so, my friend in italy is asking me....

[all.of.me]

... is n.o. a violent place? why are there so many rapes, assaults, killings, and so on?

he says the italians are horrified with the violence AND the inaction of our government. he says even the mafia helps out when there is a crisis there.

anyway, how do i describe the violence? frustration? drug withdrawal? hunger? thirst? anger? all of the above?!

[kick-ass-bob]

1. anarchy.

and a fight for survival.

[ohio_liberal]

2. All of the above

Some of the average people in N.O. just reached the breaking point and snapped. They were fighting for their own survival. First you look out for your kids, your family and yourself. Then you can take care of other people. I know this is going to make some people here angry, but in a normal society there are criminals. I'm convinced the worst of the robberies and assaults (against journalists, cameramen, ordinary citizens), looting of TVs and luxury things were done by the ones who were already on the fringe.

edited for clarity

[all.of.me]

3. i don't understand why little girls are being raped and murdered.

and old people bludgeoned. i guess the whole world is wondering the same thing.

[ohio_liberal]

6. Could be the mentality ill doing that

I'm sure they were tossed in the Superdome and at the Convention Center along with the rest of the population. Imagine a schizophrenic without medication being stuck in the horrific atmosphere of the Superdome for days and days.

[all.of.me]

14. i bet you're right. no meds.

my neighbor has a friend from nola who may be on his way here, maybe forever. he is a psychiatrist. he is worried about his patients, because he cannot contact them, and even if he could, his records are in his computer, and there is no electricity. he does not even know where they are! it's a scary scenario.

[pitohui]

17. my mentally ill friends don't rape & kill ppl

i've known several schizophrenic friends to go off their meds or in one case apparently her schizophrenia is resistant to meds

they don't rape & kill anybody

this is not any damn mentally ill, this is gangsters, thugs, whatever you want to call them taking advantage of a situation

[all.of.me]

23. this is what i wonder, too

is it criminals just crammed into close quarters with everyone else, just doing what they do? i'm just asking questions. i guess i'm just trying to wrap my head around what is going on.

[ohio_liberal]

26. OK, well that's good to hear

I personally work at an institution with a schizophrenic, now in segregation, who refuses his meds and attacks pretty much anyone who gets close to him.

I said "could be", not that it was absolutely a schizophrenic attacking people in the superdome. I also mentioned in the post above that the attacks could be career criminals. You have to admit that anyone who attacks a 7 year old girl is mental.

[pitohui]

29. i'm worried all mentally ill will become targets

many of them are themselves among the most vulnerable in new orleans society

yes, you did say "could be," agreed, i'm a little too touchy here, sorry!

[ohio_liberal]

34. It's alright, I understand totally

I shouldn't have gone off on wild speculation. I know the mentally ill are vulnerable for sure. I see it every day. I see gangbangers every day too, with absolutely no understanding of how precious human life is. I don't talk about that too much here because it brings on so much controversy about the why and the how they got the way they are.

Anyhoo, the point of this ramble is to simply say that some folks are just messed up and do bad things. In an extreme situation like N.O. we get to witness the worst of the worst.

[all.of.me]

35. yes, an extreme situation

i guess that is key.

[ohio_liberal]

37. It was extreme beyond our understanding

I hope that someday, somewhere, some organization will do a comprehensive study of what exactly went down in that city. N.O. cops, who've seen and done everything, are walking off the job and committing suicide. That means they've seen and done too much.

[all.of.me]

38. agreed!

it blew my mind to read that relief workers are committing suicide over the trauma. it's almost surreal, isn't it?

i, too, hope that someday we can know exactly what happened. i can not fathom what is happening, but i will say i am grateful for every bite of food i put in my mouth, every shower i can take, every sunrise, every sunset, my clean clothes, my house. i am grateful every second of the day.

[Tyranny_R_US]

10. Because they are black?

I'm sure this is what your friend wants to hear or is thinking. :puke:

[all.of.me]

16. no, he's not like that.

he is one of us, believe me. he just doesn't know what's going on, because they are getting what little news comes from here. that reminds me to check the italian left wing news sites......

[dolo amber]

18. ...

:wtf:

You know this person's friend? 'Cause if not, that seems like a pretty bold judgement on *your* part. :eyes:

[CityZen-X]

15. Where Is The Evidence OF these Acts

has there been any eye witnesses coming forth with accusations? Is it media propaganda? Or could it be the desperation of some individuals at the Dome thinking if they spread this as a rumor, that the authorities would react quicker to there rescue?

[all.of.me]

21. read this

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html#077206

[Gabi Hayes]

20. they learned it from Abu Ghraib, of course

[Crankie Avalon]

4. Describe it as the final product of Reagan/Bushism...

...a privatized, small/zero government, Mad Max-style, roving armed gang "free enterprise zone."

[Nikki Stone 1]

5. Tell him that if FEMA were in Italy, it would keep the mafia out, along w/

firefighters, The American Red Cross, rescue workers from across the nation, etc...

[all.of.me]

8. my friend was actually one to physically help out in 1980 after

the earthquake at irpinia. he can't believe people are not helping. i don't think he knows they are not ALLOWED to help, like you say.

[ohio_liberal]

19. Please try to explain it to anyone in the world who wants to understand

People are always there, waiting to help. It's not just this catastrophy--people come in droves to help any natural disaster. There was massive flooding in my area of Ohio last year at this time. We knew the Ohio River was going to crest well above flood stage. We got our own stuff to high ground, then entire neighborhoods went to the extreme low-lying areas to help move other people. When it was all over, we all went back to help clean up the mess. We DO help each other, without robberies, looting, murders, rape. This is a FEMA screwup on such a colossal way. People snapped when they went days and days without help.

