Both Brown and Chertoff aka "dead man walking" warned about levees

[Botany]

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054595

And they were warned prior to Katrina hitting land.

I wonder how they will spin that?

Criminal Negligent Homicide @ the least.

[Walt Starr]

1. Especially since it is in the NHC records verbatim

They are doomed. Hopefully Bush won't fire them because the longer they hold on, the worse it will be for Bush.

[yardwork]

2. They just lie and lie and lie

[Virginian]

9. Agree, they won't try to spin the truth, they will just lie.

Bush* won't fire anyone. That would be admitting he made a mistake. They will attack any and all dem elected officials in the affected areas and try to pass off the blame to them.

9/11 made Bush*, Katrina will take him down. People will see that he is all hat and no cattle.

Some red state voters will see that Bush* is neglecting red states in need. Some of the wiser voters will realize that he wouldn't have helped them either.

Another post on this forum told about the props for his levee photo op. It looked like work was getting done while the news crews were there. When Bush* left, the machinery doing the work left with him. I guess he needed it for the next backdrop.

I thought Reagan was an "acting president!" Bush* may have finally found his calling -- acting. He is good at these bit parts. But, you can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

He is scheduled to go back down there soon, I wonder what character he will be playing next time? My guess is that he will wear jeans and roll up his shirt sleeves for the next act.

Vote in the mid-terms in 06!

Edited for spelling:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patsy Stone]

4. Already saw some of the spin

yesterday. Chertoff said they knew the levees could burst from the storm, but since they didn't breach due to the immediate impact of the storm, no one expected the levees would fail after the fact.

Yep.

As they thought NO was spared, I guess they didn't feel there was any more danger, and began to turn their attention to Haley Barbour and Trent Lott's state. Assholes.

See... It all depends on what the definition of the word is is.


ed: to separate my personal disgust from the abject stupidity.

[mwb970]

5. That's pretty convoluted.

Even Fox viewers should be able to see through that excuse. If they want to.

[Patsy Stone]

8. Chertoff yesterday on MTP

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/

SEC'Y CHERTOFF: No, Tim, I have to tell you, that's not what I said. You have to listen to what I said. What I said was not that we didn't anticipate that there's a possibility the levees will break. What I said is in this storm, what happened is the storm passed and passed without the levees breaking on Monday. Tuesday morning, I opened newspapers and saw headlines that said "New Orleans Dodged The Bullet," which surprised people. What surprised them was that the levee broke overnight and the next day and, in fact, collapsed. That was a surprise.

[ClintonTyree]

11. Lying on the run.......

lying while on the run from his previous statements. From "we had no advance warning, no one could have foreseen the levees breaking" to "the last time we knew everything was OK, no one told US there was a problem". This is their continuing attempt to blame local and State officials. :eyes: Running away, always running away from the truth and lying to cover their sorry asses. Our nation has been taken over by liars and thieves.

[HooptieWagon]

6. I emailed the National Desk editor of my local paper...

the St Petersburg Times, with that information yesterday. Pointed out that the WH was spinning that they had no idea the levees would break - in fact they had been warned and briefed of that scenerio just days prior. In the email I included the E&P article, and suggested they contact Dr Mayfield. Guess what? In the lead article in todays paper was Chertoff's claim, followed immediately by Dr Mayfield's rebuttal and excerpts from the FEMA report in 2001 based on an LSU study. Great! Finally the media is beginning to call them on their lies, but we have to continue to keep the pressure on the media to report the truth, not just the spin. All of us can make a difference - email your local papers.

[axman40]

7. 06

The Rallying cry for 06
TOO POOR, TOO BLACK, TOO DAMN BAD!

[MadeinOhio]

14. interesting take on it. n/t

[KLF44]

10. Bush will cut the funding

to the center so they can only have a skeleton crew.

[HooptieWagon]

12. True, and Dr Mayfield

will be swiftboated.

[Patsy Stone]

15. I love Max Mayfield

As a resident of So Florida, we've all grown quite close during the past few years. Godspeed, Max.

[savemefromdumbya]

13. Brown and Chertoff clueless

who knows FEMA may have broken the levees themselves!

[Catrina]

18. Yes, clueless

and Chertoff says he read in the paper that 'NO Dodged the Bullet' and that was that!!! What? He then went on with his life, as did Bush and the rest of the useless idiots of this administration.

