?

:sarcasm:

[smoogatz]

4. It's accurate enough.

A lot of the folks who've been evacuated are going to be living in temporary housing for months, if not years, and relying on the government and/or th eRed Cross for pretty much everything. If that doesn't make you a refugee, I don't know the definition of the word.

[bee]

5. not convinced.

ref·u·gee n.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.


edited to add... if your definition is correct, then the US is absolutely brimming with refugees. For example every KID whos unlucky enough to be "in the system"

[Igel]

13. The important part of the definition is 'flee.'

The second most important part is 'seek refuge' from something distinctly life threatening. Rather different from asylum and migration; the first implies an official status, the second permanence and a broader range of possible motivations.

There are over 500k people from NOLA and adjacent areas who have fled, and sought refuge. They're not survivors: apart from traffic and travel, and maybe dirty bathrooms and bad food en route, the majority were exposed to no hazards. Some were evacuated; some merely left. Those that left on their own aren't really evacuees. So evacuee doesn't cover the entire group of "those that have fled for safety."

On the other hand, those that are still in NOLA are survivors, but not refugees. Nor evacuees. So the term 'survivor' doesn't suffice, because some survivors haven't fled.

'Citizen' is also too broad a term, and includes me, in Houston for the last month. And "American refugee" has entirely the wrong focus: why stipulate 'American' without a reason? If they were in Mexico, stipulating nationality would be important; within the US borders, it's merely redundant. Sort of like saying they're "American human citizen persons." And, in any event, I suspect that some of those that fled were not American citizens.

We may have become accustomed to only using a word to refer to non-Americans because we've had a shortfall in our lifetimes of refugees, but the word has a broader meaning, outside of international legalese.

The official term of art is 'internally displaced person', or IDP for short, which I consider to be completely depersonalizing. But that's because they defined the term 'refugee' to entail 'international refugee', in an odd warping of English. But 'refugee', even for international law, doesn't entail any particular range of skin tones.

For now, for me, they're refugees: 'evacuee' fails to include many; 'survivor' is ill-placed in most cases and covers some who have not fled; 'citizen' is overstating the facts, as is 'American'.

Unless you prefer IDP.

You may wish to regard this as part of the wonderful dialectal diversity that English has prided itself on over the years. You may go with Chomsky, and other linguists, who believe that lexis, as grammar, is that which is held in common by an idealized community of speakers, and, per Saussure and others, results from a constant process of negotiation among speakers of a given language.

Or you may prefer how France and Spain do it, where the words used by newspapers and the media must be approved by a learned council, so that it doesn't matter what the speakers say, language is not a democracy: the language is that which a small number of scholars, appointed by politicians, say it is.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. VERY well stated! n/t

[anarchy1999]

6. Nice post, welcome to DU.

I ran into this controversy head long on Friday afternoon.

The people leaving New Orleans are not "refugees".

We have to change the language, immediately.

Period.

S

[bee]

7. agreed. the negative connotation doesnt benefit anyone.

I cant imagine being called a refugee by people in my own country.
thanks for the welcome! :hi:

[Igel]

8. You're right, they're IDPs.

Now that we've reduced them from people seeking refuge to an bureaucratic abbreviation, we're done here.

Yes. We must immediately remake the language. Otherwise how would we ever actually kaneet co yazitsi zekayu.

[Carolab]

10. This debate has raged intermittently here on DU.

I, personally, have started threads on it. I cannot imagine anyone defending the use of this term. It has been brought up on MSNBC at least three times now of which I am aware--once by Al Sharpton talking to Tucker and once by Ray Nagin tonight on Meet the Press. I understand Cummings also complained about it.

[bee]

11. I havent seen it on tv yet either

mostly here in posts. And I guess it just strikes me as odd... were Hurricane Andrew survivors "refugees"? Of course not. Wasnt appropriate then... so why is it appropriate now?

[Fescue4u]

12. Well they are seeking Refuge

So the term would fit.

I dont think anyone means harming by this term really.

The more accurate phrase is "homeless victims of hurricane Katrina". But that doesnt roll off the tounge very well, nor does it lend impact to what these folks have gone through.

I understand your point though, although I suspect that a slightly non-pc label is only a concern for folks posting about it from the comfort of their dry intact houses. I doubt that the victims could care less.

[bee]

14. Im sure no one means any harm, true

and by literal, as opposed to the socially accepted definition it perhaps can fit, yes. But why all the sudden do we embrace a word not normally (ever?) used in reference to Amerians...

[Igel]

15. Why do people regard 'refugee' as non-pc, as

somehow derogatory?

What's their basis for the definition they've abduced?

[goclark]

17. They are United States Citizens

I would feel horrible to be called a refugee in my own country.

They pay taxes to the FEDERAL government so it doesn't matter where they live,they are citizens.

Or citizens from New Orleans or Alabama etc.

[Kali]

18. Personally, if I had gone through what some of these poor

Humans have gone through, I would be looking for some kind of refuge and could give a shit what you called me.

Looking, hoping for refuge = refugee. What the hell is wrong with that word?