I am sick and tired of the Nagin bashing.

[DoYouEverWonder]

that is going on around here.

The whole blame game is Rove's way of deflecting the attention from Bush & Co. Oh look over here, Nagin used to be a Republican. So?

I was on line last weekend throughout most of the storm. We were monitoring all the news and radio reports and Nagin and Blanco made statements all day before, during and after the storm.

Here are some facts culled from these reports:

Nagin was told on Sunday that the Superdome was a safe shelter to send people to. Prior to this the Red Cross had not designated any building a safe shelter for a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane, but on Sunday with so many people with no way to leave on their own, HS/FEMA decided that the Superdome would be adequate.

After HS/FEMA decided that the Superdome was taking in evacuees, they did nothing to get them to shelters outside of the evacuation zone while there was still time and sent only a minimal amounts of food in the form of MRI's for about 10,000 people for two days. It is not clear if they even sent any water.


On Monday after the hurricane passed the 17th Street levee started to have problems. Nagin requested Black Hawk helicopters to come and drop the sandbags that he already had on hand before the levee was breached? HS/FEMA told him helicopters would be sent. Hours later they never came and the levee broke.

So all you anti-Nagin folks, please show me the evidence of what he did wrong exactly, because from everything I've seen and heard, Nagin is a real hero. Not a dress up one like W.

[Pam-Moby]

1. Nagin has balls. He stood up to the chimp. He rocks. n/t

[Carni]

64. Yeah and then this AM HE BACKED DOWN

This string was started because I had the audacity to post that Nagin was a repuke previously

Nagin was NOT AT FAULT SO WHY THE FUCK IS HE GIVING BUSH ANY CREDIT?

Bush was asleep or plotting at the helm IT'S BUSH'S FAULT BUT NAGIN COVERED HIS ASS ON CABLE THIS MORNING--WHY?

Talk about a get in line with Rove deal--this is it!

[xultar]

2. I'm sick of Dem bashing in general. I accept him as a Dem

we'll never get anywhere if we don't quit this eating our own routine.

[Justyce]

10. AMEN. I'm so sick of reading all the

bashing of fellow Dems -- including Clinton(s), Kerry, Gore, and this wonderful guy. It makes my blood boil to imagine how much the repubs get off to reading us bash our own when they are die-hard supporters of theirs. :(

[GRLMGC]

12. I totally agree nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Me too. I think he and Blanco don't deserve the smackdown

------------------------------------------------------
Save the Gulf, then save the nation!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[HEAVYHEART]

4. Thank you for posting this n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. They are swift boating him

Nagin was the most responsible and reliable of all the public officials involved. I think he deserves a medal.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Damn right they are swift boating him

but the public record is going to prove that he did everything he was supposed to do and more, much, much more.

Like a good captain on a sinking ship, he stood with his people while Bush ate cake and played guitar.

[Justyce]

27. Exactly -- and some of ours are buying into their swiftboat....

:(

[Imagevision]

80. Bullsh*t, Nagin drew all the attention from the get-go - it helped

to get the Calvary to NO. can't deny that, reporters came and video-taped what they saw and the we responded wiyh total outrage, Nagin a hero in my book -- how do you use buses to evacuate that are under water??? anyone?

[Tyranny_R_US]

6. "Mayor Ray Nagin says water will no longer be handed out to people...

who refuse to leave."

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3808582&nav=EyB0e9os

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - New Orleans is getting tough with people who are still refusing to leave the hurricane-ravaged city.

Mayor Ray Nagin says water will no longer be handed out to people who refuse to leave.

Despite evacuations, rescues and relief efforts, Deputy Police Chief W-J Riley says some people still don't want to leave their homes while others are hanging back to take part in looting and other criminal activity.

State police are using force to get some to move. A SWAT team, armed with rifles, confronted two brothers at their home in the Uptown section of New Orleans, leaving one sobbing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. It isn't safe to stay there. I don't think he wants to hurt the people but

this may be the only way to get them out. It is freaking toxic down there right now. :cry:

------------------------------------------------------
Save the Gulf, then save the nation!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. If they refuse to leave

then they need to be capable enough to go get their own water from distribution sites.

Nobody brought me water after three hurricanes last year. Most of us were able to take care of ourselves and go across town to the distribuation center if we needed stuff. A lot of other people were isolated because a lot of roads were flooded and so they had to depend upon whatever they had put away before the storm. That's how it works after a hurricane. If you don't go to a shelter you are pretty much on your own after the danger has passed.

[Tomee450]

32. He is probably threatening

to stop giving water to encourage the residents to leave. Experts are saying that New Orleans is toxic and unsafe to live in. The NG is saying they can't keep coming back to see if the residents are ok or to give them food. It's unwise for people to stay in their homes under these conditions.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. I don't blame people for staying in their homes at this point

if there is something left to stay in but then they better be able to take care of themselves and have a way to get out to get supplies.

[LSK]

47. how is this relevant?? people can leave now and are being assisted

So whats the problem??????? How does this apply to last weeks fiascos??

[MadeinOhio]

65. It isn't okay to with hold water, supplies or anything.

Regardless of motive Nagin shouldn't do that. I don't even know who might be dead or affected by that decision and I hope he's changed this policy.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Get thee away from me, fill in the blank

Is there a similiar site to show us Bush's timeline and how he failed miserably during this emergency?

Most of what you are quoting from are old plans anyway. All that changed when FEMA became part of the Dept of HS and they issued their National Response Plan last March.

Try again.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. And what exactly did Nagin do wrong?

I don't have time to read through the whole thing.

[SarahMSmythe]

23. fair enough

It is an interesting read when you have time. It gives another perspective. More information is always better than less.

[blondeatlast]

40. Ms. Smythe, you will now have plenty of time to cach up on your reading.

If there are Borders six feet under, anyway.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. So Sarah...

Apparently, the response efforts in Mississippi and Alabama are being described as abysmal as well. Is that Mayor Nagin's fault too?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ohio_liberal]

33. I think most of us know the Republican talking points....

...that are mirrored at that website. Most of it has already been debunked.

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. And those conclusions are?

I've got tons of info. I've read tons of stuff before and especially since the 2000 selection. I am a formidable opponent when it comes to political arguements. Now what are your conclusions? You still haven't given me much to go on here.

[ohio_liberal]

36. She's already tombstoned

:)

[Spazito]

39. LOL, I bet you don't know that "I am not assigning blame" is

the right wing mantra just before they smear someone. Or maybe you do know, hmmmmm.

Edited to add: Damn, just as I was trying to edumacate her, lol.

[Carni]

70. What is your fucking agenda?

NAGIN BACKED BUSH'S ASS UP THIS AM AND BASICALLY BLAMED THE STATE OF LA GOVERNMENT?

I have said REPEATEDLy that regardless of what Nagin did he is NOT responsible BUSH IS--I just find it ODD that he covered bush's ass.

But you have this need to spin this?

I didn't just fall off of a fucking turnip truck-

[bushisanidiot]

14. Did AWOL Bush do anything the night after katrina hit other than give his

buddy jeff gannon his nightly blowjob?

nagin had BOOTS ON THE GROUND all fucking week while AWOL Bush has been pattie-cake with frist, lott, and the repuke gov. of mississippi.. they were all circlejerking eachother for the cameras while NAGIN, BLANCO and HONORE were doing what had to be done!

[SarahMSmythe]

20. interesting

Huh!
Interesting retort you have. It would seem that you are or maybe passionate about what you think, its to bad that you are so inarticulate.

[Heddi]

26. OH such delicious irony

It would seem that you are or maybe passionate about what you think, its to bad that you are so inarticulate.

Uh, honey, the first part of your sentence is completely unreadable.

Also, please note these needed corrections:

it's
too

Thanks

[SarahMSmythe]

30. thanks

Thanks

[Justyce]

31. and "may be" rather than "maybe" in this case

while we're on a roll -- lol ;)

[LSK]

51. someone post the Guitar pics and the cake pics

Bush was playing guitar and eating cake while New Orleans drowned. THATS A FACT.

