This post on a different forum bothered me

[FVZA_Colonel]

I know I've done this somewhat frequently of late, but this one post really got to me a bit (here is the thread it was in: http://boards.1up.com/zd/board/message?board.id=egmofftop&message.id=491697&page=29)

Colonel, you might as well drop the blame game with the funding of the levee, because even if Bush had given them all the money in the world to get a new levee and floodgate system, it would have been at least a 10 year project for the type of protection they would have needed. You act like super-structures are raised in a couple months when they take years to complete. Even if Bush had commissioned the building of the greatest sea-wall and drainage system on earth at the beginning of his presidency, it would still be in the planning phases right now.

He did warn them though, and they didn't listen. I know people don't like to hear the man out, but this time, it hurt them. That's the truth and the damage caused by the storm wasn't his fault either. Be objective for once.

Everybody seemed unprepared for it, and I don't see why that's so hard to understand. Hatred really does blind people I guess.

Is there a way I can respond to that? I don't want to seem like I'm askign you do my thinking for me, but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[snot]

1. I agree--but that doesn't explain or excuse why

as of Thur. nite * had still not authorized the N.G. to go to N.O.

See, e.g.:

Bush Admin Sought Control Over Nat’l Guard, Normally Under Control of Governor:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1750979
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html
WP, A01: White House Shifts Blame
Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration had sought control over National Guard units, normally under control of the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request, noting that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. State authorities suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who is an adviser and does not have the authority to speak publicly.

Links to posts to the effect that numerous states had offered their N.G. before Katrina hit and Blanco had accepted, but that no one could move until the feds had provided the required paperwork or order, which in at least some cases did not materialize until Thursday; see, e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1749337
See also http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2057771 ; http://news..yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard> ; http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4610280 ; http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2058654 ; http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4605183&mesg_id=4605183

Pls also see MULTIPLE threads on DU re- other kinds of help of all kinds PREVENTED from reaching N.O. AND threads contrasting disaster relief this time with that after previous catastrophes.

[question everything]

2. Similar point was raised on"60 minutes"

stil, the fact is that FEMA budget was slashed; that last year in Florida, FEMA was there immediately.

The reality is that even though it was the mayor of NO that issued the evacuation notice, that the city may have had limited resources in getting everyone out.

Mostly, however, it is the fact that it took FEMA and the guards four days to get there and two more days to completely evacuate the Superdome.

[bluethruandthru]

3. What Bush can be blamed for.

These idiots get so worked up that people dare to blame poor georgie for anything. Georgie couldn't have predicted the hurricane; even if he did fund the levees the project wouldn't have been done; it's not georgies fault that people didn't leave when they were told to, etc, etc., etc.. Well there are a couple of really key screw ups that can be laid right on georgies doorstep...he was the dumbass who appointed Chertoff and Brown. These two are completely unqualified for the jobs they're in..and boy does it show.

[johnaries]

4. How about this for a response?

What has any of that got to do with Bush strumming guitar and eating cake with John McCain while the Northern Command sat off the coast of LA waiting for orders from him?

[shraby]

5. The plans for the levees have already been

formulated, just not put into action because of the lack of money. The plans are just sitting on the shelf gathering dust.

[Igel]

8. Most of the 1996 projected plans were executed.

I'm unclear on where the 15-20% of the unexecuted plans were. There are many hundreds of miles of levees and dams that could have been worked on, and my guess is that much of it needed no work.

The planned study to commence last year and conclude in 2008 commenced last year, and the proposed budget all but stalls it for f/y 2006.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FVZA_Colonel]

10. The Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency

Link here: http://www.fvza.org/

[ThoughtCriminal]

7. 10 year Estimate

Is how long it would have taken to deal with a direct hit from a Category 5. But fortunately, that is not what happened. Katrina weakened to Category 4 and passed farther east than feared. The conditions in New Orleans were below Category 3.

Unfortunately, there were apparently defects.

I think when they go back and look at this, they are going to find that modest improvements to vulnerable sections would have substantially reduces the flooding.

(Don't you just love the ones that start "A post from another forum bothers me")

[FVZA_Colonel]

13. I guess a better title would have been

"Same argument, same people, what am I doing wrong?"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. He warned them and they didn't listen?

For the record, this is now the third time you have posted this thread on DU and asked us to rebut it.

What have YOU learned from the past week about who got out and who stayed behind? It's only been posted at least 500 times?

What do YOU think should be said in response to this post?

What do YOU think about the fact that this person claims Bush warned them and they didn't listen?

[FVZA_Colonel]

12. I have gotten into this argument repeatedly

But every time I try and offer evidence of federal failures, they keep coming in and attacking me. I guess my fear is just that I am doing a poor job at constructing my arguments.

1. I have learned that the people who got out had the economic oppportunities to do so, and that those who remained behind were often among the poorest in the city.

2. I think it should be said that the funds that were cut were also for levee maitenance, and that Bush performed... quite poorly (the civil term) in the five days before the first National Guardsman arrived in the city.

3. It should be said that actions speak louder than words, wisdom that George Bush obviously did not follow.

[craigolemiss]

11. Actually it WAS a 10 year project

it would have been at least a 10 year project for the type of protection they would have needed


1965-1975---and STILL incomplete

[bpilgrim]

14. On BBC: Northern Command was in position, waiting for Presidential orders

http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2010

download link...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/katrina/BBC_Katrina.mpg

so he not only neglected vital funding he let people die after the event through inaction.

here is just one horror story caused by their inaction...

One of the police officer that committed suicide had returned home to find his entire family dead. This was just reported on WWL Radio out of Baton Rouge.

Source...

psst... pass the word :bounce:

peace

[FVZA_Colonel]

15. An Appology

I deeply, deeply appreciate the information you have given me, but I need to say this as well. I know I have done this three times very recently, and I do feel that I am trying to shift the burden onto you instead of coming up with effective arguments myself. I suppose I am frustrated with arguing with the same people over and over again, but that doesn't mean I should get others to do my work for me. For that, I am sorry.

[Catherine Vincent]

16. What a sweety. Dont' be sorry.

Anything for a DUer in need. :hi:

[walldude]

17. Sometimes it's easier

just to come here for info. That is the purpose of this place, to share information ;)

Might want to remind your friend that they took 250 million dollars, earmarked for the levee reconstruction and put it into the Iraqi reconstruction fund. The same fund which seems to have "misplaced" 8 billion dollars.

[bring_em_home_bush]

18. Why even bother to respond to such tripe? That person hasn't got 2

functioning brain cells. What does he mean, "He did warn them though, and they didn't listen?" Does he think Bush told everyone to leave and they said No? Has he considered those without cars, in wheelchairs, in hospital beds?

Sounds like a Bushbot to me, why waste your time?