[Nikki Stone 1]

30. Explain that this is a first for us too. We don't know why either

:(

[all.of.me]

36. true

i don't recall ever seeing anything like this with any sort of crisis.

[Nikki Stone 1]

39. Exactly

It's hideous. And unAmerican. We help our own and always have. The fact that FEMA is doing things that are PREVENTING aid from getting in is just unbelievable.

Refer your friend to the FEMA thread with this info:

FEMA won't let Red Cross deliver food
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

FEMA bars morticians from entering New Orleans
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862& ;BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=68561&rfi=6

FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

FEMA fails to utilize Navy ship with 600-bed hospital on board
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509... ;cset=true

FEMA to Chicago: Send just one truck
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale...

FEMA turns away generators
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

FEMA: "First Responders Urged Not To Respond"
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

[all.of.me]

40. great info! thanks.

[daninthemoon]

7. I don't think we really know how much looting happened, vs how

much getting survival stuff. Also, i'm suspicious of claims that rescue / aid operations were halted due to workers being attacked. We probably won't ever get the full truth.

[ohio_liberal]

11. There's been articles about journalists....

being attacked and robbed in the city. Not only by the citizens, but by what they thought were police as well. I'm certain that the majority of the "looters" were people looking for food and medicines. The media isn't showing images of affluent white folk who were in the hotels going out and looting Walgreens.

[demo dutch]

12. Lot of those stories have been hearsay, incl rape in shelters

[pitohui]

22. charmaine neville says it happened to her

i doubt she invented it

she witnessed horrors in the new orleans convention center

have you seen the news report, the freezer there stuffed full of bodies, such as a 7 yr old child w. throat cut, is true

ppl forget the reason we have law, gov't, etc. is that there is a sociopathic 5 percent or so of the population that has no conscience, that will prey on the weaker w.out conscience if not restrained by fear of punishment

this would have happened anywhere you had a disaster of this size w/out a strong police or army presence

the nat'l guard needed to be in louisiana instead of in damn iraq

bottom line


here is a link for you of charmaine neville's story:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/090405/new_soul001.shtml

[all.of.me]

25. i read the account of the australians who went to the superdome.

they said they saw rapes, murders and suicides, and they described the filth of the place. i've read more than one first hand account of this stuff. it's like a little slice of big city life in a small place.

[Dudley_DUright]

9. The big difference is here the mafia (Bush Family Evil Empire)

IS the government.

[pitohui]

13. new orleans was in a murder crisis before katrina

yes, it's a violent place, is the short answer

there was a huge upswing in murders this summer to the point where it was obvious to anyone who cared to know that a major gang war was going on

witnesses were dying like flies, the police chief on july 30 or aug 1 or so announced that other violent crime was down but that murder rates had soared several times the rate of detroit or atlanta!

of course other violent crime rates were down because victims were simply murdered & couldn't report the rapes, robberies, extortions, etc

it was awful, everything from a 7 yr old girl to an old man plumber murdered in his home & set on fire

the national guard should have been in new orleans the minute they knew there was a storm in the gulf

it's been a horrible, horrible, scary summer

[Heewack]

24. Murder capital of the U.S.

You are correct. It has been a very voilent place for decades if not longer.

[all.of.me]

28. thanks. i was not aware of this.

[MojoXN]

27. All of the above and then some.

If this had happened in Italy, or anywhere else, the same would have happened. It's human nature; when civilization breaks down, the worst aspects of some people rear their ugly head. Others are driven to help their fellow man. It has nothing to do with New Orleans, or America in general, it has everything to do with our violence as a species.

MojoXN

[patdem]

31. As mayor Nagin said..there are many drug addicts in New Orleans

and I bet they did not go to shelters, they figured it would either blow over and be drugs as usual, or there would be drug stores to loot if the worst happened..and the worst happened. I am sure there were more drug addicts than mentally ill people doing the shooting and looting. And the fact that law and order was restored to the city (restored being used loosely here) is the failure of the government and FEMA.

[txaslftist]

32. Tell your friend this:

New Orleans was and is a city. Just a city like any other. Did it have a crime problem? Yes, but no worse than many other cities have had in the past.

What happened in New Orleans was this: The violent, the drug-addicted, the poor, the helpless, the vulnerable, the predatory and the decent were all put in a building. The vulnerable had no means to protect themselves. The decent could only protect themselves.

The lights went out. It was hot. There was no reliable news.


The food and water was scarce and fiercely competed for. The mentally ill had no medications. The dead lay beside the living.

Help that was promised did not come.

They waited. People grew angry, hungry, weary and desperate. The toilets did not work and the stench of feces, sweat, urine, dirt and decomposition filled the air and the darkness.

Help that was promised did not come.

The people had been told the building was a sanctuary. Instead it became a prison. But this prison had no guards, no cells to separate the violent from their victims. This prison had no lights, no food, no water, and worst of all, no activity besides waiting.

Idle hands are the devil's workshop, and where else would you expect to see his work other than in this man-made hell? The minutes became hours, the screaming, wailing and crying became the cacaphony of the damned.

This would have happened in Milan, New Orleans, New York or anywhere if these circumstances had been replicated. Our history is replete with stories of monstrous behavior when ships are stranded at sea or when prisons riot or when people are lost beyond the realm of law and order and the situation becomes desperate.

Tell your friend that this need not have happened. Tell your friend that our government failed these people and they acted like people have acted throughout the ages in times of despair and desperation.

[lateo]

33. I lived in this area for a long time.

New Orleans has always been a dangerous place. But I don't believe everything that was reported concerning the violence.