So, governing Bush-style means scanning the headlines!! Don't call any experts, don't check to see how much weakening of the levees the storm may have caused!!! How many people need assistance etc. I have first graders who gave me better excuses for not doing their homework than that.


People are still dying there ~ these incompetents need to step down or be fired NOW, before their incompetence kills anyone more people. I just read that whole areas haven't even be reached yet and untold numbers of people are still hiding in their homes, afraid to come out! This was from a witness ~ if true, the magnitude of this tragedy is of gigantic proportions, not that it isn't already.

[BlueStateBlue]

23. Let me get this straight - the Secretary of Homeland Security

gets his information from the newspapers? Right...

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Well at least he reads them, bush doesnt even do that.

Cheezus! Country run by a bunch of Morans! :banghead: And lying ones at that!

[savemefromdumbya]

37. Bush is more interested in one death - of the Chief Justice..reinquist

than 10s of thousands of people destroyed by Katrina!

[Abathar]

16. Of course they knew the levees could break

They have predicted that for 50+ years, and they built the damn things to only withstand a cat3 storm. I was there in '84-'86, everyone worried about the levees if the river went up 15', much less a hurricane hitting. Telling them something they knew forever isn't news, its what they did to prepare for it that's important.

[RevCheesehead]

17. Botany!

You made the front page - 1st item! :toast:

They will spin it like a salad shooter - but nobody with a brain in their head will buy it.

[Botany]

26. I just posted the article ......

..... if I known that I was going to be front and center I would
have dropped some "Gull Bay," on them. :blush:

I want one person to ask them when the lying is going to stop?

My God forgive us but the number of deaths from this lack of
attention is going to be in the tens of thousands ......

...... This just like the PDB that told * that bin Laden wanted to hijack
airlines and fly them into buildings ...... But this time the press has seen
too much.


EDVs :loveya: of the KOEB

please send this article to KO

Now Stephanie :loveya: Miller has to fly out for our "date"

[RevCheesehead]

31. For someone who doesn't believe in evolution,

he sure seems to be following "survival of the richest", isn't he?

:loveya: Botany

[rzemanfl]

19. This is what happens when a man who can get a job anywhere

else he wants gets a chance to tell the truth.

[mzmolly]

20. There it is.

They were warned.

[Igel]

21. Read the article. For what it says.

'"Mayfield said the strength of the storm and the potential disaster it could bring were made clear during both the briefings and in formal advisories, which warned of a storm surge capable of overtopping levees in New Orleans and winds strong enough to blow out windows of high-rise buildings..." '

Chertoff et al. knew the levees could break; but they thought they wouldn't.

Even *Mayfield* in his briefing isn't reported to be saying they would break. He says 'storm surge' and 'overtop'. He was wrong on the facts, as it turns out, now wasn't he? If he predicted the levees' breaking, the reporter, I would hope, would have cited that. This isn't spin, unless we now have equivalence between spin and facts.

Others said they could break; find one of them to cite, so at least the facts match the claims.

Overtopping would have been bad. Real bad.

Having the damn levees breaking is the stuff of nightmares.

[chookie]

36. FEMA has been made faith-based, and ideological

>>Chertoff et al. knew the levees could break; but they thought they wouldn't.<<

Science, real science, predicted everything that happened last week.

"Crying won't help you, praying will do you no good" -- science and effective government WOULD have appropriately dealt with the disaster. Heaven knows, the scientists TRIED to warn people. Talk about being sick about being right....

[longship]

22. This is HUGH11111

They can spin and spin and spin and spin. But they will not be able to weasel their way out of accountability.

[kestrel91316]

24. But the LEVEES didn't break.................."Nobody warned us that the

FLOODWALLS could be overtopped and give way. How could we possibly have known this was going to happen?"

Not even going to BOTHER hitting the sarcasm smilie.

[Imagevision]

25. Both Brown and Chertoff SHOULD BE REPLACED. - UNACCEPTABLE!

[ClayZ]

28. Seattle PI cartoon

[mnhtnbb]

29. Hey, since when did the WH listen to scientists?

[GettysbergII]

30. According to Wikipedia, Chertoff is a dual citizen

of the United States and Israel

Nothing wrong with that for the average citizen but as the head of Homeland Security isn't there a conflict of interest going on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff

[RC]

32. No conflict as far as this administration is concerned

Helps Israel stay on top of things.

