take back the political language or fix bayonets?

[ulysses]

A thought intersection between kentuck's point about having no qualms about going after Limbaugh and nsma's point about the need to take the language of American political debate back from the wingnuts - are we better off fighting fire with fire or putting our energies into the necessarily longer-term effort to correct the right wing spin put on damn near every word we speak or write as political beings?

Is a middle ground possible? Is it possible to kick them in the nuts right back in the immediate, while quietly working toward the longer term goal?

I'd like to think that the middle ground is possible, but for now, we need to go over the top. As it were. Thoughts?

[theriverburns]

1. I'd prefer kicking them repeatedly in the nuts

You can't reason with hypocrites.

[leftofthedial]

3. okay, so that apporach would work with Rush and Coulter

but what about Laura Ingraham? or Paula Zahn? They don't have nuts.

LOL!

[cprise]

8. What do these people have to do with anything??

Besides the fact they are greedy and abusive? Plenty more where they came from.

Richard Scaife and Rupert Murdoch and their ilk are the ones who must be smoked-out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. fix bayonets

[atreides1]

4. Fix Bayonets...

...And charge!!!

[dbt]

5. Sharpen bayonets and fix them.

There's no time left for a long term solution, is there?

:scared:
dbt

[SWPAdem]

6. No quarter, for now.

We have sat back too long and they think that they can intimidate us....we can fix the rest of the mess after.

[cprise]

7. not without the media, you won't

Only ghettos can recast the terms in the face of a hostile mass media, and you can't stuff most progressives into the ghetto.

There's no way around attacking the media oligarchy, and the only way to do that is to impose strict size and ownership rules (to start) and create a public broadcaster with the BBC's stature. Private mass media will simply not side with the Left in the long run.

[charlie]

9. Both. Follow Terwilliger's lead

He's unflappable, unpinnable, indefatigable, and gets under people's skin like 40 grit sandpaper. With a thousand Terwilligers we'd decimate the right wing.

[KG]

10. oh heck yeah!

there's a lot to be learned from the way Terwilliger get under the skin of RW Duers! :)

[eleny]

11. Who is Terwilliger?

I ask in ignorance!

[Terwilliger]

12. I am Terwilliger

as the nickname implies

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Fuck it. It's hopeless. Go to the beach.

Win or lose, that's what I will be doing after Tuesday. Swearing off politics and if I can swing it ..swearing off law.

I'm sick of making asshole rich and protecting the rights of people who don't fucking care.

They want a society where everyone fends for themselves..then great...a few more people will have one after Tuesday..it will be interesting to see what THEY do with it.

i've been doing this fucking shit for 2 decades. I'm done. The terrorists win.

[ulysses]

21. no you aren't.

Maybe I don't know you well enough to truly say, Teena, but I don't buy it. It's where your passion is.

People don't care? Maybe they've been lied to too many times by the people who are supposed to have their back. Got a Camejo problem? Not to tread on Cali politics from back east, but give people a farking reason to vote Dem and they will.

Maybe I'm wrong. Fair winds and following seas if so, but you kept me in the game once, and I figure you're in it if I am. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Give them a reason??? NO reason seems to be good enough for them

Yeah Davis has done things that MIGHT have not been appropriate and i say MIGHT with a HUGE fucking disclaimer since one has yet to see what would happen with a Green candidate in a MAJOR position of power ( I might add that I witnessed first hand that the PEOPLE party in Mexico PAN got into power and ORGANIZED crimes was supplanted by DISORGANIZED crime)

We live in a state with some of the MOSt liberal labor protections in the nation. Even if Bush PASSED the overtime law it would NOT apply in California where we HAVE protected the 8 hour work day and we are NOT a right to work state.

People here who are injured on the job still get to CHOOSE their own physician after 30 days of control by the carrier. The benefit of that is that one does not have a doctor beholden to the carrier for business shortchanging them on their disability.