[bushisanidiot]

53. Sorry, but it doesn't take much effort to defend Nagin when he was

actually DOING something to help all week long..

compare that to 9/11/01 when president SHITFERBRAINS read a book even after the 2nd plane hit the towers.. then he stopped for a FUCKING PHOTO-OP..

AWOL bush has NO CLUE what to do during or after a disaster other than ignore it, then run away as fast as he can..

he needs to stop sucking jeff gannon's cock and do his damn job!

fucking pussy

[Carni]

79. Indeed Blanco and Nagin did so WTF is Nagin DEFENDING BUSH?

He shouldn't be and I am TOTALLY PISSED THAT HE IS-- he knows this shit that he was spewing this morning IS CRAP

[Arkana]

15. Republican or Democrat, I admire Nagin for the chutzpah he's showing.

He teed off on those sonsabitches on the radio, and he used language that shocked those faux-moralistic pricks on the right.

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. Excuse my french but

that was great. I think that happened when the Black Hawks didn't show up. He went ballistic.

[Tomee450]

38. Yes and it was only

when Nagin got publicly angry that things began to move. I have nothing but admiration for his efforts. On every right wing show it's blaming Nagin and Blanco and some here are repeating the exact words uttered by the wingers.

[Hello_Kitty]

19. The Federal State of Emergency was declared Aug. 28

By President Bush. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167240,00.html

Nagin rightfully expected the Federal response to be in place as the Homeland Security/FEMA statutes dictate!

They let him, and all the victims down. Nagin did his best.

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. Even worse

they did it on purpose.

Bush stalled and dragged his feet, knowing that with each hour that passed more people would die.

The response to the hurricane was a total FLOP. A Failure to Lead On Purpose.

[Tatiana]

24. I think it's fair to question.

But I don't think he committed some sort of heinous deriliction of duty. He did his job. He did the best he could with the resources he had.

And yes, he was a Republican. He was VP of Cox communications. Of course he donated to Republican candidates. Cox is a notorious Repug contributor obviously because of the FCC and deregulation. It's like expecting the VP of Walmart to be a Democrat. That ain't gonna happen. I didn't care for him much when he was elected, thinking he had switched to D to get elected mayor, but I have to say New Orleans was rancid with corruption and he did do some good things to clean it up, especially that PD (which responded heroically during this tragedy).

Nagin was mayor of NO and NO only. There was only so much he could do, only so many resources he had to utilize. It's counterproductive and wrong to blame him for not doing things that FEMA and the Feds had the responsibility to do. If you want to question him, I think the line of communication between him and Governor Blanco is fair game. But as for what more he could have done for NO, I think he did the best anyone could do.

[Tomee450]

48. When I was in college

my political science instructor told the class that black mayors sometimes have quite a difficult time with state legislators that are mainly white. We don't have any idea what went on between Blanco and Nagin. My instructor said monies that would be given to a white mayor is often withheld from the African American mayor. AS I said in an earlier post, many blacks in La. were not that happy with Blanco but voted for her because they did not want a Republican governor.

[Tatiana]

59. Well I honestly feel Nagin had a passion in his heart for NO.

He took a serious pay cut to run for office and basically self-financed his own campaign. Being the mayor of NO isn't exactly a glamorous job, or comparable to being the mayor of cities like NYC, Chicago, or LA. He had a plan and no one seems to want to talk about the thousands of lives that were saved by the NOPD and the NOFD. Nagin didn't have control over the NG or the ACOE.

This is about $$$ and resources. His were limited and he had to work with what he had. The fact that they even evacuated those thousands of people to the Superdome and convention center speaks volumes to their dedication to the citizens of NO. The moment they got those people to safety I have no doubt they expected FEMA to step in with the necessary aircraft, buses, and personnel to assist with rescue operations and transporting those at the shelters of last resort out of the city to safety (i.e. to a place arranged by command and control, which was nonexistent until today).

This is a FEDERAL failure, not a local one.

[DoYouEverWonder]

61. Exactly, once FEMA told him the Superdome was a safe shelter

then Nagin had no choice but to send them there. It seemed that it took until about midday Sunday for FEMA to make that decision. In the meantime, Nagin had his hands tied trying to evacuate people because he had no where to send the ones that couldn't leave town.

Once he got the people to the Superdome they became the responsibility of HS/FEMA.

[Tatiana]

71. Well, they had been the responsibility of DHS/FEMA.

Since August 27th according to FEMA's own website or August 28th if you go by Gov. Blanco's memo.

Either way, the place was already declared a disaster area in need of federal assistance. Let's not forget Brownie saying that he had no idea people were at the convention center and Ted Koppel grilling him on that point. FEMA knew those people were there. They abandoned them for five entire days.

The news crews, photographers, and reporters made it into the area, but somehow FEMA couldn't? WTF????

How the hell is that Nagin's fault? Many of those people had the chance to live because of Nagin's quick thinking and the heroism of the NOPD officers and other caring citizens in boats. Many died because FEMA didn't get there.

[tblue37]

67. Oh--that explains why he endorsed Blanco's

Republican opponent for Governor. I couldn't figure that out when I first read about it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

68. What does that have to do with how he or anyone else

handled the response to the storm?

[Tatiana]

73. Nothing.

But Uncle Karl must be laughing his ass off at our gullibility.

[Tomee450]

25. Thank you.

I am tired of the Nagin bashing too. I don't care that he was previously a Republican. From what I've seen he's done his best under terrible trying conditions. I wish people would lay off him.

[Reciprocity]

29. You do know he was a republican ...

right up to the point he decided to run for mayor? Also after all his yelling and screaming on the airways he apologized to Bush for what he said about him. After that I lost all respect for him.

[NNN0LHI]

35. He folded up like an accordion after his shower on AF-1 n/t

[Reciprocity]

37. I see you watched 60 Minutes too.n/t

[NNN0LHI]

41. Before he really had the fire in the belly

I don't know what happened?

Don

[Reciprocity]

44. It's the John McCain syndrome. Scary how they both capitulated.

[DoYouEverWonder]

42. Sometime you do what you've got to do

to get your people the help they need, even if it means eating humble pie. Bush is still the most powerful man in the country and has no problem exacting revenge. Nagin knows this. I don't think he folded and even if he did, who could blame him after everything he's been through. I doubt if any of the rest of us would be making all good decisions at that point either.

[Reciprocity]

45. Oh I can blame him because it made everything he said a lie.

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. What do you think he should have done?

Kick Bush in the balls and walk away? That would have gotten him a lot of help for his people that were literally dying at that very moment.

[Reciprocity]

54. Oh please ...

it was the pictures coming out of NO that made Bush move not the apology.

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. Huh?

n/t

[Reciprocity]

62. No backbone no respect.

Some of you act like it was the apology that started the wheels rolling on getting help for these people. When it was the media showing all the human suffering that did it. Hell I bet if the media wasn't there nothing would be done to help these people.

[DoYouEverWonder]

63. No backbone?

You sit through a Cat 4 Hurricane fighting for your people and then let's talk about backbone.

[Reciprocity]

72. Politically yes, he is spineless.

[Carni]

81. The thing that started the ball rolling was Nagins frank plea

And frank language about getting the feds off their asses to do something--his apology later when the shithead flew in for a photo op is what I have a problem with.

He had the bastard on the coals--WTF would he aplogize and then back bush up as for this all being Blanco's fault? I

I am not knowledgeable about Blanco's policies but all this shit lies at the feet of the feds -- bush played a power game and the people of NOLA paid dearly with their lives.


Those levees should have been addressed MONDAY NIGHT BY FEMA AND THE FEDS.

[NNN0LHI]

55. You said a mouthful

I wouldn't doubt he is suffering from something similar to the PTSD that our soldiers are coming home with. The man went through a lot of shit. He had to see a lot of stuff that no one should ever see. I am not going to judge him for everything he has done so far knowing for sure that I probably couldn't have done as good as he did.

Don

[DoYouEverWonder]

66. So does that mean you're going to

stop bashing him?

[NNN0LHI]

69. You butt head n/t

[Carni]

77. BULLSHIT

Honore and his horseshit about how great FEMA is doing didn't impress me either today (the John Wayne dude that gets everything done)
He covered Chertoff's sorry skank ass as well as that pathetic dunce director of FEMA and the whore ball-less press STFU.

I am not buying this bullshit set up-- this lack of preparedness was bushit's fault not the local and state governments.

[Justyce]

49. Makes you wonder what Bush

says to all these people who so adamantly oppose him, up until they have to meet with him, then tuck their tails in fear?? (did not see what they are referring to as far as Nagin goes, but in general this seems to keep happening over and over!!)

[Bluebear]

58. folded up like an accordion.....

Oh I like that.

[Bluebear]

60. i love that phrase!

[JanusAscending]

56. What?? Why???

Do you want him to get "bush whacked" ?? While shrub is surrounded by Sec. Service, what would you expect him to say? He needs to get the help for NO ! You can get more with "honey than vinigar"!! Don't you think you're being a little fickle? I totally agree with the origional article, and I detest Dems. knocking Dems. That's what the repukes want. DIVIDE AND CONQUER!! He will have ample time to get back at shrub, when all this is investigated!!

[izzybeans]

46. Unfortunate result of a whisper campaign against him and the

governer no doubt.

Spread blame to the local level where they scrambled like mad to get things done. That's the plan.

[Tomee450]

52. That is indeed the plan and some

here going right along with it.

[Spazito]

74. Nagin did an interview with Stone Phillips on MSNBC,

here is the link to the transcript:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9220142/

[Tatiana]

76. Thank you, Spazito. Let's look at this:

<snip>

PHILLIPS: Federal officials including Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff have said that the only way to have avoided this catastrophe was to have evacuated better, earlier and that that falls to state and local officials. Your response?

NAGIN: I think the spin-meisters are in full effect. I think the nation has realized that this was a big problem and I think people are spinning. And I don’t know who said what. I don’t care if it’s secretary, I don’t care if it’s whomever, state officials, you know, they’re running for cover. I will tell you, we as a nation failed a group of people who needed it the most.

PHILLIPS: Who failed these people?

NAGIN: Everybody. Everybody.

PHILLIPS: Yourself included?

NAGIN: I could have done things better.

PHILLIPS: What would you have done differently?

NAGIN: Screamed louder. But this should never happen again. I don’t give a rat’s hoot - about who has to ask whom to get stuff done when people are suffering.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this exchange here gives us a lot of information as to what went on behind the scenes. Nagin is saying everyone, including himself, could have done things better. He's implying that he was afraid/cautious/reluctant/whatever word you want to choose about asking outside of the chain of command to get "stuff" he needed to alleviate the suffering in NO.

This reinforces the fact that as mayor, his power and resources were very limited and he had to rely upon others to "get stuff done when people <were> suffering." Apparently, he asked and whomever he asked did not respond with what he needed. Some questions I have are:

a) What exactly did he ask for? and
b) Who did he direct his request(s) to?

Again, I ask, how are blaming Nagin for this tragedy?

[progressive_realist]

75. The Nagin-bashing is completely misplaced.

I started watching WWLTV streaming on the internet early Sunday (Aug. 28) morning, almost 24 hours before Katrina made landfall. He was doing everything he possibly could to convince people to evacuate. He was pleading, demanding, warning. . .

After Katrina hit, he was telling everyone who would listen that New Orleans was overwhelmed and needed help. Per the disaster declaration of August 28th, FEMA WAS IN CHARGE OF COORDINATING RESCUE AND RELIEF OPERATIONS IN THE ENTIRE AREA AFFECTED BY KATRINA. That is FEMA's mission and function. Do not listen to anyone who says otherwise.

[Spazito]

78. I watched the streaming constantly as well and saw what you did

a man desparate to save his citizens any way he could.