[Botany]

34. u r kidding me?

I wonder how the Israeli working inside the pentagon got in?

I have always thought that * was Sharon's house boy.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Actually...

It doesn't say that. It appears the pages was modified today. Probably because the info was wrong. Even the "blame Israel for everything" websites haven't reported this! He is a Jew though and his children did attend private Jewish schools.

[chomskysright]

33. SHAME is the Achilles heel of the Republican Party: outline for its uses:

I’ve come to the conclusion that SHAME is the PsyOps maneuver the Dems should and can use. Yes, you have to wait until ‘after the event’ but ‘after the event’ e.g., Iraq War, NOLA, are examples where SHAME can be utilized and it is the neocon Achilles heel if not that of the entire Republican party.

Think about SHAME for a moment. How does it feel to you to feel ashamed---of something you have done or not done. If you are in the place of shame, you have been thinking about something that has already occurred. It is already in your mind. Otherwise, you would not so obviously feel shame.

I gave out 2 diff pieces of paper: 1: ¾ page outline of what CAFTA is, how it affects us (using a public.citizen.org reference) and what Taylor’s non-vote had done. 2. M’s information re: the war: small piece of paper (I think people were more willing to take just a small piece of paper) and as I presented it, I said: “Sir would you like some information about the war” and if they reached to take it, I spoke loudly for others around them to hear, ‘over 1800 dead American soldiers’ and clearly the shame registered for about 75% of those people.

I’m reminded of the very exasperated questioner re: the McCarthy hearings, asking Joe McCarthy something to this effect: “Have you no SHAME sir?”

When I was in Hendersonville today, I mapped out my interactions with probably 200 people as I walked around with my very tall, homemade sign that stated on one side: “GOP = Death” and the other, “Ask Charles about CAFTA.” I stood across from the Republican Party shelter during the parade.

1. quite a few people do not know what GOP means.
2. quite a few people do not know what CAFTA means. The ones that do are perturbed with Taylor. Concommitantly, the sign which was purported to be there, which I did not see, “CAFTA got your tongue” would have, IMHO, pretty useless if useless is defined as lots of people don’t get it except for Mr. Taylor and the GOP regulars and people who knew about CAFTA and were already convinced that it was a bad thing. In other words, I believe it would have a minimal effect if by effect you want to change people’s votes.

So, as a psychologist who has developed questionnaires, the development of materials for distribution in order to educate people has to pay attention to what people know and it has to attend to what the purpose of the material is: to educate? To shame?; to bellow? .

So, let’s back up: what’s the sample of the population like in Hendersonville, NC? I don’t know the actual number but I do know that Hendersonville is a stronghold for Taylor. He strode down the street today, shaking hands with anyone who wanted to and when I asked him, as I popped to the front of the crowd: “Mr. Taylor: Can you tell us about your CAFTA vote”, he paused just very briefly, and he stated, “I did vote for CAFTA” which we know is either a lie or very close to a lie. In any case, his vote did ot register.

Here would be my suggestions for future such gatherings (that is, the population at large, and not as associated with rallies which are associated with preaching to the choir):

1. target the distribution according to the population: Hendersonville is rural in part, quite Republican. CAFTA means lost jobs to those in textiles and agriculture, as far as I can tell. Any documentation of its effects either now or in the future need to be fully exploited and advertised.

2. More, many more Dems, need to come out. I saw 4 older ladies at the Hendersonville Dem HQ and that was IT people save for one other woman I just ran into walking around and Mary Olson and her partner, Pete.

3. Fully exploit the human emotion of SHAME, which is present except in people who are without a superego and there is no reaching them in any case (but probably only 10% of the American population overall is in this category and probably less if you could really target something they are interested in).

And here is the Shame statement for the day: “HOW MANY SOLIDERS PER GALLON DOES YOUR SUV GET?” and frankly that could really be stated otherwise (and in this, we also shame ourselves which is not a bad thing): “HOW MANY SOLDIERS PER GALLON DOES YOUR CAR GET?”

[PinkyisBlue]

35. Just a Misunderstanding

It was all just a misunderstanding.

When Chertoff and Brown were informed that, in a powerful hurricane "the city's levees may be breached," they thought they heard "the city's Chevies may be beached!"