These are things to vote for...can a SINGLE GREEN tell me Camejo could get MORE cooperation given the HUGE influence agriculture and law enforecement have in this state even WITHOUT campaing contributions? What do they think Camejo will be able to do? Govern by FIAT?? It's NOT gonna happen

anyway here's just a few reasons that don't seem to be enough:
GREEN ENERGY POLICY

Today, non-hydro renewable energy provides a greater percentage of California’s power supply than it does in any other state in the nation.
Created an $850-million energy conservation program – the largest in state history.
Expressed his support for increasing statewide usage of renewable power from 12 to 17 percent by 2006. Provided more than $350 million in budget funding for the development of renewable power.
Directed the new California Power Authority to make a steady increase in the use of renewable power a priority.
Provided more than $47 million in incentives for the purchase of zero
SMART GROWTH

Closed a loophole allowing developers to subdivide large properties, circumventing environmental and zoning laws.
Signed legislation requiring major new housing developments to identify a source of water prior to construction.
Signed legislation to promote cleanup and redevelopment of urban brownfields.

CHILDREN'S ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH

Unveiled a new plan in 2002 to expand the existing Childhood Lead Poisoning Program.
The Governor provided support for clean-up of hazardous substances at school sites and to evaluate air quality in portable classrooms.
Broadened air quality standards to evaluate health risks to children (in addition to adults).
Signed the Healthy Schools Act to reduce pesticide use in schools.

ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY

Setting the national standard for environmental justice.


Governor Davis established some of the toughest environmental health laws in the nation to regulate toxic mold, Chromium 6, and arsenic.
Signed ground-breaking environmental justice legislation, setting the national standard for long-range planning and environmental guidelines.

COASTAL PROTECTION

An unprecedented commitment to California’s coast.
Governor Davis has provided $107 million to clean up coastal pollution and reduce the number of beach closure days.
Signed legislation strengthening beach and coastal protections.
Filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Interior to block additional offshore oil drilling.
Vetoed the “Rigs-to-Reefs” bill which would have allowed oil companies to leave decommissioned oil platforms in place.

WATER QUALITY

California is the first state in the nation to meet certain federal clean water standards, using an innovative approach addressing both inland and coastal pollution in one program.
Supported and actively campaigned for Proposition 13, which earmarks $1.9 billion for water supply reliability, safe drinking water, flood control, and water conservation projects.
Signed the toughest water quality enforcement law in the nation requiring mandatory penalties for pollution.
Negotiated with U.S. Department of the Interior to address California’s water supply, water quality, and ecosystem restoration needs through the CALFED Bay-Delta program – the nation’s most comprehensive water management system.
$21.3 million in the 2001-02 budget for water quality efforts, including reducing pollution from dairies and storm water.
Governor Davis ordered the phase-out of the hazardous fuel additive MTBE, and petitioned the U.S. EPA to grant a waiver allowing California to bypass requirements for oxygen in gas, on the grounds that it would be counter productive and add unnecessary cost.
Provided $13.5 million in the 2001-02 budget to preserve and restore wetlands around Lake Tahoe.

Overtime Expansion

The Industrial Welfare Commission, whose members are appointed by the governor to reflect the interests of the public, labor and business, extended overtime to hundreds of thousands of workers in California who never before received it. Overtime was extended to the construction, drilling, logging, and mining industries.

Raising the State’s Minimum Wage

California’s minimum wage earners received a pay increase. Governor Davis approved an increase in the state minimum wage from $5.75 to $6.25 effective Jan. 1, 2001. An additional $.50 increase was approved effective Jan. 1, 2002.

Caesar Chavez Holiday

Honoring the founder and long-time leader of the United Farmworkers of America, the governor signed a bill declaring March 31, as Cesar Chavez Day in California. The bill, establishing the first paid state holiday in the nation to recognize Chavez, also requires the development of a curriculum to teach children about non-violence and economic justice, and encourages students to participate in community service activities through AmeriCorps and the California Conservation Corps.

Farm Worker Housing

Mindful of those workers who drive the economic engine of California’s Central Valley, the governor signed legislation that provides $500,000 in tax credits to builders of farm worker housing, another bill that increases family services for farm workers and their families and improves the safety of farm labor vehicles.

Child Care

The governor approved measures that expand the resources necessary to retain qualified child care employees in state-subsidized centers, and that require the state to develop recommendations for playground safety requirements at licensed child care centers.

Labor Law Enforcement

The governor signed legislation strengthening labor law enforcement and increasing penalties for employers who do not pay wages to their workers, and approved a measure that strengthens employment protections for people with disabilities.

Binding Arbitration

Governor Davis approved a binding arbitration process for firefighters and law enforcement employees that preserves the rights of these employees while offering consistent protection of the public.

Workplace Safety

Governor Davis approved increases in funding for Cal/OSHA to improve workplace safety, targeting employers with the highest proportion of fatalities, injuries, illness and workers’ compensation losses.

Young worker safety

The governor approved a statewide young worker health and safety resource network, which will increase the ability of young workers and their communities to identify and address workplace hazards for protecting young workers from on-the-job injuries/illnesses.

I might add that since I was IN PUBLIC HEARINGS in Sacramento for MOST of the labor law issues, I challenge ONE GREEN to demonstrate that a single ONE of those ISSUES was championed by a REPUBLICAN>

No the greens will say..but a contributor of Davis' polluted and he didn't lock them up....I agree that was a mistake however A) the amoutn contributed was OVERBLOWN, b) the perpetrator got heavily fined and there was NO evidence that DAVIS had anything to do with interfering.

Arnold is taking AIM at CAL EPA..because of the TECH and DEFENSE industries, this state deals with approximately 170 toxic chemicals that other states do NOT address. I CHALLENGE A SINGLE GREEN TO PROVE THEY COULD HAVE DONE BETTER with a full HALF of the legislature being Republican for Davis first term.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Oh and one more thing..the thing that cracks me up the most

are people who support Howard FUCKING DEAN and Dennis Kucinich saying Gray Davis is TOO conservative. Read the above and you will see why...Davis increased women's rights and INCREASED the minimum wage and INCREASED union participation in the state while taking on OIL, DEVELOPERS and every other big money interest. Ideologically Davis is CLEARLY to the left of both of them but just doesn't seem to resemble Che Guevara enough for some people's tastes...Nevermind that he is governor for a state with 35 fucking million people and half of them are bigots that think every problem we have is because of mexicans (while they eat Taco Bell)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. kick

[kentuck]

22. nsma....

Today has been a day of introspection...and I think it will be for the best. You are needed.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. No...Terwilliger is needed..people who shoot people who are doing the

fucking work in the foot are needed so that we can have a sense of what a fucking exercise in futility it is.

[kentuck]

14. The battle is doubly tough because we are fighting the media also...

We have to get media reform. All we are asking is give Fairness Doctrine a chance. It is the fairest system yet to achieve equal time for the different parties. We have to restore some sense of fairness to the airwaves - which do belong to the public.

In the interim, we have to be ready to charge with bayonets fixed. We have to realize that we are fighting people like Karl Rove, George W Bush, Dick Cheney, the ghost of Lee Atwater, and many more. They know no compromise.

Look at what compromise has gotten us in the House and Senate? An illegitimate war in Iraq with many deaths. A tax bill that has put our country so far in debt that many people at the bottom will suffer from its consequences. And now they have folded again by voting at least $66 billion more for the troops in Iraq. That averages out to about $half-million per GI. That is what they do when you give them an inch...they take a mile and more.

[Classical_Liberal]

15. No one has defined it

I personally am becoming a little bit desturbed that now that we are seeing light at the tunnel we are just taking revenge rather than changing the policies of this country.

[kentuck]

16. How do we change the policies ??

We haven't won anything yet. We don't yet have the power to change anything??

[Classical_Liberal]

17. Well, I consider the revelations about the leak to be a victory

we should definately be talking about a different direction for our foriegn policy. We could open up some chrony capitalist scandales in Iraq and reopen the Enron scandals. The republicans are voting as a herd anymore.

[kentuck]

18. Sign this petition for media reform...

http://www.mediareform.net/petition.php

[Padraig18]

19. Fix bayonets!

I've heard if you get them in the gut, they writhe in agony for a while before they die. CHARGE! :grr:

[incapsulated]

20. It is HE that has declared war

Fatboy has been at war with the Democrats since day one. It is his job, 24/7 to use the media in a campaign to destroy, slander and attack those that represent us and all that they stand for.

I love the smell of frying fat in the morning. It smells like... victory.

:nuke: